Why Thais don't or won't speak English.

[Tomtomtom69]

For commercial and/or international reasons I see the advantages of Thais being proficient in English as English may be regarded as the language of choice, by some, in this area. However, for someone to suggest that 37,000,000 Thais should learn English so that they may oblige the English speaking visitors (Which, by the very definition of holding a Thai visa makes us) to Thailand would IMHO reeks of racialism. Should you also expect all Thais to learn Chinese, German, French, Russian etc etc to cater for visitors from these non-Thai speaking countries. At the expense of offending some of the people whome may be regarded as arrogant English elite, may the more relevant approach be to ask the question, "Should visitors to, and especially long term residents of, Thailand, in an effort to preserve cultural identity and respect of human rights, be encouraged to learn Thai ?". (OK. Let the persistent racist Thai knockers now let loose).

I agree. Foreign residents and regular travellers to Thailand should be encouraged to learn Thai and have a vested interest in doing so. Having said that, it's up to them to decide if they want to make the effort and their loss if they don't.

Apart from some cursory attempts at speaking basic Thai, most visitors, whether tourists or business people can't necessarily be expected to speak Thai, unless they are from Laos maybe (similar languages).

But then the question becomes: how well do the hosts speak their language (usually English) in order to facilitate communicate with foreign visitors, both tourists and business persons? In these cases, it's in the interests of Thais to ensure they can speak decent English with these visitors. Ordinary, everyday Thais who have little interaction with foreigners don't require these skills and thus speaking only Thai is good enough for them.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[mikemac]

Those who need to learn well enough. Those who don't need to don't. The real comparisons should be made to English people who don't or won't speak other languages. Like Thai.

I am teaching English to one of my staff members, he is keen to learn and actually picks up the language rather easily. We use one of the books that's available locally, I sometimes almost choke at some of the stuff in those books. Like why would any student in lesson one or two need to learn the world XYLOPHONE? X-ray would be slightly more useful, maybe?

But one thing that really threw me in the beginning big time: He would never tell me if he did not understand something I was trying to teach him. Almost had to bang his head in until he finally got the message.

I would have banged his head in.

In the interest of getting the message across.

[seancbk]

I find that most people here try to speak to me in English while I'm trying to speak to them in Thai. Most Thais who I know personally are far more proficient in speaking English than I will ever be in speaking Thai.

Yes that is my experience too. Really depends what circles you move in.

The other thing to bear in mind is that many (most) Thais have almost no interaction with English speaking foreigners, so why would they need to speak English.

[Tomtomtom69]

Xenophobia ruled the LoS with little opposition UNTIL the arrival of ASEAN.

Thailand's economy will suffer more and more until this cultural cringe is overcome.

And it is not a matter of comparing non-Thai speaking visitors or pensioners enjoying the lifestyle. it is far more important for the economic health and education of the country that they do everything possible to bring tier English language skills up to scratch vs. other ASEAN economic competitors.

ASEAN arrived in 1967, unless you mean the ASEAN Economic Community or AEC.

In any case, for all those that think that Thailand is not ready for AEC, you might be right, but most neighboring countries are even further behind. Thailand at least has been putting lots of effort into modernizing infrastructure in border areas - roads have been widened to 4 lanes (or more), signs in English and Thai are not only ubiquitous, but you even have the addition of the language of the neighboring country now too, which includes Lao near the Lao border, Khmer near the Cambodian border and Burmese near the Burmese border. These languages are now seen on road signs, in shopping malls and even petrol stations. You also have road signs indicating the direction and distance to cities in neighboring countries such as "Vientiane 33km" in Nong Khai province, indicating Thailand's seriousness in integrating with AEC.

By contrast, none of these countries have made even the slightest attempt to improve their infrastructure for AEC integration and none of them have signs pointing to towns/cities on the Thai side of the border. Myanmar has made some efforts to improve infrastructure and signage in Kayin State near the Thai border, but that's about it. It's almost as if these countries are giving Thailand a slap in the face, although the real reason is probably simply that they are too poor and have no money and no one has offered to pay for their much needed infrastructure improvements.

Malaysia and Singapore already speak excellent English and have great infrastructure, but as richer countries that's to be expected anyway.

[Suradit69]

No chance to see this program, unfortunately.

But after many years in LoS I simply believe: They just don't give a damn and don't realize the importance, as long as there's rice in the kitchen.

Decades before there was Video, DVD's etc. I volunteered to learn English after school by listening to tapes and records on my own. At the age of 13.

And how much rice did you harvest while learning English?

[MaeJoMTB]

I'm even more surprised by your claim that some students you have met can speak 3 languages. Almost always it's a minority dialect and then central Thai, but rarely anything more (unless you were also including English).

Near Chang Dao ...... lots of Shan, they all speak Chinese as their first language.

Near Mae Rim ...... lots of Mong, many speak Arabic or Chinese ..... village meetings almost always in Chinese.

Central Thailand .... most of the rural farmers speak Lao as their first language.

I'm guessing you don't get out of the big towns and actually try to talk to folk?

My teen daughter, Lao is her first language, Central Thai second, English third.

It will change now that everyone has Television, but everyone speaking the national language is still a way off.

[Tomtomtom69]

I'm even more surprised by your claim that some students you have met can speak 3 languages. Almost always it's a minority dialect and then central Thai, but rarely anything more (unless you were also including English).

Near Chang Dao ...... lots of Shan, they all speak Chinese as their first language.

Near Mae Rim ...... lots of Mong, many speak Arabic or Chinese ..... village meetings almost always in Chinese.

Central Thailand .... most of the rural farmers speak Lao as their first language.

I'm guessing you don't get out of the big towns and actually try to talk to folk?

My teen daughter, Lao is her first language, Central Thai second, English third.

It will change now that everyone has Television, but everyone speaking the national language is still a way off.

Shan speak their own language, which is also called Shan and very similar to northern Thai. Only the Wa and Kokang speak Chinese, not ordinary Shan. I know a Shan guy from the Chinese border town of Namkhan - doesn't speak a word of Chinese but that's not surprising - it's not his language.

I interact a lot with rural folk in all parts of Thailand - yes many speak their own dialects outside of central Thailand. BUT central Thai is the only official language and the only one the central government encourages and allows to be used in schools.

Nearly all Thais speak the central language although fluency levels do drop off in remoter areas where people are less educated, but if you're implying that nationalization, including the imposed central Thai language that must be learned by all Thais hasn't resulted in near universal usage of the language, then I think you're mistaken. If you can speak Thai, you can easily get by in that language in every part of the country, the remotest border areas included. The only people with whom I'd expect to find it a struggle to speak central Thai with are probably Burmese refugees, business travellers, shoppers and some migrant workers along the Thai-Myanmar border in western Tak province (including Mae Sot). But even there, most interactions will be very straightforward. It depends who you are dealing with.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Tomtomtom69

[Saan]

I have a Thai step son now 15, When we first met 5 years ago I wanted to help him with English lessons. Since he was going to a expensive boarding school I thought he could end up with a reasonable grasp of the language with help from me.

His response: I am Thai and I don't need to speak another language. The argument stopped when I said that the king can speak perfect English. But it did not inspire him to learn anything more than hello, goodbye and I give me 300 baht. If we had to have any discussion when his mother was not around it was held in Thai, which goes to show that 10 years of learning English was a complete waste of time. Along with just about everything else he was supposedly taught.

[sawadee1947]

P.S.He was aBarman from Dublin City with a Teflon degree bought a tourist road in BKK

nach milleán mo mhuintir

[lostinisaan]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Your so called "shyness" of her siblings could easily be what many kids are facing who have a mom married/ befriended to a foreigner. Also called discrimination....but please let me explain what I'm on about, please....

You wouldn't believe what so many kids/ teenagers go through at school, when hanging out with friends, etc...Pure discrimination, sometimes coming from many classmates at school.......things like: “Your mother is a whore, who met this fat at a bar" are words they have to live with. .

I've met my wife when our son had just turned four, 13 years ago. Then it turned out that she couldn't have another child and I was okay with it.

It was a sort of funny, she couldn't speak any English, and my Thai was limited to order food, some very simple sentences. But there's something called love and even after more than 13 years of marriage we still love and respect each other.

She'd never worked at a bar, but it seems that most Thais who see a Thai woman with a foreigner believe that they've met in a bar.

I have to admit that I have my own thoughts, I don't want to discuss here about the usual women who bring their new "trophy" to their villages, not knowing that they're number three, or five, however.....

You usually see the "newbies" when they're shopping with the whole family, sometimes it just doesn't fit when a 70 year old's holding hands with a 23 year old and playing with her kids.

Then you see some stuff around the wrist and you know that he'd been "introduced" to the family as the new ATM, with a never ending limit of money coming out of these machines....

When I settled down here, you didn't see foreigners and people were still pointing with fingers at you and said “look a farang". I was the first white guy in my wife's village and they really wanted to show me around like a freaking monkey, after an 18 hour flight.........

Do many foreigners really believe the stories of self-study, or their relatively good English's coming form a government school in rural Isaan?

Here's what my son went through. I should mention that I love him and he loves me. He really respects me and has a healthy common sense and completely different to teenagers his age. But there're some dark moments in his life.

We talk about everything and he's the best at his school in English. His teachers sometimes ask him how to pronounce a word, or what it means, which could also be a reason for other students who can’t speak a full sentence, to be jealous.

But he had a serious fight with a much bigger and two year older guy at school last year. Some guys were teasing him that his mom would be a cheap bar bitch and of course some bad words about me. That was the time when he couldn't get anymore and snapped.

He approached the bigger and older guy, asked him to say that again and when he did, our son developed so much power that he knocked the much bigger guy out. Blackout. The guy got what he deserved, but it went to the director and he wasn't happy about it, until the director heard the story from both guys.

I'd like to answer the given question why Thais don't, or won't speak English to foreigners, using another example. I've met a British bloke who's married to a Thai lady who's got an 18 year old son. I was at his house helping him out with some computer problems, when their son came home, "Waid" me and said Sawasdee khrap and I responded greeting him with a Wai as well.

I was just wondering why he didn't greet his foreign daddy who pays for all and everything. His education at a not cheap college, a brand new and good motorcycle, mobile phone, etc... I couldn’t help myself and asked him why his son didn’t say hello to him????

It turned out that they never speak together, even considering that the boy's English pretty much sucks. He could easily be the number one in his class, speaking finest Queen's English, but he isn't talking to his non biological daddy. Unfortunately, nor does the Brit. I still feel very sorry for this guy, because being a family is something we all should treat with deepest respect, to give love and receive love.

The Brit then told me that Thai kids don't like foreigners, because they have more money, or something similar. I was busy and not in the mood to tell him the whole story our son went through, so I kept my mouth shut and thought better to mind my own business.

A Canadian who's got a seven year old daughter couldn't believe that our son played with her, had her on his shoulders and they had a lot of fun together. The Canadian said something to me that made me happy and might be true.

He said that our son is so different to others his age and he's able to give love to others, because he receives love from us. I thought about it for a while and think it's true. My mom, who died 15 years ago in my arms, killed by medicine to quit smoking, gave me a lot of love.

Psychologically seen understandable. People who don't receive love can't give this feeling to others, because they've never experienced it.

You'll even find that at Thai schools, where some especially Thai teachers are telling the students "bad stories" about foreigners, which is also a reason why plenty of students do not respect foreigners in a classroom and completely misbehave.

This is only my personal opinion and experience, not trying to make something up here.

I apologize for my long post, thus I thought it would be necessary to understand a few more things. Of course is the main reason for such behavior greediness, especially in rural areas.

Wish you a good one. Keep smiling.

Edited July 24, 2015 by lostinisaan

[slipperylobster]

Makes me wonder if the Thais in New York ask each other why Americans don't or won't speak Thai

[nithisa78]

I find that most people here try to speak to me in English while I'm trying to speak to them in Thai. Most Thais who I know personally are far more proficient in speaking English than I will ever be in speaking Thai.

I have Thai friends, born and raised in Thailand. Bangkok , Isan. They speak English better than I do. English is my native tongue. Thai is theirs. Their word selections. Pronunciation, even their spelling. My Thai, forget about it.

[kev78]

English is a more important language then most just because it's classed as the one to learn when speaking to other nationalities.

For instance: Chinese who don't speak Thai and visit will speak English to the Thais. This follows suit with most other nationalities, their first point of call on a language if they are in a situation where the other person does not speak theirs is English.

I'm not getting all "high and mighty" this is just the way it is and has been for decades all over the world.

Although if you do live in a country (and think you will for the foreseeable future) and don't at least try to learn the language then yes, that's just lazy and partly ignorant.

Edited July 24, 2015 by kev78

[nottocus]

It's all about face.

[flyingdoc]

I have certainly found English is spoken less and less in the 30 + years I have been coming to Thailand. The main problem appears to be employing non-native speakers who are often unintelligible themselves!

[Shiver]

I worked in the tourism industry in Europe for 5 years, the worst at this were the French... Being so stubborn as to miss a ferry, due to language, one stated, im french, English language is beneath me..... Never had an issue in Thailand....

As a native English person, I've noticed this a lot in France, more than any other country I've been too. I've only been on holiday there a few times, and (for example), a woman in a snow resort asked me to help tie the shoes of her daughter (actually ski boots). I of course did, then she spoke to me in French in France, and asked me why I come to her country and not learn the language first? I was only there for 5 days <deleted> and she wanted a favour from me, not the other way around. I haven't seen this in any other country. Another time I was on holiday there we went to the same restaurant every day, and the owner spoke only French to us. On the last day he said "if you want another drink then ask now, as we'll be closing soon" (in English). We stopped and looked, and realised that he was able but not willing to speak English the whole time. He 'lost face' big time, as it came out of his mouth before realising that 'the beard had slipped'.

I'm not saying the whole world should learn English, but if they are running a business for foreigners, it seems a bit silly. I have an online business that serves so far 143 countries, and nearly 50% of them are French customers. I do my best with my limited language skills (though admittedly I have to rely on google translate a lot of the time), but I always make an effort to speak in the native language of the customer. Obviously I can't be proficient in that many languages, but in Thailand I find it embarrassing that most EU nationals speak near perfect English, or certainly fluent if not native, often better than people from my home country.

[slipperylobster]

Heck....if we all knew sign language...it would sure fix things.

Like...."Hey You" "can you read between the lines?"

[guzzi850m2]

In my village here in Pattaya my 5 year old son sometimes plays with a Thai doctors son (same age, same school) and he pushes very hard to learn his 2 kids to speak very good English.

A Phillipa English teacher comes to their house twice a week for 2 hours lessons for their kids.

No doubt that high educated Thais understand the importance of learning the language.

Just look at Singapore, everyone under 30 speaks very good English and I think English is now the main language spoken in schools.

ASEAN also promote English where Singapore, Malaysia and perhaps the Philippines are well prepared for that.

But out in the sticks here in Thailand, it will likely take many years before they catch up and will be left behind.

[bil2054]

For commercial and/or international reasons I see the advantages of Thais being proficient in English as English may be regarded as the language of choice, by some, in this area. However, for someone to suggest that 37,000,000 Thais should learn English so that they may oblige the English speaking visitors (Which, by the very definition of holding a Thai visa makes us) to Thailand would IMHO reeks of racialism. Should you also expect all Thais to learn Chinese, German, French, Russian etc etc to cater for visitors from these non-Thai speaking countries. At the expense of offending some of the people whome may be regarded as arrogant English elite, may the more relevant approach be to ask the question, "Should visitors to, and especially long term residents of, Thailand, in an effort to preserve cultural identity and respect of human rights, be encouraged to learn Thai ?". (OK. Let the persistent racist Thai knockers now let loose).

I largely agree.... in fact the OP's title for this thread was a bit off putting for me. Why should Thai people learn English if they will not be involved in international business? English is the de facto international language of trade, and all airline pilots must know it, but not all people are in that situation. It would make sense for taxi drivers in Bkk to know a little, but I found rather more than fewer do know enough to get the job done.

Another poster mentioned a problem I am having, to whit as an older farang with some hearing loss I have trouble differentiating the tonalities. So far most Thai people I have met appreciate my bumbling efforts, and have been very patient with "No, no, say like this....", with the ubiquitous Thai smile.

I love it, and intend to do my best to learn as well as a cranky old Yank can.

[fasteddie]

Those who need to learn well enough. Those who don't need to don't. The real comparisons should be made to English people who don't or won't speak other languages. Like Thai.

"The real comparisons should be made to English people who don't or won't speak other languages. Like Thai"

Those who need to learn well enough. Those who don't need to don't.

[huawei]

When I first started seeing my gf 5 years ago, we had to rely on my (primitive) Thai as much as her English to communicate. But since then she has soared far ahead of me in her second language proficiency (my Thai has barely moved). I still have to speak Thai to her siblings, though my gf swears they know more English than I ever hear. Part of it is 'shyness' in the presence of a fluent English speaker. Part of it is a lack of practice. And part of it is the quality of English education in the schools.

As a humorous aside, a few months back Noy and I bumped into her former English teacher in a Tesco Lotus. The woman was clearly bowled over by the fact that Noy was with a farang, but when she heard Noy speaking English (Noy not having been the studious type), she looked like she'd fall over. In fact, Noy's English was superior to this teacher's. Noy kept a cute 'victory' smile on her face for the rest of the day.

Why would anyone be bowled over to see someone with a farang...not exactly social climbing..not exactly unique!

[Mojomor]

My take on all of this, is that the super nationalistic education tells them that every other country is inferior.

Therefore the kids do not regard it as patriotic to learn English. The working language of Asean is English, but when tests are conducted Thai kids end up fairly low on ability to speak English. One reaps what one sows. Another variation of shooting yourself in the foot.

[TheKnave]

Learning a language requires practice, and making mistakes, followed by by correcting them.

To Thais, face is everything. Making mistakes is loss of face, and having them corrected is more loss of face.

Unbearably uncomfortable to most, at least in my experience.

[bobthomas]

For 99% of the country English is an unimportant language and always will be.

They learn Thai language as babies and it is their first language. The are introduced to English in the schools where the mostly Thai teachers who are teaching it to them do a crap job and it is not really a point of emphasis. Little or nothing is reinforced throughout their daily lives that would make them use or retain whatever little might have been learned.

Actually, they don't,

Most Thais don't learn central Thai until they attend high school.

I've been in high schools where the 1st year students speak three different languages, and don't understand central Thai at all.

If you watch Thai Tv, often they have central Thai subtitles as the people in the story aren't speaking central Thai.

Central Thai is my Thai wife's third language, English her fifth.

Central Thai is not a langauge- it is a dialect.

[Shiver]

Learning a language requires practice, and making mistakes, followed by by correcting them.

To Thais, face is everything. Making mistakes is loss of face, and having them corrected is more loss of face.

Unbearably uncomfortable to most, at least in my experience.

I really like it when Thais help me correct my language, it is genuinely useful. I have noticed however the reverse isn't appreciated.

[LukKrueng]

This is Thailand. Official language is Thai. Since there are many different dialects and regional languages, most Thais speak 2 languages since birth and English or any other foreign language is the 3rd language. Most Thai people have no use for English in their daily lives, so why must they speak it? Not many Germans / French people (in Germany / France that is...) speak English. Driving a car in Germany i got lost many times as i couldn't get directions from anyone, and in France I missed a train as I couldn't find anyone to answer me in English where was the correct platform...

[SantiSuk]

I've lost count of the number of times I have heard bar-stool johhnies, who can't be bothered to learn to speak any Thai and who live in Thailand, complain about the quality of English of their Thai other halves or bar staff or thais in general. They don't even seem to recognise their self-reflected stupidity.

[DavisH]

1) Most are shy and worried about not being understood, and not understanding the response. They are often the same reasons why learning Thai can be difficult for some. Say a few words in Thai to a Thai and they think you are proficient and start babbling on.

2) They simply do not get enough exposure and put into situations where english is required. It is just seen as another school subject. But it's the same with most subjects - they just learn it to pass a test then forget it afterwards.

3) There are issues with losing face when having to use english, especially when having to speak in front of peers.

4) English is only taught 1-2 periods a week in many regular schools, by Thai teachers. It simply is not enough. In contrast, you can have a conversation with many grade ones who have learned in an EP in kindergarten for three years. They speak better than most university students.

5) They don't see any real need to learn english. When will the average rice farmer or labourer need english? In contrast to the tourist industry/academia/business/government agencies use english more frequently. However, the majority of the population have no use for learning english.

[Keesters]

Of all the kids that live near me close to the top in English language would be a Russian kid. Next would be English/Thai and American/Thai kids. Bottom of the class would be the Thai kids. All go to the same school. Top of the class would be a Swedish/Thai kid who at only 4 does not yet attend school and translates everything for the much older Thai kids. Must be in the genes.

[mikemac]

I've lost count of the number of times I have heard bar-stool johhnies, who can't be bothered to learn to speak any Thai and who live in Thailand, complain about the quality of English of their Thai other halves or bar staff or thais in general. They don't even seem to recognise their self-reflected stupidity.

I met an English guy in a bar in BKK who had lived in Thailand for more than 20 years. He said he only knew 3 or 4 words in Thai, had no interest in learning the lingo as he got by without it.

I was the opposite, spent my first year in Thailand trying to learn Thai from books and websites and got nowhere, started going to AUA in Chiang Rai and once I started I could not stop.

It is so much better living in Thailand when you can speak the local language, even if you are not fluent. I am not good at by any means, but can hold a conversation to a certain extent.