Money, commuting time and poor social skills taking a heavy toll on Thai families

[Lite Beer]

Money, commuting time and poor social skills taking a heavy toll on Thai families
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- MANY THAI families no longer have time for each other nor do they have warm relationships, due to financial struggle and overly long journey time to and from work.

Many suffer from debt and reportedly lack goals to boost family ties and stability.

Smartphone chat links like "Line" have become a way to connect family members and keep them together.

These are some of the grim findings of a recently revealed "Thai Urbanised Family 2014" research.

The study was organised by the Rakluke Learning Group (RLG), the Thai Health Promotion Foundation and the Family Studies Association. It was conducted through face-to-face interviews with 2,040 breadwinners living in 11 cities and the focus group method to cover in-depth study of interesting points raised.

The goal of the research was to get a clear image of lifestyle, attitude and behaviour of Thai families in city areas and develop a body of knowledge and raise public awareness of the issue.

The study found economic struggle remained a major factor - affecting Thai families' wellbeing, relationships, financial status and care of elderly members, RLG research centre head Supaporn Korwanichakul said.

Most people didn't understand family roles or how to be a strong family; a third of respondents |said they were unsure if they had taken proper care of their families, she said.

This was because many lacked social links to learn from good models and an education system - while city folks' isolated lifestyle meant a lack of community interaction.

Twenty per cent didn't have a shared family goal, mainly due to a lack of time (30 per cent) because they were busy making a living, Supaporn said.

Sixty per cent of respondents with shared family goals were focused on financial matters - not other matters such as raising children and providing education, family saving, or preparing for old age, the study said.

Some 30 per cent of respondents misunderstood that if they didn't have children or the kids had already grown up, the families no longer needed to set goals.

City dwellers' family ties were shaky, the study said. The problematic situations cited were: a lack of conversation due to lack of trust (40 per cent); coercion (60 per cent); family members not rational when solving a problem (33 per cent); verbal, mental abuse or abandonment (34 per cent); physical abuse (11 per cent).

Such problematic ties also led to family members' lack of desire to set shared family goals or to share common activities. Five per cent of respondents said their families had absolutely no common activity - half of this group cited the reason as "no time."

However, the most cited common activity among families was having a meal together (82 per cent), followed by watching a movie together (59 per cent) and spending a special occasion or holiday (52 per cent), the study said. Although family life was overwhelmingly linked to economic struggle, two thirds of the families said they had "moderate" to "low" knowledge about financial management due to lack of time to learn and the notion that money matters were complex.

Thirty per cent of city families had no savings, and 65 per cent had debts.

The researchers recommended; the promotion of family education, active ageing, and financial literacy; a cut in journey time by improving quality of near-home schools and improving public transport for accessibility and an appropriate fare; and setting up public spaces and family centres.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Money-commuting-time-and-poor-social-skills-taking-30265185.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-25

[trogers]

"Although family life was overwhelmingly linked to economic struggle, two thirds of the families said they had "moderate" to "low" knowledge about financial management due to lack of time to learn and the notion that money matters were complex."

A consequence of this country's low average IQ and poor education system.

[CaptHaddock]

For further evidence of low education level, take a look at those incoherent graphs. Pie charts must always add up to 100% because they explain the composition of something. So, here we have pie charts that add up to more than 100%. Or the chart on the left that mixes allocation of commuting time with percent of income. What does "50% has some savings, but are unsure if it is sufficient" mean? Is the other 50% sure that they have sufficient savings or do they have none?

Complete gibberish.

[HeijoshinCool]

For further evidence of low education level, take a look at those incoherent graphs. Pie charts must always add up to 100% because they explain the composition of something. So, here we have pie charts that add up to more than 100%. Or the chart on the left that mixes allocation of commuting time with percent of income. What does "50% has some savings, but are unsure if it is sufficient" mean? Is the other 50% sure that they have sufficient savings or do they have none?

Complete gibberish.

.

Rounding errors?

[ratcatcher]

It's all the fault of the hi-so elites. In another age a politician promised to make everybody amply rich. They could use him now.

[zakk9]

It's all the fault of the hi-so elites. In another age a politician promised to make everybody amply rich. They could use him now.

Nah.... he succeeded quite well himself. The other just didn't work hard enough. Isn't that what capitalists normally say?

[Seastallion]

For further evidence of low education level, take a look at those incoherent graphs. Pie charts must always add up to 100% because they explain the composition of something. So, here we have pie charts that add up to more than 100%. Or the chart on the left that mixes allocation of commuting time with percent of income. What does "50% has some savings, but are unsure if it is sufficient" mean? Is the other 50% sure that they have sufficient savings or do they have none?

Complete gibberish.

It's an info-graphic, not a pie chart per se.

It's all quite understandable when viewed thus.

[jaywalker]

For further evidence of low education level, take a look at those incoherent graphs. Pie charts must always add up to 100% because they explain the composition of something. So, here we have pie charts that add up to more than 100%. Or the chart on the left that mixes allocation of commuting time with percent of income. What does "50% has some savings, but are unsure if it is sufficient" mean? Is the other 50% sure that they have sufficient savings or do they have none?

Complete gibberish.

.

Rounding errors?

They added in VAT maybe?

[selftaopath]

I believe there are many reasons for this. Thai society must .... well ought to ... change if it wants to be competitive with the developing/developed world. My firm belief is the oligarchy only wants the Thai population as a common labor work force... not to be educated or even remotely on a near equal footing with hi-so families.

I see village dynamics are a bit different. We've offered work... at a higher than average ... day rate to able bodied men in the village. Most times we were told the work was too hard/dirty/hot/high etc. Some agreed to work but - of course - NEVER returned. It's like living in a retirement community filled with many able bodied men/women.

[KarenBravo]

Thais want all the "stuff" like a smartphone, a car, branded goods etc, but aren't willing to wait for it, so, they borrow money.

As long as they can pay the interest every month, they think that they can afford the debt. Repaying the principal never actually enters their head.

[trogers]

I believe there are many reasons for this. Thai society must .... well ought to ... change if it wants to be competitive with the developing/developed world. My firm belief is the oligarchy only wants the Thai population as a common labor work force... not to be educated or even remotely on a near equal footing with hi-so families.

I see village dynamics are a bit different. We've offered work... at a higher than average ... day rate to able bodied men in the village. Most times we were told the work was too hard/dirty/hot/high etc. Some agreed to work but - of course - NEVER returned. It's like living in a retirement community filled with many able bodied men/women.

Why work when we get freebies? Why think when we can just relax in our hammocks?

[MZurf]

When the concept of "tomorrow/the future" is unknown it's kind of hard to plan for it.

[sammygood]

live by your means, not a thai concept, is it ?

something to do with education ? or lack of ?

[CaptHaddock]

When the concept of "tomorrow/the future" is unknown it's kind of hard to plan for it.

This is a statement of the narrowness of your point of view. It's an old saw of (Western) sociology that the degree to which an individiual plans for the future depends on his relative standing in society. Even in the US, the working class lives paycheck to paycheck and saves nothing. A recent survey found that 50% of US households could not muster $2000 for an emergency without borrowing. The middle class and the upper middle class plan for the much longer horizon of retirement, for which decades of preparation are required. The upper class spends a lot of time and money in estate-planning using such arcane instruments as Generation-Skipping Trusts, which divide the inheritance between the children and the grandchildren for the purpose of avoiding the additional inheritance tax bite if it all goes to the children and only on their death to the grandchildren. One of the very meanings of wealth is the relative ability to control the future.

So, from the point of view of a wealthy patriarch with an elaborate estate plan that is the product of collaboration between lawyers and financial managers your pathetic retirement would look like severe dereliction. Would that seem reasonable? Your view of the Thais is similarly unreasonable. Thailand is a country full of poor and desperate people who are one problem away from bankruptcy. They are trying to survive. Your failure to grasp that says more about you than them.

Edited July 25, 2015 by CaptHaddock

[MZurf]

When the concept of "tomorrow/the future" is unknown it's kind of hard to plan for it.

This is a statement of the narrowness of your point of view. It's an old saw of (Western) sociology that the degree to which an individiual plans for the future depends on his relative standing in society. Even in the US, the working class lives paycheck to paycheck and saves nothing. A recent survey found that 50% of US households could not muster $2000 for an emergency without borrowing. The middle class and the upper middle class plan for the much longer horizon of retirement, for which decades of preparation are required. The upper class spends a lot of time and money in estate-planning using such arcane instruments as Generation-Skipping Trusts, which divide the inheritance between the children and the grandchildren for the purpose of avoiding the additional inheritance tax bite if it all goes to the children and only on their death to the grandchildren. One of the very meanings of wealth is the relative ability to control the future.

So, from the point of view of a wealthy patriarch with an elaborate estate plan that is the product of collaboration between lawyers and financial managers your pathetic retirement would look like severe dereliction. Would that seem reasonable? Your view of the Thais is similarly unreasonable. Thailand is a country full of poor and desperate people who are one problem away from bankruptcy. They are trying to survive. Your failure to grasp that says more about you than them.

My post was never meant as criticism of Thais - merely an observation. If you fail to grasp that a lack of understanding that tomorrow eventually will come often can and do lead to financial problems for many locals then you don't know LOS very well.

[CaptHaddock]

When the concept of "tomorrow/the future" is unknown it's kind of hard to plan for it.

This is a statement of the narrowness of your point of view. It's an old saw of (Western) sociology that the degree to which an individiual plans for the future depends on his relative standing in society. Even in the US, the working class lives paycheck to paycheck and saves nothing. A recent survey found that 50% of US households could not muster $2000 for an emergency without borrowing. The middle class and the upper middle class plan for the much longer horizon of retirement, for which decades of preparation are required. The upper class spends a lot of time and money in estate-planning using such arcane instruments as Generation-Skipping Trusts, which divide the inheritance between the children and the grandchildren for the purpose of avoiding the additional inheritance tax bite if it all goes to the children and only on their death to the grandchildren. One of the very meanings of wealth is the relative ability to control the future.

So, from the point of view of a wealthy patriarch with an elaborate estate plan that is the product of collaboration between lawyers and financial managers your pathetic retirement would look like severe dereliction. Would that seem reasonable? Your view of the Thais is similarly unreasonable. Thailand is a country full of poor and desperate people who are one problem away from bankruptcy. They are trying to survive. Your failure to grasp that says more about you than them.

My post was never meant as criticism of Thais - merely an observation. If you fail to grasp that a lack of understanding that tomorrow eventually will come often can and do lead to financial problems for many locals then you don't know LOS very well.

Excuse me for writing over your head. I mistook you for someone else.

[chainarong]

Thailand has been slowly churning towards personal stagnation for a long time, the education system is in part the problem and we need it now the other part , Thai's want everything the west has, the problem is that Thailand isn't the west, but you can't deny them the trimmings of the west , so you have a slow drift towards a country that has become intolerant towards each other, locked to world economic situations, over loaded in personal dept , with a family unit that has little or no income , this causes more problems than Prayut - O section 44, mind the future looks bleak for quite a few in the West, but even more so in places like Thailand and despite good intentions it will continue while the present mindset of the Thai establishment continues on its ruling way, the Thai people need better leadership, direction and governance , this will not happen under the present system

[MZurf]

When the concept of "tomorrow/the future" is unknown it's kind of hard to plan for it.

This is a statement of the narrowness of your point of view. It's an old saw of (Western) sociology that the degree to which an individiual plans for the future depends on his relative standing in society. Even in the US, the working class lives paycheck to paycheck and saves nothing. A recent survey found that 50% of US households could not muster $2000 for an emergency without borrowing. The middle class and the upper middle class plan for the much longer horizon of retirement, for which decades of preparation are required. The upper class spends a lot of time and money in estate-planning using such arcane instruments as Generation-Skipping Trusts, which divide the inheritance between the children and the grandchildren for the purpose of avoiding the additional inheritance tax bite if it all goes to the children and only on their death to the grandchildren. One of the very meanings of wealth is the relative ability to control the future.

So, from the point of view of a wealthy patriarch with an elaborate estate plan that is the product of collaboration between lawyers and financial managers your pathetic retirement would look like severe dereliction. Would that seem reasonable? Your view of the Thais is similarly unreasonable. Thailand is a country full of poor and desperate people who are one problem away from bankruptcy. They are trying to survive. Your failure to grasp that says more about you than them.

My post was never meant as criticism of Thais - merely an observation. If you fail to grasp that a lack of understanding that tomorrow eventually will come often can and do lead to financial problems for many locals then you don't know LOS very well.

Excuse me for writing over your head. I mistook you for someone else.

You're excused. Don't worry - you're not alone. There are tons of posters on TV that have barely set foot in the country but write as they have been here forever.

[phrisco17]

Thailand has been slowly churning towards personal stagnation for a long time, the education system is in part the problem and we need it now the other part , Thai's want everything the west has, the problem is that Thailand isn't the west, but you can't deny them the trimmings of the west , so you have a slow drift towards a country that has become intolerant towards each other, locked to world economic situations, over loaded in personal dept , with a family unit that has little or no income , this causes more problems than Prayut - O section 44, mind the future looks bleak for quite a few in the West, but even more so in places like Thailand and despite good intentions it will continue while the present mindset of the Thai establishment continues on its ruling way, the Thai people need better leadership, direction and governance , this will not happen under the present system

You failed to mention that most Thai families are also distended and fragmented!

[Scott]

A post containing Thai language has been removed. In this section of the forum only English is permitted.

[dageurreotype]

"Although family life was overwhelmingly linked to economic struggle, two thirds of the families said they had "moderate" to "low" knowledge about financial management due to lack of time to learn and the notion that money matters were complex."

A consequence of this country's low average IQ and poor education system.

Yes, we are aware of the causes, how about commenting on the really rather good suggested solutions

[ginjag]

How does Thailand break this habit--Mostly in rural areas kids are born --they have to be fed, housed, schooled clothed up to leaving school and working.

Now the fun starts where most of these kids are made to work and send money back to family to pay back for the years of upbringing, a mega % are working bars--go go's, industrial estates so every pay date mother is at the local post office to get the money sent, because it's a Thai expected thing to do.

So the crazy circle begins again, kids do not have money left to save to get married if and when they do eventually they have kids and the cycle starts again.

At some point this has to stop. parents should have sustainable work without relying on the kids so as not to expect monthly money.

[NCC1701A]

two days ago I showed my 40 year old Thai girlfriend how I keep track of every baht spent.

I said this is how much money there is each month, and where it goes. I cannot spend more that X amount each month. "impossible."

I subtracted fixed costs like rent and utilities and then divided the difference by 30 days.

"this is how much baht per day we can spend for everything, if we spend more then the next day we have to spend less."

she had never seen a budget before or one that projected FORWARD for planing purposes.

or ever thought about how much money she needs per month or year to live.

so i showed her how much she needs over the next twenty years.

I think maybe it was a mistake because today she looks a little sad.

one good thing is I am always telling her she does not need all the crap that the western style advertising is brainwashing Thais into thinking they need.

[Ghostnigel]

How does Thailand break this habit--Mostly in rural areas kids are born --they have to be fed, housed, schooled clothed up to leaving school and working.

Now the fun starts where most of these kids are made to work and send money back to family to pay back for the years of upbringing, a mega % are working bars--go go's, industrial estates so every pay date mother is at the local post office to get the money sent, because it's a Thai expected thing to do.

So the crazy circle begins again, kids do not have money left to save to get married if and when they do eventually they have kids and the cycle starts again.

At some point this has to stop. parents should have sustainable work without relying on the kids so as not to expect monthly money.

Or order up a farang ATM...That'll work

[bamnutsak]

Ah, returning happiness to the people.

Time to repeat the twelve core values, play some stirring nationalistic music, pen some awe-inspiring TV dramas.

What could go wrong.

[Ghostnigel]

Konying? Where are you?

Is this a Thai bashing thread? I said similar a few weeks ago, and you called me a Thai basher....are all these Thai bashers too?.

No, they are just telling it how it is, just like i did, I think its just criticism my friend, ....now shake hands, and we can be best mates again.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Ghostnigel

[elgordo38]

It's all the fault of the hi-so elites. In another age a politician promised to make everybody amply rich. They could use him now.

Forget another age these type of politicians that promise to make everybody amply rich are alive and well in today's society all over the planet. Its what they spout along with other BS to get elected. Getting elected come hell or high water is all that matters. They are insulated from everything once they become politicians. A driver a big car a generous allowance and a big paycheck and pension at the end of their short service is all that matters. No wonder they need body guards. Only the good guys like JFK get knocked off. They made an example of him to get others that will follow to get with the money merchants program. And you think the president is in charge? Hardly. He is only a mediator between rich and poor. Throw the poor a few crumbs to keep them calm while handing the rich the reins of power over well everything. Keys to the Kingdom.

Edited July 25, 2015 by elgordo38

[Laughing Gravy]

Whilst I agree with the article, except the figures. It is happening all over the world. Even in my home nation, the UK. Although Thailand is behind in many ways, I still feel they have a much better family/social interaction, although they are catching up with health problems, like the West. They are rapidly catching up with social issues and the negative use of social media etc.

The Mai Bpen Rai attitude is a ' killer' in my opinion, As the modern banking world and credit does not acknowledge this principle, The current state of peope are in a transition period, understanding it.

What Annoyes me is the blatant deire for social recognition and the social climber attitude. Luckily I was taught the right values,that ment never be complacent, always strive to improve and in Thai terms, never accept the sabai sabai attitude. I thank my Parents and Granparents for instilling that in me, to constantly strive to improve through hard work. i hope and wish that the majourity of Thais would take these wise words too.

[micmichd]

Something that always impressed me in Thailand is their faible for improvisation. Thais are absolutely good in handling unexpected situations, and this is not only charming but might be a key competence in the future.

My experiences come from a comparison of Thai Airways with Deutsche Lufthansa. Where in Germany staff was ccompletely helpless without explicit orders, Thai Airways staff just had quick meetings and then managed the situations by improvisation.

Edited July 25, 2015 by micmichd

[tbthailand]

For further evidence of low education level, take a look at those incoherent graphs. Pie charts must always add up to 100% because they explain the composition of something. So, here we have pie charts that add up to more than 100%. Or the chart on the left that mixes allocation of commuting time with percent of income. What does "50% has some savings, but are unsure if it is sufficient" mean? Is the other 50% sure that they have sufficient savings or do they have none?

Complete gibberish.

it's not a pie chart, it is an infographic that happens to have round graphics...

really, woulda thought you'd have noticed by the time you finished typing and then hit "cancel" on your post....