Bangkok University - Life Of Thai Students

[Kf6vci]

I've been stayign with 2 students. 1st and 6th years. Both go only on 2 days to the university and hardly ever do any studying. One of them took english but he never spoke one sentence... Not having a degree to boast about and being bone idle myself, I'm not trying to badmouth them, but I'm honestly perplexed how this system is working. *** Last night, I heard of someone who majored in English but cannot or won't speak English dealign with farang exchange students professionally. Here, the solution has been to stay at home and not to go to work. *** Are these extreme and odd cases, or is this system far laxer than European ones? Thanks!

[jdinasia]

I am sorry .... what is your real question/complaint?

[steakpudding]

That's normal.. only about 10% of graduates in English can speak English (just) and 5% or less of them can speak English fluently.

Students in Thailand aren't taught to think but to remember what they read in books which they forget the minute they came out of the exam room.

Assignments? Very easy especially for students in English programme. They copy and paste articles from internet or books, mostly without editing any words. You get points easily by doing more of the review (80% of the whole work) than the empirical bits.

[Kf6vci]

That's normal.. only about 10% of graduates in English can speak English (just) and 5% or less of them can speak English fluently.

Students in Thailand aren't taught to think but to remember what they read in books which they forget the minute they came out of the exam room.

Assignments? Very easy especially for students in English programme. They copy and paste articles from internet or books, mostly without editing any words. You get points easily by doing more of the review (80% of the whole work) than the empirical bits.

Thanks - this was new to me. It wasn't meant as a complaint, rather as an "observation". So this means when one hires a graduate in English (as major), this doesn't mean that person can actually converse etc.

This is quite astonishing.

[Tarragona]

Students in Thailand aren't taught to think but to remember what they read in books which they forget the minute they came out of the exam room.

They have started trying to teach them to think by basically not trying to remember anything from books at all. Many westerners hold very simplistic views about rote learning, memorization etc. without examining the integrated role that it does play in western education. Unfortunately, the Thai system is currently throwing the baby out with the bath water. Interesting to note that the British government has recently announced a serious shake-up of the education system and a return to exam-based assessment. It took them 10 years to realize that project-based work wasn't producing as expected. The Thai university system is only a couple of years down this road so the current generation of students will suffer the consequences.

The reason the students only go in two days a week is because they organize their schedules so that they have to travel in to the university as little as possible - even if that means studying from early morning to late afternoon without any breaks. Their grades are probably terrible.

[midas]

Kf6vci I just want to say I could understand your question very clearly.

Don't worry jdinasia has a strange way of looking at things

[webbew]

LOL!! I'm considering Bangkok U. for grad school. I'd like to actually learn something while I'm there though!

[jdinasia]

LOL!! I'm considering Bangkok U. for grad school. I'd like to actually learn something while I'm there though!

The International program <and the IT/mass communications programs> is OK. My partner graduated from the IT program at BU .... is fluent in English ... and has done quite well. You'll learn as much as you choose to.

[Sing_Sling]

LOL!! I'm considering Bangkok U. for grad school. I'd like to actually learn something while I'm there though!

The International program <and the IT/mass communications programs> is OK. My partner graduated from the IT program at BU .... is fluent in English ... and has done quite well. You'll learn as much as you choose to.

I think this is the crux of the matter . . . many of the 'kids' at University in Thailand, especially the more prestigious ones, come from above average income families and are spoiled beyond belief, which translates into their effort at studying - having already been carried in their private schools, the same happens at University.

You'll learn as much as you choose to

[jdinasia]

LOL!! I'm considering Bangkok U. for grad school. I'd like to actually learn something while I'm there though!

The International program <and the IT/mass communications programs> is OK. My partner graduated from the IT program at BU .... is fluent in English ... and has done quite well. You'll learn as much as you choose to.

I think this is the crux of the matter . . . many of the 'kids' at University in Thailand, especially the more prestigious ones, come from above average income families and are spoiled beyond belief, which translates into their effort at studying - having already been carried in their private schools, the same happens at University.

You'll learn as much as you choose to

Absolutely ...... some people are lazy ... some are not. Doesn't really matter about social class in Thailand.It is just a bit more sad when you see people from priviledged backgrounds that didn't take advantage of it.

[Briggsy]

Bangkok University is a private university.

Like most private universities, it is loath to fail the students provided they do not openly attack the institution or miss the exams.

I did meet one student there who had to attend summer school, she was that clueless.

In summary, you pay the fees, the degree is yours.

There have been many threads on the amazingly low ability/knowledge of graduates in Thailand. The OP has observed first hand one of the reasons why.

[Ijustwannateach]

A solicitation has been removed.

[bendix]

I think it's a bit unfair of the OP to slate these english graduates for not speaking english. Half the english-speaking world themselves struggle to put a decent sentence together in their native tongue, either orally or on paper. In fact, the OP himself is hardly Ernest Hemingway himself.

[srisatch]

Yes, I know we have been round this before in different ways...BUT

I still have yet to hear a decent explanation of the following:

There are many Thai people-students, graduates, whatever..who can READ English and WRITE it, too

but VERY FEW who can SPEAK English. The exception would seem to be those, again very few, who have been able to study abroad..

BUT

There are many, many Chinese people who, without going abroad, can speak, let alone write and read English..Philippinos also

In Europe there seem to be peoples who have no problem with this language..eg Dutch people, while the French and others struggle.

I know nothing of linguistics...but there must be some expanation of how mother tongues enable or disable the acquisition of second languages. Of course there are plenty of 'Thai' people who speak all of Thai, Lao, Teochew, Khmen, Kammuang ..and more...

[wintermute]

The school systems here are abysmal. Rote memorization and recitation isn't the problem here..a lot of asian nations use that system but yet they do very well (Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, etc..). The problem with Thai schools is that there are no standards or ethics whatsoever. You can skirt by with the poorest work ethic and you can cheat, copy, and slack your way through to a degree without learning anything.

I know a couple Thai electrical engineering students who go to a large private university here and they don't do anything. Their daily routine consists of class (when they feel like going), clubbing, and drinking. They don't study because they say it's not necessary and the instructors usually pass them with the minimum required to graduate. The tests are designed to pass the maximum number of students. Engineering is a highly technical and involved field which requires LOTS of studying and project work. My cousin is a mechanical engineer and graduated from a state university in the U.S. he literally didn't much time to do anything except study.

There are no standards enforced in Thailand because if Thai students started failing en masse there would be a large "loss of face" for the university and for the nation. Part of this is due in part to the inherent lack of work ethic in Thai culture. However, a lot of it is due to the fact that your existing social position is what gets you jobs here. It's not a meritocracy at all in Thai organizations..it's all who you know or who your family knows rather than what you are actually competent at. This is the primary reason why this country has problems with corruption and everything is done to a substandard level.

There was a study done awhile back that showed that Thailand ranked nearly at the very bottom in TOEFL scores I think Cambodia and Laos had more people score higher than Thais. That should tell you something right there..

Edited February 17, 2007 by wintermute

[phibunmike]

I think it's a bit unfair of the OP to slate these english graduates for not speaking english. Half the english-speaking world themselves struggle to put a decent sentence together in their native tongue, either orally or on paper. In fact, the OP himself is hardly Ernest Hemingway himself.

I think an English graduate ought to be able to speak English, not necessarily as well as a native, but they should surely have some grasp of the language. I have heard similar tales, where English undergrads in a Thai university were unable to communicate with their (western) lecturer. Surely to be an English undergrad, one must have already got the equivalent of A-level English ? English kids with A-level French might not be Victor Hugos, but they can hold a passable conversation.

Cheers,

Mike

[Maizefarmer]

10 Thai's apply for a job: 9 went to Uni in Thailand and one went to Uni in the UK or the USA ..... and you've all already worked out the rest of this statement: chances are overwhelmingly in favour of the student who went to Uni overseas.

The Thai's know it themselves - in fact many adverts for young professionals starting out often make referance to overseas Uni or tertiary education.

[wintermute]

10 Thai's apply for a job: 9 went to Uni in Thailand and one went to Uni in the UK or the USA ..... and you've all already worked out the rest of this statement: chances are overwhelmingly in favour of the student who went to Uni overseas.

The Thai's know it themselves - in fact many adverts for young professionals starting out often make referance to overseas Uni or tertiary education.

Of the overseas born or educated Thais that I know the vast majority choose to stay overseas once they complete their education. A lot of them come back to Thailand to visit but they have the same complaints as foreigners often do. Actually, a lot more of them can't hack it in Thailand again because they have seen the difference.

The best and the brightest usually leave Thailand..it's the truth. Singapore actually has an educational program that recruits the best students in the SE asian region and gives them a full ride with options to work in Singapore. Quite a few of Thailand's brightest end up over there.

[Jookster]

The only thing I would say is that the curriculum of the English language degree at BKK uni is not easy! A lot of people in say the UK would struggle with it. With topics from poetry to the origins of language etc.

How easy it is marked I am not sure.

[Briggsy]

The school systems here are abysmal. Rote memorization and recitation isn't the problem here..a lot of asian nations use that system but yet they do very well (Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, etc..). The problem with Thai schools is that there are no standards or ethics whatsoever. You can skirt by with the poorest work ethic and you can cheat, copy, and slack your way through to a degree without learning anything.

I know a couple Thai electrical engineering students who go to a large private university here and they don't do anything. Their daily routine consists of class (when they feel like going), clubbing, and drinking. They don't study because they say it's not necessary and the instructors usually pass them with the minimum required to graduate. The tests are designed to pass the maximum number of students. Engineering is a highly technical and involved field which requires LOTS of studying and project work. My cousin is a mechanical engineer and graduated from a state university in the U.S. he literally didn't much time to do anything except study.

There are no standards enforced in Thailand because if Thai students started failing en masse there would be a large "loss of face" for the university and for the nation. Part of this is due in part to the inherent lack of work ethic in Thai culture. However, a lot of it is due to the fact that your existing social position is what gets you jobs here. It's not a meritocracy at all in Thai organizations..it's all who you know or who your family knows rather than what you are actually competent at. This is the primary reason why this country has problems with corruption and everything is done to a substandard level.

There was a study done awhile back that showed that Thailand ranked nearly at the very bottom in TOEFL scores I think Cambodia and Laos had more people score higher than Thais. That should tell you something right there..

Great post.

I have taught in a Thai university and the situation is precisely as detailed by Wintermute here.

The standards or lack of them in all subjects are simply shocking.

[crazydiamond]

First and foremost, Bangkok University should be placed no better than 3rd or 4th tier school at best.

I had a chance to visit Japan and China and you know what, they are worst.

It was almost impossible to find someone who is able to help you on the map.

They were sort of having o% knowledge in english. Things are much better in Bangkok.

[PeaceBlondie]

At first, I assumed it was just English that Thai students in govt. high schools and universities couldn't master if you gave them a master's degree in it. Now, listening to various people, reading ThaiVisa, and seeing the problems in this country, I doubt that Thai students learn history, math, science, Thai language, geography, astrophysics, engineering, Thai dance, music, thumbsucking, somtam eating, or anything else, well enough to make a real living out of it.

I wish I were mistaken about this.

[wintermute]

At first, I assumed it was just English that Thai students in govt. high schools and universities couldn't master if you gave them a master's degree in it. Now, listening to various people, reading ThaiVisa, and seeing the problems in this country, I doubt that Thai students learn history, math, science, Thai language, geography, astrophysics, engineering, Thai dance, music, thumbsucking, somtam eating, or anything else, well enough to make a real living out of it.

I wish I were mistaken about this.

They have big problems with any technical learning in this country. You'd be hard pressed to find Thai college students that are any good at high level math, physics, or science. This is a real problem for Thailand and it's much more serious than the lack of English proficiency. There are several asian countries who get by just fine with minimal english proficiency but they have compensated by churning out highly competitive engineering, computer science, or other tech based graduates who go on to fuel their economic boom.

Thailand is already hitting a skilled manpower shortage because they lack domestic expertise. Just look at how they struggle in figuring out how to repair the new airport themselves. Their first reaction was to call foreign engineers in to figure it out for them. Notice how all the major projects in Thailand have largely been built and maintained by foreign companies. (thai-italian, siemens, mitsubishi, sino-thai, etc..)

[britmaveric]

Dates with DJ Pat are normally in the cards for some of the lady students.

[madjbs]

Big Projects in most of the world and practically all Asian countries are run by those companies, its not just Thailand. And just because they are European it doesn’t mean that all the engineers are. They built allot of Hong Kong airport for example using western, Asian and some American engineers. You can’t blame the Thai workers for all the airports structural problems, they can only work with what they are given. A large problem contractors had at the airport was the budget was given for top grade materials but when said materials arrive they just happened to be poor quality, as it happens this is what happened to a very large asphalt order.

Jake

Edited February 18, 2007 by madjbs

[Richb2004v2]

This is probably taking it to extremes, but I have noticed that when ever I make a transaction in a shop the shop keeper always uses a calculator to work out the price and change, no matter what the sum, even if its just two items at 100 baht each. Often they repeat the calculation more than once. Even if I say ‘song loy’ they ignore me and use the calculator. It may be completely innocent in that they may be simply showing me that they aren’t ripping me off, but I do wonder.

I have also noticed when working abroad that I hardly ever come across Thais in engineering jobs. There are plenty of Philipino and Indians etc, but I rarely come across Thais, other than welders and the like. Once again there may be reasons for this, maybe I just happen to be in non Thai locations and positions, but I do wonder.

It’s easy to be judgmental and criticize.

[meom]

In Europe there seem to be peoples who have no problem with this language..eg Dutch people, while the French and others struggle.

I went to school in Holland and almost everybody is taught English in school (plus French and German if you're interested).

Besides that there's a lot of exposure to the English language through radio (pop music) and on television where english/american movies are subtitled.

[popshirt]

At first, I assumed it was just English that Thai students in govt. high schools and universities couldn't master if you gave them a master's degree in it. Now, listening to various people, reading ThaiVisa, and seeing the problems in this country, I doubt that Thai students learn history, math, science, Thai language, geography, astrophysics, engineering, Thai dance, music, thumbsucking, somtam eating, or anything else, well enough to make a real living out of it.

I wish I were mistaken about this.

I am acquainted with a number of graduates of Chulalongkorn University who majored in Thai Classical Music. And were awarded degrees. None are, at present, earning money based on this education. None that I know of even practise their instruments of choice. None attend musical events featuring Thai classical music unless a friend is performing. And none of them have full-time jobs even though they have graduated several years ago.

[ajarnmark]

Well, you are complaining about undergraduates and masters degree students probably. But I know the PhD students from an international university in Thailand. I am amazed that how the students who cant speak a single word in English in class can do their reports and thesis in perfect English.

I solved this mystery when one day I saw that one of my PhD student left and her email account was open with an email from some website that offer books, papers, reports and thesis etc. which are not available anywhere on the web. Subscription to that website was not very cheap but that girl got it coz she wants to get a PhD degree to show off. She is older than me and cant think anything independently.

Amazing Thailand.

[srifah]

Don't want to be hypocrite! if I have bad experience as some of the people on this forum, but perfer to live in LOS, I wouldn't send my child(ren) school in Thailand.