2 Bars Closed Down Under Junta's Sweeping Booze Ban

[jacky54]

when are they ever in School anyway? any time I go to the local mall it's full of kids in uniform

[jaywalker]

[bboy]

What is happening in Thailand? Words are being turned into actions.

As much as I feel this is the wrong approach and that education to change attitudes towards drinking is the way to go this is certainly impressive.

Police officers transferred to inactive posts and bars actually being closed down.

Give it 6 months and we will see if the drive towards this policy continues.

Token action for a nonsense policy, done in order to mask and draw attention away from all the failed policies.

Meanwhile, illegal fishing continues using trafficked labour...

All. About. Tea Money. Grace period would allow time to comply resulting in no opportunistic bribery by those who "protect & serve" / extort & victimise.

[Gumballl]

Looks like a typical place for the Thai youngsters. I wonder how many such places are allowed and licensed in Western countries. If I remember correctly some still consider 21 the legal age before alcohol consumption is allowed.

IIRC, in California, the minimum distance between a "watering-hole" and a school must be 600 feet (approximately 183 meters).

I agree with the new Thai law in principal, but 300 meters is over-kill.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Looks like it's going to be a bit quieter in Bangkok...

[heybruce]

You are desperately reaching with this one rubl. Stores that sold alcohol in gas stations, school campuses and places of religious worship had to stop selling alcohol on January 1 2007. That's reasonable.

In 2008 alcohol consumption on public buses was banned. My uncle used to drive a bus and had to deal with drunk passengers, it wasn't pleasant. This ban is also reasonable.

In 2013 restrictions supposedly went into effect banning alcohol consumption in public places. Either public places are narrowly defined or it isn't being enforced.

"Anyway, very obviously the current government's order is worst since it not from a democratic government like the one which started all this in 2005, but by a junta appointed government."

Granted, the fact that this rule is being forced on the country by Prayut and his Article 44-ship is bad, but it is obviously worse because it is turning thousands of legal businesses into illegal businesses without recourse. Did any businesses close because they couldn't sale alcohol to drivers at gas stations or students on campuses? How many people lost their jobs because they couldn't drink in a bus or on a footpath?

This order, if strictly enforced, will close thousands of businesses, put countless people out of work, and devastate the tourist industry. But it's unlikely to be strictly enforced, it will just be used by the police and government officials to shakedown businesses for more bribes. Nice reform work, isn't it?

Well you always seem to complain that laws are not enforced and now you changed your mind?

What about that "In 2013 restrictions supposedly went into effect banning alcohol consumption in public places. Either public places are narrowly defined or it isn't being enforced." ? Just some daft measures from a government?

BTW I haven't seen any data on how many legitimate business are being forced out of business. Neither have I seen how many illegitimate business are being forced out of business. furthermore you 'assume' it to be unlikely to be strictly enforced and therefore you condemn a bit more with your "nice reform work, isn't it".

The OP mentioned TWO bars being closed in a 'sweeping' effort. The picture shows what seem to be real youngsters. The police should have asked for IDs as well. That's what happens in some Western countries when a bar is closed (or just raided). Next I guess we'll be even more PC and demand that songs with dubious contents are no longer played. Logical evolving from Western examples.

PS the fact that you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm getting desperate. I don't have a program to push.

"Well you always seem to complain that laws are not enforced and now you changed your mind?"

I don't know what you're referring to. Would you care to give some examples so I can deal with that question in context?

Regarding the rest of your post, it seems you are equating limitations on the times and locations of alcohol sales and restrictions on drinking in public to the orders Prayut issued that instantly made thousands of formerly legal businesses illegal. Is that it? Are you stating that restrictions on alcohol that are common in the west are as bad as outlawing the livelihoods of countless Thais with a couple of poorly thought-out orders?

In my original post #71 I wrote:

"In his typical rule by decree manner Praut issued an order and made thousands of legal businesses illegal, put countless jobs at risk, and further damaged Thailand's already weak reputation as a good place to invest and do business. As the full article points out, this law in unlikely to be strictly enforced, it will simply provide police and government officials a tool to extort money from previously legal businesses."

In your reply you never refuted what I posted, you simply went off on a "But Thaksin started it!" diversion. Can you refute what I posted?

My dear Heybruce, you don't have to go out of your way to come with nonsense. You simply don't like anything this government does. That's fine, no problem.

As for refuting what you post, why should I?

PS how many thousands of 'legal' businesses were made illegal? How many jobs in how many businesses? How many 'bars' are globally seen as a good investment? How many protest groups in democratic Western countries oppose the sale of alcohol to youngsters and tell their 'elected' representatives to do something?

Anyway, 7:32AM, time for coffee.

"you don't have to go out of your way to come with nonsense."

No I don't. You and others provide it for me.

"You simply don't like anything this government does."

I don't like this and many other things the junta does, and I definitely don't like how they came to power and how they remain in power. Your point being...?

"As for refuting what you post, why should I?"

Quite right. Since you replied to my post with a diversion instead of an attempt at refuting it, it's clear you can't refute what I posted.

"PS how many thousands of 'legal' businesses were made illegal? How many jobs in how many businesses?"

You could simply note that there are over 100 universities in Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Thailand http://www.4icu.org/th/thai-universities.htm, assume there are a similar number of technical colleges, and multiply 200+ by a reasonable estimate of the number of bars, 7-11's,and restaurants that sell alcohol are within 300 meters of the average university or college. The number would be in the thousands, and it would be a low estimate.

I don't see how the rest of your post is on-topic, I assume you are once again trying to divert attention from this idiotic decree which appears to have been rescinded for further study.

Perhaps you should have your coffee before attempting to post.

[rjcampbe]

The stupidity is just beyond words.... I can only hope it is as short lived and ineffective as all the other idiotic decrees have been.

And it was!!!

[rubl]

Well you always seem to complain that laws are not enforced and now you changed your mind?

What about that "In 2013 restrictions supposedly went into effect banning alcohol consumption in public places. Either public places are narrowly defined or it isn't being enforced." ? Just some daft measures from a government?

BTW I haven't seen any data on how many legitimate business are being forced out of business. Neither have I seen how many illegitimate business are being forced out of business. furthermore you 'assume' it to be unlikely to be strictly enforced and therefore you condemn a bit more with your "nice reform work, isn't it".

The OP mentioned TWO bars being closed in a 'sweeping' effort. The picture shows what seem to be real youngsters. The police should have asked for IDs as well. That's what happens in some Western countries when a bar is closed (or just raided). Next I guess we'll be even more PC and demand that songs with dubious contents are no longer played. Logical evolving from Western examples.

PS the fact that you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm getting desperate. I don't have a program to push.

"Well you always seem to complain that laws are not enforced and now you changed your mind?"

I don't know what you're referring to. Would you care to give some examples so I can deal with that question in context?

Regarding the rest of your post, it seems you are equating limitations on the times and locations of alcohol sales and restrictions on drinking in public to the orders Prayut issued that instantly made thousands of formerly legal businesses illegal. Is that it? Are you stating that restrictions on alcohol that are common in the west are as bad as outlawing the livelihoods of countless Thais with a couple of poorly thought-out orders?

In my original post #71 I wrote:

"In his typical rule by decree manner Praut issued an order and made thousands of legal businesses illegal, put countless jobs at risk, and further damaged Thailand's already weak reputation as a good place to invest and do business. As the full article points out, this law in unlikely to be strictly enforced, it will simply provide police and government officials a tool to extort money from previously legal businesses."

In your reply you never refuted what I posted, you simply went off on a "But Thaksin started it!" diversion. Can you refute what I posted?

My dear Heybruce, you don't have to go out of your way to come with nonsense. You simply don't like anything this government does. That's fine, no problem.

As for refuting what you post, why should I?

PS how many thousands of 'legal' businesses were made illegal? How many jobs in how many businesses? How many 'bars' are globally seen as a good investment? How many protest groups in democratic Western countries oppose the sale of alcohol to youngsters and tell their 'elected' representatives to do something?

Anyway, 7:32AM, time for coffee.

"you don't have to go out of your way to come with nonsense."

No I don't. You and others provide it for me.

"You simply don't like anything this government does."

I don't like this and many other things the junta does, and I definitely don't like how they came to power and how they remain in power. Your point being...?

"As for refuting what you post, why should I?"

Quite right. Since you replied to my post with a diversion instead of an attempt at refuting it, it's clear you can't refute what I posted.

"PS how many thousands of 'legal' businesses were made illegal? How many jobs in how many businesses?"

You could simply note that there are over 100 universities in Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Thailand http://www.4icu.org/th/thai-universities.htm, assume there are a similar number of technical colleges, and multiply 200+ by a reasonable estimate of the number of bars, 7-11's,and restaurants that sell alcohol are within 300 meters of the average university or college. The number would be in the thousands, and it would be a low estimate.

I don't see how the rest of your post is on-topic, I assume you are once again trying to divert attention from this idiotic decree which appears to have been rescinded for further study.

Perhaps you should have your coffee before attempting to post.

So, 2 bars closed and heybruce not happy.

distance of 300 meters discussed a month ago, six months ago, a year ago and even longer before, but Heybruce still not happy.

A number would be in the thousands according to Heybruce, but two bars closed.

The government listened to the comments after the new law was enforced, but Heybruce still not happy.

No complaints about how previous governments put things in motion and laws and then didn't enforce them, because that's what Heybruce expects from democratically elected governments, words but no action. Must be an interesting country Heybruce comes from, still wondering which as Heybruce seems to avoid sudyously to give any indication. Makes you wonder.

Anyway, two bars closed.

Edited July 29, 2015 by rubl

[heybruce]

"Well you always seem to complain that laws are not enforced and now you changed your mind?"

I don't know what you're referring to. Would you care to give some examples so I can deal with that question in context?

Regarding the rest of your post, it seems you are equating limitations on the times and locations of alcohol sales and restrictions on drinking in public to the orders Prayut issued that instantly made thousands of formerly legal businesses illegal. Is that it? Are you stating that restrictions on alcohol that are common in the west are as bad as outlawing the livelihoods of countless Thais with a couple of poorly thought-out orders?

In my original post #71 I wrote:

"In his typical rule by decree manner Praut issued an order and made thousands of legal businesses illegal, put countless jobs at risk, and further damaged Thailand's already weak reputation as a good place to invest and do business. As the full article points out, this law in unlikely to be strictly enforced, it will simply provide police and government officials a tool to extort money from previously legal businesses."

In your reply you never refuted what I posted, you simply went off on a "But Thaksin started it!" diversion. Can you refute what I posted?

My dear Heybruce, you don't have to go out of your way to come with nonsense. You simply don't like anything this government does. That's fine, no problem.

As for refuting what you post, why should I?

PS how many thousands of 'legal' businesses were made illegal? How many jobs in how many businesses? How many 'bars' are globally seen as a good investment? How many protest groups in democratic Western countries oppose the sale of alcohol to youngsters and tell their 'elected' representatives to do something?

Anyway, 7:32AM, time for coffee.

"you don't have to go out of your way to come with nonsense."

No I don't. You and others provide it for me.

"You simply don't like anything this government does."

I don't like this and many other things the junta does, and I definitely don't like how they came to power and how they remain in power. Your point being...?

"As for refuting what you post, why should I?"

Quite right. Since you replied to my post with a diversion instead of an attempt at refuting it, it's clear you can't refute what I posted.

"PS how many thousands of 'legal' businesses were made illegal? How many jobs in how many businesses?"

You could simply note that there are over 100 universities in Thailand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_Thailand http://www.4icu.org/th/thai-universities.htm, assume there are a similar number of technical colleges, and multiply 200+ by a reasonable estimate of the number of bars, 7-11's,and restaurants that sell alcohol are within 300 meters of the average university or college. The number would be in the thousands, and it would be a low estimate.

I don't see how the rest of your post is on-topic, I assume you are once again trying to divert attention from this idiotic decree which appears to have been rescinded for further study.

Perhaps you should have your coffee before attempting to post.

So, 2 bars closed and heybruce not happy.

distance of 300 meters discussed a month ago, six months ago, a year ago and even longer before, but Heybruce still not happy.

A number would be in the thousands according to Heybruce, but two bars closed.

The government listened to the comments after the new law was enforced, but Heybruce still not happy.

No complaints about how previous governments put things in motion and laws and then didn't enforce them, because that's what Heybruce expects from democratically elected governments, words but no action. Must be an interesting country Heybruce comes from, still wondering which as Heybruce seems to avoid sudyously to give any indication. Makes you wonder.

Anyway, two bars closed.

Two bars closed because they were selling to underage drinkers. I have no problem with that, but I suspect there are more than two bars guilty of this.

Thousands of legal businesses were on the verge of being made illegal because of Prayut's order. So far the order has not been published, and maybe the government has backed down on this idiotic idea, but maybe not. In the meantime every bar within 300 meters, or perhaps "in the vicinity" of a school has an uncertain future.

There were discussions about the 300 meter restriction in the past, but it seemed so ridiculous I don't think many people took them seriously. The government discusses lots of things, they've even been discussing having elections someday, but haven't scheduled anything.

I had many disagreements with what the previous government did, but since the Thai people could pass judgment on their government by way of elections I didn't worry about them too much. After all, it is the Thai people's country, or should be. It shouldn't belong to the military to do with as the generals see fit.

"Must be an interesting country Heybruce comes from, still wondering which as Heybruce seems to avoid sudyously to give any indication."

Huh? I don't understand why this is pertinent to anything. Are you once again attempting to go off-topic?

[mikemac]

So,

We have been told about TWO bars that according to the OP were visited by police ........" shortly after midnight on 25 July and shut both places down".

Whilst the OP mentions the "new regulations/legislation" ...........................is it just possible this has more to do with trading illegally AFTER MIDNIGHT, rather than a first step in a wide ranging

( and somewhat stupid) new law pertaining to the sale of alcohol close to " educational institutions".

In my youth a bar WAS an educational institution, learnt just as much there as any college or uni.

Personally, I will wait until I hear about Soi Cowboy & Pattaya Walking street being closed before I start crying that the sky is falling.

Just wait a couple of weeks and it will all be forgotten about. Just like the "ban" on beer promotion girls and advertising alocohol on beer mats and menus!

In any case, expat/tourist areas are not their prime targtes as they're not often frequented by Thai students.

I agree, every crackdown I have seen in the last 10 yrs have amounted to nothing, under various governments, and I doubt this one will be any different.

Some of the above comments are good examples of junta-bashers using the latest crackdown to criticize the government. It just makes them look stupid when the government backs down on that one, and announces another one the next day.

I am sure the government does it just to stir up the gullible farangs who should know better.

[rubl]

Anyway, obviously and clear for all to see thousands of (possibly) legitimate businesses saved for now.

The government has listened and put the measure on hold for the moment. As previous governments have made certain restrictions law but didn't enforce the law, (equally) obvious the current government is to blame . How dare they enforce laws! Why do they listen to complaints? Don't they know a democratic government decided on three zones in Bangkok ten or so years ago and outside those zones every 'entertainment' business must be closed?

PS a serious crackdown was announced around the 22nd of April 2014 by then Deputy Police Chief Adul Narongsak. It was said to be a result of the total disregard venue owners gave to laws on out-of-hours opening. Although illegal bars and nightclubs would be targeted especially, legitimate businesses could suffer as well.

Edited July 30, 2015 by rubl

[heybruce]

So,

We have been told about TWO bars that according to the OP were visited by police ........" shortly after midnight on 25 July and shut both places down".

Whilst the OP mentions the "new regulations/legislation" ...........................is it just possible this has more to do with trading illegally AFTER MIDNIGHT, rather than a first step in a wide ranging

( and somewhat stupid) new law pertaining to the sale of alcohol close to " educational institutions".

In my youth a bar WAS an educational institution, learnt just as much there as any college or uni.

Personally, I will wait until I hear about Soi Cowboy & Pattaya Walking street being closed before I start crying that the sky is falling.

Just wait a couple of weeks and it will all be forgotten about. Just like the "ban" on beer promotion girls and advertising alocohol on beer mats and menus!

In any case, expat/tourist areas are not their prime targtes as they're not often frequented by Thai students.

I agree, every crackdown I have seen in the last 10 yrs have amounted to nothing, under various governments, and I doubt this one will be any different.

Some of the above comments are good examples of junta-bashers using the latest crackdown to criticize the government. It just makes them look stupid when the government backs down on that one, and announces another one the next day.

I am sure the government does it just to stir up the gullible farangs who should know better.

Wait a second--you're claiming that it's the critics of the repeated government crackdowns and back-downs that look bad?

Seems to me the frequent crackdowns and back-downs make the government look bad, as the critics are pointing out. They also create a very unpredictable business environment, which is bad for the economy.

Edited July 30, 2015 by heybruce

[Dumbastheycome]

And perhaps the intent has been achieved.....bars targeting selling to underaged students are on notice? Those that do more legit trade can rest a little easy?