Is 2G being switched off?

[VBF]

I have a AIS (12Call) SIM card in an old 2G-only Nokia 1800 phone. (A dumb phone, if you like)

The SIM (and hence the number) is registered and i can log in to the AIS site and see the ownership details, balance etc.

I'm presently in the UK with the phone in my possession.

Due to roaming agreements, up to now I've been able to send and receive calls and texts on this phone when outside Thailand.

I have heard from a friend in Thailand that 2G is being discontinued and everyone is being migrated to 3G as of 31st July. Apparently some phone companies are making the change at the end of August.

Now I find it hard to believe that suddenly all AIS customers with old phones will lose their service, so has anyone else heard anything of this or has my friend been misinformed?

[Tywais]

Some info below:

https://www.telegeography.com/products/commsupdate/articles/2015/07/02/final-2g-phase-out-periods-agreed-in-thailand/

Regarding True's extension - https://www.telegeography.com/products/commsupdate/articles/2015/06/26/trues-2g-gets-six-month-extension/

[VBF]

Some info below:

https://www.telegeography.com/products/commsupdate/articles/2015/07/02/final-2g-phase-out-periods-agreed-in-thailand/

Regarding True's extension - https://www.telegeography.com/products/commsupdate/articles/2015/06/26/trues-2g-gets-six-month-extension/

Interesting - thanks Tywais - obviously a site worth keeping up with!

[RichCor]

Some telecom analyst presentations have revealed a desire by AIS to continue serving 2G equipment on 900, once it wins a bid to continue operating in that spectrum.

No idea if National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission (NBTC) will force AIS to cease 900 operation until after the 900 bid is awarded.

[partington]

I have a 1-2 call SIM that I bought nearly 5 years ago that I used in a 2G phone until a few weeks ago, when I bought a new LTE compatible phone. The new one uses a micro SIM so I got the standard size SIM cut down at a shop in Fortune Town and put it in the new phone.

A bit of searching showed that the APN settings for AIS 3G should be:

Name: AIS internet

APN: internet

MCC: 520

MNC: 03

and after entering these details under "Wireless and Networks" settings on the new phone I got a 3G signal and data download capability that I never had before without having to do anything else at all, including informing AIS , or signing up for any data plan.

So I think at least some of the old cards can be used without a problem when 2G disappears.

[RichCor]

Yes, as you've found, a SIM (subscriber identification module) can be moved into a newer, more capable device.

The SIM itself isn't GSM/2G/3G/4G/LTE specific (unless the network operator programs it that way)

SIM cards, along with user CONTACTS and SMS data, store network-specific information used to authenticate and identify subscribers on the network as well as carrier-specific data, like MNCs, preferred networks, spectrum use and broadcast control channels, data protocols ... all the basic information necessary for first time connection to the network in a new different device. On newer SIMs this data can be kept up-to-date (written back to the SIM) by the mobile network.

[bamnutsak]

I have heard from a friend in Thailand that 2G is being discontinued and everyone is being migrated to 3G as of 31st July

Suspect your friend is confusing the SIM registration deadline (TODAY: 31 July 2015), and the upcoming end of AIS's GSM900 (2G) concession in September, 2015 (mid-, or end) so in the next 45-60 days.

You'll have to get a phone which supports 3G/2100 MHz (can be a non-smart phone), or port out (keeping your existing telephone number) to DTAC; your current handset will work on their GSM1800 network, which ends in 2018.

Check with AIS, they may have some decent promotions. (TrueMove H has been giving out FREE 3G/2100 non-smartphone handsets, with a small top-up and a trade-in of your old, or any, handset.

They have some in-house brands, like Lava for as little as 1,690 THB.

http://www.ais.co.th/quality_device/en/device/72/LAVA%20B%203.5%22

If you stay with AIS, and get a new phone, do also get a new SIM (they'll give it to you for free, and map your existing number to the new SIM).

Edited July 31, 2015 by bamnutsak

[VBF]

I have heard from a friend in Thailand that 2G is being discontinued and everyone is being migrated to 3G as of 31st July

Suspect your friend is confusing the SIM registration deadline (TODAY: 31 July 2015), and the upcoming end of AIS's GSM900 (2G) concession in September, 2015 (mid-, or end) so in the next 45-60 days.

You'll have to get a phone which supports 3G/2100 MHz (can be a non-smart phone), or port out (keeping your existing telephone number) to DTAC; your current handset will work on their GSM1800 network, which ends in 2018.

Check with AIS, they may have some decent promotions. (TrueMove H has been giving out FREE 3G/2100 non-smartphone handsets, with a small top-up and a trade-in of your old, or any, handset.

They have some in-house brands, like Lava for as little as 1,690 THB.

http://www.ais.co.th/quality_device/en/device/72/LAVA%20B%203.5%22

If you stay with AIS, and get a new phone, do also get a new SIM (they'll give it to you for free, and map your existing number to the new SIM).

Very good advice but unfortunately, as I said in my OP, I'm in UK and THAT'S the difficult bit - will have to wait until I return to Thailand and hope my existing number's not been reassigned!

[RichCor]

I have heard from a friend in Thailand that 2G is being discontinued and everyone is being migrated to 3G as of 31st July

Suspect your friend is confusing the SIM registration deadline (TODAY: 31 July 2015), and the upcoming end of AIS's GSM900 (2G) concession in September, 2015 (mid-, or end) so in the next 45-60 days.

<snip>

Very good advice but unfortunately, as I said in my OP, I'm in UK and THAT'S the difficult bit - will have to wait until I return to Thailand and hope my existing number's not been reassigned!

So long as your SIM (account) has a topup balance, is maintaining accumulated validity and is NBTC registered then you and it should be fine.

I say 'should be' because there are some issues that haven't been discussed.

AIS previously had a 'revenue-sharing concession' deal/agreement, since 1991, to offer 2G services using TOT controlled frequencies and equipment in the 900 MHz band. That concession is ending September 2015.

AIS has since created AIS/AWN (an AIS owned subsidiary) that obtained a license to operate on 2100 MHz band -and- began migrating most of their customers to the newer company. Those AIS/AWN customers primarily use 2100 but can roam where AIS has working agreements on other frequencies.

AIS also seeks to rent capacity on the 900-megahertz mobile network from TOT to enable it to keep the customers at the end of its 2G concession.

The concessions of both TOT and fellow state telco CAT stipulate that after the concession ends, the concession holder takes over operations and the subscribers of the concessionee. There is the possibility for TOT to gain both AIS’ remaining 2G customers and more importantly its spectrum on which to run its legacy network.

[VBF]

I have heard from a friend in Thailand that 2G is being discontinued and everyone is being migrated to 3G as of 31st July

Suspect your friend is confusing the SIM registration deadline (TODAY: 31 July 2015), and the upcoming end of AIS's GSM900 (2G) concession in September, 2015 (mid-, or end) so in the next 45-60 days.

<snip>

Very good advice but unfortunately, as I said in my OP, I'm in UK and THAT'S the difficult bit - will have to wait until I return to Thailand and hope my existing number's not been reassigned!

So long as your SIM (account) has a topup balance, is maintaining accumulated validity and is NBTC registered then you and it should be fine.

I say 'should be' because there are some issues that haven't been discussed.

AIS previously had a 'revenue-sharing concession' deal/agreement, since 1991, to offer 2G services using TOT controlled frequencies and equipment in the 900 MHz band. That concession is ending September 2015.

AIS has since created AIS/AWN (an AIS owned subsidiary) that obtained a license to operate on 2100 MHz band -and- began migrating most of their customers to the newer company. Those AIS/AWN customers primarily use 2100 but can roam where AIS has working agreements on other frequencies.

AIS also seeks to rent capacity on the 900-megahertz mobile network from TOT to enable it to keep the customers at the end of its 2G concession.

The concessions of both TOT and fellow state telco CAT stipulate that after the concession ends, the concession holder takes over operations and the subscribers of the concessionee. There is the possibility for TOT to gain both AIS’ remaining 2G customers and more importantly its spectrum on which to run its legacy network.

Thanks RichCor,

I'm aware of some of what you say and as I mentioned in my OP, "I'm using an old 2G-only Nokia 1800 phone." This works on 900/1800, so in my case I have to hope that where you say:

"AIS also seeks to rent capacity on the 900-megahertz mobile network from TOT to enable it to keep the customers at the end of its 2G concession."

they succeed, as that would resolve my problem.

If not, well I might have to change number - that would be tiresome but not insurmountable.

It's rather amusing that, in this case Thailand (and most of Asia) is ahead of UK - we're keeping our 2G /GSM until at least 2020

Funny old world, innit?

[RichCor]

AIS has stated that if they are awarded a new license back in their old 900 MHz spectrum that they would provide 2G coverage once again.

But there will be a service gap, between September 2015 and January 2016, before a new license can be are awarded, and AIS would need to install their own equipment to provide 900 MHz service.

And while AIS would like to lease intermediate service from TOT to continue to service 2G 900 MHz customers, TOT may not have the option to do that.

TOT braces for life without 900MHz spectrum

The Nation | Usanee Mongkolporn | July 31, 2015 1:00 am

TOT labor union threatens to derail 900-MHz auction

telecomasia.net | Don Sambandaraksa | July 30, 2015

TOT points out that the 900-MHz spectrum was given to them by the former Ministry of Transport and Communications without any expiry date and should be returned to them for use after the AIS concession expires this September along with the equipment and subscribers as per the concession contract.

Edited July 31, 2015 by RichCor

[bamnutsak]

Very good advice but unfortunately, as I said in my OP, I'm in UK and THAT'S the difficult bit - will have to wait until I return to Thailand and hope my existing number's not been reassigned!

Yes, it was obvious from your OP that you are in the UK, the important bit is: when are you returning to Thailand?

What is the current expiry on your account (*121# assumes you are roaming now in the UK)?

I don't foresee any problems resurrecting your SIM/account/number upon your return, then getting a new phone or porting out to DTAC.

You could contact AIS, say by email: [email protected] and explain your situation, and ask for ideas/recommendations. Or maybe ask a friend in Thailand to sort this out for you pending your return.

Edited August 1, 2015 by bamnutsak

[fang37]

I upgraded by TRUE sub after the announcement - now 3G.

Difference?

I then added some credit. Now, the credit balance does not seem to decrease.

Secondly, I heard that you are unable to extend the expiry date of credit.

Comment?

[bamnutsak]

Secondly, I heard that you are unable to extend the expiry date of credit.

Where did you "hear" this? Have you added value? You can check the expiry with #123#.

I add 10 baht to my TrueMove H pre-paid SIM (used by visitors) at a top-up machine (12 baht with the 2 baht fee), every month, and this adds 30 days and pushes my expiration out to 365 days.

Or you can use the "Quick Add" feature... http://truemoveh.truecorp.co.th/news_events/others/5158?ln=en

2 baht/30 days, similar to the DTAC "Day Giveaway" feature.

[KhunHeineken]

Can someone clarify this for me?

Are old sim cards 2G, and you need to go into a shop and get a new 3G sim card.

Or, are old phones 2G and they will no longer work when they cut off 2G?

Or, is it both of the above?

What about all these cheap new phones they sell at 7/11 and Family Marts for 1000 baht? They are simple talk and text phones. Aren't they all 2G phones?

[RichCor]

Are old sim cards 2G, and you need to go into a shop and get a new 3G sim card.

Or, are old phones 2G and they will no longer work when they cut off 2G?

Or, is it both of the above?

Potentially, both of the above.

An older SIM Card might not have the capacity to be updated to hold data necessary to access the new network.

AIS has been issuing new SIMs where necessary as they transition people over to the new 3G network.

And, older phones with 900/1800 2G only hardware can't use 2100 or communicate at the faster data rates necessary to establish network connections with 3G towers.

What about all these cheap new phones they sell at 7/11 and Family Marts for 1000 baht? They are simple talk and text phones. Aren't they all 2G phones?

I think you'll find that most of the new phones will now indicate 3G.

Though I'm sure there are still land-fill amounts of 2G Nokia Phones out there as well.

Best to always check the specs.

[bamnutsak]

Can someone clarify this for me? OK.

Are old sim cards 2G, and you need to go into a shop and get a new 3G sim card. Yes, maybe, but this is fairly complex issue as SIMs are tied to specific operators, and within operators, specific subsidiaries (concession, MVNO, auction)

Or, are old phones 2G and they will no longer work when they cut off 2G? Yes.

Or, is it both of the above? Yes.

What about all these cheap new phones they sell at 7/11 and Family Marts for 1000 baht? They are simple talk and text phones. Aren't they all 2G phones? Yes, they support 2G, and hopefully 3G/2100.

[partington]

Can someone clarify this for me?

Are old sim cards 2G, and you need to go into a shop and get a new 3G sim card.

Or, are old phones 2G and they will no longer work when they cut off 2G?

Or, is it both of the above?

What about all these cheap new phones they sell at 7/11 and Family Marts for 1000 baht? They are simple talk and text phones. Aren't they all 2G phones?

If you read my post #5 above, you will see that at least in one case, it was not necessary to buy a new SIM card, merely put it in a new 3G capable phone, and enter the correct settings, and it works fine for 3G services.

Edited August 1, 2015 by partington

[fang37]

TRUE - when upgrading to 3G, they took my SIM card & sent it to BKK. The purpose - to transfer contacts to the new SIM card. Lost in transit.

I do not recall whether there was a fee for upgrade. If there was, it was minimal.

[harrry]

Very good advice but unfortunately, as I said in my OP, I'm in UK and THAT'S the difficult bit - will have to wait until I return to Thailand and hope my existing number's not been reassigned!

Yes, it was obvious from your OP that you are in the UK, the important bit is: when are you returning to Thailand?

What is the current expiry on your account (*121# assumes you are roaming now in the UK)?

I don't foresee any problems resurrecting your SIM/account/number upon your return, then getting a new phone or porting out to DTAC.

You could contact AIS, say by email: [email protected] and explain your situation, and ask for ideas/recommendations. Or maybe ask a friend in Thailand to sort this out for you pending your return.

The problem he has now is the registration which if he has not done by now will stop him making cals. I think this registration on a National Database is different to the registration he has with the AIS website.

Edited August 1, 2015 by harrry

[VBF]

Very good advice but unfortunately, as I said in my OP, I'm in UK and THAT'S the difficult bit - will have to wait until I return to Thailand and hope my existing number's not been reassigned!

Yes, it was obvious from your OP that you are in the UK, the important bit is: when are you returning to Thailand?

What is the current expiry on your account (*121# assumes you are roaming now in the UK)?

I don't foresee any problems resurrecting your SIM/account/number upon your return, then getting a new phone or porting out to DTAC.

You could contact AIS, say by email: [email protected] and explain your situation, and ask for ideas/recommendations. Or maybe ask a friend in Thailand to sort this out for you pending your return.

The problem he has now is the registration which if he has not done by now will stop him making cals. I think this registration on a National Database is different to the registration he has with the AIS website.

Harry - No, that's not a problem. Despite being in UK, I just used my Thai phone to successfully call my UK one - it's presently 16:30 Thai Time on 1st August and calling and roaming are working.

I therefore suspect that the AIS registration is passed on to the national database automatically.

[RichCor]

<snip>

Despite being in UK, I just used my Thai phone to successfully call my UK one - it's presently 16:30 Thai Time on 1st August and calling and roaming are working.

I therefore suspect that the AIS registration is passed on to the national database automatically.

That might not be the case.

NBTC to extend registration of prepaid SIM cards till August 31

ThaiVisa News | by Editor | 2015-08-01

NBTC secretary general Thakorn Tanthasith said however that the extension of registration until August 31 would mean only those who failed to register their cards by the July 31 deadline could answer calls but could not make calls during the extended period.

[VBF]

<snip>

Despite being in UK, I just used my Thai phone to successfully call my UK one - it's presently 16:30 Thai Time on 1st August and calling and roaming are working.

I therefore suspect that the AIS registration is passed on to the national database automatically.

That might not be the case.

NBTC to extend registration of prepaid SIM cards till August 31

ThaiVisa News | by Editor | 2015-08-01

NBTC secretary general Thakorn Tanthasith said however that the extension of registration until August 31 would mean only those who failed to register their cards by the July 31 deadline could answer calls but could not make calls during the extended period.

RichCor

Don't think that's relevant....

If you re-read what i said above - "I just used my Thai phone to successfully call my UK one"

So i made a call from my Thai phone and from that I infer that it must be registered - would you not agree? And, by the way, I switched the phone off last night and on again today before making the call so it's had a need to "log in" to the system today.

Edited August 1, 2015 by VBF

[bamnutsak]

Harry - No, that's not a problem. Despite being in UK, I just used my Thai phone to successfully call my UK one - it's presently 16:30 Thai Time on 1st August and calling and roaming are working.

I doubt that any block on outgoing calls will be extended to int'l roaming partners, at least not any time soon. Not even sure if that can be implemented?

Plenty of challenges in implementing a network-wide service blockage.

Still no way for MVNO customers to register; ~ 500,000.

Still no way for foreign roamers in Thailand to register; all those business folks/diplomats/VIPs coming to Thailand to work - not being able to make calls may be viewed negatively?

I infer that it must be registered

Do you remember registering it? When? I think this effort was launched ~ January, 2015. You could just email AIS and ask? I'm not sure *151# will work when roaming outside of Thailand?

Edited August 1, 2015 by bamnutsak

[harrry]

Actually they can quite easily do it roaming. I hope it keeps going for you but I doubt it.

[VBF]

Harry - No, that's not a problem. Despite being in UK, I just used my Thai phone to successfully call my UK one - it's presently 16:30 Thai Time on 1st August and calling and roaming are working.

I doubt that any block on outgoing calls will be extended to int'l roaming partners, at least not any time soon. Not even sure if that can be implemented?

Plenty of challenges in implementing a network-wide service blockage.

Still no way for MVNO customers to register; ~ 500,000.

Still no way for foreign roamers in Thailand to register; all those business folks/diplomats/VIPs coming to Thailand to work - not being able to make calls may be viewed negatively?

I infer that it must be registered

Do you remember registering it? When? I think this effort was launched ~ January, 2015. You could just email AIS and ask? I'm not sure *151# will work when roaming outside of Thailand?

That's what I said in my OP!!!!! The SIM (and hence the number) is registered and i can log in to the AIS site and see the ownership details, balance etc.

I did this just yesterday, therefore I KNOW it's registered with AIS - the inference was merely that the registration seemed to have made it to the government database!!

Edited August 1, 2015 by VBF

[sandmike]

On changing SIM'S and keeping the number, I had an old 12 call fullsized SIM, which worked fine on 3g in my galaxy S2. I upgraded the phone to a note 4 which takes a smaller SIM. went into telewiz to get the SIM cut down, the girls were suprised that the old SIM still worked, but happily exchanged it for a new smaller SIM and transferred the number with no charge. It took a return visit to get everything working, I saved my contacts to the phone and then copied them back to the new SIM, and all is now well.

I am outside thailand, and *151# works. I had to run the reply through Google translate 'cos it came in Thai, but yes, it works.

Edited August 1, 2015 by sandmike

[bamnutsak]

Registering to use the AIS e-service web-based platform is separate and distinct from registering your SIM, per the recent NBTCs requirements.

That is to say, I could have registered my SIM with AIS (in person, this year, with my passport), but not be registered on the e-Service platform. Or I may have registered for e-Services, but not have my SIM registered. There was no automatic feed-through of previous e-Service registration details to the NBTC-mandated registration.

The government/NBTC only instituted this registration requirement ~ January, 2015, so you probably remember registering in person sometime over the last ~ 7 months during a trip to Thailand?

In any event, as sandmike indicated above, *151# should work even when roaming in the U.K.? You will have to translate the reply USSD service message. (Android Google Translate is a nice translation app., and it includes an SMS translation feature in the sub-menu.)

Or, if you log-in to the web-based e-Service (https://aiseservice.ais.co.th/eServiceWeb/ ), request a PW, and in the Profile section you see your Name and it has Khun FIRSTNAME MIDDLENAME LASTNAME all in CAPS exactly like your passport, then you are NBTC-SIM registered. Probably.

FYI, one can change the language on AIS USSD service replies (and SMSes) to English with the command *700*5*1#, let that process for a few minutes, you should get a reply, "Your request is complete. You can read English language via..."; then use *151#, and the reply will be in English... "You've already registered your prepaid SIM for this number with IDCard/Passport..."

Edited August 2, 2015 by bamnutsak

[Ace of Pop]

I have True H whatever that is.Phone chap told me 2G folks are going to 4 G now. I kept my number.

[bamnutsak]

I have True H whatever that is.Phone chap told me 2G folks are going to 4 G now. I kept my number.

Yes, TrueMove H do have a GSM1800 concession which ended in September, 2013. However that has been extended at least twice to accommodate the transition of their customers to 3G/2100, and 4G/2100 (data only). Yes, you can keep your number, but you may have to get a new SIM (free) and at a minimum, a handset (dumb or smart) which supports at least 3G/2100. I think this GSM1800 concession will have a hard stop next month, finally.

DTAC's 2G/GSM1800 concession runs until 2018, but this could change if they donate some of this spectrum back for the upcoming auction.

Edited August 2, 2015 by bamnutsak