Thai Navy releases document on why it needs submarines

[yuv06]

I will ask the question again, directed at yuv06, you appear to be very knowledgeable, with regards to these particular Submarines, and as to the reasoning behind the desire to have them, despite strong criticism from the PM himself.

Are you a Thai National serving in the Royal Thai Navy, that you seem to be in possession of more knowledge than your average Joe here ?

The reason I ask, is that if you're indeed posting with first hand knowledge, then you deserve that respect, if not, and you're a farang with just another faceless name on a forum, with an opinion that at the end of the day doesn't matter.

Fat Haggis no problems I am 100% Thai I do not serve in the military but always keep tab of what they are buying and study those that they want to acquire from the onset like you I was skeptical of Chinese subs but with budget constraints and with the subs ability to hit surface vessels from 200km away it is a bargain, if they go with German or Swedish they will only get 2 and those subs would have to get in close to fire torpedoes. The Chinese subs on the other hand have the capability to launch torpedoes and cruise missiles while submerged both supersonic and subsonic. The same for the army when they bought the OPLOT tanks I thought they would have gone for Leopards or South Korean K1 but those tanks are over 60 tons they would sink in soft soil during the rainy season. The OPLOT on the other hand is 50 tons and very advanced it is today considered the most advance tank in SE Asia, like the Malaysians they also have problems with soft soil so that is why Malaysians chose the Polish tanks which is also within 50 tons and from what I heard latest is Malaysia is very interested in following Thailand to purchase the OPLOT tanks. I think the other reason is political they want to reduce dependency from the West as the West especially USA have been known to embargo arms shipment when they chose to. I hope this clarify your question.

[Fat Haggis]

Good post, and thanks, you know your stuff

[lovelomsak]

Being that I amnot as knowledgeable as many TV members thus my thoughts on why the subs are needed is a little different,than the well versed person. I

think they need them to support Chins in the south seas problem that is unfolding. Thailands location would help China a lot if things came to blows. And subs bought from China and used to help China could give Thailand a lot of power, in the asian world.

Edited August 12, 2015 by metisdead
Font.

[yuv06]

Being that I amnot as knowledgeable as many TV members thus my thoughts on why the subs are needed is a little different,than the well versed person. I

think they need them to support Chins in the south seas problem that is unfolding. Thailands location would help China a lot if things came to blows. And subs bought from China and used to help China could give Thailand a lot of power, in the asian world.

You may be partly right, but I also think that Thailand does not trust the west so much as before we have to remember Thailand kicked out the USA in the 80s if I recall correctly. Since than it seems Thailand has been edging more towards China as seen by acquiring Chinese ships in the 90s onward seems to acquire weapons more from Europe and Asia than USA such as the 2 new Frigates from South Korea it seems lately they are interested in obtaining SAM S300 or S400 from Russia all these move would negate USA power to control Thailand. I won't be surprised if the next batch of fighter jets were Russian Sukhoi SU30s or SU35s but adapted with Israeli and western avionics and Saab data link, that would be really great as it provides top notch air-to-air missiles from Russia and combined with top notch western avionics and deep strike capability.

Also recently a Yuan class submarine slipped through the Straits of Malacca unnoticed until it popped up in Pakistan http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/china-submarine-hainan-island-south-china-sea-beijing-pakistan-rk-dhowan/1/442280.html

[yuv06]

If the gulf of Thailand is only 50 m deep, then there is no sub needed. Purchase patrol boats.

The sea around Singapore is average 40 meters deep but they got 6 subs and 2 more on order they will have 8 subs and Indonesia is aiming for 18 subs

@ yuv06 NOT TRUE !!!

The Singapore Strait (90 Nm long) is up to 160 meters deep !!! (average is 60 meters, shallow shores included)

FYI info I do not type hearsay things on the internet what I say or comment I have researched

"There are numerous tiny islands in the Singapore Strait, and the subsurface is replete with irregular underwater channels and marine canyons. The bathymetry exhibits a depth variation form several meters to a channel depth of about 130 meters, with a mean depth of approximately 40 meters." http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/170665/

[fasteddie]

And as for the comment about not being able to "see" submarines deeper than 20 meters, I can only wonder if the good Admiral has heard of now ancient technology like sonar. Not only would they be easy to find

Are you aware how difficult it is for even the best sonar to locate a submarine that doesn't want to be found?

Didn't think so.

Yes. However, submarines that do not want to be found do not operate in shallow waters. Those submarines do not come from manufacturers who have relied on technology stolen from the USA, UK, Germany and France. More importantly, the submarines won't be filled with hidden Chinese tracking devices.

I agree mostly but don't you think the US and other countries have hidden stuff in the equipment they sell. I don't think that the US is anymore honest as China about stuff like this. All major powers play dirty US included. I would not be surprised if there are back doors in the stuff they sell too.

Of course, the USA leads the world in espionage.

[fasteddie]

If the gulf of Thailand is only 50 m deep, then there is no sub needed. Purchase patrol boats.

The sea around Singapore is average 40 meters deep but they got 6 subs and 2 more on order they will have 8 subs and Indonesia is aiming for 18 subs

Lets not forget

Singapore = non 3rd world country

Indonesia = huge coastal area

Thailand = 3rd world + small coastal area

We all know the reasons, skimming and ego

Singapore country 1/4 size of Bangkok with very small sea to patrol

Indonesia is emerging market country same as Thailand BTW Indonesia is poorer than Thailand

Indonesia is the top economy in S.E.Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_and_Pacific_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29#Southeast_Asia

[yuv06]

Lets not forget

The sea around Singapore is average 40 meters deep but they got 6 subs and 2 more on order they will have 8 subs and Indonesia is aiming for 18 subs

If the gulf of Thailand is only 50 m deep, then there is no sub needed. Purchase patrol boats.

Singapore = non 3rd world country

Indonesia = huge coastal area

Thailand = 3rd world + small coastal area

We all know the reasons, skimming and ego

Indonesia is emerging market country same as Thailand BTW Indonesia is poorer than Thailand

Indonesia is the top economy in S.E.Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_and_Pacific_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29#Southeast_Asia

I meant GDP per capita data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD

[yuv06]

Another thing I forgot to mention Singapore is in the process of obtaining a helicopter carrier but nobody is going against it? Vietnam is interested in the French Mistral which was not sold to Russia but they have to discuss with Russia first for approval as they don't want to piss Russia off and the west support the purchase??? But when Thailand wants subs everybody is against it?????

[Ricardo]

Another thing I forgot to mention Singapore is in the process of obtaining a helicopter carrier but nobody is going against it? Vietnam is interested in the French Mistral which was not sold to Russia but they have to discuss with Russia first for approval as they don't want to piss Russia off and the west support the purchase??? But when Thailand wants subs everybody is against it?????

This website is for farangs who live in Thailand, or care about Thais & Thailand, not those other countries, as you will be aware. So I would not expect, as you seem to, much opinion about Singapore or Vietnam, and we could care less about attempts to awe those places !

Speaking for myself, I'm not at all against Thailand investing in the RTN to meet its tasks in coastal-defence or fisheries-monitoring/protection tasks, but I just don't think a handful of submarines is the most cost-effective way to do it. You do agree, that value-for-money ought to be a consideration, yes ?

And the article about Sweden's problems with possible Russian intruders, while it was interesting, was mostly just a sales-puff for a product which (you'll agree ?) the RTN weren't asking to buy anyway.

Many farangs have found 'Made in China' to be a sales-tag worth avoiding, that will hopefully change at some point in-the-future, much as 'Made in Japan' once meant 'cheap crap', but nowadays mostly means a reliable well-designed product.

I'm sorry that we don't instantly accept whatever this committee of junior-officers, who may well all have a vested interest in the purchase going-ahead, has recommended. But it is an important & valuable part of our culture, to question what those nominally in-charge tell us, history & experience have taught us the importance of doing so.

The Thai education-system might well benefit, from following this example.

[yuv06]

Another thing I forgot to mention Singapore is in the process of obtaining a helicopter carrier but nobody is going against it? Vietnam is interested in the French Mistral which was not sold to Russia but they have to discuss with Russia first for approval as they don't want to piss Russia off and the west support the purchase??? But when Thailand wants subs everybody is against it?????

This website is for farangs who live in Thailand, or care about Thais & Thailand, not those other countries, as you will be aware. So I would not expect, as you seem to, much opinion about Singapore or Vietnam, and we could care less about attempts to awe those places !

Speaking for myself, I'm not at all against Thailand investing in the RTN to meet its tasks in coastal-defence or fisheries-monitoring/protection tasks, but I just don't think a handful of submarines is the most cost-effective way to do it. You do agree, that value-for-money ought to be a consideration, yes ?

And the article about Sweden's problems with possible Russian intruders, while it was interesting, was mostly just a sales-puff for a product which (you'll agree ?) the RTN weren't asking to buy anyway.

Many farangs have found 'Made in China' to be a sales-tag worth avoiding, that will hopefully change at some point in-the-future, much as 'Made in Japan' once meant 'cheap crap', but nowadays mostly means a reliable well-designed product.

I'm sorry that we don't instantly accept whatever this committee of junior-officers, who may well all have a vested interest in the purchase going-ahead, has recommended. But it is an important & valuable part of our culture, to question what those nominally in-charge tell us, history & experience have taught us the importance of doing so.

The Thai education-system might well benefit, from following this example.

Actually the Thai education system receives one of the highest budget http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/public-spending-on-education-total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

Thai defense budget is 1.5% GDP and as being farangs when Thailand gets invaded you move on to greener pastures while we on the other hand become refugees so there is much more importance for us to keep a capable armed forces! With due respect Thailand purchase is for Thailand security so I would suggest you guys should support it or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!

What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs! Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!

When we don't have a country who cares about the education system???

Edited August 13, 2015 by yuv06

[Ricardo]

Actually the Thai education system receives one of the highest budget http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/public-spending-on-education-total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

Thai defense budget is 1.5% GDP and as being farangs when Thailand gets invaded you move on to greener pastures while we on the other hand become refugees so there is much more importance for us to keep a capable armed forces! With due respect Thailand purchase is for Thailand security so I would suggest you guys should support it or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!

What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs! Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!

When we don't have a country who cares about the education system???

"or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!"

I cannot understand why you might be afraid of any such thing, Thailand can work within ASEAN to maintain friendly relations with neighbouring countries, as it has a unique geographical position which makes it essential to the future economic-growth in the region.

I am fully confident that Thai diplomacy can deliver on that advantage. Nobody is laughing at, or talking of slapping around, this wonderful country.

"Thailand purchase is for Thailand security"

Which is why it is important not to waste the money, as I believe the proposal for submarines does, if "Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!" , then invest in appropriate weapons for the air-force, or for the RTN's surface-ships. Things like sonar-buoys or homing-torpedoes launched by helicopters or patrol-boats ? And remember to change the batteries powering the buoys every year or so.

"What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs!"

Do you really think that Thailand could ever stand against the full military might of the USA, in the unlikely event, that it was used ?

The threat (if any) is from the regional super-power, not from across the Pacific, there is absolutely no reason why the USA would wish to blockade Thailand, unless it had been occupied by that regional super-power, and even then the main action would surely be direct rather than against occupied-Thailand.

You might as well be trying to justify the purchase of nuclear-weapons and delivery-systems, to 'defend' or 'shock and awe' against what would surely have become a nuclear war, by that stage.

Then you won't have a country, and we all won't have a world, on which it's possible to live.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Ricardo

[yuv06]

Actually the Thai education system receives one of the highest budget http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/public-spending-on-education-total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

Thai defense budget is 1.5% GDP and as being farangs when Thailand gets invaded you move on to greener pastures while we on the other hand become refugees so there is much more importance for us to keep a capable armed forces! With due respect Thailand purchase is for Thailand security so I would suggest you guys should support it or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!

What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs! Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!

When we don't have a country who cares about the education system???

"or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!"

I cannot understand why you might be afraid of any such thing, Thailand can work within ASEAN to maintain friendly relations with neighbouring countries, as it has a unique geographical position which makes it essential to the future economic-growth in the region.

I am fully confident that Thai diplomacy can deliver on that advantage. Nobody is laughing at, or talking of slapping around, this wonderful country.

"Thailand purchase is for Thailand security"

Which is why it is important not to waste the money, as I believe the proposal for submarines does, if "Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!" , then invest in appropriate weapons for the air-force, or for the RTN's surface-ships. Things like sonar-buoys or homing-torpedoes launched by helicopters or patrol-boats ? And remember to change the batteries powering the buoys every year or so.

"What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs!"

Do you really think that Thailand could ever stand against the full military might of the USA, in the unlikely event, that it was used ?

The threat (if any) is from the regional super-power, not from across the Pacific, there is absolutely no reason why the USA would wish to blockade Thailand, unless it had been occupied by that regional super-power, and even then the main action would surely be direct rather than against occupied-Thailand.

You might as well be trying to justify the purchase of nuclear-weapons and delivery-systems, to 'defend' or 'shock and awe' against what would surely have become a nuclear war, by that stage.

Then you won't have a country, and we all won't have a world, on which it's possible to live.

How much are those equipment???? I gave an estimate before we need much more than USD1billion to have an effective anti sub fleet and what is it to you??

[yuv06]

Actually the Thai education system receives one of the highest budget http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/public-spending-on-education-total-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

Thai defense budget is 1.5% GDP and as being farangs when Thailand gets invaded you move on to greener pastures while we on the other hand become refugees so there is much more importance for us to keep a capable armed forces! With due respect Thailand purchase is for Thailand security so I would suggest you guys should support it or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!

What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs! Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!

When we don't have a country who cares about the education system???

"or we will be the laughing stock of this region and will be slapped around by smaller countries!"

I cannot understand why you might be afraid of any such thing, Thailand can work within ASEAN to maintain friendly relations with neighbouring countries, as it has a unique geographical position which makes it essential to the future economic-growth in the region.

I am fully confident that Thai diplomacy can deliver on that advantage. Nobody is laughing at, or talking of slapping around, this wonderful country.

"Thailand purchase is for Thailand security"

Which is why it is important not to waste the money, as I believe the proposal for submarines does, if "Our AF has the ability to take out surface ships but cannot take out subs!" , then invest in appropriate weapons for the air-force, or for the RTN's surface-ships. Things like sonar-buoys or homing-torpedoes launched by helicopters or patrol-boats ? And remember to change the batteries powering the buoys every year or so.

"What happens if one day we have a fall out with the USA??? USA and their sidekick Singapore might deploy subs to block the Gulf of Thailand! Our surface fleet is vulnerable to satellite and subs!"

Do you really think that Thailand could ever stand against the full military might of the USA, in the unlikely event, that it was used ?

The threat (if any) is from the regional super-power, not from across the Pacific, there is absolutely no reason why the USA would wish to blockade Thailand, unless it had been occupied by that regional super-power, and even then the main action would surely be direct rather than against occupied-Thailand.

You might as well be trying to justify the purchase of nuclear-weapons and delivery-systems, to 'defend' or 'shock and awe' against what would surely have become a nuclear war, by that stage.

Then you won't have a country, and we all won't have a world, on which it's possible to live.

How much are those equipment???? I gave an estimate before we need much more than USD1billion to have an effective anti sub fleet and what is it to you??

Can you guarantee we will not have a conflict? That is why we have the armed forces and BTW a sub is a very effective weapon against superpowers and it is the sub that they fear most that is why all you farang are against it!

[Ricardo]

Can you guarantee we will not have a conflict? That is why we have the armed forces and BTW a sub is a very effective weapon against superpowers and it is the sub that they fear most that is why all you farang are against it!

You're assuming that "all you farang" would take the side of the superpowers, actually those of us who live here & pay taxes here & have Thai-relatives might not do that, we love Thailand too !

Tone down your paranoia and nationalism, use your education and experience of the world, and try to take a more balanced view.

The USA is not about to go to war with Thailand, and three Chinese-built non-nuclear submarines wouldn't prevent it, if they were !

[yuv06]

Can you guarantee we will not have a conflict? That is why we have the armed forces and BTW a sub is a very effective weapon against superpowers and it is the sub that they fear most that is why all you farang are against it!

You're assuming that "all you farang" would take the side of the superpowers, actually those of us who live here & pay taxes here & have Thai-relatives might not do that, we love Thailand too !

Tone down your paranoia and nationalism, use your education and experience of the world, and try to take a more balanced view.

The USA is not about to go to war with Thailand, and three Chinese-built non-nuclear submarines wouldn't prevent it, if they were !

Well hate to disappoint you but when it comes to a conflict your love for this country can't do anything only weapons talk! 3 is the beginning and I tell you 3 is better than non as these subs will have them guessing especially when they can sink a surface ship from 200 km away so if they sent in ship they will have to think twice right now they don't have to think at all because they can see all our ships!

[Ricardo]

Indian has an agreement with Russia but do you see India spending less??? No they are one of the biggest arms purchaser and why is that?? For security how can one just be independent on another all the time? The Indians have their own security issues with neighbors! Same as Thailand.

In 2001 Thai and Burma had a serious border conflict the Burmese deployed 3 to 4 regiments (a regiment usually comprise 1,600 to 2,000 men) including tanks and in one incident Thai tanks exchanged fire with the Burmese tanks luckily the Thai AF is superior to the Burmese AF so Thai had the upper hand in the fighting as Thai AF flew 70 sorties dropping Laser guided bombs on Burmese fire base positions inside Burma with impunity as the Burmese did not dare deploy their AF against the Thai AF. The Thai Armed forces mobilized the 3rd Army as announced to the public, but in actual fact the 1st and 2nd Armies were also mobilized to the entire stretch of the Thai Burmese border! Troop movement of the 1st and 2nd army were done at night and put on tour buses to disguise there movement. Luckily for Thailand that we had a strong armed forces the Burmese knew that they will not be able to go up against Thailand in full blown conflict that the issue was finally resolve.

So please go and worry about your own country and let the Thais take care of their own defense issues!

I wish you every success in your next border-conflict with Burma, and am now convinced by your logic, that three Chinese submarines (one or even two tied-up in Sattahip) will be crucial in winning that war.

Also Thailand needs to get into an arms-race with the USA, just in case.

[yuv06]

Indian has an agreement with Russia but do you see India spending less??? No they are one of the biggest arms purchaser and why is that?? For security how can one just be independent on another all the time? The Indians have their own security issues with neighbors! Same as Thailand.

In 2001 Thai and Burma had a serious border conflict the Burmese deployed 3 to 4 regiments (a regiment usually comprise 1,600 to 2,000 men) including tanks and in one incident Thai tanks exchanged fire with the Burmese tanks luckily the Thai AF is superior to the Burmese AF so Thai had the upper hand in the fighting as Thai AF flew 70 sorties dropping Laser guided bombs on Burmese fire base positions inside Burma with impunity as the Burmese did not dare deploy their AF against the Thai AF. The Thai Armed forces mobilized the 3rd Army as announced to the public, but in actual fact the 1st and 2nd Armies were also mobilized to the entire stretch of the Thai Burmese border! Troop movement of the 1st and 2nd army were done at night and put on tour buses to disguise there movement. Luckily for Thailand that we had a strong armed forces the Burmese knew that they will not be able to go up against Thailand in full blown conflict that the issue was finally resolve.

So please go and worry about your own country and let the Thais take care of their own defense issues!

I wish you every success in your next border-conflict with Burma, and am now convinced by your logic, that three Chinese submarines (one or even two tied-up in Sattahip) will be crucial in winning that war.

Also Thailand needs to get into an arms-race with the USA, just in case.

It is not an arms race with the USA it is what they need to defend the country when the shooting starts the blood and guts will be from Thais they need what will reduce the loss of life or to be able to force a negotiation as I have stated we are not the first but the 5th country to have (want to acquire) subs and the 3rd country that will have subs but not involved in the China dispute. Myanmar and Philippines are also have their eyes on them and that would leave Thailand the only country without subs! Wouldn't it be strange everybody acquired subs except us? If there are not effective doubt everybody wants them!

[ravip]

Being that I amnot as knowledgeable as many TV members thus my thoughts on why the subs are needed is a little different,than the well versed person. I

think they need them to support Chins in the south seas problem that is unfolding. Thailands location would help China a lot if things came to blows. And subs bought from China and used to help China could give Thailand a lot of power, in the asian world.

You may be partly right, but I also think that Thailand does not trust the west so much as before we have to remember Thailand kicked out the USA in the 80s if I recall correctly. Since than it seems Thailand has been edging more towards China as seen by acquiring Chinese ships in the 90s onward seems to acquire weapons more from Europe and Asia than USA such as the 2 new Frigates from South Korea it seems lately they are interested in obtaining SAM S300 or S400 from Russia all these move would negate USA power to control Thailand. I won't be surprised if the next batch of fighter jets were Russian Sukhoi SU30s or SU35s but adapted with Israeli and western avionics and Saab data link, that would be really great as it provides top notch air-to-air missiles from Russia and combined with top notch western avionics and deep strike capability.

Also recently a Yuan class submarine slipped through the Straits of Malacca unnoticed until it popped up in Pakistan http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/china-submarine-hainan-island-south-china-sea-beijing-pakistan-rk-dhowan/1/442280.html

Very few countries trust the USA Today.

Would that surprise anyone?

[ravip]

If the Gulf of Thailand was blocked it wouldn't be by maylasia Singapore etc. It would only be China. And what do you think the rest of the world would do. USA ,UK etc would be all over this. And if I was a attacking power I would take out the sub base in the first hour and that would be the end of that. With technology as it is today if the subs were at sea they would be taken out by aircraft in one way or another. Surface ships/ fast attack hardware is what's needed. The subs are a accident going to happen ! Not waiting to happen. If they get them and I think they probably will I have said before I give the first one under 1 year before an serious incident happens. Either grounding or needing crew rescued. Which is another issue. Oh well sit back and watch the fun. Sad if some crew lose there lives though!

Are you trying to be funny? China?? It is more likely to be the USA and her sidekick friends like Singapore, UK, Australia! Who is currently playing politics with Thailand???? This clearly shows your lack of knowledge for the past 50 years in this region or you must have been reading too much western MSM. China has stuck with Thailand and aided Thailand during the financial crisis unlike the west who imposed harsh measures through their puppet IMF so they could get their greedy hands on Thai assets! China on the other hand providing credits, loans, extensions, that allowed Thailand to maintain some vital economic assets! They aided us during the Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia and even attacked Northern Vietnam to put pressure on Vietnam when Thai and Vietnamese had serious escalation in fighting along the Thai - Cambodian border.

Why is everybody so scared the Thailand acquire submarines??? It is because it is a very effective weapon even against superpowers! Because read link http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/sweden-has-a-sub-thats-so-deadly-the-us-navy-hired-it-t-1649695984

So surface ships fast attack hardware???? Why??? Subs are better at sub killing!!! How much is all these hardware going to cost?? Let me run the figures for you:

1. P8 - USD250 million per plane - lets say we need 6 USD1.5 billion

2. Helicopter carriers USD1.5 billion per ship - lets say we need 2 USD3 billion and another USD1.5 billion for anti-submarine helicopters

3. Advanced frigates which Thailand has already ordered 2 from South Korea at USD500 a piece - so we would need more lets say 6 more USD3 billion

Total USD9 billion??? against lets say total 9 subs USD3 billion

Any serious incident as you claim within 1 year won't happen by China but it might happen with the USA given their past records of war mongering and currently trying to instigate a war with Russia.

Excellant! Nothing can be more truer than the comparison above between China and USA.

Brilliant indeed.

Could anyone deny it?

[fasteddie]

Another thing I forgot to mention Singapore is in the process of obtaining a helicopter carrier but nobody is going against it? Vietnam is interested in the French Mistral which was not sold to Russia but they have to discuss with Russia first for approval as they don't want to piss Russia off and the west support the purchase??? But when Thailand wants subs everybody is against it?????

This website is for farangs who live in Thailand, or care about Thais & Thailand, not those other countries, as you will be aware. So I would not expect, as you seem to, much opinion about Singapore or Vietnam, and we could care less about attempts to awe those places !

Speaking for myself, I'm not at all against Thailand investing in the RTN to meet its tasks in coastal-defence or fisheries-monitoring/protection tasks, but I just don't think a handful of submarines is the most cost-effective way to do it. You do agree, that value-for-money ought to be a consideration, yes ?

And the article about Sweden's problems with possible Russian intruders, while it was interesting, was mostly just a sales-puff for a product which (you'll agree ?) the RTN weren't asking to buy anyway.

Many farangs have found 'Made in China' to be a sales-tag worth avoiding, that will hopefully change at some point in-the-future, much as 'Made in Japan' once meant 'cheap crap', but nowadays mostly means a reliable well-designed product.

I'm sorry that we don't instantly accept whatever this committee of junior-officers, who may well all have a vested interest in the purchase going-ahead, has recommended. But it is an important & valuable part of our culture, to question what those nominally in-charge tell us, history & experience have taught us the importance of doing so.

The Thai education-system might well benefit, from following this example.

"Many farangs have found 'Made in China' to be a sales-tag worth avoiding"

i phone?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[yuv06]

US supercarrier ‘sunk’ by French submarine in wargames http://www.news.com.au/world/us-supercarrier-sunk-by-french-submarine-in-wargames/story-fndir2ev-1227250666936

Edited August 14, 2015 by yuv06

[silverado]

36 billions baths ? can imagine the huge bribes to share between the bigwigs....

[yuv06]

36 billions baths ? can imagine the huge bribes to share between the bigwigs....

So Thailand don't need to buy weapons to defend itself? BTW I hardly think there are any bribes as it is very cheap!

So now the arguments keep moving along from the shallow Gulf to buying anti-submarine assets which is much more expensive and is exclusively used as anti-submarine role only to bribery???? When is it going to stop???? Why is Thailand purchase completely different than Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia???? Why is there so much fuss????? Why is there so many foreigners interfering with Thailand defense issue???????

It is alright to spend huge sums on anti-submarine assets! Why is that??? Than to buy subs which in itself is also an anti-submarine asset but also could act as an attack sub? It also levels the playing field that a small navy has against superpower! So is that the real issue??????

Edited August 14, 2015 by yuv06

[puukao]

I remember when I convinced all the superpowers to give up their military and just enjoy peace....

i then attacked when they were all on pot and rolling around with butterflies!!!!

Now i go and charge 100 baht a person to tell them money is not everything!!!!

let me find the navy document...

water....

interesting...

[yuv06]

Well the Song Class submarine incident a couple years ago opened some eyes didn't it! A conventional Chinese sub with no AIP could shadow the might US carrier force and do simulated torpedo runs it must have sank the carrier 20 times including the nuclear subs guarding the carrier before they surfaced to show themselves because they were laughing so much they ran out of air so they had to surface and open the hatch to get some air!

[Diplomatico]

Looks like they'll be buying the first of three submarines this year:

"The Royal Thai Navy will buy its first submarine from China in the coming fiscal year, Defence Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan said yesterday.

Prawit, who is also deputy prime minister overseeing security affairs, said the Navy planned to buy three submarines at Bt12 billion each. "The budget is not too high as payments can be made over a period of about 10 years," he said.

Prawit said China's submarine technology was good and modern, playing down criticism of the move. He said the Navy had studied all details. "It first presented its plan in 2008 or 2009."

Asked why the Navy would want submarines since it had abolished the submarine division, Prawit said the country needed them to protect its massive marine resources in the Andaman Sea.

"Neighbouring countries all have submarines. Myanmar has 10," he said."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Thailand-set-to-get-first-Chinese-submarine-30289603.html