Requirement Over 60 with contract and working at a University

[Rhys]

Aloha Resident THAI Educational Employment Experts..

I was chatting with a bud, and I heard this one... So immediately, I came to the source of wisdom the source of all that is good and bad on opinion and suggestions.. ASK TV Brothers and Sisters...

The Question:

After 60, and if your university deems your services (English Teaching and ADM Set) is essential you are then give a series of 1 year contracts, and your salary is reduced?

Comments..

Where to look for the regulation?

Each University is different?

Bias and Discrimination for the NEST..

Have at it..

[SheungWan]

The first question is whether the sequential contracts are in effect the same job, Contract law should indicate that say if someone has their F/T contract terminated but then rehired at the same level with 50%+ of the original responsibilities continuing then the rate should not decrease. This is particularly important where a F/T job is replaced by a P/T one. The other issue is one where sufficient number of sequential years service with essentially the same contract tick up, then the staff member can claim that de facto they are F/T workers and claim that status. I have seen that happen and succeed, but with the approval of the department concerned and HRM. I am not sure what is the significance of the age 60 in the original story.

[Stradavarius37]

At Mahidol University this is true. You can work after age 60 but can no longer be eligible for long term contacts. I think the salary would depend on the faculty/university doing the issuing. At my faculty salary is not dropped because of age.

[Rhys]

The first question is whether the sequential contracts are in effect the same job, Contract law should indicate that say if someone has their F/T contract terminated but then rehired at the same level with 50%+ of the original responsibilities continuing then the rate should not decrease. This is particularly important where a F/T job is replaced by a P/T one. The other issue is one where sufficient number of sequential years service with essentially the same contract tick up, then the staff member can claim that de facto they are F/T workers and claim that status. I have seen that happen and succeed, but with the approval of the department concerned and HRM. I am not sure what is the significance of the age 60 in the original story.

Mr. Sage 1,

Answer, yes, the same position.. all the way with sequential contracts.. 2, 4, 4 years contracts.... As you know in Thailand.. 60 is the retirement age.. the relevance is that in a few months.. when the contract ends and 60 kicks in ...the games begin... Forget contract law.. You know as well as I "Thai ADM is going to do what every they are going to do to save a baht.

Just looking for the best option and preparing for the egress.

Cheers Mate.

[Rhys]

At Mahidol University this is true. You can work after age 60 but can no longer be eligible for long term contacts. I think the salary would depend on the faculty/university doing the issuing. At my faculty salary is not dropped because of age.

Agreed... and thanks for the confirmation up in BKK. You forgot the one other department that has their foot in here as well, the personnel folks who have the best intentions but are following rules that do not make sense... Does not matter what the Dean or the Director of Academic Affairs say, personnel is the one doing the paper work... I learned that one the hard way.

When the Poffice was pressed again for the rationale for the reduction in salary after 60 and contract ends, the we will get back to you because that person is not here to give your the answer. Sadly, I will be the first to experience this protocol.

Essential, starting a new contract they can offer anything they please... Oh of course, they will count in experience... However, when one is at the high end of the pay scale... some Thais become.. ..... The pay scale was earned based on merit and numerous yearly increases...

Cheers Mate.

[SheungWan]

The first question is whether the sequential contracts are in effect the same job, Contract law should indicate that say if someone has their F/T contract terminated but then rehired at the same level with 50%+ of the original responsibilities continuing then the rate should not decrease. This is particularly important where a F/T job is replaced by a P/T one. The other issue is one where sufficient number of sequential years service with essentially the same contract tick up, then the staff member can claim that de facto they are F/T workers and claim that status. I have seen that happen and succeed, but with the approval of the department concerned and HRM. I am not sure what is the significance of the age 60 in the original story.

Mr. Sage 1,

Answer, yes, the same position.. all the way with sequential contracts.. 2, 4, 4 years contracts.... As you know in Thailand.. 60 is the retirement age.. the relevance is that in a few months.. when the contract ends and 60 kicks in ...the games begin... Forget contract law.. You know as well as I "Thai ADM is going to do what every they are going to do to save a baht.

Just looking for the best option and preparing for the egress.

Cheers Mate.

If the job has effectively been to date a series of term contracts which have never been consolidated into tenure then I still have difficulty understanding what is the significance of the age 60. If 60 is the retirement age then why are they employing someone over the age of 60? In the UK the significance of age 60 is that one can collect pension without actuarial reduction, but the actual compulsory retirement age is/was 65. Are you saying that with the next contract the uni wants to give you they just want to offer a reduced rate because you are 60 and for no other reason, or is that just your supposition? ie in reality they just want to reduce the rate they offer you for the next contract? Anyway, how easily replaceable are you IYHO? If you can easily be replaced by A.N.Other 20 years old then you have your answer.

[Rhys]

The first question is whether the sequential contracts are in effect the same job, Contract law should indicate that say if someone has their F/T contract terminated but then rehired at the same level with 50%+ of the original responsibilities continuing then the rate should not decrease. This is particularly important where a F/T job is replaced by a P/T one. The other issue is one where sufficient number of sequential years service with essentially the same contract tick up, then the staff member can claim that de facto they are F/T workers and claim that status. I have seen that happen and succeed, but with the approval of the department concerned and HRM. I am not sure what is the significance of the age 60 in the original story.

Mr. Sage 1,

Answer, yes, the same position.. all the way with sequential contracts.. 2, 4, 4 years contracts.... As you know in Thailand.. 60 is the retirement age.. the relevance is that in a few months.. when the contract ends and 60 kicks in ...the games begin... Forget contract law.. You know as well as I "Thai ADM is going to do what every they are going to do to save a baht.

Just looking for the best option and preparing for the egress.

Cheers Mate.

If the job has effectively been to date a series of term contracts which have never been consolidated into tenure then I still have difficulty understanding what is the significance of the age 60. If 60 is the retirement age then why are they employing someone over the age of 60? In the UK the significance of age 60 is that one can collect pension without actuarial reduction, but the actual compulsory retirement age is/was 65. Are you saying that with the next contract the uni wants to give you they just want to offer a reduced rate because you are 60 and for no other reason, or is that just your supposition? ie in reality they just want to reduce the rate they offer you for the next contract? Anyway, how easily replaceable are you IYHO? If you can easily be replaced by A.N.Other 20 years old then you have your answer.

Thanks for the responses.... appreciate it.

First, as a contractual, NEST, we do not have tenure in Thailand. Your assessment of reality is spot on.. when the next contract time comes along, and if they deem my services are required.. of course, they are going to see how much lower they can pay... that is the call. The ADM folks here are not answering directly.

From other posts and conversations, some universities do this and some do not.. Luck of the draw.

In a particulary situation, there is only one NEST, teaching at the university who will turn 60 next year. The NEST was indirectly informed by personnel of the reduction in salary... (That was the shock, I had never heard of that one before) Thus as an NEST over 60 working in Thailand, we cannot compare to the UK or USA retirement protocols, especially at this place.

Generally for Thais, at this place, that turn 60 they leave. However, if.. the Thai instructor performed ADM duties that were deemed essential they were kept on until 65..on a series of contracts (1-3 years) their call.

.

Everyone is replaceable.. you know that. It is economics.. if your salary will accomodate 2 Thai MA teachers, guess who wins.

What I am trying to find is the regulation, rule, procedure in Thai.. for the Contractual Employee over 60, for contract renewal and this business about salary reduction.

Thanks for the insights.

The upshot of all this.. the place is stil the best option in the area.. and with 10 years in.. a certain comfort level.. in salary, working, and living has been attained.

Cheers Mate

[SheungWan]

The first question is whether the sequential contracts are in effect the same job, Contract law should indicate that say if someone has their F/T contract terminated but then rehired at the same level with 50%+ of the original responsibilities continuing then the rate should not decrease. This is particularly important where a F/T job is replaced by a P/T one. The other issue is one where sufficient number of sequential years service with essentially the same contract tick up, then the staff member can claim that de facto they are F/T workers and claim that status. I have seen that happen and succeed, but with the approval of the department concerned and HRM. I am not sure what is the significance of the age 60 in the original story.

Mr. Sage 1,

Answer, yes, the same position.. all the way with sequential contracts.. 2, 4, 4 years contracts.... As you know in Thailand.. 60 is the retirement age.. the relevance is that in a few months.. when the contract ends and 60 kicks in ...the games begin... Forget contract law.. You know as well as I "Thai ADM is going to do what every they are going to do to save a baht.

Just looking for the best option and preparing for the egress.

Cheers Mate.

If the job has effectively been to date a series of term contracts which have never been consolidated into tenure then I still have difficulty understanding what is the significance of the age 60. If 60 is the retirement age then why are they employing someone over the age of 60? In the UK the significance of age 60 is that one can collect pension without actuarial reduction, but the actual compulsory retirement age is/was 65. Are you saying that with the next contract the uni wants to give you they just want to offer a reduced rate because you are 60 and for no other reason, or is that just your supposition? ie in reality they just want to reduce the rate they offer you for the next contract? Anyway, how easily replaceable are you IYHO? If you can easily be replaced by A.N.Other 20 years old then you have your answer.

Thanks for the responses.... appreciate it.

First, as a contractual, NEST, we do not have tenure in Thailand. Your assessment of reality is spot on.. when the next contract time comes along, and if they deem my services are required.. of course, they are going to see how much lower they can pay... that is the call. The ADM folks here are not answering directly.

From other posts and conversations, some universities do this and some do not.. Luck of the draw.

In a particulary situation, there is only one NEST, teaching at the university who will turn 60 next year. The NEST was indirectly informed by personnel of the reduction in salary... (That was the shock, I had never heard of that one before) Thus as an NEST over 60 working in Thailand, we cannot compare to the UK or USA retirement protocols, especially at this place.

Generally for Thais, at this place, that turn 60 they leave. However, if.. the Thai instructor performed ADM duties that were deemed essential they were kept on until 65..on a series of contracts (1-3 years) their call.

.

Everyone is replaceable.. you know that. It is economics.. if your salary will accomodate 2 Thai MA teachers, guess who wins.

What I am trying to find is the regulation, rule, procedure in Thai.. for the Contractual Employee over 60, for contract renewal and this business about salary reduction.

Thanks for the insights.

The upshot of all this.. the place is stil the best option in the area.. and with 10 years in.. a certain comfort level.. in salary, working, and living has been attained.

Cheers Mate

Some further observations: OK, it would appear from your comments that over the age of 60 anybody on contracts is downgraded in pay if kept on. So nothing personal. In fact it might be taken as a compliment that the uni wishes to retain your services through the 60 bar. I am going to take a stab at your search issue. If say you were 55 and the uni was offering you a new contract then they would be remiss at offering you a lesser salary. However, those over the age of 60 may be in some special category designed by the uni and not properly covered by employment law. If this is the case then anybody making waves is out of the door pronto. The question now comes back to what is the percentage reduction in salary you are being offered. Such is life for colleagues on P/T contracts: last in and first out.

[Rhys]

Dear Sage 1..

Everyone is replaceable...

Thanks for the insights.

Cheers Mate..

On to another chapter...in Thailand.