Politicking in the garb of reform

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Politicking in the garb of reform
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Hiding behind the facade of a foundation and assuming the moral high ground won't take Suthep too far

A political machine is in the making and to call it anything else would be tantamount to misleading the Thai public.

Yes, we are talking about the recently launched People's Democratic Reform Foundation (PDRF) by former protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, who is also a former deputy leader of the Democrat Party.

Alongkorn Polabutr, a former member of the Democrat Party and a current member of the National Reform Council (NRC), called the PDRF a "positive sign" for the national reform process.

"They have approaches that are in accordance with the blueprint of the NRC, especially on political reform," said Alongkorn, who suggested that the pro-Thaksin Shinawatra red shirts, United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), should come up with a similar approach that is in the interests of democracy.

Weng Tojirakarn, a red-shirt figure and a former UDD leader, was right to say that one cannot overlook the political underpinning of Suthep's latest move.

"He can say it is a foundation or whatever he wants. But it's a political organisation in camouflage," Weng said.

Ekkachai Srivilas, an NRC member from the King Prachadhipok Institute (KPI), made similar remarks about the need to level the playing field. He said if the National Council for Peace and Order permits Suthep to do this, then they should allow others to do the same.

But regardless of what one calls it, the foundation is the making of a political machine that even has a foreign affairs component to it.

Former foreign minister Kasit Piromya, the designated foreign affairs chief of this foundation, has already got off the starting blocks and called on the government to fire all its economic ministers. He said their work has been a "complete failure".

"It's just empty talk and no concrete achievements," Kasit said.

Kasit has suggested that the junta consult with former prime ministers about running the country. Well, that pretty much boils down to the Democrat camp or the Thaksin camp and it doesn't take a genius to figure out who Kasit could be leaning towards.

The merits of Suthep's new political machine need to be seriously questioned. If he is stressing reform and is not prepared to be at loggerheads with the National Reform Council and the constitution drafters, then what is he really up to?

Perhaps it's just another ploy by the junta to get somebody else to clean up its own mess - like the government's non-performing economic team that Kasit wasted no time in attacking.

If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge.

But hiding behind some facade and assuming a moral high ground won't get him very far on anything.

The problem with political action groups in this country is that no one is willing to call a spade a spade. They hide behind words like democracy, accountability, and rule of law and yearn for the return of these ideas as if Thailand had them to begin with.

Moreover, Suthep is using words like "reform", as if it is something that can come about overnight. He doesn't seem to understand that the process could take decades and probably even a generation to achieve.

We talk about returning to democracy as if we ever had one - that's if our understanding of democracy is as something more than just the holding of a general election.

Our independent institutions, our checks and balances, our rule of law, our accountability never took roots and have never been permitted to flourish without political interference.

We had moments in history, like the time when the university students stood up the military dictatorship in 1973 and the People's Constitution in 1997 as examples. But those were just moments.

So, excuse us when we are sceptical about the likes of Suthep who come out of the blue and talk about the need for democracy and accountability.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Politicking-in-the-garb-of-reform-30265691.html

-- The Nation 2015-08-02

[JAG]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Edited August 2, 2015 by JAG

[Charlie Croker]

I agree with Jag, he is just the other side of the same coin. He represents the polemic antithesis of the extremes of politics in this country.

Last week he announced he is out of politics and wanted to dedicate his time to helping the country via a 'reform' organisation. Within one day of leaving the monastery he has Kasit joining the reform ticket and making inflammatory statements about the current state of the economy- which Suthep personally helped derail last year, along with the other extremis of politics Thaksin and his merry troup of puppets.

There is a big difference between Suthep and Thaksin.

Thaksin has more supporters and more money.

They are equally transparent in imagining a power vacuum could be filled by there humongous egos and equally vain enough to think that anyone who has been paying attention can't see them coming a mile away.

Suthep should have stayed in the saffron. He is doing more good for the country sitting in the monastery losing weight and keeping shtuum

[NongKhaiKid]

You are right about the transparency aspect and Thais are not as clever as they think they are so Suthep will never believe everyone can see through his pathetic ' I'm now into reform not politics ' pitch.

[aussieinthailand]

The same outcome this time as the last time,

The people that will take the government are waiting patiently as their place has been guaranteed just as it was last time.

Then another three years will pass and forced elections and the people will choose who they want to lead the country, and then another three years and protests the theft of the peoples government and round and round and round we go again.

Coup.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Einstein.

[robblok]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

[bamnutsak]

PDRF completely different than the PDRC, any fool can see the difference. One was a "Committee", the other is a "Forum".

[MZurf]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

[robblok]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

True.. as long as corruption is so lucrative there is no hope for this country. Being in power is just to profitable.

[Tatsujin]

Promises, oaths, giving your word etc ... all obviously are not meant to be taken seriously when dealing with Thai's it seems.

[Tatsujin]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

True.. as long as corruption is so lucrative there is no hope for this country. Being in power is just to profitable.

That could all be said about the UK and USA, those bastions of free speech, tolerance and democracy ... where everyone involved in politics is corrupt in some way, shape or form ... although on the whole they are a lot better at hiding it.

[MZurf]

Suthep should stay out of politics and so should YL and the other Shins. That would at least help the country forward. I doubt it will happen.

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

True.. as long as corruption is so lucrative there is no hope for this country. Being in power is just to profitable.

That could all be said about the UK and USA, those bastions of free speech, tolerance and democracy ... where everyone involved in politics is corrupt in some way, shape or form ... although on the whole they are a lot better at hiding it.

That's plainly not true (said very politely).

[robblok]

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

True.. as long as corruption is so lucrative there is no hope for this country. Being in power is just to profitable.

That could all be said about the UK and USA, those bastions of free speech, tolerance and democracy ... where everyone involved in politics is corrupt in some way, shape or form ... although on the whole they are a lot better at hiding it.

Don't agree.. where I come from the laws are quite clear and if someone is caught he gets punished. Just mixing of business and politics is frowned upon. Quite a few cases prosecuted. Besides the persons in The Netherlands who are in politics are usually quite bright (yes on both sides) and could make much more money in business. (yes always some exceptions)

[halloween]

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

I would have thought rooting out corruption at the top was serious reform.

[MZurf]

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

I would have thought rooting out corruption at the top was serious reform.

Are you saying this is happening today???

[halloween]

"If Suthep has ideas on how this country should be run, then he should come out and spell it out to the people and let them be the judge."

Since Suthep's ideas on how the country should be run essentially involve Suthep and his gang running it, irrespective of what the people decide, this suggestion is a "non starter".

That's very democratic of you. Would you say the same of "Thaksin and his gang."

[MZurf]

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

I would have thought rooting out corruption at the top was serious reform.

Are you saying this is happening today???

Are you?

[chainarong]

Reform, as has been stated is not around the corner and never has been , Thailand has no blueprint to move forward , it has the same old crew manning the lifeboats , the Junta has not changed the deck chairs, the same divisions exist in the general population , on the come back trail Suthep fools no - one least of all the red shirts , Suthep coming back into the equation will open old wounds , nothing will be achieved , the divide in Thailand hasn't been addressed and anyone who thinks it has is delusional , what a waste of time and effort to achieve nothing but the sameness of 2013.

[lildragon]

Even the nation are calling this into question. A blind man can see what is going on here.

[MZurf]

Completely agree, but unfortunately the "rewards" are just too great for those in power. Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible.

I would have thought rooting out corruption at the top was serious reform.

Are you saying this is happening today???

Are you?

Didn't think so..

[Just1Voice]

Suthep coming back like this is only going to cause anger, resentment and outrage on the part of the reds. People have said that Thaksin was a man who divided the country, and that is true to some extent, but Suthep is, and will be, a man who*s hatred for the common man is well known, and his actions will divide this country even more.

Nothing good for the Thai people can come of this.

[halloween]

I would have thought rooting out corruption at the top was serious reform.

Are you saying this is happening today???

Are you?

Didn't think so..

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

[jcisco]

Well it is high time the other people who would oppose the influence of suthep get their act together. The country is desperate for politicians that can and do represent the people and have a moral compass and a backbone to do the right thing.

There just isn't any policy on the table anywhere from anyone at this point in time and it is a wonder that large parts of the population default to prior champions. I'm sure serious reform could be done by either the junta or a elected government of either persuasion (ie source of supreme power) it just lacks either the will, skill or desire to break from "tradition".

Is Suthep the best choice from the talent pool, is there no one else that can fill the role.... cause some how I don't think he is rolling independent. Scary if he is..

[candide]

Suthep coming back like this is only going to cause anger, resentment and outrage on the part of the reds. People have said that Thaksin was a man who divided the country, and that is true to some extent, but Suthep is, and will be, a man who*s hatred for the common man is well known, and his actions will divide this country even more.

Nothing good for the Thai people can come of this.

And who will benefit from political divide by, hmmm let's imagine, remain in power?

[Fat Haggis]

I would have thought rooting out corruption at the top was serious reform.

Are you saying this is happening today???

Are you?

Didn't think so..

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

Would you also include 3rd party payments to serving members of the armed Forces, or is it aimed solely at "politicians" ?

[MZurf]

Are you saying this is happening today???

Are you?

Didn't think so..

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

So in your definition of the term "top" does it include or exclude the PM and his ministers? In your parallel universe I guess Gen P didn't warn off anyone trying to look into his finances.

Unbelievable. No, par for the course for you.

Edited August 2, 2015 by metisdead
16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[Just1Voice]

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity.

No, everyone talks to themselves. It is when you start answering yourself that insanity comes into play.

[MZurf]

Are you saying this is happening today???

Are you?

Didn't think so..

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

Oh, and by the way; a very smart person once defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Well, a coup has been tried over and over yet you expect a different result this time. Now who is the loco one???

[halloween]

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity.

No, everyone talks to themselves. It is when you start answering yourself that insanity comes into play.

I did notice that as well.

[halloween]

Talking to yourself is a sign of insanity. Sorry if I can't meet your demand for an immediate reply, some of us have other interests.

I was pointing out in the incongruity of your statement. that "Until corruption is rooted out - starting at the top - serious reform is impossible."

In answer to your question, yes, IMHO. Policy to stop MPs accepting 3rd party payments will limit the ability of the very top to control those with the votes. I expect PTP to oppose a major drop in their income.

So in your definition of the term "top" does it include or exclude the PM and his ministers? In your parallel universe I guess Gen P didn't warn off anyone trying to look into his finances.

Unbelievable. No, par for the course for you.

Reform is being made of the electoral and government systems for return to democracy, and of course it refers to the PM and ministers. Who else would it refer to?. The current system is a short term anomaly to allow those reforms to take place.