Submersible 1.5 hp single phase pumps can they reliably pump up a 30 meter hill?

[TravelerEastWest]

Our well is 78 meters deep and about 30 meters below a hill at the top of the farm.

If the submersible 1.5 hp single phase pump in the well can pump water to the top of the hill is that OK - long term?

Or should we add a small pump on the surface of the land near the well head to help push the water up hill so that it won't tire out the submersible pump?

Cost is not a big issue either way - what is important is keeping things simple and keeping downtime to a minimum.

At the top of the hill we will have two sets of water tanks one for the farm about 3,000 liters and another 3,000 liters for drinking and showering water which will use gravity not a pump to go where it needs to go.

Note currently we use single phase but will switch in a few months to 3 phase.

[TravelerEastWest]

I was able to do some research just now and found out that if we don't need speed, the smaller hp pump should be fine and that single phase may work well in Thailand - as in keep things simple.

Premium brands will need very little servicing.

A thick gauge copper wire may be a good idea.

Variable speed pumps have a built in inverter.

Sand and lightning could be issues...

[IMHO]

Just look at the specs - max. head height is always specified.

Edited August 4, 2015 by IMHO

[Naam]

Just look at the specs - max. head height is always specified.

for the calculation the OP should know at which height (in the well) the pump is installed. depth of well is irrelevant.

[Crossy]

Just look at the specs - max. head height is always specified.

for the calculation the OP should know at which height (in the well) the pump is installed. depth of well is irrelevant.

Indeed, also it is important to note that the max head and max flow rates specified are mutually exclusive.

Best bet would be to talk to a specialist pump shop, they should(?) have the knowledge and stock to provide a decent solution.

If his pump is, say, 1/2 way down the bore we're looking at a combined head potentially >70m.

[TravelerEastWest]

I found out that the pump is a Franklin and can easily handle the hill so all is well.

The nice thing about a Franklin is that I can call the American toll free number and get advice in English.

The average life of this pump is 12 to 15 years and will need almost no maintenance.

I will stay with a single phase solution.

I didn't install the pump myself and don't have the detailed specs (or manual) which is why I was posting the questions.

I will try to get a manual which is always a good thing to have.

Edited August 5, 2015 by TravelerEastWest

[ksamuiguy]

Connect a hose to the pump outlet and run a hose pipe up the hill and see if it works. Easiest way with no well or pump data.

[TravelerEastWest]

Connect a hose to the pump outlet and run a hose pipe up the hill and see if it works. Easiest way with no well or pump data.

Thank you - I like common sense easy solutions.

[Pacificperson]

Head is measured from the water surface. It does not matter much if the pump is 2 meters or 10 meters under water.

[ksamuiguy]

Most Deep Well Pumps (submersible pumps 4' diameter can easily pump 70-90 meters.

remember for every 10 meters of water above the pump is 1 bar of pressure so 100 meters is 10 bar of water pressure that needs to be overcome before you get water. If you know the make and model of the pump you can Google the pump, find the curve for your pump.

when ever you buy a water pump you need to look at the pump curve to see if the pump will work for your application.

[mcm991]

A slightly related question ..... if your well is 100m deep ... what depth would you install the pump to?

I always assumed it would go pretty close to 100m down...... is that not correct?

mcm.

[Artisi]

Seems to be a fair bit of conflicting or incorrect information included in this post amongst the good info.

so a quick lesson on wells / pumps / hydraulics.

Wells are normally drilled with some idea of where the water level is, how deep the well needs to be and how deep the pump needs to be installed into the well, this information is usually known by your local well-driller based on local experience.

In a normal free standing water table, the well will be drilled to a pre-determined depth with the pump installed at a depth that will allow the required rate of extraction to be met without running the pump dry.

The water level in a free standing water table well has 2 measurements, 1 is the free standing water level and the 2nd is the draw-down level, this is the level the water in the well casing when the pump is operating at its required flow, this is the important level for calculating the head being imposed on the pump. Assuming the pump setting is correct and the water is extracted at rate is as required (this can be determined with a well pumping test) the head on the pump is then measured from the draw-down level to the highest delivery point ie., maybe the discharge point of your holding tank.

The depth of the pump below draw-down level is meaningless in the head calculation, the total head on the pump is therefore from your draw-down level to the discharge point PLUS all friction losses from pipework, valves, bends etc.

Of course in Thailand the draw-down level is probably never determined with any accuracy as the local well driller will (or should) know what depth to drill to, what depth to install the pump and give you some sort of idea of the flowrate to expect. If this is the case - you could use the pump setting depth as the well draw-down level to calculate the total head from this figure, this will probably result in a total head higher than it will be in practice that will probably give you a bit more flowrate. If you end up over pumping the well (insufficient inflow to the well to keep up to the pump, you will need to add a bit of head to the pump by closing down on a valve in the line somewhere.

In some locations the pump setting will be deeper than required for normal pumping, this is done where the water table can reduce dramatically during any long term drought situation, this does or can result in a few complications, firstly an oversized pump and possibly the over pumping of the well in normal conditions, if this is the case you will need to impose a bit more head on the pump as discussed above, although you might be lucky with no problems and just see a reduced flowrate in any dry period.

Trust this clears -up a few points for anyone interested.