Thai politics: Blind demonisation of opponents doesn't help anybody

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Blind demonisation of opponents doesn't help anybody
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

BANGKOK: -- PEOPLE usually create their own version of reality so they can easily navigate through life and tell the difference between friends and foes, good and evil.

However, when their version of reality becomes too simple, it often gets distorted and people can find themselves lost in a world of their own imagination - a world in which they are unable to connect or empathise with those they have branded as the enemy.

This, unfortunately, is what has been happening in Thailand over the past decade - and doesn't seem to be changing.

Consider the political caricaturing of the red shirts versus the yellow and multi-coloured shirts that has given way to mutual hatred.

Members of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) are - in the most simplistic view of their opponents - gullible, uneducated, naive, easily manipulated, corrupt, anti-monarchist, anti-coup people, who are on the payroll, if not slaves, of Thaksin Shinawatra. Also apparently, the ill-intentioned West is fooling them with its notions of liberal democracy.

This is perhaps why those against the pro-Thaksin and Yingluck Shinawatra camp will go to just about any length to ensure the red shirts are never given a chance to determine who will form future governments again.

Then you have the crude caricaturing of the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and the multi-coloured shirts of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, which morphed recently into the People's Democratic Reform Foundation.

In this simplistic rendering, these people are seen as selfish and arrogant, not to mention supporters of inherent inequality and self-superiority, fearful of losing privileged positions in society and duped by the elite propaganda. They are also considered docile supporters of military dictatorship, while their political inclination is close to what is preached by fascists.

Creating a crude straw man of those who think differently is convenient and offers instant gratification.

This simplistic view, however, does not take into account the complex reality of politics, ensuring that there is never any space for empathy or dialogue.

People seem to forget that reality is far more complicated. For instance, anybody who voices opposition to this coup is immediately branded as a Thaksin or red-shirt supporter. Little notice is taken of the fact that many are against the coup simply because they believe it goes against people's fundamental political rights, and they are fed up with the Army's repeated intervention.

Similarly, not all those who support coups are mindless supporters of military dictatorship. Some say they support this coup for the simple reason that they hate Thaksin - also some people from this very group have openly protested against certain mega-projects being considered by the current military regime.

So, what has happened to the idealism on both sides? The red shirts' belief in equality, or the zealous yearning shared by yellow and multi-coloured shirts for a country free of corruption?

There is little hope for a country where millions create crude caricatures of each other, perpetuating ignorance and mutual demonisation.

Thailand has already lost a decade in protracted political conflicts. If people on both sides continue feeding their conflicts, then they should at least be mature enough to acknowledge certain positive elements and aspects of their opponents, instead of continuing to paint an increasingly unreal picture of their enemies, which sheds no light on the Thailand of today.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Blind-demonisation-of-opponents-doesnt-help-anybod-30266406.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-12

[BigBadGeordie]

I enjoyed reading this, if only for the reason, that should you substitute the words Thailand and country with TVF and forum, it sounds a bit like a review of this forum!

Edited August 12, 2015 by BigBadGeordie

[EnglishJohn]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

[JAG]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

Indeed, although I doubt it was your intention, your post could certainly be read as applying both ways as it were!

[JAG]

But but but Thaksin. ..

Got there first!

Edited August 12, 2015 by JAG

[LannaGuy]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

yes I agree that those who support unelected military juntas really DO reveal their ethical base as well as those that keep intoning the 'it's all Thaksin's fault' mantra

and, of course, you being an 'ethical self-righteous dude' you would agree that not all those opposed to military rule are Thaksin supporters!

good glad we cleared that up

[robblok]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

[MZurf]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

"Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote"

And neither can the Thais. But that's OK for EnglishJohn and his ilk because those pesky voters (I'm not going to say "a majority of the voters" or even "most of the voters" since this will likely provoke a hissy fit) keep voting for the wrong people.

[robblok]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

"Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote"

And neither can the Thais. But that's OK for EnglishJohn and his ilk because those pesky voters (I'm not going to say "a majority of the voters" or even "most of the voters" since this will likely provoke a hissy fit) keep voting for the wrong people.

This junta isn't forever in the end votes will count again hopefully with some stricter laws against corruption (lifetime ban / no statute of limitations ect). But personally, i like it like this no bullets flying no street protests, finally at least something is done against corruption. (not enough but something is better as nothing). We will see where it all goes, I just hope there wont be violence.

[MZurf]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

"Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote"

And neither can the Thais. But that's OK for EnglishJohn and his ilk because those pesky voters (I'm not going to say "a majority of the voters" or even "most of the voters" since this will likely provoke a hissy fit) keep voting for the wrong people.

This junta isn't forever in the end votes will count again hopefully with some stricter laws against corruption (lifetime ban / no statute of limitations ect). But personally, i like it like this no bullets flying no street protests, finally at least something is done against corruption. (not enough but something is better as nothing). We will see where it all goes, I just hope there wont be violence.

" I just hope there wont be violence." You and me both, but I just don't see what's happening today as anything other than someone tightening the lid on the pressure cooker.

Oh, and this just in:

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-pm-says-brother-could-army-chief-074724834.html

Now, who saw that coming?!?!

[robblok]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

"Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote"

And neither can the Thais. But that's OK for EnglishJohn and his ilk because those pesky voters (I'm not going to say "a majority of the voters" or even "most of the voters" since this will likely provoke a hissy fit) keep voting for the wrong people.

This junta isn't forever in the end votes will count again hopefully with some stricter laws against corruption (lifetime ban / no statute of limitations ect). But personally, i like it like this no bullets flying no street protests, finally at least something is done against corruption. (not enough but something is better as nothing). We will see where it all goes, I just hope there wont be violence.

" I just hope there wont be violence." You and me both, but I just don't see what's happening today as anything other than someone tightening the lid on the pressure cooker.

Oh, and this just in:

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-pm-says-brother-could-army-chief-074724834.html

Now, who saw that coming?!?!

That is just wrong.. looks a lot like the nepotism I am against. (don't know if the guy has the qualifications or not and if there are other more suitable candidates so I can't say with certainty its wrong but looks like it)

[LannaGuy]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

"Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote"

And neither can the Thais. But that's OK for EnglishJohn and his ilk because those pesky voters (I'm not going to say "a majority of the voters" or even "most of the voters" since this will likely provoke a hissy fit) keep voting for the wrong people.

This junta isn't forever in the end votes will count again hopefully with some stricter laws against corruption (lifetime ban / no statute of limitations ect). But personally, i like it like this no bullets flying no street protests, finally at least something is done against corruption. (not enough but something is better as nothing). We will see where it all goes, I just hope there wont be violence.

" I just hope there wont be violence." You and me both, but I just don't see what's happening today as anything other than someone tightening the lid on the pressure cooker.

Oh, and this just in:

http://news.yahoo.com/thai-pm-says-brother-could-army-chief-074724834.html

Now, who saw that coming?!?!

Chief or Permanent Sect of Defence it's irrelevant he's appointed all his chums anyway including his wife ages ago as Army Wife Chief

[mikemac]

Stop feeding them robblok, they have had enough !

[tbthailand]

so what is Pravit's alias on this forum.

for those interested in going beyond the red kwai and cake-makeup caricatures, there is this piece on prachatai. Although the title makes you think it's just about red shirts, it compares both sides.

The article is based on research done in Thai, for those who can dig into it further...

[Fat Haggis]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

I've travelled through out Thailand since 2012, in the 3 years I have never once been bombed, or intimated or threatened. I live in Issan, never heard of anyone being bombed anywhere near the main cities or villages, especially farangs ;-)

[tbthailand]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

but every so often there is a MIB spotting here...

[metisdead]

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/769792-notice-to-members-posting-in-thailand-news/

[waitforusalso]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

"Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote"

And neither can the Thais. But that's OK for EnglishJohn and his ilk because those pesky voters (I'm not going to say "a majority of the voters" or even "most of the voters" since this will likely provoke a hissy fit) keep voting for the wrong people.

This junta isn't forever in the end votes will count again hopefully with some stricter laws against corruption (lifetime ban / no statute of limitations ect). But personally, i like it like this no bullets flying no street protests, finally at least something is done against corruption. (not enough but something is better as nothing). We will see where it all goes, I just hope there wont be violence.

Bullets only started flying when the democratically elected governments were removed or were in the process of being removed by Suthep and his army buddies. (N.B. Suthep was one of the merry bunch, gleefully rubbing their hands together, who visited General Anupong in his army barracks only days before Abhisit was 'voted' in as PM by his newly found 'allies'.)

There were certainly no bullets or bombs after Yingluck & PTP had squarely smashed the Dems in the 2011 election. That is, until the plotting Uncles showed up!

[jayboy]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

yes I agree that those who support unelected military juntas really DO reveal their ethical base as well as those that keep intoning the 'it's all Thaksin's fault' mantra

and, of course, you being an 'ethical self-righteous dude' you would agree that not all those opposed to military rule are Thaksin supporters!

good glad we cleared that up

.

The odd thing is that those Thais supporting the PTP in the country at large are generally working or lower middle class, and are certainly not all particularly well educated ( a very different matter from being unintelligent of course).

On the forum however - judging by quality of posts,ability to express arguments clearly and succinctly, grasp of grammar and syntax etc the most rabid foreign opponents of PTP seem to be generally of the lower social classes and indifferently educated.These are precisely the kind of people who in Britain are vocal in their dislike of toffs and a self serving establishment class.

Many exceptions of course but the paradox is striking. enough to be worth noting.

Edited August 12, 2015 by jayboy

[ratcatcher]

Edited August 12, 2015 by ratcatcher

[JAG]

Splitters!

[JAG]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

yes I agree that those who support unelected military juntas really DO reveal their ethical base as well as those that keep intoning the 'it's all Thaksin's fault' mantra

and, of course, you being an 'ethical self-righteous dude' you would agree that not all those opposed to military rule are Thaksin supporters!

good glad we cleared that up

.

The odd thing is that those Thais supporting the PTP in the country at large are generally working or lower middle class, and are certainly not all particularly well educated ( a very different matter from being unintelligent of course).

On the forum however - judging by quality of posts,ability to express arguments clearly and succinctly, grasp of grammar and syntax etc the most rabid foreign opponents of PTP seem to be generally of the lower social classes and indifferently educated.These are precisely the kind of people who in Britain are vocal in their dislike of toffs and a self serving establishment class.

Many exceptions of course but the paradox is striking. enough to be worth noting.

I'm not a great believer in identifying people by social class myself (the whole system rather went "Pete Tong" when they made "Two Jabs Prescott" a Baron! ) but class aside, the apparent indifferent educational attainments are often found amongst the membership of the UKs far right movements - think National Front and British National Party. I believe the same is true throughout Western Europe. As for the USA - well they've come up "Trumps" as it were!

Edited August 12, 2015 by JAG

[jayboy]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

yes I agree that those who support unelected military juntas really DO reveal their ethical base as well as those that keep intoning the 'it's all Thaksin's fault' mantra

and, of course, you being an 'ethical self-righteous dude' you would agree that not all those opposed to military rule are Thaksin supporters!

good glad we cleared that up

.

The odd thing is that those Thais supporting the PTP in the country at large are generally working or lower middle class, and are certainly not all particularly well educated ( a very different matter from being unintelligent of course).

On the forum however - judging by quality of posts,ability to express arguments clearly and succinctly, grasp of grammar and syntax etc the most rabid foreign opponents of PTP seem to be generally of the lower social classes and indifferently educated.These are precisely the kind of people who in Britain are vocal in their dislike of toffs and a self serving establishment class.

Many exceptions of course but the paradox is striking. enough to be worth noting.

I'm not a great believer in identifying people by social class myself (the whole system rather went "Pete Tong" when they made "Two Jabs Prescott" a Baron!) but class aside, the apparent indifferent educational attainments are often found amongst the membership of the far right movements - think National Front and British National Party.

The quasi fascist movements you mention are at least logically consistent since they have little patience with the entrenched establishment, aristocracy. financial barons and general toffery.You are entirely correct that they are generally poorly educated and of humble social background.Their equivalents on this forum however bizarrely embrace the Thai establishment.I suspect half the time they don't fully understand what they are saying.Certainly few of them bother researching or reading about Thai history and politics.

Class in Britain and Thailand is as pervasive as ever.Thugs like Prescott and Suthep remain so however much ermine is metaphorically worn.To be fair Prescott is a decent enough guy unlike......

[JAG]

Prescott is essentially as you say a decent enough fellow, his reaction to that fellow with the extraordinary haircut who threw that egg certainly livened up a lacklustre election. For a few reckless cider fuelled moments I even considered voting labour, then that gurning shit Blair came to mind!

I think that, to put it bluntly, some identify with the ruling classes because they feel that as falangs they are a step (or several) above the ordinary people of Thailand. Others are spouting the views of their paramour ( mind you my views on Thai politics are influenced, if not dictated, by my wife.)

What is certain is that public espousal of many of these views would, in their home country at least be ridiculed, here they can imagine that it is respectable opinion.

Still, it takes all sorts. ...

Edited August 12, 2015 by JAG

[rubl]

Ah well, denigrating opponents continues I read.

Still that's in line with the topic "blind demonisation of opponents doesn't help anybody. Giving nice sounding reasons based on opinion and 'obvious facts' doesn't help either.

[jesimps]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

yes I agree that those who support unelected military juntas really DO reveal their ethical base as well as those that keep intoning the 'it's all Thaksin's fault' mantra

and, of course, you being an 'ethical self-righteous dude' you would agree that not all those opposed to military rule are Thaksin supporters!

good glad we cleared that up

.

The odd thing is that those Thais supporting the PTP in the country at large are generally working or lower middle class, and are certainly not all particularly well educated ( a very different matter from being unintelligent of course).

On the forum however - judging by quality of posts,ability to express arguments clearly and succinctly, grasp of grammar and syntax etc the most rabid foreign opponents of PTP seem to be generally of the lower social classes and indifferently educated.These are precisely the kind of people who in Britain are vocal in their dislike of toffs and a self serving establishment class.

Many exceptions of course but the paradox is striking. enough to be worth noting.

I'm not a great believer in identifying people by social class myself (the whole system rather went "Pete Tong" when they made "Two Jabs Prescott" a Baron!) but class aside, the apparent indifferent educational attainments are often found amongst the membership of the far right movements - think National Front and British National Party.

The quasi fascist movements you mention are at least logically consistent since they have little patience with the entrenched establishment, aristocracy. financial barons and general toffery.You are entirely correct that they are generally poorly educated and of humble social background.Their equivalents on this forum however bizarrely embrace the Thai establishment.I suspect half the time they don't fully understand what they are saying.Certainly few of them bother researching or reading about Thai history and politics.

Class in Britain and Thailand is as pervasive as ever.Thugs like Prescott and Suthep remain so however much ermine is metaphorically worn.To be fair Prescott is a decent enough guy unlike......

They just spout what their Thai wife tells them to. They get brainwashed at home.

[LannaGuy]

Prescott is essentially as you say a decent enough fellow, his reaction to that fellow with the extraordinary haircut who threw that egg certainly livened up a lacklustre election. For a few reckless cider fuelled moments I even considered voting labour, then that gurning shit Blair came to mind!

I think that, to put it bluntly, some identify with the ruling classes because they feel that as falangs they are a step (or several) above the ordinary people of Thailand. Others are spouting the views of their paramour ( mind you my views on Thai politics are influenced, if not dictated, by my wife.)

What is certain is that public espousal of many of these views would, in their home country at least be ridiculed, here they can imagine that it is respectable opinion.

Still, it takes all sorts. ...

much of it is about 'deferential voting' (if there was any) as some 'assume' that those from a higher 'class' are more apt to be intelligent leaders lol this has served the elite well in most countries

most of the rabid anti-PTP and pro-Junta on TVF are as you describe and one of the most damning indictments of their position is that to be anti-junta is to be pro-Thaksin/PTP and THAT, intellectually, is absurd and immature

Edited August 13, 2015 by LannaGuy

[heybruce]

At least here in Thaivisa I don't get bombed and threatened so the guys posting here are not too bad, think there is always some common ground. Besides whatever we post here has no influence and we cant even vote. Its just nice mental exercise to keep sharp.

I've travelled through out Thailand since 2012, in the 3 years I have never once been bombed, or intimated or threatened. I live in Issan, never heard of anyone being bombed anywhere near the main cities or villages, especially farangs ;-)

Try toppling the elected government, then you'll see some violence.

Oh, wait...there is no elected government.

I know, try toppling the junta, then you're sure to see some violence.

[heybruce]

But but but Thaksin. ..

Got there first!

Darn, beat me to it.

[mikemac]

The quality and content of the posts by people on this forum give an excellent indicator to the character types who support Thaksin/Pheu-Thai and those who don't.

It is a far more revealing truth of their personal ethics than the lists given in the original article - and shows things are not that complex at all for most.

yes I agree that those who support unelected military juntas really DO reveal their ethical base as well as those that keep intoning the 'it's all Thaksin's fault' mantra

and, of course, you being an 'ethical self-righteous dude' you would agree that not all those opposed to military rule are Thaksin supporters!

good glad we cleared that up

.

The odd thing is that those Thais supporting the PTP in the country at large are generally working or lower middle class, and are certainly not all particularly well educated ( a very different matter from being unintelligent of course).

On the forum however - judging by quality of posts,ability to express arguments clearly and succinctly, grasp of grammar and syntax etc the most rabid foreign opponents of PTP seem to be generally of the lower social classes and indifferently educated.These are precisely the kind of people who in Britain are vocal in their dislike of toffs and a self serving establishment class.

Many exceptions of course but the paradox is striking. enough to be worth noting.

You may well be right jayboy, but as is the case with many of your observations and predictions, we will never know.

One thing I have noticed, in the 10 years I have been reading comments on this forum, is that the anti-Shin "lower social classes" may not have the education standards their opponents but at least their open and honest opinions don't sound like they came out of a South London boiler-room.