Domesticating a Thai child.

[Happy Grumpy]

A mate has been with his wife for 5 years, married for 3. Her 10 yr old daughter recently moved in with them having been raised in some farm dwelling in Isaan by the grandparents.

She pees in the bins, during the night too in the bin in her bedroom.

Can’t use a knife.

Holds cutlery (spoon, fork) in her fist like a dagger.

Walks around half naked.

Etc etc.

He might be transferred home in the next few months and the wife and her daughter would likely go too.

He asked me for advice in how to domestic her.

Never had to domesticate a child before.

Any advice for him?

[wow64]

Start with a box in the room and some kittylitter in it.. A bowl on the ground with some food in it.

Sent from my c64

[fiddlehead]

I remember a child like this in my son's kindergarten.
It took a few years but the teacher really worked hard with him and spent a lot more time on him than the others.
Now, he is 11 years old an totally normal.
I'd say it took 5 years minimum.

I would venture to guess it is going to take a special teacher who really cares.

As well as you and her Mom at home.

Gonna take lots of love.

I also think school would be important because she would see how others act, and eat, and go to the bathroom, etc.

Good luck.

[thehelmsman]

First, what is a bin? Second, knives are used for preparing the food not eating the food. Me thinks you exagerate. Spelt wrong but you understand.

You say farm dwelling as if it is repulsive. Get over yourself. She's used to eating many meals without utensils. Can't take long to show her how the very proper farang wants her to eat.

[millwall_fan]

Give her lots of love, and support and talk to her. She's not a dog, poor little thing: she can speak, think and reason. Presumably she doesn't speak any English so your mate will have to achieve all that through his partner.

[Crazy chef 1]

She is God dam'n a human being and not a dog...may you reconsider your choice of words...

[richard_smith237]

She is God dam'n a human being and not a dog...may you reconsider your choice of words...

She goes to the toilet in a bin in the bedroom... As unkind as inhumane as the choice of words may seem - Domestication is correct.

[richard_smith237]

First, what is a bin? Second, knives are used for preparing the food not eating the food. Me thinks you exagerate. Spelt wrong but you understand.

You say farm dwelling as if it is repulsive. Get over yourself. She's used to eating many meals without utensils. Can't take long to show her how the very proper farang wants her to eat.

The Op appears 'well over himself' he's looking for advice on how to take a child from a carefree, rural environment somewhat lacking in what we as westerners may term civilisation to an environment whereby her existing actions and behaviour will make her stand out as somewhat backwards.

Up until now the poor child has not been provided with the skills vital to assimilate comfortably into a developed society.

As others have mentioned, she will require a lot of care, love and kind mentoring to catchup on many of the critical aspect of socialisation she has up until now missed out on.

[Crazy chef 1]

She is God dam'n a human being and not a dog...may you reconsider your choice of words...

She goes to the toilet in a bin in the bedroom... As unkind as inhumane as the choice of words may seem - Domestication is correct.

Got your point but I think you could express the situation more gently...

[puukao]

If this was an American, I am sure you would not use such harsh words!!!!!

oh wait, this post might get deleted....

OK, OK...I kid......i'm sure it will work out just fine when you turn to TV for advice...

that was mistake 1, 2, and 4

[richard_smith237]

She is God dam'n a human being and not a dog...may you reconsider your choice of words...

She goes to the toilet in a bin in the bedroom... As unkind as inhumane as the choice of words may seem - Domestication is correct.

Got your point but I think you could express the situation more gently...

Of course... We could dance around with niceties all day... the girl herself needs to be treated kindly and delicately...

On an anonymous Web Forum perhaps brutal honestly is the best way of expressing this situation. One which will gain the best results and replies.

The Child needs to learn how to live and behave in a new and developed environment, she currently appears to lack even the most basic of hygiene standards, is unable eat in a manner which wouldn't draw attention..... With these examples I'm sure there are many more far greater issues.... She's 10 years old and has a sharp learning curve ahead of her if she is to be moving to a Westernised Country any time soon.

Edited August 13, 2015 by richard_smith237

[Crazy chef 1]

I think yor mate should consult some experts/ child psychologist how to proceed ...the case is quite difficult.

May you can keep us updated how the process is because I think this case is not unique here...

[sipi]

10 years old and not toilet trained. If she was 3 or 4 or it would be bad enough, but 10? Where does she crap at school? Why hasn't someone else noticed it even if her family hasn't? I have never seen a 10 year old like this in any country who doesn't have other possible health/ psychological issues. Talk to a Doctor.

[roamer]

I can't get my head around this.

I speak as someone whose Thai stepdaughter grew up in an Issan village with grand parents until she was 8. Now she is in the UK halfway through her degree at a top university. But at 8, when she moved to the UK she was pretty much like any other kid here, no, let me rephrase that, apart from the language issue, she was far better behaved and infinitely more polite and respectful than her peer group, something that persists today.

Granted, her grandparents may well have bought her up better than the grandparents in the picture you are describing, but where the heck was her mother throughout this ? THAT is what I can't get my head around.

I'd like to say the child will learn and adapt but having a parent that is at least half interested is a good start, that is not what you are describing.

[n210mp]

Most of the emphasis should be on "EDUCATION" not domestication, domestication's maybe something you teach to a lesser animal such as a dog or a cat

[richard_smith237]

People are getting hung up on the use of 'Domesticate' in this context.... While some may not like it, its use even in this context is correct.

This thread involves far more concerning issues than the use of a verb which some inaccurately feel is out of line when used in context with a person.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/domesticate

¹domesticate

verb do·mes·ti·cate \də-ˈmes-ti-ˌkāt\

: to breed or train (an animal) to need and accept the care of human beings : to tame (an animal)

: to grow (a plant) for human use

: to train (someone) to behave in an appropriate way at home (such as by using good manners, being polite, being helpful, etc.)

[Boo]

I'd assume she is being led by example on how to conduct herself properly, at home, by you & her mum. It really isn't anyone else's job.

A system of reward & punishment works for kids, if she pees in bin she loses a treasured toy or cant watch TV for 2 days etc. If she goes in the toilet reward with praise. The utensil issue can be easily remidies at meal times, eat together & correct her when she is eating. Same with the clothes, if she is half naked, take her to her room & show her the minimum expect to wear. When she isn't wearing the minimum, then remind her & tell her to go put clothes on.

She's just learnt a different way to you at the grandparents, her manners are easily resolved with some effort & patience. By you & her mum.

[Boo]

The toilet issue could have been as a result of the living conditions at the grandparents, maybe it was dangerous for her to leave the sleeping rtoom alone in the night so was taught to pee in the bin. Up until failry recently with the advent of indoor plumbing many people used piss pots in the night. TBH I would be more concerned about WHY a child that age is waking for a pee in the night, it could be a symptom of diabetes for example.

She clearly is potty trained as she isn't peeing int he bed but waking, going to the bin & peeing. There is a big difference.

Same with the clothes, maybe the heat & living conditions made it easier to be half undressed. Maybe the grandparents weren't good about buying her new clothes for her growing body or cleaning them so she went without.

The child needs guidance & example. Not domesticating.

[Gecko123]

The OP, who has a long history of denigrating Thais at every opportunity, supposedly has a "friend" who is just now showing interest in how his step-child is being raised. This, despite the fact that the friend has been living with his wife for 3 years and has been married to her for 5 years.

I believe the OP's post was crafted for the sole purpose of depicting rural Thais as primitive savages who don't know how to raise children properly. I find this story next to imposible to believe if for no other reason than because, merely by attending school, the child would have been socialized far beyond the "enfante sauvage" state which the OP depicts. It also strikes me as very illogical that the grandparents who raised a child sufficiently well to attract the "friend's" romantic interest , would then in turn prove to be so hopelessly inept at raising the grandchild.

If by some chance the story is true, anyone with the most meager child rearing skills could rapidly improve this situation. Sadly, both the mother and the step-father have neglected her upbringing during a crucial development period. Both are showing some serious chutzpah by now critiquing and complaining about the stand-in job the grandparents performed. The problem isn't the grandparents; the problem is the neglect of the mother and step-father.

Verdict: DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Gecko123

[malt25]

First thing you need to do is stop the pretense.

I have been with my wife for 5 years, married for 3. Her 10 yr old daughter recently moved in with us having been raised on a farm in Isaan by the grandparents.

Once you accept the reality of the situation, instead of I have a mate syndrome, you might start to bond with the child. Time, love, empathy & patience are just a few of the qualities you will need.

A long road ahead with many tears I suspect. Are YOU up to it ?

[NickJ]

Afraid to go to the outhouse in the middle of the night.

Try nightlights in the bathroom so its not scarey situation.

Teach her to hold the utensils make a game out of it....she can use chop sticks better thanyou kinda thing.

Will you be teaching her to use a fork upside down? I see that a lot here in filks from the UK.

Edited August 15, 2015 by NickJ

[slipperylobster]

He will lose. I bet.

She must first respect the authority. That authority can then teach her.

Education 101.... Teacher must earn the respect first.

[DipStick]

The OP, who has a long history of denigrating Thais at every opportunity, supposedly has a "friend" who is just now showing interest in how his step-child is being raised. This, despite the fact that the friend has been living with his wife for 3 years and has been married to her for 5 years.

I believe the OP's post was crafted for the sole purpose of depicting rural Thais as primitive savages who don't know how to raise children properly. I find this story next to imposible to believe if for no other reason than because, merely by attending school, the child would have been socialized far beyond the "enfante sauvage" state which the OP depicts. It also strikes me as very illogical that the grandparents who raised a child sufficiently well to attract the "friend's" romantic interest , would then in turn prove to be so hopelessly inept at raising the grandchild.

If by some chance the story is true, anyone with the most meager child rearing skills could rapidly improve this situation. Sadly, both the mother and the step-father have neglected her upbringing during a crucial development period. Both are showing some serious chutzpah by now critiquing and complaining about the stand-in job the grandparents performed. The problem isn't the grandparents; the problem is the neglect of the mother and step-father.

Verdict: DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

I would guess even Trolls can read. Quote he has been with his wife for five years and married for three !

[soihok]

No reply or comment from the OP.

Trolling?

Anyone heard of Autism?

My eldest is Autistic.

Has trouble with most everyday things we take for granted.

[realenglish1]

This would make a great Mini Series on Nat Geo Could call it "Farm girl Domestication King "

Well most shows end in King so I thought I would throw it in

[nongai]

Certainly a ten year old who is mentally normal should be inquisitive and quick to learn. Was she going to school when she lived with her grandparents?

Often rural people eat with their hands.

Getting even educated Thais to use a knife and fork is not easy...the types of food they are used to need only fork and spoon... so if she is being introduced to Western food it is normal she cannot use a knife.

Most rural housing of the wood/bamboo on stilts type have outhouses so for safety it is better to pee in a bucket instead of trying to go out at night and probably without any lighting and she is a kid and Thai so may be scared of animals or snakes or ghosts.

The Father-in-law will cope best if he learns some Thai quickly...get the kid to help teach him.

Rural and even now hill-tribe kids were often raised to run about without any pants at home...easier for cleaning. So they get used to being half naked at home and at ten she is perhaps not yet mature enough to start worrying about her sex, especially if she didn't go to school before.

Edited August 15, 2015 by nongai

[arjunadawn]

Well, I do not think the approach to "domesticating" a human being will be helpful for the child at all. A ten year old girl peeing in the house is a sound indicator (though not always) of child abuse. The options do not vary much from this terrible point. Another possibility is significant disruption in the life of the child. If someone wants to "domesticate" something? Get a dog. Besides the header being sick and revealing of the issue on its face, the OP itself further clarified that the adult may fail to see the possibilities from the child's point of view. I pity this child.

Edited August 15, 2015 by arjunadawn

[arjunadawn]

She is God dam'n a human being and not a dog...may you reconsider your choice of words...

She goes to the toilet in a bin in the bedroom... As unkind as inhumane as the choice of words may seem - Domestication is correct.

Domestication says more about the adult than the child. Technically, the word may apply toward the goals desired but since its not used with regard to human social skills it reads as a Freudian slip.

First, what is a bin? Second, knives are used for preparing the food not eating the food. Me thinks you exagerate. Spelt wrong but you understand.

You say farm dwelling as if it is repulsive. Get over yourself. She's used to eating many meals without utensils. Can't take long to show her how the very proper farang wants her to eat.

The Op appears 'well over himself' he's looking for advice on how to take a child from a carefree, rural environment somewhat lacking in what we as westerners may term civilisation to an environment whereby her existing actions and behaviour will make her stand out as somewhat backwards.

Up until now the poor child has not been provided with the skills vital to assimilate comfortably into a developed society.

As others have mentioned, she will require a lot of care, love and kind mentoring to catchup on many of the critical aspect of socialisation she has up until now missed out on.

I agree with you, Richard Smith237. I do think the choice of words is inappropriate, however. I think it also suggests the child may not be provided what you suggest is needed- love and socialization skills. I agree. I do believe urinating, particularly at night, in child psychology, is often an indicator of abuse- of some form.

Example: My ex had a daughter who was around ten. She would spend weekends with her dad once a month. She began peeing in the bathroom air vent at night (on floor). I recalled vaguely this was a hallmark to be concerned about. We took her to a child psychologist. The team there was also concerned about what transpired on those visits. It turned out that the father did not appear to be abusing her but that the disruption in her home life played out with these types of acts. The point is, the child does not need domestication- a form of conditioning base on negative or positive reward. The child needs love, socialization, inclusion, security, constancy, and landmarks that do not change.

[smotherb]

10 years old and not toilet trained. If she was 3 or 4 or it would be bad enough, but 10? Where does she crap at school? Why hasn't someone else noticed it even if her family hasn't? I have never seen a 10 year old like this in any country who doesn't have other possible health/ psychological issues. Talk to a Doctor.

sipi, you and many other TV posters appear to be making too much of these issues or are somewhat confused by the post.

The OP does not say the child is not toilet-trained, but that she pees in the bins. Most likely the farm on which she was raised had an outdoor toilet, so going in bins or pots was accepted practice in lieu (pun intended) of having to go outside--they were in essence the indoor toilet facilities and they were most likely emptied in the mornings.

Eating with the utensils held in your fist is a common trait, many children and adults do likewise; just look around the next time you eat in a local restaurant. Did you ever notice the difference between Europeans and Americans using utensils? My mother used to think the Brit habit of stoking the food with the fork held upside down in the left hand was particularly offensive.

Walking around half-naked is again common, especially for children, in hot climates without a/c and washing machine; it's simply cooler and more clothes-washing friendly. She will most likely wear more clothes as she matures and starts realizing her sexuality.

She is not a dog, she is a person who can be told how to act and she is reaching the age where she will want to be socially accepted. You may have a language problem and cannot speak Thai, but you can have her mother instruct her--providing the mother too does not do the same things; after all she was probably raised by the same people in the same place.

If the mother acts more "domesticated," how did she learn? If the mother acts in the same ways, well, you have two to house-break. May I suggest you do not start with a rolled-up newspaper.

[EmptyHead]

The only problem I can see is that she pees in the bins.

Until my wife was 12 they did all their toilet business in the woods.

I suppose if i had to pee in the middle of the night and we didn't have a toilet, except the woods, I might pee in the bin too.

Though, I assume they have proper plumbing in her village......(my wife was 12 about 26 years ago...lol).

It doesn't sound like much of an problem actually. I think you are just venting.

What exactly does walking around half-naked mean? I walked around in just my boxer shorts infront of inlaws when they were living with us.

The knife and fork thing...okay....I presume she eats with her hands in the village....you try eating sticky rice with a knife and fork, lol.