US: Despite order, office refuses to issue gay marriage license

[Seastallion]

She won't do her job. Dismiss her. Not complicated. Imagine when banning interracial marriage was declared unconstitutional and some hayseed racist bigot in the sticks refused to do the job because of "religious" principles. Not different at all. YOU'RE FIRED!

Just like you and others should be banned from this site for pushing your agenda,same arguement in my opinion,in other words if it does not suit the minority,which you are then ban it.The other question is does the majority have a say?

Ironic, considering your TVF handle.

[Boon Mee]

This is really just the beginning of the gay civil rights movement in the USA. American GLBT people still lack national legal protection

Bull. Shit.

If a Bakery owner does not make a cake to suit a couple of gays he's hit with a lawsuit.

It's outa control, man...

[Jingthing]

It's not BS.

In many U.S. states employees can legally be fired ONLY because of GLBT status.

That is a fact and for perhaps most GLBT Americans that kind of discrimination is even more vitally important than the legalization of same sex marriage.

[MyFriend You]

I believe most people in the Rowan County area disagree with her position (I lived there for 20 years and still have a lot of friends there, none of whom support her - I worked with one of the plaintiffs in the ACLU suit).

Bunning's opinion is well thought through (yes I read it) and Kim Davis is a propaganda pawn for Liberty Counsel's theocratic agenda. She will lose. Judge Bunning is definitely not a liberal by any stretch (his father is former republican senator Jim Bunning). I also don't believe that the Sixth Circuit will rule differently, if they even consider her appeal. Liberty Counsel is simply trying to drag this out for propaganda and as a form of throwing roadblocks up.... The decision can be read here: http://files.eqcf.org/cases/015-cv-00044-43/

A lot of people in the community are very upset by this - in fact I don't know anyone who agrees with her, though there are some for sure. Ironically, a year or so ago, Morehead (the county seat) passed an ordinance banning discrimination against individuals based on sexual orientation or gender identity, the university has had a policy for several years concerning sexual orientation. It is overall a liberal community, with a large academic community, and Ms. Davis (who herself has been married 4 times) hardly represents the views of a majority.

Maybe she should marry a Woman, might be her lucky charm but relistically, she can be fired from the Position by the Mayor or the Governor correct??

[MyFriend You]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

[Jingthing]

I don't know about that but anything of that nature would be about local ordinances and not related at all to the constitutional matter we're discussing from the OP.

[Publicus]

This is really just the beginning of the gay civil rights movement in the USA. American GLBT people still lack national legal protection

Bull. Shit.

If a Bakery owner does not make a cake to suit a couple of gays he's hit with a lawsuit.

It's outa control, man...

The right is out of control in its compulsive across the board denials.

Historically in the United States there has been Wasp prejudice and discrimination against Jewish people, blacks, gays. The more the population grew the greater this became true.

Rightwing history in these respects only begins with LBJ and the Great Society. This is wrongheadedly so because the Democratic president LBJ addressed these evils, principally evils against black Americans, by recognizing them as a protected class of citizens under the law and the Constitution.

Jews have gained a significant acceptance over time, and gays have achieved acceptance more recently.

Rightwingnut history however only begins with the Great Society because by doing so the right can deny the facts and the reality of history, i.e., try to focus on LBJ only as a patronizing and solicitous liberal. In other words, the right says It's the liberals' fault, not America's fault from the year one.

The right loses again. Bad habits over there.

Wrong side of history among other deficiencies.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

If that is the cost of contempt of the Constitution and SCOTUS then so be it.

Can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

And don't forget the dough, 145K big ones.

[Berkshire]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

Good. A few more of these lawsuits should do the trick. I can't stand bigots hiding behind "religious convictions" in order to exercise their hate. Too much of that kind of crap going on all over the world.

[attrayant]

Good. A few more of these lawsuits should do the trick. I can't stand bigots hiding behind "religious convictions" in order to exercise their hate. Too much of that kind of crap going on all over the world.

Especially when the opposite-sex couple standing behind them in line might have had a prior marriage & divorce, yet they seem to be able to get married without problem.

[chuckd]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

In reality it was nowhere in the South. It was in Oregon and the fine was $135,000.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians

By Todd Starnes Published July 03, 2015

The owners of a mom and pop bakery have just learned there is a significant price to pay for following their religious beliefs.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes By Melissa, have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple after they refused to bake them a wedding cake in 2013.

The Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) awarded $60,000 to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for “emotional suffering.”

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/03/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html

[F430murci]

Lol, love the legal experts butchering the heck out of legalese while trying to sound as if they know what the heck they are talking about. Gotta also laugh at Publcus's notion that everything he finds disagreeable is provided some derogatory able them the words right wing in it some where. Not all Republicans are against gay marriage and not all democrats are for gay marriage. Some, however, are governed by shallow thought processes that only see black and white, but cannot see the deeper meaning driving individual beliefs and morals.

Do any of you live in Kentucky, are gay and trying to get marriage license? If not, no need to fret. Everything will be be fine and this, as everything else, will work itself out. The Clerk will lose her job standing up for her religious beliefs, but that's the breaks. Get a non-public job if region keeps you from doing yours.

[mikebike]

That horse has already left the barn...sorry, U.S. Southern talk. Those opposed on religious grounds badly mishandled the issue IMHO. Those opposed from the get go should have united in arguing that the institution of marriage was one of the traditional seven sacraments of the Christian Church. Thus government, recognizing the Separation of Church and State, would not be allowed to interfere in purely a religious matter. The government would, in its public interest govern, "civil unions" with all equal rights under law being given.

By demanding government not abide by the Separation of Church and State, the U.S. conservative churches have left the door open for all other religions to demand equal rights. Watch for it as Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist prayers are demanded equally before government meetings, public events. This and the 2016 Presidential Campaigns promise a world of entertainment in the near future!

Are you seriously trying to claim marriage as Christian? Are you totally unaware that religions older than Catholicism were performing marriages long before Christ was born? As for the second paragraph, all other churches already have equal rights... what Constitution have you been reading?

[F430murci]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

Good. A few more of these lawsuits should do the trick. I can't stand bigots hiding behind "religious convictions" in order to exercise their hate. Too much of that kind of crap going on all over the world.

Interesting, you cannot stand people who exercise what you refer to as hate . . ., yet when one reads the tone of this post your are doing what you condemn, exercising hate regarding something that does not coincide with your belief system. I'd say the problem resides with you and is not external when something likes this stirs such an emotional response.

[Publicus]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

In reality it was nowhere in the South. It was in Oregon and the fine was $135,000.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians

By Todd Starnes Published July 03, 2015

The owners of a mom and pop bakery have just learned there is a significant price to pay for following their religious beliefs.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes By Melissa, have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple after they refused to bake them a wedding cake in 2013.

The Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) awarded $60,000 to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for “emotional suffering.”

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/03/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html

It is a matter of secular Constitutional law being superior to sacred cannon law. The rule of sovereign civil law versus the rule of personal anarchy based in personal religion, i.e., eccentricism.

The right just doesn't get it nor will the right ever get it.

Born losers over there.

So thx for the clarifying post.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Publicus

[wwest5829]

She won't do her job. Dismiss her. Not complicated. Imagine when banning interracial marriage was declared unconstitutional and some hayseed racist bigot in the sticks refused to do the job because of "religious" principles. Not different at all. YOU'RE FIRED!

Just like you and others should be banned from this site for pushing your agenda,same arguement in my opinion,in other words if it does not suit the minority,which you are then ban it.The other question is does the majority have a say?

Ironic, considering your TVF handle.

c

Sorry, but the U"S. constitutional rights are established to protect the minority against the tyranny of the majority as has been in evidence many times in U.S. history. These rights are not subject to the popularity among the majority for good reason, as spoken to by John Stuart Mill, if I remember correctly.

[F430murci]

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

In reality it was nowhere in the South. It was in Oregon and the fine was $135,000.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians

By Todd Starnes Published July 03, 2015

The owners of a mom and pop bakery have just learned there is a significant price to pay for following their religious beliefs.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes By Melissa, have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple after they refused to bake them a wedding cake in 2013.

The Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) awarded $60,000 to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for “emotional suffering.”

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/03/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html

It is a matter of secular Constitutional law being superior to sacred cannon law. The rule of sovereign civil law versus the rule of personal anarchy based in personal religion, i.e., eccentricism.

The right just doesn't get it nor will the right ever get it.

Born losers over there.

Lol, the use of big words obtains from Google does not make one appear as if they are an expert. In fact, someone that actually knows what they are talking about regarding this subject would not use terms such as secular constitutional law, sacred cannon law and rule of sovereign civil law . . . God I love this place. Some of you guys always give me a good chuckle in the morning before I drag myself out of bed and force myself to go to work and deal with real life.

[wwest5829]

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

In reality it was nowhere in the South. It was in Oregon and the fine was $135,000.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian bakers fined $135,000 for refusing to make wedding cake for lesbians

By Todd Starnes Published July 03, 2015

The owners of a mom and pop bakery have just learned there is a significant price to pay for following their religious beliefs.

Aaron and Melissa Klein, the owners of Sweet Cakes By Melissa, have been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple after they refused to bake them a wedding cake in 2013.

The Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry (BOLI) awarded $60,000 to Laurel Bowman-Cryer and $75,000 in damages to Rachel Bowman-Cryer for emotional suffering.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/07/03/christian-bakers-fined-135000-for-refusing-to-make-wedding-cake-for-lesbians.html

It is a matter of secular Constitutional law being superior to sacred cannon law. The rule of sovereign civil law versus the rule of personal anarchy based in personal religion, i.e., eccentricism.

The right just doesn't get it nor will the right ever get it.

Born losers over there.

Be gentle, they are just scared of the changes that shake their absolutist approach to life. And it is not just, "over there", these folks can be found all over the world. Yes, I would hope for more from the U.S.

[oneday]

She is an employee of a county office. She has no right to inflict her religious belief on a citizen. Fire her butt and sue the county government office for lots of money.

[nottocus]

I don't support gay marriage.

[Berkshire]

Would you bake a cake for a Queer Wedding which would violate your moral code?

We have to bow down to the lowest common denominator these days - enough is enough.

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

Good. A few more of these lawsuits should do the trick. I can't stand bigots hiding behind "religious convictions" in order to exercise their hate. Too much of that kind of crap going on all over the world.

Interesting, you cannot stand people who exercise what you refer to as hate . . ., yet when one reads the tone of this post your are doing what you condemn, exercising hate regarding something that does not coincide with your belief system. I'd say the problem resides with you and is not external when something likes this stirs such an emotional response.

Aaaah, trying to turn the tables, are we? We shouldn't hate the haters? Look, I'm not even gay, but even I can see that extending a minority group equal rights does not take away any of my rights. So how do the haters see it?

[granuaile]

Who cares about this quaint Kentucky trivia? Discriminating against same sex couples at the city hall/county clerk level has been ruled unconstitutional. Get with the program or get a new job! It is constitutional to deny marrying anyone for any reason by religious bodies. Separate matters. The US is not a theocracy. Thank"God" for that!

Do I have any sympathy for bigoted clerks refusing to do their jobs? No. None.

I don't disagree with you - however she is not hired for her position, she is elected and therefore can not simply be fired or removed from office. It requires an impeachment, and honestly I believe that the current tea-party nuts in the legislature would pass a law allowing her to refuse.... She does not work for the state, the governor, or any of the county bodies such as fiscal court. The only two ways she can be removed from office are impeachment by the legislature and being defeated in the next election. She can however be jailed and/or fined for contempt of court if Judge Bunning doesn't issue a stay on his order pending appeal.... Which I hope he will not do...

[granuaile]

Maybe she should marry a Woman, might be her lucky charm but relistically, she can be fired from the Position by the Mayor or the Governor correct??

No, as an elected official she cannot - not by the mayor, nor by the governor ...

[granuaile]

"...considered to be among the most progressive in Appalachian Kentucky."

Where it is no doubt legal to marry your sister or first cousin.... I think I hear banjos...

While we are on the subject of banjos... Do you know the difference between a banjo and an onion?

Nobody cries when you cut up a banjo!

You will hear banjos there (which I like) alone with dulcimers and other traditional instruments.

No you cannot marry your sister.

And obviously you have no idea of what you are talking about. Rowan County is a very progressive community, something I can speak for from experience. Not free of conservative, right-wing influence, but it is an area with progressive attitudes overall...

[F430murci]

From what I remember it cost a baker $145,000 for doing just that, refusing to bakle a cake for a Gay Wedding somewhere in the South.

Good. A few more of these lawsuits should do the trick. I can't stand bigots hiding behind "religious convictions" in order to exercise their hate. Too much of that kind of crap going on all over the world.

Interesting, you cannot stand people who exercise what you refer to as hate . . ., yet when one reads the tone of this post your are doing what you condemn, exercising hate regarding something that does not coincide with your belief system. I'd say the problem resides with you and is not external when something likes this stirs such an emotional response.

Aaaah, trying to turn the tables, are we? We shouldn't hate the haters? Look, I'm not even gay, but even I can see that extending a minority group equal rights does not take away any of my rights. So how do the haters see it?

Life is great. If I am spun out, the problem is usually me. I am all for people loving who they chose to love and marrying who they chose to marry provided they are not hurting anyone . . . like in a paedeophile sense. Children need to be protected. Gay marriage does not bother me in the least.

Edited August 14, 2015 by F430murci

[granuaile]

Especially when the opposite-sex couple standing behind them in line might have had a prior marriage & divorce, yet they seem to be able to get married without problem.

Actually she is refusing to issue any marriage licenses and of the four couples in the ACLU suit 2 are gay and 2 heterosexual, all denied marriage licenses...

[magnacarta]

She won't do her job. Dismiss her. Not complicated. Imagine when banning interracial marriage was declared unconstitutional and some hayseed racist bigot in the sticks refused to do the job because of "religious" principles. Not different at all. YOU'RE FIRED!

Just like you and others should be banned from this site for pushing your agenda,same arguement in my opinion,in other words if it does not suit the minority,which you are then ban it.The other question is does the majority have a say?

Ironic, considering your TVF handle.

Suggest you look deeper into the meaning,that is why I chose it,if you are a yank you will have to study,if a brit you will understand,swingsboth ways

[granuaile]

Lol, love the legal experts butchering the heck out of legalese while trying to sound as if they know what the heck they are talking about. Gotta also laugh at Publcus's notion that everything he finds disagreeable is provided some derogatory able them the words right wing in it some where. Not all Republicans are against gay marriage and not all democrats are for gay marriage. Some, however, are governed by shallow thought processes that only see black and white, but cannot see the deeper meaning driving individual beliefs and morals.

Do any of you live in Kentucky, are gay and trying to get marriage license? If not, no need to fret. Everything will be be fine and this, as everything else, will work itself out. The Clerk will lose her job standing up for her religious beliefs, but that's the breaks. Get a non-public job if region keeps you from doing yours.

My family (both paternal and maternal) have lived in Kentucky since the late 1700s, I have two gay cousins that I know of. I lived in the Rowan County community for 20 years, I still return to visit annually, I still pay taxes there, my sexual orientation is my own business but not a secret (a lot of people know me and I attended a gay-accepting Episcopalian church with a lesbian priest who was in a committed and blessed relationship), one of the individuals who filed suit for being denied a marriage license is a friend and someone I worked with. And unfortunately, as an elected official, she very likely will keep her job until the next election unless she resigns. I have many LGBT friends and their allies there... My drivers license is from there....

[Linky]

I don't support gay marriage.

Well unless you do things to prevent others who want to get married then I really dont think anyone cares what you think.

No one cares what this woman thinks either, they just want her to do the job she is paid to do.

As for not being able to sack her, would contempt of court be reason for her removal?

[Publicus]

It is a matter of secular Constitutional law being superior to sacred cannon law. The rule of sovereign civil law versus the rule of personal anarchy based in personal religion, i.e., eccentricism.

The right just doesn't get it nor will the right ever get it.

Born losers over there.

Be gentle, they are just scared of the changes that shake their absolutist approach to life. And it is not just, "over there", these folks can be found all over the world. Yes, I would hope for more from the U.S.

Be gentle

Your posts are excellent if I may say so and this one is also well taken.

Still, just read again the posts on only this page as an illustration of why the rightwingnuts consider your advice as a principle of posting to be soft in the head.

They don't only want to win every post, they want to bury you in it, to include every last liberal or progressive here. And for the obvious reasons, the more they lose the more personal and ad hominem they become. They have a special disrespect and disregard of polite and thoughtful poly sci majors so watch out (which I'd bet you also were).

Our focus is on them thx and I look froward to catching your posts everywhere at TVF.