Immigration / police visiting foreginers houses

[bluesofa]

So by my account we have Kap Choeng, Rayong, Rangon, Udon Thani, Nong Khai and now Amnat Choaroen. Next.

What are these local immigration offices you've listed above? Are you saying they are all doing home visits on retirement extensions - or is it something else?

[Singharh]

Immigration can visit any foreigner at any time in order to verify that they are here legally. It is their prerogative. Happens in all countries.

[Soutpeel]

Why it is thier business u give money to ur wifes? Its beyond me.

And do they visit ED visa holders yet?

They try and visit Ed visa holders but none are ever at the schools they are suppose to be attending, hence the crack down

[MyFriend You]

Why all the confusion anout what kind of extension he wanted: No where is he saying iot as a marraige Visa - his post:

"On the 10th August i went to Kap Choeng Immigration to renew my retirement visa."

seems pretty clear to me - lots of manure-house lawyers out there in TV forum aren't there.

Thanx Ubon Joe for all the previous clear posts you have submitted concerning Visa's - I normally just skip thru the lot looking for your answers now

[elviajero]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

[lostoday]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

What difference does it make where a retired guy lives? Who cares? You can live in a hotel or a condo or rent a house. What difference would it make? Your address is reported every 90 days anyway. They could visit you every 90 days buy why? Should they also check if they eat rice? What is the purpose? Marriage they are checking to see if the person is married. Retirement? What would indicate in a home if a person was retired? See the difference? Retired - old. Married - has wife.

[gregsmithy]

In answer to tlcwaterfall the office was Kapchoeng.

[gregsmithy]

TommyUk1960 - yes I am on a marriage extension but others I know on retirement extensions are getting the same treatment.

As for the village head it is easy to get him to do this sort of thing as they are always going to the local Amphur or signing official docs in the village for all locals, I assume its part of the job. He might think it a bit strange for a falang but the process of acting as a witness for people living in his village is normal.

[elviajero]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

What difference does it make where a retired guy lives? Who cares? You can live in a hotel or a condo or rent a house. What difference would it make? Your address is reported every 90 days anyway. They could visit you every 90 days buy why? Should they also check if they eat rice? What is the purpose? Marriage they are checking to see if the person is married. Retirement? What would indicate in a home if a person was retired? See the difference? Retired - old. Married - has wife.

"What difference does it make where a retired guy lives?"

None. But immigration want to know where everyone is living.

"Who cares?"

Immigration. It's their job. The immigration act obliges them to keep an up to date record of where everyone is staying

"You can live in a hotel or a condo or rent a house. What difference would it make?"

None. Your choice. But that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't check.

"Your address is reported every 90 days anyway."

Without proof and can be anonymous.

"Marriage they are checking to see if the person is married. Retirement?"

Some suggestions...... That they live at the address reported. Double checking income proof. Deterring the fraudsters. Checking the foreigner isn't the undesirable type that feel they can, "I would have shown them my domestic violence." (@stoneyboy) to immigration or anyone else.

"What would indicate in a home if a person was retired?"

That they are at home and not at work.

"See the difference?"

Nope. The purpose of visiting to is to confirm the legitimacy of the application.

Edited August 17, 2015 by elviajero

[lostoday]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

What difference does it make where a retired guy lives? Who cares? You can live in a hotel or a condo or rent a house. What difference would it make? Your address is reported every 90 days anyway. They could visit you every 90 days buy why? Should they also check if they eat rice? What is the purpose? Marriage they are checking to see if the person is married. Retirement? What would indicate in a home if a person was retired? See the difference? Retired - old. Married - has wife.

"What difference does it make where a retired guy lives?"

None. But immigration want to know where everyone is living.

"Who cares?"

Immigration. It's their job. The immigration act obliges them to keep an up to date record of where everyone is staying

"You can live in a hotel or a condo or rent a house. What difference would it make?"

None. Your choice. But that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't check.

"Your address is reported every 90 days anyway."

Without proof and can be anonymous.

"Marriage they are checking to see if the person is married. Retirement?"

Some suggestions...... That they live at the address reported. Double checking income proof. Deterring the fraudsters. Checking the foreigner isn't the undesirable type that feel they can, "I would have shown them my domestic violence." to immigration or anyone else.

"What would indicate in a home if a person was retired?"

That they are at home and not at work.

"See the difference?"

Nope. The purpose of visiting to is to confirm the legitimacy of the application.

Home visit is not to find out if you live there it is to find out if you are married. That's why it makes no sense to do home visits for retirement. The immigration dept are getting the two confused. A lot of guys take the Mrs. to Immigration when getting a retirement visa - this is unwise (in my opinion after having visited immigration 50 times alone).

Edited August 17, 2015 by lostoday

[chiang mai]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

A fair point, although I wonder what sort of checks need to be made on retirement visa holders and how they might possibly be fraudulent, in a way that a home visit might help clarify? I mean, you only need to be over 50 years of age to obtain a retirement visa so I wonder if you think that perhaps some people are lying about their age perhaps?

[MaeJoMTB]

First

If you applied for a retirement extension, how would they know you were married?

And if they did turn up unannounced, would they accuse any random woman there of being your wife?

(No, that's not my wife, she's on holiday in Europe for the next 4 months)

Second

What if you went on holiday for two weeks?

They could arrive unannounced as many times as they wanted and find nobody home.

Third

What if the applicant does beat his wife? Not against the law in Thailand.

What if he is a drunk? Not against the law anywhere.

What if he does take home whores? Not against the law in Thailand.

There are no 'morality' conditions attached to a retirement extension, it's just income and age.

Edited August 17, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[chiang mai]

TommyUk1960 - yes I am on a marriage extension but others I know on retirement extensions are getting the same treatment.

As for the village head it is easy to get him to do this sort of thing as they are always going to the local Amphur or signing official docs in the village for all locals, I assume its part of the job. He might think it a bit strange for a falang but the process of acting as a witness for people living in his village is normal.

"but others I know on retirement extensions are getting the same treatment".

I bet they're not really, I mean, what can the issue possibly be with a person on a retirement visa extension. Aha, gotcha you're nicked, you're not really 68 years old you're only 35!

[elviajero]

Home visit is not to find out if you live there it is to find out if you are married. That's why it makes no sense to do home visits for retirement. The immigration dept are getting the two confused.

Not only to check if the marriage is de facto but also to check the address given is the address you live at. I had a home visit for my extension before last. They wanted neighbours to affirm that I lived at the property.

Home visits are nothing to worry about if you've nothing to hide. The guys that visited me were polite, did their job and left.

You seem to be a little hung up on immigrations obligation and right to keep tabs on where you live. They are not the ones confused.

Someone on a retirement extension can live wherever they want and move as often as they want. But they have to keep immigration informed about permanent changes to where they are staying. When you give an address on an extension application, regardless of the category, immigration have the right to check that alone.

[hrjay]

My understanding is that an O type of visa can be either marriage or retirement and based on lots of forum threads expats go back and forth between the two. I haven't done an extension of stay yet but I have read it's just checking a box under reason of extension of stay, for retirement or marriage. Certainly the documentation is a bit different for either marriage or retirement, but It sounds like they are just checking on the long term stay folks. It's actually good to see them get out of the office. I think it is healthy for them and us. If they have computerized things, such as 90 day reports, then they better show they are keeping busy.

[mxyzptlk]

My understanding is that an O type of visa can be either marriage or retirement and based on lots of forum threads expats go back and forth between the two. I haven't done an extension of stay yet but I have read it's just checking a box under reason of extension of stay, for retirement or marriage. Certainly the documentation is a bit different for either marriage or retirement, but It sounds like they are just checking on the long term stay folks. It's actually good to see them get out of the office. I think it is healthy for them and us. If they have computerized things, such as 90 day reports, then they better show they are keeping busy.

You sound like you haven't read this thread or you don't understand the posts....

You've also sound like you have had little or no dealings with Immigration Offices within the Kingdom

Edited August 17, 2015 by mxyzptlk

[elviajero]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

A fair point, although I wonder what sort of checks need to be made on retirement visa holders and how they might possibly be fraudulent, in a way that a home visit might help clarify? I mean, you only need to be over 50 years of age to obtain a retirement visa so I wonder if you think that perhaps some people are lying about their age perhaps?

You don't "only need to be over 50" you have to supply proof of 800k in the bank or income to support your stay.

Are you not aware of the agents available to provide false income proof and use contacts within immigration to get applications through? So I guess a home visit might catch some of those out.

But if immigration are known to do visits it will make those that don't qualify to stay here less likely to apply, and the less abuse in the system means an easier life for the rest of us that do.

p.s. Those same agents, that have for years also provided illegitimately gained ED visas, are also a great part of the reason why legitimate ED visa holders are suffering extra scrutiny.

Edited August 17, 2015 by elviajero

[lostoday]

Home visit is not to find out if you live there it is to find out if you are married. That's why it makes no sense to do home visits for retirement. The immigration dept are getting the two confused.

Not only to check if the marriage is de facto but also to check the address given is the address you live at. I had a home visit for my extension before last. They wanted neighbours to affirm that I lived at the property.

Home visits are nothing to worry about if you've nothing to hide. The guys that visited me were polite, did their job and left.

You seem to be a little hung up on immigrations obligation and right to keep tabs on where you live. They are not the ones confused.

Someone on a retirement extension can live wherever they want and move as often as they want. But they have to keep immigration informed about permanent changes to where they are staying. When you give an address on an extension application, regardless of the category, immigration have the right to check that alone.

No they don't. You have to keep immigration informed of where you lived not where are now. In practice that means you can be 100% legal and not be where you told them you were if you take a holiday for less than 24 hours.

In reality immigration could never check where you are because you have no obligation to be there. All they can check is if you have a wife at home like you said you did. I know you don't get it but if you ask someone at immigration they will explain it to you.

Edited August 17, 2015 by lostoday

[chiang mai]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

A fair point, although I wonder what sort of checks need to be made on retirement visa holders and how they might possibly be fraudulent, in a way that a home visit might help clarify? I mean, you only need to be over 50 years of age to obtain a retirement visa so I wonder if you think that perhaps some people are lying about their age perhaps?

You don't "only need to be over 50" you have to supply proof of 800k in the bank or income to support your stay.

Are you not aware of the agents available to provide false income proof and use contacts within immigration to get applications through? So I guess a home visit might catch some of those out.

But if immigration are known to do visits it will make those that don't qualify to stay here less likely to apply, and the less abuse in the system means an easier life for the rest of us that do.

And you think that home visits by Immigration to check such things is more likely to detect such fraud, than the annual renewal process! If a person is using fraudulent documents to extend a retirement visa, those documents would have to be of sufficient quality to pass inspection at the annual extension interview, that being the case they will certainly pass inspection at a home inspection review!

But if the problem is with fraudulent Immigration staff giving a nod to unqualified applicants in exchange for financial reward, that would seem to be an internal Immigration issue that would warrant a home visit of a totally different person!

[lostoday]

Why shouldn't those on retirement extensions be subject to home visits as marriage extensions are. I'm sure there are plenty or fraudulent applications for both categories. Immigration have every right to check and doing random checks will help as a deterrent.

A fair point, although I wonder what sort of checks need to be made on retirement visa holders and how they might possibly be fraudulent, in a way that a home visit might help clarify? I mean, you only need to be over 50 years of age to obtain a retirement visa so I wonder if you think that perhaps some people are lying about their age perhaps?

You don't "only need to be over 50" you have to supply proof of 800k in the bank or income to support your stay.

Are you not aware of the agents available to provide false income proof and use contacts within immigration to get applications through? So I guess a home visit might catch some of those out.

But if immigration are known to do visits it will make those that don't qualify to stay here less likely to apply, and the less abuse in the system means an easier life for the rest of us that do.

p.s. Those same agents, that have for years also provided illegitimately gained ED visas, are also a great part of the reason why legitimate ED visa holders are suffering extra scrutiny.

You wrote, "Are you not aware of the agents available to provide false income proof and use contacts within immigration to get applications through? So I guess a home visit might catch some of those out." Why would a home visit check this out? The requirement is to have funds on deposit for 2 or 3 months not 12.

Edited August 17, 2015 by lostoday

[elviajero]

No they don't. They have to keep immigration informed of where you lived not where are now. In practice that means you can be 100% legal and not be where you told them you were if you take a holiday for less than 24 hours.

In reality immigration could never check where you are because you have no obligation to be there. All they can check is if you have a wife at home like you said you did. I know you don't get it but if you ask someone at immigration they will explain it to you.

Oh dear. Here we go again!

The last address given to immigration is considered your place of stay. If you want to go on holiday for a week or more, you can and you don't have to inform immigration if you are returning to that address. If you stay somewhere more than 24 hours your should report to the local police, not immigration. But nobody does, immigration do not enforce this part law and the police aren't interested.

If you permanently leave the address on file you are 100% obligated to submit a change of address with immigration and tell them where you going to stay.

[lostoday]

No they don't. They have to keep immigration informed of where you lived not where are now. In practice that means you can be 100% legal and not be where you told them you were if you take a holiday for less than 24 hours.

In reality immigration could never check where you are because you have no obligation to be there. All they can check is if you have a wife at home like you said you did. I know you don't get it but if you ask someone at immigration they will explain it to you.

Oh dear. Here we go again!

The last address given to immigration is considered your place of stay. If you want to go on holiday for a week or more, you can and you don't have to inform immigration if you are returning to that address. If you stay somewhere more than 24 hours your should report to the local police, not immigration. But nobody does, immigration do not enforce this part law and the police aren't interested.

If you permanently leave the address on file you are 100% obligated to submit a change of address with immigration and tell them where you going to stay.

I agree but nothing to prevent you leaving for a holiday and not being there when immigration comes. A hotel is a hotel you can come and go and stay perfectly legal. So it would be useless for immigration to use a home visit to verify address. Home visits are used to verify marriage.

[elviajero]

And you think that home visits by Immigration to check such things is more likely to detect such fraud, than the annual renewal process! If a person is using fraudulent documents to extend a retirement visa, those documents would have to be of sufficient quality to pass inspection at the annual extension interview, that being the case they will certainly pass inspection at a home inspection review!

But if the problem is with fraudulent Immigration staff giving a nod to unqualified applicants in exchange for financial reward, that would seem to be an internal Immigration issue that would warrant a home visit of a totally different person!

If they visit no one they have no chance of catching anyone. If they visit some applicants they might catch out a few. But sending a message that home visits are possible is a way of cutting down fraud.

I assume fraudulent retirement extension whistle through the system as they are mostly processed without a 30 day under consideration period. And I assume it's easy for those involved to get the applications approved and everyone gets paid. If they apply a 30 day under consideration period and have someone up the line make the final decision then maybe the number will be reduced. Throw in the threat of a random home visit and they will be reduced further.

I'm not trying to defend immigration I'm simply pointing out that fraudulent applications are made for both marriage and retirement extensions and if they are going to do home visits for one they should do it for the other. Someone providing false income of funds can easily be caught out with a home visit.

[Time Traveller]

Some posts and replies have been removed for various reasons. No further notice will be made when removed.

Hey, one of the posts removed was my reply to a comment. Could please pm me and explain what the problem was?

[tlcwaterfall]

And you think that home visits by Immigration to check such things is more likely to detect such fraud, than the annual renewal process! If a person is using fraudulent documents to extend a retirement visa, those documents would have to be of sufficient quality to pass inspection at the annual extension interview, that being the case they will certainly pass inspection at a home inspection review!

But if the problem is with fraudulent Immigration staff giving a nod to unqualified applicants in exchange for financial reward, that would seem to be an internal Immigration issue that would warrant a home visit of a totally different person!

If they visit no one they have no chance of catching anyone. If they visit some applicants they might catch out a few. But sending a message that home visits are possible is a way of cutting down fraud.

I assume fraudulent retirement extension whistle through the system as they are mostly processed without a 30 day under consideration period. And I assume it's easy for those involved to get the applications approved and everyone gets paid. If they apply a 30 day under consideration period and have someone up the line make the final decision then maybe the number will be reduced. Throw in the threat of a random home visit and they will be reduced further.

I'm not trying to defend immigration I'm simply pointing out that fraudulent applications are made for both marriage and retirement extensions and if they are going to do home visits for one they should do it for the other. Someone providing false income of funds can easily be caught out with a home visit.

"Someone providing false income of funds can easily be caught out with a home visit."

Please explain how a home visit will catch people that have made a false declaration of funds. Would love to know your answer to this question.

[elviajero]

No they don't. They have to keep immigration informed of where you lived not where are now. In practice that means you can be 100% legal and not be where you told them you were if you take a holiday for less than 24 hours.

In reality immigration could never check where you are because you have no obligation to be there. All they can check is if you have a wife at home like you said you did. I know you don't get it but if you ask someone at immigration they will explain it to you.

Oh dear. Here we go again!

The last address given to immigration is considered your place of stay. If you want to go on holiday for a week or more, you can and you don't have to inform immigration if you are returning to that address. If you stay somewhere more than 24 hours your should report to the local police, not immigration. But nobody does, immigration do not enforce this part law and the police aren't interested.

If you permanently leave the address on file you are 100% obligated to submit a change of address with immigration and tell them where you going to stay.

I agree but nothing to prevent you leaving for a holiday and not being there when immigration comes. A hotel is a hotel you can come and go and stay perfectly legal. So it would be useless for immigration to use a home visit to verify address. Home visits are used to verify marriage.

Agreed nothing. But if you've just applied for an extension and plan to go on holiday you should tell them so if they want to visit they can work around your holiday. If you don't tell them and they turn up the application will, as told to me by immigration, be cancelled and you'd have to re-apply or worse have to leave the country for a new visa. Hotel dwellers are not exempt.

If you are living in a hotel and are on a retirement extension you are still obliged to inform immigration of a change of address, if applicable. Whether you do or not is your choice, and after the extension has been approved it's highly unlikely, although possible, that you will ever get a visit.

Please read what I wrote. When immigration are doing home visits for marriage extensions they are also checking that you live there by getting neighbours to sign statements confirming. I know this for an absolute fact because they visited me.

[elviajero]

"Someone providing false income of funds can easily be caught out with a home visit."

Please explain how a home visit will catch people that have made a false declaration of funds. Would love to know your answer to this question.

How about if the IO asks to see original documents of the paperwork submitted with the application.

I've never dealt with these agents directly, but I've known several guys that have, none of which have a pot to pee in and work illegally. Somehow they are able to get retirement extensions. Once you figure out how they get around proving income/funds that they don't have when it is an unconditional requirement, maybe you can work out yourself how they could get caught out with a home visit.

Edited August 17, 2015 by elviajero

[lostoday]

I agree but nothing to prevent you leaving for a holiday and not being there when immigration comes. A hotel is a hotel you can come and go and stay perfectly legal. So it would be useless for immigration to use a home visit to verify address. Home visits are used to verify marriage.

Agreed nothing. But if you've just applied for an extension and plan to go on holiday you should tell them so if they want to visit they can work around your holiday. If you don't tell them and they turn up the application will, as told to me by immigration, be cancelled and you'd have to re-apply or worse have to leave the country for a new visa. Hotel dwellers are not exempt.

If you are living in a hotel and are on a retirement extension you are still obliged to inform immigration of a change of address, if applicable. Whether you do or not is your choice, and after the extension has been approved it's highly unlikely, although possible, that you will ever get a visit.

Please read what I wrote. When immigration are doing home visits for marriage extensions they are also checking that you live there by getting neighbours to sign statements confirming. I know this for an absolute fact because they visited me.

There is no requirement to tell immigration if you plan on a holiday after getting a retirement extension nor is there any requirement for a home visit. There is no penalty if you don't inform immigration if you are going on a holiday.

You are confusing retirement and marriage extension as is one rogue immigration office or perhaps one rogue immigration officer.

Immigration is checking to see if you are married and living with your wife when you apply for a marriage extension. I realize you think it is unfair but they don't do home checks for a retirement extensions except for 1 tenth of one percent of the total retirement extensions applied for.

What percent of home visits are done for retirement extensions in Kap Cheong? It would be interesting to know. It would be interesting to hear an immigration officer from Thailand explain why.

Instead of acquiescing to an extra and unproductive requirement why don't you ask? If it was me I would. I'd pay a Thai lawyer to go to immigration and ask why if I lived in the area. Or I'd ask the lawyer on Thai Visa what to do.

However I don't think you get a retirement extension do you?

Edited August 17, 2015 by lostoday

[lostoday]

"Someone providing false income of funds can easily be caught out with a home visit."

Please explain how a home visit will catch people that have made a false declaration of funds. Would love to know your answer to this question.

How about if the IO asks to see original documents of the paperwork submitted with the application.

I've never dealt with these agents directly, but I've known several guys that have, none of which have a pot to pee in and work illegally. Somehow they are able to get retirement extensions. Once you figure out how they get around proving income/funds that they don't have when it is an unconditional requirement, maybe you can work out yourself how they could get caught out with a home visit.

You are confused again. The funds don't have to be on deposit for 12 months or the length of the retirement extension.

[tlcwaterfall]

"Someone providing false income of funds can easily be caught out with a home visit."

Please explain how a home visit will catch people that have made a false declaration of funds. Would love to know your answer to this question.

How about if the IO asks to see original documents of the paperwork submitted with the application.

I've never dealt with these agents directly, but I've known several guys that have, none of which have a pot to pee in and work illegally. Somehow they are able to get retirement extensions. Once you figure out how they get around proving income/funds that they don't have when it is an unconditional requirement, maybe you can work out yourself how they could get caught out with a home visit.

Now you are talking about agents?

Even if the documents were fraudulent are you suggesting immigration will during a home visit ask to verify the applicants income? My understanding of a home visit is that immigration are seeking to prove you are actually living where you say you are living.

They already have all the financial documents given to them at the initial application.

Edited August 17, 2015 by tlcwaterfall