Yingluck criticises draft charter

[metisdead]

A number of off topic posts and replies have been removed. This is not about whether Yingluck was elected or not.

[Baerboxer]

Seriously, why do you still feel she's a high performing breath of fresh air?

Because she won the last democratic election in Thailand by a landslide majority. If there was a fair and democratic election in which the army chose to keep polling stations open today she would win another landslide. She is the choice of the people of Thailand,

She was the number 1 party list choice of the political party her brother owns. She was, as I said, perceived by many Thais I know, even by my wife as "breath of fresh air". Now those same people see her more as one of Thaksin's stale farts. And none would ever vote for her or any party she was connected with again. They feel badly let down by the Shins and their stooges. All those people attended the anti-Amnesty fiasco protests.

None of them take any comments associated with her, professing to be her comments seriously. They think they are simply churned out by the PR team and posted on her FB account for her.

She was away on trips at every opportunity, pontificated like a president rather than a PM, never bothered attending parliament, never bothered attending meetings she was supposed to chair, appointed herself Defense Minister, and was caught out lying on many occasions. She was removed from office by a court after dissolving parliament, despite vowing she'd never do that, another lie, and is facing court charges.

PTP did not receive "a landslide majority" of the votes. Less than 50% of votes cast were for them. They received the largest minority, which translated into a large majority of MP's seats as that's how the Thai system works. Even with that large majority in the house, and securing "coalition" partners to increase it further they had to resort to cheating, ignoring correct protocol and illegal activities.

So which parts of her performance do you consider stellar and verifying "her breath of fresh air status"?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

Good to see her back and in top form..a breath of fresh air..

She doesn't know what top form is, suppose the rice thinking was top form---and tablet----why the heck do you condone the women that led though her brother the downfall of a sworn in government

Your comments therefore are a wind up, considering what she is charged with and how she was barely in the country during her PM ship. Thai tanic sure.

Quote-" Breath of fresh air).

She was the last popularly elected Prime Minister in Thailand. For her to say nothing, would be a travesty. You are entitled to your opinion and so is she, or is there something we do not understand ?

She was the last elected PM of Thailand. She was the last PM of Thailand to be removed by a court.

She said she was the defender of democracy and vowed to defend it till the end. But she also vowed to pay the farmers next week but lied, one of many lies.

Her credibility, based on previous performance, is not very high to say the least.

She may well be right, but I doubt she said, wrote or even thought those words. The PR team and big brother did, as always,

[Baerboxer]

Yingluck echoes Thaksin's scorn of charter draft

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Just two days after her brother voiced opposition to the charter, ex-pm Yingluck Shinawatra Monday offered her concerns about the new charter draft.

In particular, her criticism targeted the draft's planned design for the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee (NSRRC). She claimed it would have more power than the government and Parliament.

Posting on her personal Facebook page, Yingluck said having such a commission to make a decision when the country encountered a crisis was unnecessary.

"A democratic charter links the people and allows the majority of people to make a decision. Having a selected group of people (to make a decision for the people) is not truly democracy,'' she said.

Speaking in Finland and seen on a YouTube clip released on Friday, ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra called on democracy advocates to oppose the charter draft, saying if passed it would be the country's worst.

He said that most Thais did not accept the charter draft and democracy enthusiasts should reject all undemocratic principles in it.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Yingluck-echoes-Thaksins-scorn-of-charter-draft-30266752.html

-- The Nation 2015-08-17

Very nice of Thaksin to decide what most Thais should think of the charter and tell them too. No need for referendums with Thaksin about, he can decide what's good for the majority, no need to ask them.

Typically arrogance from the criminal fugitive - whoops, he's innocent of everything ever, he said so too on CNN.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Baerboxer

[LannaGuy]

She will go down in history as a true, gentle and elegant fighter for the Thai poor and repressed

[Baerboxer]

Well the junta junkies on the forum are too embarrassed by the joke draft charter to say anything other than to attack YL. Thailand deserves better than the rubbish being served up on this draft and the people will not accept it ...regardless of what Thaksin or YL say or do not say.

That's something for the Thai people to decide - and yes, they do deserve something better than control by one or two rich elite factions of billionaires.

However those posters pretending that Thaksin and Yingluck are credible, unbiased, champions of democracy are having a laugh, or very sad.

[Baerboxer]

She will go down in history as a true, gentle and elegant fighter for the Thai poor and repressed

Yeah right. Maybe in your version.

Or might be she'll go down as a pretty puppet proxy for her criminal fugitive brother who was removed by a court of law for abusing her power, and - we'll have to wait for the court cases to be resolved to finish that.

The most inexperienced PM who attended parliament and committees the least but set new records for air miles whilst in office.

[Baerboxer]

"BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra has criticised the draft constitution which is to be voted by the Constitution Drafting Committee on September 7, saying the constitution must be tied to the people and must serve the people."

The sheer barefaced cheek,coming from the woman whose Party organised a secret vote on the constitution in Parliament at 4-0 am,voting by invitation only!

You may not like the messenger but the message needs to be heeded...............

................"must be tied to the people and must serve the people."....................

After the fiasco which brought her government down, she has no right to comment on anything to do with serving the people.

Then again, she was probably told what to say.

Let's be honest with ourselves, neither the present nor the previous governments really had/have the people in mind when big decisions like Constitutions are made.

If so, neither side would need amnesties, if everything they did was good and right.

The fiasco that brought her govt. down was the PRDC & army insurrection.

Amnesties were needed to right previous judicial coups & purges.

The Amnesty was needed by her brother to escape a jail sentence, possible charges for jumping bail, and wipe those 15 outstanding serious charges off the slate before he dared to return. The opportunity to whitewash the whole clan and gang as well was too good to miss.

They completely misjudged the reaction of the Thai people, believing their own bs PR about how much the people just love that family.

Abusing her power and ignoring protocol to place a family lackey in a key position is what got her removed. But hey, she was just following orders.

[rubl]

You may not like the messenger but the message needs to be heeded...............

................"must be tied to the people and must serve the people."....................

After the fiasco which brought her government down, she has no right to comment on anything to do with serving the people.

Then again, she was probably told what to say.

Let's be honest with ourselves, neither the present nor the previous governments really had/have the people in mind when big decisions like Constitutions are made.

If so, neither side would need amnesties, if everything they did was good and right.

The fiasco that brought her govt. down was the PRDC & army insurrection.

Amnesties were needed to right previous judicial coups & purges.

The Amnesty was needed by her brother to escape a jail sentence, possible charges for jumping bail, and wipe those 15 outstanding serious charges off the slate before he dared to return. The opportunity to whitewash the whole clan and gang as well was too good to miss.

They completely misjudged the reaction of the Thai people, believing their own bs PR about how much the people just love that family.

Abusing her power and ignoring protocol to place a family lackey in a key position is what got her removed. But hey, she was just following orders.

"Amnesties were needed to right previous judicial coups & purges." ??

"“In considering the draft bill that was proposed on the first reading, MPs accepted the principle of only giving amnesty to the people,” said Assoc. Prof. Worachet Pakeerut at a public seminar at Thammasat University.

“So when the Ad Hoc Parliamentary Committee altered the draft bill, it violated Article 117 Paragraph 3 of the Rules of Parliamentary Procedure, and consequently also contradicted the Constitution.” "

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3731

Even those heroes, Thammasat students stood outside Pheu Thai headquarters to protest the blanket amnesty bill as distorting rule of law. That's what democracy means to Yingluck and Pheu Thai. Hypocrisy comes to mind.

[rubl]

She will go down in history as a true, gentle and elegant fighter for the Thai poor and repressed

Don't cry for me, Thailand? I guess Thailand won't.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck doesn't like the draft charter. Good she finally read the April draft. Probably too busy writing notes for her performance at the Supreme Court. Anyway as usual she didn't seem to have said much, or much meaningful.

"She said democratic constitution must tie to the people and allow the people to make their own decisions, not from selected group to make decisions on their behalf."

Seems she forgot the 'we have a mandate', or the "please go home, there's more to do".

"To restore peace in the country, she said there must be fair rules in society."

Seems strange when she gets upset being asked to take responsibility and not avoid accountability. One for me and my brother and one for the people?

[MaiChai]

I bet she didn't write that herself? If she was such a good communicator of principles, why was she never in Parliament voicing her opinion, debating and arguing her point? Because she can't?

Edited August 17, 2015 by MaiChai

[MAJIC]

Good to see her back and in top form..a breath of fresh air..

Prbkk

I am sorry to say that your idea of "a breath of fresh of fresh air is very much lower than mine," but do keep up the effort!

[pmugghc]

Interesting timing with the bombs tonight.

[webfact]

POLITICS
Yingluck echoes Thaksin's scorn
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- JUST TWO DAYS after her brother voiced opposition to the charter, ex-PM Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday offered her concerns about the new charter draft.

In particular, her criticism targeted the draft's planned design for the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee (NSRRC). She claimed it would have more power than the government and Parliament.

Posting on her Facebook page, Yingluck said having such a comittee to make a decision when the country encountered a crisis was unnecessary.

"A democratic charter links the people and allows the majority of people to make a decision. Having a selected group of people [to make a decision for the people] is not truly democracy,'' she said.

Last week during a trip to Finland, ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra called on democracy advocates to oppose the charter draft, saying if passed it would be the country's worst.

In a speech released on YouTube on Friday, he said that most Thais did not accept the charter draft and democracy enthusiasts should reject all undemocratic principles in it.

Meanwhile, a group of former Pheu Thai Party MPs, led by Samart Kaewmeechai, filed a complaint with Constitution Drafting Committee chairman Borwornsak Uwanno to amend the charter draft by ensuring sovereignty belonged to the people.

He said the party wanted changes in three areas - a non-elected PM, the eligibility of 200 senators, and depriving impeached politicians of their political rights for life.

Samart said his party rejected the provision, which he claimed allowed a "continuation of dictatorship" by having the Cabinet select 123 Senators and bestow a special power to the 23-member NSRRC members to resolve national crises.

"The charter writers likened this provision to preparing a fire brigade truck ready to put out fires. But I am afraid that an ill-intentioned group would set the fire so that the fire brigade truck was put to use,'' he said.

He questioned if these provisions were aimed at continuing the power of the junta. "The commission finally will turn into a dictatorial commission,'' Samart said.

Samart disagreed with the proposal to ask the public in a plebiscite about having a national government that consisted of the Pheu Thai Party and the Democrats, since the two parties had different ideologies.

"We have different policies and the government would not be stable. This national government also comes with strings attached - of having a non-elected PM,'' he said.

He questioned if the charter writers included these provisions so they would be rejected by political parties. That would mean the draft would not pass a public referendum and a new charter draft would need to be re-written.

The Pheu Thai Party wanted to launch campaigns to educate people about the charter, provided the National Council for Peace and Order allows it, Samart said.

The CDC held a secret meeting yesterday to review provisions that face heavy criticism, he said. The CDC has until Saturday to amend the charter draft before forwarding it to the National Reform Council for a vote.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-echoes-Thaksins-scorn-30266796.html


-- The Nation 2015-08-18

[smedly]

Yingluck echoes Thaksin's scorn

we hear you loud and clear

[GeckosDiving]

Seriously, why do you still feel she's a high performing breath of fresh air?

Because she won the last democratic election in Thailand by a landslide majority. If there was a fair and democratic election in which the army chose to keep polling stations open today she would win another landslide. She is the choice of the people of Thailand,

[ramrod711]

"BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra has criticised the draft constitution which is to be voted by the Constitution Drafting Committee on September 7, saying the constitution must be tied to the people and must serve the people."

The sheer barefaced cheek,coming from the woman whose Party organised a secret vote on the constitution in Parliament at 4-0 am,voting by invitation only!

uh, that would have been the 3rd reading of the amnesty bill, not changes to the constitution, and everyone was invited, the opposition walked out of the vote... voluntarily...

They were invited? Please sell that crap to someone who might buy. The Democrats were told that the vote wouldn't happen until the next day, someone forgot to mention it would be at 04:00. Typical of the party, the leader and Thaksin Shinawatra. Ask yourself one question, why would a bunch of people from democratic countries be in favor of a coup. The first reason, for me at least, was the violence, the murders and the red shirts cheering the deaths. The second thing was the banner urging the north to split apart from the rest of the country. I want to see democracy restored, right after there is something in place to make sure that none of this has to happen again.

"Bangkok — Thailand’s House of Representatives passed second and third readings of the controversial blanket amnesty bill early Friday morning after opposition Democratic Party MPs walked out in the face of defeat."

http://freedistrict.com/asia/thailand/thai-house-passes-blanket-amnesty-as-democrats-walk-out-4290.html

By the way, how did you like the yellow shirts/PRDC cheering the popcorn gunner who crippled an old man? Hypocrite!

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about. Let me explain Parliamentary rules to you. It is against the rules to alter a bill between readings, the bill becomes invalid. The bill was altered between the first and second readings which made the rest of the proceedings moot. You are welcome for the lesson, anytime, you can certainly use it.

[halloween]

get the facts, guy... I gave them to you, but if you don't want to believe me, then get the facts ... yourself.

When you offer "facts" it's ALWAYS a good idea to check them yourself.

[oneday]

"...the draft's planned design for the National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee (NSRRC). She claimed it would have more power than the government and Parliament..."

Yes, it's like parent, we know who that is, that wants to let his children go out and play, but he just can't relinquish total control and so Democracy is still just a gleam in someone's eye if this draft becomes law.

[Muirton]

Nothing gets lager-louts, sexpats and fascists foaming like the word "Yingluck". Off these chaps charge in a nano-second, spittle messing up their Pinochet screensaver.

[gabruce]

"BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra has criticised the draft constitution which is to be voted by the Constitution Drafting Committee on September 7, saying the constitution must be tied to the people and must serve the people."

The sheer barefaced cheek,coming from the woman whose Party organised a secret vote on the constitution in Parliament at 4-0 am,voting by invitation only!

uh, that would have been the 3rd reading of the amnesty bill, not changes to the constitution, and everyone was invited, the opposition walked out of the vote... voluntarily...

At 4-0 am the only party invited was Yinglucks Party,everyone was not invited,the opposition could not have walked out because they were not there. Next you will be telling me that Parliamentary voting is quite normal at 4-0 am!

get the facts, guy... I gave them to you, but if you don't want to believe me, then get the facts ... yourself.

If you are talking about the Senate vote I thought it was very clear at the time. The PT Speaker (or whatever the supposedly neutral leader is called) told everyone that the session was closed, everyone went home, then they had a vote with only PT supporters as only they knew that the Senate wasn't really closing. That caused a big furor and I remember that it was a very underhanded trick.

Purely my recollection and perhaps flawed.

[lvr181]

The rich/powerful hate their "toys" being taken away from them

[klauskunkel]

JUST TWO DAYS after her brother voiced opposition to the charter, ex-PM Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday offered her concerns about the new charter draft.

Posting on her Facebook page

She discovered the "Copy & Paste" technique. It's nice to see people applying what they learned so hard.

[empireboy]

One would hardly expect either of them to applaud!

[rubl]

Since the CDC will not make the new draft publicly avaliable before sending it to the NRC, Ms. Yingluck either comments on the draft version made available in April, or she had 'elite privileged' access to the new draft.

For the moment let's assume she finally found time to comment on the April draft version. She's a busy woman as all know.

[ginjag]

She will go down in history as a true, gentle and elegant fighter for the Thai poor and repressed

She will go down sure. ha ha ha

[oldsailor35]

"BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra has criticised the draft constitution which is to be voted by the Constitution Drafting Committee on September 7, saying the constitution must be tied to the people and must serve the people."

The sheer barefaced cheek,coming from the woman whose Party organised a secret vote on the constitution in Parliament at 4-0 am,voting by invitation only!

But i notice that you don't deny that she is right in what she is saying

[oldsailor35]

Good to see her back and in top form..a breath of fresh air..

Yes, she is probably the most genuinely honest one amongst the lot of Thai politicians and Khun Suthep is at the other end of the spectrum, with Abishit dithering somewhere in the middle.

Edited August 18, 2015 by oldsailor35

[oldsailor35]

Good to see her back and in top form..a breath of fresh air..

Please explain to us why you feel like this? What did she do in her years in office to make you feel she a "breath of fresh air"?

A pretty, with some nice photo ops. Plenty of travelling. Flirting with Obama.

But hardly a parliamentary heavyweight, no debates, no question time, did as told, tried to keep well away from everything?

My wife and a considerable number of her friends voted for her, and though she would be that "breath of fresh air" Thai politics needed (they used that exact expression). Now they see her more as one of Thaksin's stale farts.

Seriously, why do you still feel she's a high performing breath of fresh air?

My My , you anti Shins certainly are a paranoid , terrified lot are'nt you. What will you all do when Khun Thaksin comes back

[oldsailor35]

"She said the Thai society had learned from many past lessons that conflict in society derived from unfair rules that did not ensure equal justice for all"...

...whined the woman under whose administration the ruling party tried to push through in the deep of night a controversial amnesty law that would have benefited a comparatively small amount of wrongdoers, including one of her immediate family members.

And that was allegedly done following the concept that "...Democratic rule that wins worldwide acceptance must have peoples confidence and must return power to the people"? I doubt it.

Who cares what she has or hasnt done. That is totally irrelevant.

My view is that I completely agree with what she said.

So how about some posters get their head out of the comics and actually say something about why they disagree.

Just saying she is hopeless does not get to the subject and makes you look stupid.

I agree the Autobahns in Germany were a fantastic idea, but I don't like Hitler.

I agree everyone should be equal, in a meritocracy and all treated fairly, but I don't like Stalin.

Some people do things or say things which are commendable but their opposite traits far out way the good. Extreme examples.

Maybe you should read a little about democracy, what's necessary to support it, and how fragile it is; susceptible to manipulation and exploitation without robust checks, balances, judicial systems etc.

She has been caught lying many times, avoided all debate and parliamentary discussions whenever possible, and made ludicrous statements on occasion. When delivering the odd speech or being interviewed on TV she came across very poorly to say the least. Even in Thai, so language isn't the only issue.

Someone's past performance tends to reflect on their credibility. Here, her brother comes out strongly against the charter, followed by the acting leader of the PTP party, which is the party her family own, followed by her ghost writer on FB, She is simply jumping on the bandwagon. Who next, number 1 cousin the former FM or Chalerm or Mister White Lies finance?

The Shins preaching about democracy and serving the people is hypocrisy. They were never interested in either when in office, nor obeying the law, nor following any rules but their own.

Take your own head out where the sun don't shine and open your mind in the fresh air.

None of which means I agree with the new charter. But the Thai people will vote on that. The Shins don't want any change that doesn't favor themselves or their agenda. Nothing to do with democracy or serving the people.

And are the Dems any different, get real TIT.