Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[loonodingle]

And remember Andy Halls statement about receiving "Fantastic" information from the UK.

I would suggest using the word Fantastic is a bold statement when the case is in trial.

These are milestones to remember in this trial I think.

[KunMatt]

RTP apologists and Nomsod shielders have been telling us (those of us seeking truth and justice) for nearly a year ...."just wait until the trial starts. Then all will be made clear. The Police are professionals and they know a whole lot more about this crime then any of us do."

Some of them even projected their wrong-headed fantasy to include the families: "How can you second guess the victims' families?! They were briefed by British experts. They know a lot more about the case than we do....."

Well, Nomsod lovers, you're flat out 100% wrong. The trial has been proving what we said all along: The RTP doesn't have a clue, literally. Actually, I thought the RTP would pull a better ruse than they have shown thus far. Are they intentionally bumbling even more than they would ordinarily bumble? The mind reels.

It's a little bit to early for you to say the trial has been proving everything wrong and why are you bringing Nomsods name into this , he is not on trial .

I think we should wait until the trial has finished before we should come up with a conclusion .

You might be right about RTP and the coverup but it will always end up as speculations until we have evidence that will stand up in court.

Now since this is a Thai court and two Burmese guys are on trial , you will not accept any possible "facts" from the police anyway , and we all know the most likely outcome will end up with them being released . If that happens speculations and rumors will carry on for years to come . Maybe even on Thaivisa.

As I said before, you are always quick to defend Nomsod and his family, I always wonder why if you are as impartial as you claim to be, why is that?

Let me ask you somethingl why do you think he is attached to this case? Is it all dreamt up by people gossiping on the internet?

Or is it because the original police chief, Panya Mamen, identified him and his uncle Mon as the original murder suspects and said they he had gathered enough CCTV footage which "implicated them in the murders"? Then suddenly the police chief was switched, the CCTV footage disappears and now we have a ridiculously pathetic trial against 2 Burmese guys which is not holding up in court and is based on no hard evidence against them. How can you have CCTV video which implicates someone in a murder and then the next day you change your mind and the footage is not available for anyone else to see?

Do you think that is why Nomsod's name is associated with this case?

[stephenterry]

Actually, what the trial is proving is that the doomsayers that claimed they would not receive a fair trial were completely wrong. Certainly what the trial is not doing is proving any of your fantasies regarding people of whom you don't even know their names right.

Incidentally, talking about trials proving things.

"Khaosod newspaper apologized for two headlines suggesting the Warot Toovichian, the son of a village chief on Koh Tao, was responsible for the savage murders of British tourists David Miller and Hannah Witheridge on the island.

The newspaper also accused Warot, 22, of being the son of local “mafia” in two articles published on 24 and 25 Sept.

“We have verified facts and discovered that the aforementioned news items were inaccurate,” a statement published in today’s newspaper read.

It added the newspaper paid compensation of an undisclosed amount to Warot’s family."

The Kaosod newspaper admitting it called the Headman 'mafia' doesn't mean that Kaosod was wrong in using that word. All it means is it was demeaning to the Headman's family. If I call ISIS a 'terrorist organization' and ISIS sued me for defamation, then they would probably win. But it doesn't negate the fact that ISIS are terrorists.

Anyone familiar with Thailand knows that defamation of character lawsuits are readily used by rich and influential people to try and shut others down. Thaksin was particularly famous for such lawsuits. He tried to sue a young newspaper reporter for writing some some truth about his corrupt activities. The case didn't rest on whether the reporter was right or wrong in her assertion. It only rested on whether Thaksin was defamed by such revelations. Similar to the recent Headman's lawsuit.

Defamation of character lawsuits are also a major reason why Thailand does not have any debates leading up to elections. Candidates are too spooked by being sued. The big losers are the Thai people, and that's a big reason why they keep electing poor quality politicians.

Thai Penal Code Section 330: In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished.

That's interesting. Didn't know that. Thanks. However, the paper can't prove either of the two published statements - although I'm sure most of the islanders would agree with the mafia allegation. I suppose 'verifying the facts' is no more than pointing out to them that Nomsod is not on trial, although probably a lot on here would put him in the frame - along with several of his thuggish rapist mates.

[AleG]

Of course you can't provide an example, it's better to insinuate and make allegations, typical CYAism.

I have not seen one single report showing any of the court proceedings as being biased or unfair against the defendants, not one, zero, none.

Ask at the end of the trial if/when the court finds them guilty even with no evidence.

Plus there is no court transcript and no note taking allowed. That in itself opens the court to bias.

The press not being allowed to take notes during the court sessions, as it normal under the Thai justice system, has no bearing on whether the court proceedings are fair or not towards the men on trial.

You are simply looking at a closed box and deciding what's inside according to whatever preconception you hold.

So far from what I've seen from this trial the judge has been very accommodating towards the defense.

[webfact]

Rohingya translator in the Koh Tao murder case admits he barely understood the accused confession

KOH SAMUI: -- Yesterday in the Koh Samui Provincial Court it was revealed that Ko Ye, one of the two Muslim Rohingya translators who initially interrogated Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin who stand accused of the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, could not read or write Thai and barely understands the Rakhine dialect used by the accused.

When put under questioning by the defense team he said that he signed a statement confirming what happened during the interrogation even though he did not know what it said as it was in Thai, he went on to admit that he was not asked to sign the document until a month after the interrogation.

The two translators, both Rohingya Muslims are roti sellers who were brought in by the police after the accused were detained last October. The defense team maintains that the accused Rakhine men are being used as scapegoats. They also say they are very confused as to how a man with a very poor grasp of the Thai language could have been used to translate for the Thai police.

The accused, Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo have both accused the police and the translators of torture in order to extract the confession they have since recanted, something the roti sellers deny.
The mothers of the accused were in court during the hearing, the mother of Wei Phyo became visibly distressed when the court played a video of Wei Phyo’s confession and could be heard wailing before she had to leave the room.

The next hearing dates are the 27th and 28th of August


-- Samui Times 2015-08-24

[Gulfsailor]

Take 2: Thai Penal Code Section 330: In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished.

It suggests that one have one's proof lined up before making any potentially libelous

statement and not try to assemble such proof in arrears

.

When you cite section 330 from the penal code, please cite it in its entirety. The second part of the section reads:

"But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public."

That means there needs to be strong public benefit for making the accusation or comment. If it is not strong enough, truth is NOT a defense.

Thai courts have repeatedly made judgements against alleged slanderers, not allowing them to use the truth defense, because there was not a strong enough public interest. Thaksin's corruption cases come to mind, but also the current Natural Fruit vs Andy Hall trial. Both cases in my opinion are about public interest to know the truth, but clearly the court ruled differently. Hence I understand why KhaoSod settled out of court. It didn't matter if they had proof of their claims, as there was a good chance it wouldn't be allowed to be used as a defense.

[thailandchilli]

Of course you can't provide an example, it's better to insinuate and make allegations, typical CYAism.

I have not seen one single report showing any of the court proceedings as being biased or unfair against the defendants, not one, zero, none.

Ask at the end of the trial if/when the court finds them guilty even with no evidence.

Plus there is no court transcript and no note taking allowed. That in itself opens the court to bias.

The press not being allowed to take notes during the court sessions, as it normal under the Thai justice system, has no bearing on whether the court proceedings are fair or not towards the men on trial.

You are simply looking at a closed box and deciding what's inside according to whatever preconception you hold.

So far from what I've seen from this trial the judge has been very accommodating towards the defense.

I see the human rights lawyers must also be looking at this 'closed box'

KOH SAMUI -International observer from monitoring agency Solicitors International Human Rights Group complained to the judges that he was not allowed to keep a written account of the trial the murder trial of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, on the Thai Gulf island of Koh Tao.

Journalists and other observers have been banned from taking notes or making any recordings since the first day of the trial. According to the Thai legal system, permission to take notes is at the discretion of the judges. Despite the complaint, the judges yesterday declined to lift the ban. http://www.chiangraitimes.com/solicitors-from-international-human-rights-group-banned-from-taking-notes-in-koh-tao-murder-trial.html

[Rykbanlor]

Take 2: Thai Penal Code Section 330: In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished.

It suggests that one have one's proof lined up before making any potentially libelous

statement and not try to assemble such proof in arrears

.

When you cite section 330 from the penal code, please cite it in its entirety. The second part of the section reads:

"But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public."

That means there needs to be strong public benefit for making the accusation or comment. If it is not strong enough, truth is NOT a defense.

Thai courts have repeatedly made judgements against alleged slanderers, not allowing them to use the truth defense, because there was not a strong enough public interest. Thaksin's corruption cases come to mind, but also the current Natural Fruit vs Andy Hall trial. Both cases in my opinion are about public interest to know the truth, but clearly the court ruled differently. Hence I understand why KhaoSod settled out of court. It didn't matter if they had proof of their claims, as there was a good chance it wouldn't be allowed to be used as a defense.

Wow, excellent, and shocking post.

[Rykbanlor]

Of course you can't provide an example, it's better to insinuate and make allegations, typical CYAism.

I have not seen one single report showing any of the court proceedings as being biased or unfair against the defendants, not one, zero, none.

Ask at the end of the trial if/when the court finds them guilty even with no evidence.

Plus there is no court transcript and no note taking allowed. That in itself opens the court to bias.

The press not being allowed to take notes during the court sessions, as it normal under the Thai justice system, has no bearing on whether the court proceedings are fair or not towards the men on trial.

You are simply looking at a closed box and deciding what's inside according to whatever preconception you hold.

So far from what I've seen from this trial the judge has been very accommodating towards the defense.

Disallowing note taking in the court, and having no transcripts, in my mind undemines the transparency of any court case in the Kingdom. It's their system and theirs to change or keep, but that doesn't mean for a minute that makes for a fair trial.

The judge is obliged to be accomodating to the defense, he doesn't need to be praised for it. The judicial system in Thailand is globally noted for it's weakness and it's capacity to be manipulated, but we have been over this before.

[mike313]

"The prosecution case is weak"

Correction, if I may be so bold, the prosecution case is non-existent. To me the single most astounding thing I have read so far (among many astounding things) is the report that the RTP did not test the alleged murder weapon for finger prints or DNA (assuming this is true as I, as others, have seen some video of the hoe being swabbed – inconvenient prints/DNA perhaps?). If only one thing was needed to sum up this travesty it is this. How can there be a murder trial without a weapon? Or a believable motive?

Last year JDA or JTJ (I can’t remember which and apologies for bringing them up) referred several times to the “overwhelming evidence” against the B2. Well after 10 (11?) days of the prosecution presenting their case we have yet to hear of a single piece of evidence of any kind other than claims of a DNA match which to me, coming from the RTP, qualifies as hearsay - and even if correct only goes to rape not murder as has been stated a number of times. I am a little puzzled why the defense asked for new samples if the RTP was to be involved in any way. Do we know for sure the chain of custody of these new samples? I see references to the results being "returned directly to the defense" but what happens to them before this? IMHO there has been way too much emphasis on the DNA unless there is a silver bullet coming from the UK (assuming it will be admissible).

And, for what it’s worth, a couple of weeks ago I met a young lady from Norfolk who works with Hannah’s cousin. She told me the family absolutely does NOT believe what they were told. Sorry shills, I can’t post a link since I wasn’t wearing a wire.

"and even if correct only goes to rape not murder"

So what you are saying is they raped her and then went home to bed, and someone else came along and killed Hannah and David.

[thailandchilli]

"The prosecution case is weak"

Correction, if I may be so bold, the prosecution case is non-existent. To me the single most astounding thing I have read so far (among many astounding things) is the report that the RTP did not test the alleged murder weapon for finger prints or DNA (assuming this is true as I, as others, have seen some video of the hoe being swabbed – inconvenient prints/DNA perhaps?). If only one thing was needed to sum up this travesty it is this. How can there be a murder trial without a weapon? Or a believable motive?

Last year JDA or JTJ (I can’t remember which and apologies for bringing them up) referred several times to the “overwhelming evidence” against the B2. Well after 10 (11?) days of the prosecution presenting their case we have yet to hear of a single piece of evidence of any kind other than claims of a DNA match which to me, coming from the RTP, qualifies as hearsay - and even if correct only goes to rape not murder as has been stated a number of times. I am a little puzzled why the defense asked for new samples if the RTP was to be involved in any way. Do we know for sure the chain of custody of these new samples? I see references to the results being "returned directly to the defense" but what happens to them before this? IMHO there has been way too much emphasis on the DNA unless there is a silver bullet coming from the UK (assuming it will be admissible).

And, for what it’s worth, a couple of weeks ago I met a young lady from Norfolk who works with Hannah’s cousin. She told me the family absolutely does NOT believe what they were told. Sorry shills, I can’t post a link since I wasn’t wearing a wire.

"and even if correct only goes to rape not murder"

So what you are saying is they raped her and then went home to bed, and someone else came along and killed Hannah and David.

No thats what your saying, "phuketandsee" did not venture to speculate on who else may have been there in that scenario and if they were there before the B2 came along, along with the B2 or after the B2.

[KunMatt]

Rohingya translator in the Koh Tao murder case admits he barely understood the accused confession

KOH SAMUI: -- Yesterday in the Koh Samui Provincial Court it was revealed that Ko Ye, one of the two Muslim Rohingya translators who initially interrogated Wei Phyo and Zaw Lin who stand accused of the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, could not read or write Thai and barely understands the Rakhine dialect used by the accused.

When put under questioning by the defense team he said that he signed a statement confirming what happened during the interrogation even though he did not know what it said as it was in Thai, he went on to admit that he was not asked to sign the document until a month after the interrogation.

The two translators, both Rohingya Muslims are roti sellers who were brought in by the police after the accused were detained last October. The defense team maintains that the accused Rakhine men are being used as scapegoats. They also say they are very confused as to how a man with a very poor grasp of the Thai language could have been used to translate for the Thai police.

The accused, Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo have both accused the police and the translators of torture in order to extract the confession they have since recanted, something the roti sellers deny.

The mothers of the accused were in court during the hearing, the mother of Wei Phyo became visibly distressed when the court played a video of Wei Phyo’s confession and could be heard wailing before she had to leave the room.

The next hearing dates are the 27th and 28th of August

-- Samui Times 2015-08-24

Has it been mentioned how the Roti sellers are giving evidence in court? Are they speaking Thai or using translators?

[JLCrab]

Take 2: Thai Penal Code Section 330: In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished.

It suggests that one have one's proof lined up before making any potentially libelous

statement and not try to assemble such proof in arrears

.

When you cite section 330 from the penal code, please cite it in its entirety. The second part of the section reads:

"But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public."

That means there needs to be strong public benefit for making the accusation or comment. If it is not strong enough, truth is NOT a defense.

Thai courts have repeatedly made judgements against alleged slanderers, not allowing them to use the truth defense, because there was not a strong enough public interest. Thaksin's corruption cases come to mind, but also the current Natural Fruit vs Andy Hall trial. Both cases in my opinion are about public interest to know the truth, but clearly the court ruled differently. Hence I understand why KhaoSod settled out of court. It didn't matter if they had proof of their claims, as there was a good chance it wouldn't be allowed to be used as a defense.

Wow, excellent, and shocking post.

The problem with Mr. Hall and the Natural Fruit case is that Mr. Hall and FinnWatch made their complaints against the company based upon anonymous witnesses who declined any opportunity to make such claims in open Court.

Whether a newspaper who publishes news because they believe such news is worthy for the public to know would then be deemed by a court even in Thailand to be not in the public interest is speculation.

If the KhaoSod Newspaper actually had proof of their headline, that was later retracted, as to whom might be responsible for the murders other than the 2 that are currently on trial, that would be a whole 'nother matter, wouldn't it?

[BritTim]

Has it been mentioned how the Roti sellers are giving evidence in court? Are they speaking Thai or using translators?

Their evidence was given in Thai. However, the Thai of one of them was so bad that the answers he gave could not be understood.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

what a farce. The BIB should just drop the case now. It won't do much to save the face they lost so far but at least it will put an end to this embarrassment for them.

We all knew they were inept but even I am shocked at just how inept they really are. Absolutely shocking!!!

[KunMatt]

what a farce. The BIB should just drop the case now. It won't do much to save the face they lost so far but at least it will put an end to this embarrassment for them.

We all knew they were inept but even I am shocked at just how inept they really are. Absolutely shocking!!!

No no, there are still people in this thread who will have you believe that the RTP are doing a fine job and the case they put together was perfect.

Although the numbers of the old faithful shills in here has dropped significantly over the last week or so. Do you think they have finally given up try to defend the indefensible?

[Rykbanlor]

what a farce. The BIB should just drop the case now. It won't do much to save the face they lost so far but at least it will put an end to this embarrassment for them.

We all knew they were inept but even I am shocked at just how inept they really are. Absolutely shocking!!!

No no, there are still people in this thread who will have you believe that the RTP are doing a fine job and the case they put together was perfect.

Although the numbers of the old faithful shills in here has dropped significantly over the last week or so. Do you think they have finally given up try to defend the indefensible?

Not while they still have the time to try and demonize Andy Hall's efforts it would seem.

[fish fingers]

I havent been following the case for a few weeks. Whats the latest? Sorry bit lazy to read through 15 pages..

[KunMatt]

I havent been following the case for a few weeks. Whats the latest? Sorry bit lazy to read through 15 pages..

Basically in court the prosecution has shown no evidence or real case against the B2 but they will still probably get convicted anyways.

[DM07]

That goes up there as being in the top 10 of the most bizarre statements made by Aleg. Completely lost touch with reality.

Well then, what has been unfair about the trial so far?

Latest news were that the defense has been allowed to retest the DNA evidence from the autopsy, which they refused. How unfair.

You must be very impressed with the way the Police have handled this case AleG. It really has been a textbook open and shut case. The Police have been thorough in every aspect, not overlooking any key investigation paths, being perfectly consistent with their press releases, and all their officers that stood up to give evidence at the trial were highly knowledgeable about the case and could answer every question pertaining to the details of the DNA evidence and other artifacts found at the scene. It just surprises me they haven't got a straight up guilty verdict already. It's easy to see why you have such unshakeable confidence in them.

Not that it would make any difference to explain...

No, I'm not very impressed with the police investigation but that doesn't mean that I'm going to jump in the "They are scapegoats" bandwagon, let alone buy into the myriad conspiracy theories being thrown around.

Just because the police doesn't live up to some ideal of professionalism it doesn't mean that the men on trial are innocent, by that argument every single inmate in Thai prisons should be set free.

Okay...wait...you are "not very impressed with the police investigation"?

May I ask, what would make you feel REALLY unimpressed?

I mean, they fumbled about every single thing from chain of custody of the DNA- samples over filing pictures because of no budget to having guys translate a "confession" who speak neither nor read Thai nor the dialect of the accused.

"Just because the police doesn't live up to some ideal of professionalism"...how about "show not the slightest sign of professionalism" ?

And by the way: we are talking about a hi- profile murder and rape- case that was "perfect" and "waterproof" - not about some case of minor shop- lifting!

You and your ilk have been praising the "good work' of the RTP over and over and when people pointed out to you, that all they have looks extremely weak, you called them conspicracy- theorists!

...and maybe...juts maybe...there are some in Thai- prisons, who should be set free, judging by the horrific performance of the RTP.

May very well not be the first time!

[Basil B]

I havent been following the case for a few weeks. Whats the latest? Sorry bit lazy to read through 15 pages..

Basically in court the prosecution has shown no evidence or real case against the B2 but they will still probably get convicted anyways.

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

We are not in the court room so we will never have all the facts that the judges have, so very hard to predict the out come, also we have no way of knowing if the Judges will be impartial or the trial has been fixed.

Probably no one will ever be convicted because the way the the investigation has been conducted and now most of the evidence discredited.

[BritTim]

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

We are not in the court room so we will never have all the facts that the judges have, so very hard to predict the out come, also we have no way of knowing if the Judges will be impartial or the trial has been fixed.

Probably no one will ever be convicted because the way the the investigation has been conducted and now most of the evidence discredited.

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

I also believe the Burmese kids are innocent (at least of murder). However, I am curious as to what is still be be revealed about David's possessions. There are credible indications that these were in the B2's possession, and that does need explanation.

[Jai Dee]

Some off-topic posts and subsequent replies have been removed from this thread.

[stephenterry]

That goes up there as being in the top 10 of the most bizarre statements made by Aleg. Completely lost touch with reality.

Well then, what has been unfair about the trial so far?

Latest news were that the defense has been allowed to retest the DNA evidence from the autopsy, which they refused. How unfair.

You must be very impressed with the way the Police have handled this case AleG. It really has been a textbook open and shut case. The Police have been thorough in every aspect, not overlooking any key investigation paths, being perfectly consistent with their press releases, and all their officers that stood up to give evidence at the trial were highly knowledgeable about the case and could answer every question pertaining to the details of the DNA evidence and other artifacts found at the scene. It just surprises me they haven't got a straight up guilty verdict already. It's easy to see why you have such unshakeable confidence in them.

Not that it would make any difference to explain...

No, I'm not very impressed with the police investigation but that doesn't mean that I'm going to jump in the "They are scapegoats" bandwagon, let alone buy into the myriad conspiracy theories being thrown around.

Just because the police doesn't live up to some ideal of professionalism it doesn't mean that the men on trial are innocent, by that argument every single inmate in Thai prisons should be set free.

Okay...wait...you are "not very impressed with the police investigation"?

May I ask, what would make you feel REALLY unimpressed?

I mean, they fumbled about every single thing from chain of custody of the DNA- samples over filing pictures because of no budget to having guys translate a "confession" who speak neither nor read Thai nor the dialect of the accused.

"Just because the police doesn't live up to some ideal of professionalism"...how about "show not the slightest sign of professionalism" ?

And by the way: we are talking about a hi- profile murder and rape- case that was "perfect" and "waterproof" - not about some case of minor shop- lifting!

You and your ilk have been praising the "good work' of the RTP over and over and when people pointed out to you, that all they have looks extremely weak, you called them conspicracy- theorists!

...and maybe...juts maybe...there are some in Thai- prisons, who should be set free, judging by the horrific performance of the RTP.

May very well not be the first time!

That's unfair. The chain of custody was good, but a few critical evidences were used up or went missing. And the photo copier broke down it happens. And why do you need guys who can understand Thai and Burmese when they're beating the living shut out of the suspects. Otherwise perfect like the pm said.

[boomerangutang]

Well then, what has been unfair about the trial so far? Latest news were that the defense has been allowed to retest the DNA evidence from the autopsy, which they refused. How unfair.

Here are some just a tiny portion of the issues which could be termed 'unfair'

>>> no note taking allowed. No audio recordings allowed. No video allowed.

>>> RT policeman claimed David was walking erratically, in the video, like a drunk man

>>> No video of AC entrance after David entered, 3 hours before the crime.

>>> RT policeman claimed 'Running Man' CCTV showed one of the B2 (which one? as neither looks remotely like Running Man) .....and claimed that man was running back and forth to the Burmese settlement. Ridiculous.

>>> Court said DNA could be re-tested in late April. Court said in early May they would decide the issue on July 8. By July 10 there was a lukewarm agreement, but very restricted as to what could be looked at. By late August, no tangible results of a re-testing was forthcoming. After so many false starts, the defense finally threw their hands up and indicated, "Enough already. Even if re-testing ever gets done, the entire process is done by Thai officials, and the results will be transferred to RTP reps, and then to us. We don't want RTP involved with any part of the re-testing because they've proven many times they can't be trusted. Therefore, we withdraw our request."

shall I go on?

[balo]

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

We are not in the court room so we will never have all the facts that the judges have, so very hard to predict the out come, also we have no way of knowing if the Judges will be impartial or the trial has been fixed.

Probably no one will ever be convicted because the way the the investigation has been conducted and now most of the evidence discredited.

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

I also believe the Burmese kids are innocent (at least of murder). However, I am curious as to what is still be be revealed about David's possessions. There are credible indications that these were in the B2's possession, and that does need explanation.

I totally agree with you, even if B2 are not the killers they know something for sure. Maybe we will find out after the trial , if they are being released .

[stephenterry]

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

We are not in the court room so we will never have all the facts that the judges have, so very hard to predict the out come, also we have no way of knowing if the Judges will be impartial or the trial has been fixed.

Probably no one will ever be convicted because the way the the investigation has been conducted and now most of the evidence discredited.

My views are the B2 are innocent, or more to the point any credible evidence has now been discredited...

I also believe the Burmese kids are innocent (at least of murder). However, I am curious as to what is still be be revealed about David's possessions. There are credible indications that these were in the B2's possession, and that does need explanation.

If the prosecution do not present this witness at the trial it will remain unanswered. If they do we will see how the defence counters it.

[loonodingle]

There u go just as I said....

They don't need anything else they have the profiles.

[animatic]

Someone involved, and close enough to the investigation, had David's phone, and it was obviously planted behind the B2 workers shack when the set up targets of 'who had been near the beach' were narrowed down.

No one would steal a iPhone from a murder scene and just throw it away behind their own house, when it's value would be 3 months pay if sold off island, and it's incrimination value would be death or life in a Thai prison. Even the biggest fool would not do this, they were set up.

[boomerangutang]

RTP apologists and Nomsod shielders have been telling us (those of us seeking truth and justice) for nearly a year ...."just wait until the trial starts. Then all will be made clear. The Police are professionals and they know a whole lot more about this crime then any of us do."

Some of them even projected their wrong-headed fantasy to include the families: "How can you second guess the victims' families?! They were briefed by British experts. They know a lot more about the case than we do....."

Well, Nomsod lovers, you're flat out 100% wrong. The trial has been proving what we said all along: The RTP doesn't have a clue, literally. Actually, I thought the RTP would pull a better ruse than they have shown thus far. Are they intentionally bumbling even more than they would ordinarily bumble? The mind reels.

It's a little bit to early for you to say the trial has been proving everything wrong and why are you bringing Nomsods name into this , he is not on trial .

I think we should wait until the trial has finished before we should come up with a conclusion .

You might be right about RTP and the coverup but it will always end up as speculations until we have evidence that will stand up in court.

Now since this is a Thai court and two Burmese guys are on trial , you will not accept any possible "facts" from the police anyway , and we all know the most likely outcome will end up with them being released . If that happens speculations and rumors will carry on for years to come . Maybe even on Thaivisa.

I admit, I'm inclined to bring Nomsod's name in to this. Often. I know he's not on trial, but that doesn't stop me from feeling indignation that justice is being pissed upon. The initial investigative team, led by Panya, all believed it was Nomsod shown in the Running Man videos and Panya himself, early in the investigation, claimed they had two prime suspects (Nomsod and Mon) and arrests were imminent. That, in my view, was the closest the investigators ever got to doing their jobs correctly. We all know what happened immediately after that, and the legacy of lies is what we're grappling with. Just as quickly, offers of big money payments were probably made. I'm just one of those nutcases, that if I see blatant injustice, I've got to speak out.

You know Bob Dylan's song, "You're Gonna Have to Serve Somebody" ? ....that doesn't apply to me. I serve no one. I have no God, no superior ranked officer watching over me, no allegiance to anything. I bow to no Buddha statues, golden, jade or whatever. I have zero debt, and zero money coming in from any country, service or pension. I am as free as a person can be. I can speak my mind without having to look over my shoulder, and without having to look to some authority for authorization or approval. I challenge you to show one person who is more free or less affiliated than I.