Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[Rykbanlor]

From day one comments from a certain poster have not gave any indication that he want's the truth out .

His remarks are very disrespectful to the families who have already been through enough .

It is difficult to report this person due to his tactics.

Every time a thread has been down he has been the common denominator.

Surely it is time to completely ignore him .

I hope that some actions can be taken to consider what value he is to the thread or is he just there throwing wood into the fire until thread is closed down again ?

Each member has a right to their say, whether you agree with it or not. Don't make this personal, , for one,I want to hear counter arguments, when one is made I would love to see you respond to it without personal attack, but with a counter argument or fact.of your own. I am sifting through all statements of facts and objective opinions to see if some truth can be weeded out. Nobody knows who committed this crime, unfortunately, so there is a possibility it could be the B2, or someone else, nobody actually knows at this precise moment,

That has been a problem for a long time in the KT threads. Thats why most members with another opinion has gone quite , we have a lot of observers here and only a handful of active posters.

I have no problems to give my opinion even if the majority of the active posters here do not agree with me. When someone comes up with an argument the response is most often a personal attack and other threads has been closed because of this.

We are all looking for facts , if it can be verified there will be no doubt about it and we can all agree and move on .

As long as we're not 100% sure iin a case like this posters on this forum should accept other members opinion , and if

you do not agree, give your opinion or ignore them without peronal attacks . And carry on.

Yes sometimes there is a struggle to keep emotional responses under check and I agree that is counter productive. There seems to be a general breakdown in what we all percieve to be factual though.

Personally I feel, and I think a lot of posters can attest to this, anything that has been stated by a member of the investigating Police, without being backed up by physical evidence is not considered a fact. This is one such avenue that leads us into circular arguments.

[silverado]

just the wounds caused by a man wearing a certain ring while he was raping a girl on koh tao long time ago.....

remind you something ?

[Rykbanlor]

Hi all,

Can I add to the conversation as I have had my clip taken down that in the video it clearly states that Mon says that Sean McAnna went into the Lotus Bar with blood on his face and body around the time David and Hannah died. This is the same man with similar wounds to David. The same man who fled the island. The same man that was so terrified of what was happening he contacted the embassy and sky news to save his hide. You can judge what you will from this but his character is flawed. He has been convicted for a heinous crime that involves underage children, so he has shown he is a filthy piece of trash already.

Why did they let him leave the island??

Any ideas anyone. That is open to All inc the doubters

Ps. if anyone can help with the subtitles addition I would appreciate it so I can get it up and it will stay up. (you know what I mean..ha ha )

Regardless, of what anyone thinks Sean's role in this was, it is inconcievable that he should have been allowed to walk away so easily.

Given we have one report that quotes him saying he was playing guitar in a group on the beach and another which quotes him saying he was at home all night, plus his accusations against and photos of Mon and cop bud pursuing him into the 7/11, anyone in their right minds would be able to see that he should have been detained until more of his stories had been corroborated or disproved.

His dubious character however is something of a boon to anyone who wishes to discredit any of these suspicions by simply allowing them to say - ah yes, the paranoid delusional drug fiend and his tall stories!

A lot of pictures and other info already point to Sean's being well integrated amongst these islanders, so it's unlikely he was making up or dreaming up any of these claims knowing what harm could come to him if he did.

[Madaussie]

just the wounds caused by a man wearing a certain ring while he was raping a girl on koh tao long time ago.....

remind you something ?

Looks like road rash from falling off a motorcycle to me.

I think you should put the source of the picture to maintain some sanity to this thread. In all honesty..

[Nigeone]

This Trial has really screwed up Thailand's image .. and will continue to do so, whatever the outcome.

I don't entirely agree with you. Anyone who has lived in Thailand for any length of time know what goes on and how justice is seen to be done but not necessarily with the right guilty parties.

Having lived in Thailand for a good few years, that wasnt really the point I was making.

Sorry Fish finger if I misunderstood , we are on the same page though I'm sure.

[mcm991]

My memory is not as good as some here.

Please remind me ......

When Sean was hiding in 7-11 with Mon trying to console him with his colleague ......

Sean posted on FB ... 'Owner of AC Bar did it.'

He then carried on with other posts of how his life was in danger etc.

What did he mean when he said 'The owner of the AC Bar did it'?

It is quite a specific comment given the timing of events and his current predicament when he posted.

[metisdead]

Be advised content from CSI LA is not deemed as a credible news source. Posts containing content from CSI LA will simply continue to disappear.

[Madaussie]

My memory is not as good as some here.

Please remind me ......

When Sean was hiding in 7-11 with Mon trying to console him with his colleague ......

Sean posted on FB ... 'Owner of AC Bar did it.'

He then carried on with other posts of how his life was in danger etc.

What did he mean when he said 'The owner of the AC Bar did it'?

It is quite a specific comment given the timing of events and his current predicament when he posted.

Mon was the manager of the Bar. (ac) Mon went after him because it was alleged he was seen in Lotus bar around the time of the deaths cleaning blood from his face and body.

Sean then said he went after Mon and confronted him about the deaths.. Personally I would tend to think they went after sean and not the otherway around. Watch Seans video and listen to his words. 2 or 3 times. He is telling you something there. He thinks a lot about what he says and you can almost hear his brain grinding over. He knows Mon. Mon knows him from his previous trip. Mon states that Sean isn't the same as when he was there about 2 years previous. In fact he says Sean is a bit Psycho (to coin phrase) and not the same. Well he had been through a court trial for child sex offences and been convicted.

Personally I think Sean has a character flaw. He has sung and spoken about killing. as per evidence below.

https://youtu.be/T-crgOK3QOw

[Rykbanlor]

My memory is not as good as some here.

Please remind me ......

When Sean was hiding in 7-11 with Mon trying to console him with his colleague ......

Sean posted on FB ... 'Owner of AC Bar did it.'

He then carried on with other posts of how his life was in danger etc.

What did he mean when he said 'The owner of the AC Bar did it'?

It is quite a specific comment given the timing of events and his current predicament when he posted.

Seemed like a very pointed comment, which he later backtracked from and said that he reckoned the owner of AC bar KNEW who did it. It has also been interpreted that if Sean was killed, the owner of AC bar did it.

Detractors have said that Mon is not the actual owner of AC bar, so it's therefore all nonsense.

Make your own conclusions from that. Either way, it's all a little fishy and cannot be waved away with statements like: They just wanted to stop him shitslinging, he was paranoid.

[catsanddogs]

Hi all,

Can I add to the conversation as I have had my clip taken down that in the video it clearly states that Mon says that Sean McAnna went into the Lotus Bar with blood on his face and body around the time David and Hannah died. This is the same man with similar wounds to David. The same man who fled the island. The same man that was so terrified of what was happening he contacted the embassy and sky news to save his hide. You can judge what you will from this but his character is flawed. He has been convicted for a heinous crime that involves underage children, so he has shown he is a filthy piece of trash already.

Why did they let him leave the island??

Any ideas anyone. That is open to All inc the doubters

Ps. if anyone can help with the subtitles addition I would appreciate it so I can get it up and it will stay up. (you know what I mean..ha ha )

Then Mon should be called by the defence to state this under oath.

[stephenterry]

My memory is not as good as some here.

Please remind me ......

When Sean was hiding in 7-11 with Mon trying to console him with his colleague ......

Sean posted on FB ... 'Owner of AC Bar did it.'

He then carried on with other posts of how his life was in danger etc.

What did he mean when he said 'The owner of the AC Bar did it'?

It is quite a specific comment given the timing of events and his current predicament when he posted.

he meant if he was killed Mon did it

[catsanddogs]

My memory is not as good as some here.

Please remind me ......

When Sean was hiding in 7-11 with Mon trying to console him with his colleague ......

Sean posted on FB ... 'Owner of AC Bar did it.'

He then carried on with other posts of how his life was in danger etc.

What did he mean when he said 'The owner of the AC Bar did it'?

It is quite a specific comment given the timing of events and his current predicament when he posted.

Maybe Mon was one of the ten plain clothed men that were present when the B2 were tortured but in fearing for their lives they will not speak of it. Mon was instrumental in directing police on the crime scene if the press photos are anything to go by.

[silverado]

just the wounds caused by a man wearing a certain ring while he was raping a girl on koh tao long time ago.....

remind you something ?

Looks like road rash from falling off a motorcycle to me.

I think you should put the source of the picture to maintain some sanity to this thread. In all honesty..

the link (CSI LA) and the face book page of the girl are not allowed by the mods, BUT the girl didn't mention motorbike fall ... well a rape

"she escaped from the guy who tried to rape her buy jumping from a balcony. The photo is showing wounds she got after the jumping"

[joebrown]

The sooner they convict the two Burmese the better, the trial is dragging on now.

Obviously you're not interested in truth and justice then. BTW, the trial is 'dragging on' as you say because the dates for hearing the prosecution and defence submissions were pre-arranged by the presiding judge(s). Many posters also think the trial should have ended sooner, but with a different outcome to the one you are supporting.

[glenmohr]

Good video, summing up the investigation cockups:

Did the wounds on Miller's head every come up in testimony? They appear to be delivered more so by a shark tooth ring that has been shown on other sites rather than a hoe.

Correct! Wounds were shallow and inflicted by a ray tooth ring or a push dagger. Inflicted by a left hander of equal size to David, not by a dwarf. Think the Burma guys are both right handers. Might point to whom they call "Stingray Man", bouncer at the bar where David and Hannah were part of a "conflict" that included Thais, most likely because one of the Thais started to fondle and/or insult Hannah. This has neven been investigated. Ray Shark man later posed with a hoe for a photo that basically insulted the victims once more. Some posts in other forums said that he was accused of trying to rape a blonde western girl some months before. She was able to jump off the balcony and flee from the apartment where the attack took place. Here he is - a cold blooded and sadistic person as he is described by KT locals in forums and on the street. Even though all this might be referred to as hearsay, I think that it tells a lot about a person's mindset if he proudly poses with a tool similar to the gruesome murder weapon for anyone to see...

this guy is not a bouncer, he's a motor bike mechanic, as for posing for photos, ..although the murders and how they were carried out were horrific you have to realise that not everyone has the same feelings as you lot here do, david & hannah were just tourists/farrangs as far as some (not all) were concerned…. would you all be here with so much passion if it were some thais or burmese that it happened to..i doubt it!…i dont expect many are that interested in the victims of the bombing in bkk..and before anyone jumps in i am merly pointing this out, not condoning it.

GB..you are probably right, most people with a difference of opinion have stopped posting on the thread as nothing changes and within 10 pages of being re-opened its back to personal attacks and removed posts.

Wrong Frank, While the tragedy was originally that of a never to be forgiven crime on David and Hannah, there are those of us who also want to see justice for the Burmese along with justice for the Brits.

[Madaussie]

just the wounds caused by a man wearing a certain ring while he was raping a girl on koh tao long time ago.....

remind you something ?

Looks like road rash from falling off a motorcycle to me.

I think you should put the source of the picture to maintain some sanity to this thread. In all honesty..

the link (CSI LA) and the face book page of the girl are not allowed by the mods, BUT the girl didn't mention motorbike fall ... well a rape

"she escaped from the guy who tried to rape her buy jumping from a balcony. The photo is showing wounds she got after the jumping"

Yes replied to you. I can see how she got the injuries from falling/sliding down the concrete to make her escape. Thx. Yes what a nasty piece of work. This is the thing we don't know who did what. we only know there has been a single person we could attribute anything to and that's Sean McAnna. He had injurys. He named the killer. He spoke in past tense not the present or future.

[T_Dog]

Was doing a search trying to keep the names straight on this case and ran into an interesting summary. Not sure blogs are allowed on the forum here so google "getting away with murder - pidgeon project". It is from last November and differentiates rumor and fact.

[Madaussie]

how do you get the videos links to open up like some people do. mine stay as a line of text help needed thx

[StealthEnergiser]

how do you get the videos links to open up like some people do. mine stay as a line of text help needed thx

as long as you get the link from the youtube site just paste it the same as text

[Darkknight666]

I've been looking for the rape story involving ring man, could someone PM it to me?

Thanks.

[mcm991]

just the wounds caused by a man wearing a certain ring while he was raping a girl on koh tao long time ago.....

remind you something ?

Looks like road rash from falling off a motorcycle to me.

I think you should put the source of the picture to maintain some sanity to this thread. In all honesty..

the link (CSI LA) and the face book page of the girl are not allowed by the mods, BUT the girl didn't mention motorbike fall ... well a rape

"she escaped from the guy who tried to rape her buy jumping from a balcony. The photo is showing wounds she got after the jumping"

Yes replied to you. I can see how she got the injuries from falling/sliding down the concrete to make her escape. Thx. Yes what a nasty piece of work. This is the thing we don't know who did what. we only know there has been a single person we could attribute anything to and that's Sean McAnna. He had injurys. He named the killer. He spoke in past tense not the present or future.

Exactly. He posted in the past tense.

I've always thought no matter how looney Sean is/was ..... sending him away after having a quiet chat was one of the first signs that things were not going to go well for truth and justice.

I'm convinced he has some or all of the missing pieces.

Sadly, he is far too cowardly to stand up and be counted - or his hands are very dirty......... either way, too bad.

[Madaussie]

the link (CSI LA) and the face book page of the girl are not allowed by the mods, BUT the girl didn't mention motorbike fall ... well a rape

"she escaped from the guy who tried to rape her buy jumping from a balcony. The photo is showing wounds she got after the jumping"

Yes replied to you. I can see how she got the injuries from falling/sliding down the concrete to make her escape. Thx. Yes what a nasty piece of work. This is the thing we don't know who did what. we only know there has been a single person we could attribute anything to and that's Sean McAnna. He had injurys. He named the killer. He spoke in past tense not the present or future.

Exactly. He posted in the past tense.

I've always thought no matter how looney Sean is/was ..... sending him away after having a quiet chat was one of the first signs that things were not going to go well for truth and justice.

I'm convinced he has some or all of the missing pieces.

Sadly, he is far too cowardly to stand up and be counted - or his hands are very dirty......... either way, too bad.

Well he will be spoken too at length I think. I have evidence to suggest they have tracked him down in Milan. "They" as in some interested people.. Now its just timing

[smedly]

From day one comments from a certain poster have not gave any indication that he want's the truth out .

His remarks are very disrespectful to the families who have already been through enough .

It is difficult to report this person due to his tactics.

Every time a thread has been down he has been the common denominator.

Surely it is time to completely ignore him .

I hope that some actions can be taken to consider what value he is to the thread or is he just there throwing wood into the fire until thread is closed down again ?

Each member has a right to their say, whether you agree with it or not. Don't make this personal, , for one,I want to hear counter arguments, when one is made I would love to see you respond to it without personal attack, but with a counter argument or fact.of your own. I am sifting through all statements of facts and objective opinions to see if some truth can be weeded out. Nobody knows who committed this crime, unfortunately, so there is a possibility it could be the B2, or someone else, nobody actually knows at this precise moment,

Let me respond to your post starting at "for one, I want to hear....": You say that it's this person who's not responding to arguments, but merely getting personal. But from what I've be unable to avoid reading of the disputes these same people are having with each other, it seems that the perception is that it's not the OP and other B2 defenders not responding to counter-arguments, (I've read numerous such myself), but this person he complains about who doesn't respond directly to arguments or counter-arguments.

I think there's some pot-and-kettle to all of this, and I fully agree one should attack the argument not the person, though there's a fine line and we've all crossed it, but on the whole it seems the reason the majority of people following this case are speaking out in defense of the B2 is because of the entirety of evidence and context around the crime, the investigation, and the environments micro and macro that it happened in.

And it does seem from my reading through parts of these backs-and-forths that certain members here who either hold the opposite view or oppose this one have done a poor job of presenting their case and have often just debated dead-end details or resorted to repetition of the same talking points or buzz words ("conspiracy theory"), which again is what this comment you respond to is referring to. Like you, I would like to see a case against the B2 presented that doesn't make me roll my eyes at points and groan at others, but so far that hasn't happened. Despite the copious verbiage. I too would very much like to, but no longer have your expectations of it happening.

this forum topic is comprised of posters that offer facts opinions expert input and conjecture, the problem arises when certain posters can't tell the difference or are claiming facts when in fact they are opinions or they are constantly ignoring expert input and continue to post what basically amounts to repeated stupid misdirected drivel

[Gweiloman]

From day one comments from a certain poster have not gave any indication that he want's the truth out .

His remarks are very disrespectful to the families who have already been through enough .

It is difficult to report this person due to his tactics.

Every time a thread has been down he has been the common denominator.

Surely it is time to completely ignore him .

I hope that some actions can be taken to consider what value he is to the thread or is he just there throwing wood into the fire until thread is closed down again ?

Each member has a right to their say, whether you agree with it or not. Don't make this personal, , for one,I want to hear counter arguments, when one is made I would love to see you respond to it without personal attack, but with a counter argument or fact.of your own. I am sifting through all statements of facts and objective opinions to see if some truth can be weeded out. Nobody knows who committed this crime, unfortunately, so there is a possibility it could be the B2, or someone else, nobody actually knows at this precise moment,

Let me respond to your post starting at "for one, I want to hear....": You say that it's this person who's not responding to arguments, but merely getting personal. But from what I've be unable to avoid reading of the disputes these same people are having with each other, it seems that the perception is that it's not the OP and other B2 defenders not responding to counter-arguments, (I've read numerous such myself), but this person he complains about who doesn't respond directly to arguments or counter-arguments.

I think there's some pot-and-kettle to all of this, and I fully agree one should attack the argument not the person, though there's a fine line and we've all crossed it, but on the whole it seems the reason the majority of people following this case are speaking out in defense of the B2 is because of the entirety of evidence and context around the crime, the investigation, and the environments micro and macro that it happened in.

And it does seem from my reading through parts of these backs-and-forths that certain members here who either hold the opposite view or oppose this one have done a poor job of presenting their case and have often just debated dead-end details or resorted to repetition of the same talking points or buzz words ("conspiracy theory"), which again is what this comment you respond to is referring to. Like you, I would like to see a case against the B2 presented that doesn't make me roll my eyes at points and groan at others, but so far that hasn't happened. Despite the copious verbiage. I too would very much like to, but no longer have your expectations of it happening.

this forum topic is comprised of posters that offer facts opinions expert input and conjecture, the problem arises when certain posters can't tell the difference or are claiming facts when in fact they are opinions or they are constantly ignoring expert input and continue to post what basically amounts to repeated stupid misdirected drivel

I would like to add- intentional misdirection and blatant attempts to bait in order to get some suspended

[smedly]

and that too

[fxe1200]

The sooner they convict the two Burmese the better, the trial is dragging on now.

Obviously you're not interested in truth and justice then. BTW, the trial is 'dragging on' as you say because the dates for hearing the prosecution and defence submissions were pre-arranged by the presiding judge(s). Many posters also think the trial should have ended sooner, but with a different outcome to the one you are supporting.

Just imagine Mr. Manxninja, if it would be you being shackled and thrown into a prison for more than one year. Would you rather be convicted fast, or finally be freed, even if it takes a little longer?

[BritTim]

Nobody knows who committed this crime, unfortunately, so there is a possibility it could be the B2, or someone else, nobody actually knows at this precise moment,

Wrong, there are probably at least 20 people who know for sure who committed the crime. There are are culprits, and quite possibly some people they're closest with. It would be very odd if none of the real culprits told (or hinted to) anyone else. And there are myriad indirect ways of telling people. Some examples: "hey, you gotta help me launder (or burn or bury) these clothes, they're covered in blood. Don't ask me how it happened. Ok?" or "mom, don't tell anyone what I just told you." or (to the boat driver) "Don't breathe a word of what happened, about this boat trip or anything to anyone, or you're dead. You got that?"

I think you are correct that many people probably know for sure who committed the crime. Most have no motivation to reveal what they know. Those who would like the real villains caught, and know for sure who they are, probably cannot prove it. Say I had seen a local hard man come in agitated and covered in blood, seen him clean up and even carried out a conversation with him about what happened. What would I do about it? Have I any proof? I know what would happen if I approached the local police (a key part of the island mafia). In a Thai context, any attempt to report it off island would be useless. The press would not touch it unless I could provide concrete proof, though a brief report mentioning the allegations would be filed when my body washed up on the beach a few days later.

I am sure more than one person is wrestling with his/her conscience over this. Few would be willing to risk their lives in a fruitless attempt to see justice done.

[stephenterry]

And that's the problem. No individual could do anything except trust the police to do their job. And on koh tao forget it.

[StealthEnergiser]

3 September 2015

Koh Tao murders: Zaw Linn details police torture

Testifying in a Koh Samui court on Wednesday, Zaw Linn, one of two Burmese migrants accused of murder and rape, said that he was innocent of the charges, and that he had only signed a confession after being tortured by police.

In a lengthy dialogue, the 22-year-old from Kyauktaw, Arakan State, said he was handcuffed, had a bag placed over his head, and was beaten, before police threatened to extract his teeth with pliers if he did not admit the crimes.

Speaking to DVB on Thursday, Moe Wai of the Foundation for Education and Development, who attended the trial on 2 September, said Zaw Linn had first told the court how he had come to work on the southern Thai island of Koh Tao two years ago.

cont

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-zaw-linn-details-police-torture-burma-thailand-myanmar/56989

[smedly]

Nobody knows who committed this crime, unfortunately, so there is a possibility it could be the B2, or someone else, nobody actually knows at this precise moment,

Wrong, there are probably at least 20 people who know for sure who committed the crime. There are are culprits, and quite possibly some people they're closest with. It would be very odd if none of the real culprits told (or hinted to) anyone else. And there are myriad indirect ways of telling people. Some examples: "hey, you gotta help me launder (or burn or bury) these clothes, they're covered in blood. Don't ask me how it happened. Ok?" or "mom, don't tell anyone what I just told you." or (to the boat driver) "Don't breathe a word of what happened, about this boat trip or anything to anyone, or you're dead. You got that?"

I think you are correct that many people probably know for sure who committed the crime. Most have no motivation to reveal what they know. Those who would like the real villains caught, and know for sure who they are, probably cannot prove it. Say I had seen a local hard man come in agitated and covered in blood, seen him clean up and even carried out a conversation with him about what happened. What would I do about it? Have I any proof? I know what would happen if I approached the local police (a key part of the island mafia). In a Thai context, any attempt to report it off island would be useless. The press would not touch it unless I could provide concrete proof, though a brief report mentioning the allegations would be filed when my body washed up on the beach a few days later.

I am sure more than one person is wrestling with his/her conscience over this. Few would be willing to risk their lives in a fruitless attempt to see justice done.

for all we know some people may have already come forward and reported what they know to the authorities, do you actually think we would get to hear about it, there are several people that have already left the island now untraceable who may have either been threatened - paid off - or permanently silenced.........take your pick