Bangkok bombing: Governor defends rushed reopening of Erawan Shrine

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed as well as the quoted replies. Another post containing overly derogatory comments toward Thais has been removed as well as the replies.

[Orac]

When cleaning they managed to miss bomb and body parts? Sounds like my wife could be involved here.

[rtco]

Establish the boundaries of the crime scene. Determine an inner perimeter, the spot where the crime occurred, and an outer perimeter, for example, the exit or entrance doors or windows. There may also be an extended perimeter, an area where, for example, a perpetrator may have tossed a murder weapon when fleeing the scene.

Mark perimeters with crime scene tape or police barriers.

Remove unnecessary individuals from the scene. Gather witnesses, if any.

Determine if there is any evidence present. If so, log it carefully.

Record conditions of the area and anything that affects it. Write down time, weather conditions, description of area and number of people, if any, present upon your arrival.

Release the crime scene after you complete all documentation, secure all evidence and remove all photographs and sketches taken. Release should happen only when everyone agrees that the scene has been adequately searched.

[razer]

It is good to get back to normal ... BUT ... more important is to gather all the forensic evidence first.

After watching this BBC video clip I have little confidence the bad guys will be caught even though somebody will be blamed and possibly arrested. When I think of the RTP competence to investigate an act to terrorism much less a crime, I can only shake my head.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34006372?SThisFB

[phoenixdoglover]

Establish the boundaries of the crime scene. Determine an inner perimeter, the spot where the crime occurred, and an outer perimeter, for example, the exit or entrance doors or windows. There may also be an extended perimeter, an area where, for example, a perpetrator may have tossed a murder weapon when fleeing the scene.

Mark perimeters with crime scene tape or police barriers.

Remove unnecessary individuals from the scene. Gather witnesses, if any.

Determine if there is any evidence present. If so, log it carefully.

Record conditions of the area and anything that affects it. Write down time, weather conditions, description of area and number of people, if any, present upon your arrival.

Release the crime scene after you complete all documentation, secure all evidence and remove all photographs and sketches taken. Release should happen only when everyone agrees that the scene has been adequately searched.

Exactly. Handling of the crime scene was botched. The police in Thailand need better training, and accountability for poor performance. Sigh.

[kblaze]

Best thing for the country is to carry on as normal. To show this threat is not likely to be repeated in a hurry.

Arrest the bombers and hang them high. Enhanced interrogation techniques should be used to ensure the find out exactly who is behind this and then persecute them too

"Enhanced interrogation techniques should be used"

What exactly are you referring to? Water boarding? Mild torture?

If so, then no, they absolutely shouldn't. Its proven to be the quickest way to a false answer.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/senate-committee-cia-torture-does-not-work

[Equalizer]

He has now come to realize his actions where one of complete incompetence. I am sure that people around the world who are trained in bomb forensics will have been cringing in their pants. A news reporter found some shrapnel in-bedded in a nearby wall after they cleaned up. Potentially crucial evidence. Who knows what was put inside that pipe. screws, ball bearings, the pipe itself could all give pointers. Even the bag it was inside could have given crucial info. No doubt they have no idea what make the bag was or tried to collect fragments of it. For all we know that bag may be unique to just a few outlets. Like i who knows. Now it is all down the drain. Pillock.

[Berto]

He's right that he would have been criticized for leaving blood and body parts in the streets ... but it seems to me a better priority balance could have been managed of collecting all possible evidence first and I also still don't get the wild rush to reopen so soon.

Tourism, money comes to mind. The sooner they get this behind them the sooner tourists will flock? back. People have short memories and maybe a morbid curiosity.

Of course one thing that is very welcome in this country is falan's money. Trying to fix internal problems? What? When? Why??? Smile! Just smile!

Here is the veiw from BBC:

Despite the availability of multiple CCTV cameras around the shrine, the police are making slow progress in identifying the names and nationalities of the suspects seen on video at the shrine just before the blast.

It is not clear how systematically they have interviewed all those who may have come into contact with these suspects, or how thoroughly they are using data like immigration records. They still do no know whether the suspects are in the country or not.

The police chief has said he believes they are looking for a group of 10 people or more, but has not said what the evidence is for this number.

In previous criminal investigations that have attracted international attention, notably the murder of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao last September, the Thai police have seemed incompetent and disorganised. This time, given the seriousness of the attack, they may do better.

It is still too early to say.

[Oziex1]

Quickly get those turnstiles spinning get those tourist bahts flowing, faster, faster, more, more, more!

[Berto]

He has now come to realize his actions where one of complete incompetence. I am sure that people around the world who are trained in bomb forensics will have been cringing in their pants. A news reporter found some shrapnel in-bedded in a nearby wall after they cleaned up. Potentially crucial evidence. Who knows what was put inside that pipe. screws, ball bearings, the pipe itself could all give pointers. Even the bag it was inside could have given crucial info. No doubt they have no idea what make the bag was or tried to collect fragments of it. For all we know that bag may be unique to just a few outlets. Like i who knows. Now it is all down the drain. Pillock.

They'll never learn.

[Bpuumike]

Cleaning: Yes.

Opening: Nope

Actually this would be a good moment to close this shrine forever and move it to another place where it can be much bigger. It is a strange place anyway for a very holy place, in between hotels at the most busy junction of a metropole.

Now it all looks like the business has to continue, no matter what happened.

And what's the difference anyway between opening or keeping it closed? People can also see it through the fence and maybe even light a candle there.

A huge huge pile of flowers, candles, last notes, pictures of familymembers would also look like this place is very important and nobody can stop us.

[Alwyn]

he had to do it quickly to remove any evidence that might point the wrong way..

[dotpoom]

He's right that he would have been criticized for leaving blood and body parts in the streets ... but it seems to me a better priority balance could have been managed of collecting all possible evidence first and I also still don't get the wild rush to reopen so soon.

The area could have been sealed off and kept out of the sight of the public...methinks.

[tbthailand]

He's right that he would have been criticized for leaving blood and body parts in the streets ... but it seems to me a better priority balance could have been managed of collecting all possible evidence first and I also still don't get the wild rush to reopen so soon.

Body parts removal can be done by experts, without wiping out the entire place for evidence, don't forget, all these body parts are also "evidence", as soon as the human remains had been removed, the crime scene should have been slosed off and a finger tip, fine tooth comb search of the area conducted, 3KG's of explosive would give you a pretty good indication of a detonation zone, at least 100M's all around SHOULD have been cordoned off.. it wasn't.

Shades of Koh Tao here, in that they were/are far too concerned about the impact of tourism, over gathering up all the evidence piece by piece.

Don't forget, this Somyot bozo stated it was a "special bomb" that left no trace, and that's why the place was cleaned faster than a short time hotel room!! What complete and utter crap, there is no such thing as a bomb that leaves zero evidence!!!!

it's one of those lose-lose situations now.

Either they can now be accused of being incompetent, or they can be accused of hiding something.

(ps; just my gut feeling, but I would put my money on incompetence... )

Edited August 21, 2015 by tbthailand

[ravip]

As anyone who has worked or lived or even set foot in thailand for a short period of time will testify….thais have their own logic and you will give yourself an ulcer trying to figure their thinking out….best to just smile and walk on.

Does not that 'logic' apply to all countries, including yours?

It is the 'clash of these logics' that gives birth to a lot of frustrated whiners globally.

Just my 2 satangs

[a99az]

Just goes to show how little they know. Also shows The classic Thai thinking process and how people rise to a position with little or no knowledge of the job in hand. No one would step forward and say "er sorry boss but what about all the forensic evidence that needs to be collected?" No just a yes man who tasks another yes man and the evidence is gone. What lessons will be learnt? None. No he can defend his actions therefore it OK.

[a99az]

He's right that he would have been criticized for leaving blood and body parts in the streets ... but it seems to me a better priority balance could have been managed of collecting all possible evidence first and I also still don't get the wild rush to reopen so soon.

Body parts removal can be done by experts, without wiping out the entire place for evidence, don't forget, all these body parts are also "evidence", as soon as the human remains had been removed, the crime scene should have been slosed off and a finger tip, fine tooth comb search of the area conducted, 3KG's of explosive would give you a pretty good indication of a detonation zone, at least 100M's all around SHOULD have been cordoned off.. it wasn't.

Shades of Koh Tao here, in that they were/are far too concerned about the impact of tourism, over gathering up all the evidence piece by piece.

Don't forget, this Somyot bozo stated it was a "special bomb" that left no trace, and that's why the place was cleaned faster than a short time hotel room!! What complete and utter crap, there is no such thing as a bomb that leaves zero evidence!!!!

it's one of those lose-lose situations now.

Either they can now be accused of being incompetent, or they can be accused of hiding something.

(ps; just my gut feeling, but I would put my money on incompetence... )

What do you me ether!! Incompetent coverup works well.

[cookee68]

He's right that he would have been criticized for leaving blood and body parts in the streets ... but it seems to me a better priority balance could have been managed of collecting all possible evidence first and I also still don't get the wild rush to reopen so soon.

Tourism = people = money

[MZurf]

Establish the boundaries of the crime scene. Determine an inner perimeter, the spot where the crime occurred, and an outer perimeter, for example, the exit or entrance doors or windows. There may also be an extended perimeter, an area where, for example, a perpetrator may have tossed a murder weapon when fleeing the scene.

Mark perimeters with crime scene tape or police barriers.

Remove unnecessary individuals from the scene. Gather witnesses, if any.

Determine if there is any evidence present. If so, log it carefully.

Record conditions of the area and anything that affects it. Write down time, weather conditions, description of area and number of people, if any, present upon your arrival.

Release the crime scene after you complete all documentation, secure all evidence and remove all photographs and sketches taken. Release should happen only when everyone agrees that the scene has been adequately searched.

Exactly. Handling of the crime scene was botched. The police in Thailand need better training, and accountability for poor performance. Sigh.

Don't worry, Uncle Too has the solution!!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/bangkok-bombing-prime-minister-tells-investigators-to-watch-blue-bloods-20150821-gj4ke0.html

[MobileContent]

Cleaning: Yes.

Opening: Nope

Actually this would be a good moment to close this shrine forever and move it to another place where it can be much bigger. It is a strange place anyway for a very holy place, in between hotels at the most busy junction of a metropole.

Now it all looks like the business has to continue, no matter what happened.

And what's the difference anyway between opening or keeping it closed? People can also see it through the fence and maybe even light a candle there.

A huge huge pile of flowers, candles, last notes, pictures of familymembers would also look like this place is very important and nobody can stop us.

The reason they want that location is due to the fact that the BMA has a finger (gets a cut) for selling flowers. This place should be put next to the floating market which works well with those other scams.

Any way I have nothing against the Erawan shrine and I am amzed that some tourists pay 100 Baht for a garland that cost just 20 Baht.

[casualbiker]

Yes,

He did the right thing repairing it, maybe remaining closed for a short while as a sign of respect might have been good, but nonetheless as long as the police had gathered all the evidence then it was the right thing to do

The point is that the BIB hadn't collected all the evidence. If they had then reporters would not have found parts from the bomb and body parts would not have fallen down from trees.

So the police didn't do their job properly, how's that the governors fault?

[thaigold]

In New York, Sydney, or London the site would have been secured and whole area tented for examination by forensic technicians and the police authorities. This would be especially true in the case of a mass murder, like the Rachaprasong bombing. Now, because of this ridiculous rush to normalcy, the evidenciary chain of evidence is broken and useless.
Bangkok residents will remember the Thai who was beaten to death at the shrine for defacing the image. The site was closed while the restoration work was in process. So sad.

[MZurf]

Yes,

He did the right thing repairing it, maybe remaining closed for a short while as a sign of respect might have been good, but nonetheless as long as the police had gathered all the evidence then it was the right thing to do

The point is that the BIB hadn't collected all the evidence. If they had then reporters would not have found parts from the bomb and body parts would not have fallen down from trees.

So the police didn't do their job properly, how's that the governors fault?

Never said it was.

[casualbiker]

It is good to get back to normal ... BUT ... more important is to gather all the forensic evidence first.

After watching this BBC video clip I have little confidence the bad guys will be caught even though somebody will be blamed and possibly arrested. When I think of the RTP competence to investigate an act to terrorism much less a crime, I can only shake my head.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34006372?SThisFB

What I found most amazing about that clip was the fact that Jonathan Head had actually left his Condominium, oh and his seemingly total lack of Thai.

[hawksway]

This was a crime scene and as such forensics are the absolute priority. They could have called in forensic scientists from Singapore by diplomatic negotiation within hours and closed the road for 3 days. The City has closed whole areas in the past for long periods. Why was the area not placed under control of a Senior Police or Army Commander?

They had the opportunity to make progress in finding the Bomber and now, thanks to the Governor, they have swept away the evidence.

These People who have defended the Governor's approach have spent too much time in the Sun.

[cumgranosalum]

He's right that he would have been criticized for leaving blood and body parts in the streets ... but it seems to me a better priority balance could have been managed of collecting all possible evidence first and I also still don't get the wild rush to reopen so soon.

Unlikely...if the place had been teated as a crime scene, it would have been cordoned off and screens erected whilst the place was given a through going over......

but this is par for the course - vis-a-vis Khao Tao, the police don't seem to have the fundamentals of how to set up and inspect a crime scene......

I'm reliably informed it was some "higher" authority overruled the police of this in the interests of normality and tourism. .....go figure.

reminds one of LBJ who I believe was frequently accused of putting his foot in his mouth.....

[Broeno]

In my humble opinion he did the right thing. You've got to show to 'dark forces' that they cannot kill the spirit of the country and her people. The sooner the life gets back to normalcy the better. That will send a message to terrorists. You can't win. Life goes on.

And what is the message to the Victims and relatives?

[spidermike007]

I am sorry if I sound skeptical, but would an extra day or two, for the Thai forensic "experts" would have made a difference? How many people have great confidence in this team? Where were they trained? Do they have a $100 million dollar lab to work with, equipped with state of the art equipment? Were they trained by Scotland Yard or the FBI? Are they competent enough of this task?

[Jingthing]

They should have called in international experts early as well. That's a given.

[elgordo38]

Human remains fell from a tree?

Ouch!

So much for a through cleanup.