Worst charter ever, Pheu Thai claims

[MZurf]

hahahaha, seems that some of the politicians/reds dont like the idea of being held accountable

Hahahaha, yes because corruption is only found among the redshirts!

Hahahaha, do you know how to read?

"Politicians/reds"

Actually, I read very well in four languages. Strange that you should leave out the color yellow in your post

[seajae]

hahahaha, seems that some of the politicians/reds dont like the idea of being held accountable , the threat of life bans for any criminal charges action/corruption would greatly reduce their ability to pocket all that extra cash they have been doing over the years and it is scaring the crap out of them. This is all about how they increase their bank accounts when they are elected to govern and as money is what they care about more than anything else it has them very worried, the other side is it will effectively cut out several of them from ever being elected/standing again(especially the ptp/reds big boss in the desert) as many are already within the terms stated, they dont care about the people, just themselves.

Hahahaha, yes because corruption is only found among the redshirts!

try reading what I wrote instead of just looking at one part, I said politicians and red shirts, now try reading the report again to see who actually rebuked the idea, politicians(both sides) and a red shirt. Seems you are simply too red leaning to actually see that I have simply answered to what exactly was written in the news piece, being totally biased does that. By the way democrats are politicians too in case you are not aware of it, pretty pathetic comeback really but its whats expected of a red apologist

[thaiguzzi]

There was a Poll of the people over the weekend and 78% of Thai's wanted the present government to remain for another two (2) years! The Red Shirts

do not like the Charter and Constitution, so maybe the government is doing something right! I personally like the Corruption Courts being setup, so lets

give the people the government they want and wait until the government is running smoothly before turning the government back to the politicians!

Oh, another "poll" it must be true then eh?

Could it be possible that this "poll" result was written to justify the extension of the coup makers power?

Come on, how could anyone be so naive to think that these "polls" are real?

Tom, don't you watch Thai television?

Don't you wonder sometimes about the multitude of news stories running each night featuring the wealthy elites (usually middle aged or older) at gala dinners, award ceremonies etc etc all dressed in their expensive clothes, the endless parade of military officers in their ice cream suits, all happening in Bangkok.

This is the power structure of Thailand Tom, this is where the money is concentrated and this is where they intend it to remain.

Not with the 90% of poor Thais in the rest of the country.

The coup was all about maintaining the power structure of traditional Thailand, the old established families close to the top of the pile, who own everything, but want more.

They couldn't give tuppence for the poor, it has always been like this and a modern democracy would spoil their party.

No, this is all about maintaining and entrenching the old power elite for as long as possible.

If you ever land at Don Muang airport, have a look down the end, past all the terminals, where all the private jets park.

if you time it right, you might be there when one of the old matrons and her entourage are returning from a shopping trip to Paris, to get the latest bag or a pair of shoes.

Check out the use of military or police escorts to usher them through the customs and immigration.

Two different worlds Tom, and they're running the country right now.

Wow Bob, you have a BIG chip on your shoulder at rich people. If he was still here Bob, the most expensive jet in that line would belong to Thaksin. There will be mega-rich whoever is in government : are you a communist Bob ?.

Do you seriously think Pheu-Thai care any more for the poor ?. If they did, Bob, why do you think they allowed the vast majority of the rice scheme money disappear in corruption instead of making sure the poor got it ?. Maybe you should go look around at who got rich under Pheu-Thai Bob and have a good whinge about them.

It's true, Bob, Thailand needs a better option than the Junta, but Thaksin and Pheu-Thai are not it. Maybe if all future politicians can campaign across the country without getting shot at by red-shirts, Thailand will take a step towards it.

Oh - and the coup was because Pheu-Thai were murdering protesters on the streets and had every intention of continuing to do it. If they stopped, there would have been no coup. Why do you people refuse to accept it Bob ?. What newspapers do you read ?.

I'm English, and have a bit of a clue. You, "EJ", have not got a clue and have no idea what you are talking about. Newspapers? Try reading some of the books you can't buy here, they may give you a clue to why this country is in such a mess, and why Thaksin upset the apple cart, Thailand's problems have been around a lot longer than before he came on the scene, but because i live here, i can't write what i wish to say...

[Mackie]

There was a Poll of the people over the weekend and 78% of Thai's wanted the present government to remain for another two (2) years! The Red Shirts

do not like the Charter and Constitution, so maybe the government is doing something right! I personally like the Corruption Courts being setup, so lets

give the people the government they want and wait until the government is running smoothly before turning the government back to the politicians!

Oh, another "poll" it must be true then eh?

Could it be possible that this "poll" result was written to justify the extension of the coup makers power?

Come on, how could anyone be so naive to think that these "polls" are real?

Tom, don't you watch Thai television?

Don't you wonder sometimes about the multitude of news stories running each night featuring the wealthy elites (usually middle aged or older) at gala dinners, award ceremonies etc etc all dressed in their expensive clothes, the endless parade of military officers in their ice cream suits, all happening in Bangkok.

This is the power structure of Thailand Tom, this is where the money is concentrated and this is where they intend it to remain.

Not with the 90% of poor Thais in the rest of the country.

The coup was all about maintaining the power structure of traditional Thailand, the old established families close to the top of the pile, who own everything, but want more.

They couldn't give tuppence for the poor, it has always been like this and a modern democracy would spoil their party.

No, this is all about maintaining and entrenching the old power elite for as long as possible.

If you ever land at Don Muang airport, have a look down the end, past all the terminals, where all the private jets park.

if you time it right, you might be there when one of the old matrons and her entourage are returning from a shopping trip to Paris, to get the latest bag or a pair of shoes.

Check out the use of military or police escorts to usher them through the customs and immigration.

Two different worlds Tom, and they're running the country right now.

Wow Bob, you have a BIG chip on your shoulder at rich people. If he was still here Bob, the most expensive jet in that line would belong to Thaksin. There will be mega-rich whoever is in government : are you a communist Bob ?.

Do you seriously think Pheu-Thai care any more for the poor ?. If they did, Bob, why do you think they allowed the vast majority of the rice scheme money disappear in corruption instead of making sure the poor got it ?. Maybe you should go look around at who got rich under Pheu-Thai Bob and have a good whinge about them.

It's true, Bob, Thailand needs a better option than the Junta, but Thaksin and Pheu-Thai are not it. Maybe if all future politicians can campaign across the country without getting shot at by red-shirts, Thailand will take a step towards it.

Oh - and the coup was because Pheu-Thai were murdering protesters on the streets and had every intention of continuing to do it. If they stopped, there would have been no coup. Why do you people refuse to accept it Bob ?. What newspapers do you read ?.

Ha ha oh great.. it's forelock tugger John.

Nothing like the British working class to know their place....

Born within a rigid class system like the English aristocracy control, it's hard to think outside the square John, and I sympathize with that.

No John, of course I'm not a communist, ha ha, how silly, I was born in an egalitarian society where democracy gives everyone a chance.

I started working class, yet with hard work and borrowed money I succeeded into upper middle class with assets and investments.

It makes me sick to see the poor struggle here, while the filthy rich families get richer.

it has nothing to do with Peu Thai, it has everything to do with the feudal history of Thailand, but for God's sake, it 2015 now, and yet these parasites still think it's 1800.

With the influx of foreign investment into this country, it has just made them greedier.

Anyway John, good to see you still know your place.

I assume you are a Yank. Don't you think you are being a hypocrite? You know very well that the biggest divide between the rich and the poor is in the USA, there are 55 million Americans who are officially classified poor, apparently there are 46 million Americans in need of basic food assistance etc...etc...Sort out your own house before you point fingers at others. The USA has turned into an oligarchy. The corporate rule. You can vote all you want, nothing changes, the Wall Street rules. The rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting poorer. Life in Thailand is better.

[seajae]

hahahaha, seems that some of the politicians/reds dont like the idea of being held accountable

Hahahaha, yes because corruption is only found among the redshirts!

Hahahaha, do you know how to read?

"Politicians/reds"

Actually, I read very well in four languages. Strange that you should leave out the color yellow in your post

the yellows never complained/gave an opinion or are you incapable of reading and understanding what is actually written, reading doesnt mean sh*t if you cannot fathom/understand what the words actually mean.

[h90]

if PTP hates it, it might be good.

Yes, because that seems to be the only criteria you cheerleaders seem to care about.

After seeing all the TRT, PPP, PTP you get like that.....Till now everything was just self serving.....But of course it could be that now for the first time in his history (PTP=Thaksin) changed. Likely: No

[thaiguzzi]

I am sure if there was a Real Poll 78 % of Thai's would like to escape and leave their own country beforew they would ever want this constituion.

I persoanlly liked how they have arrested, tried and placed over 56 people in prison with closed trials to observers for Dis-Loyalty! The Red's do not like the charter constitution....What is a RED? nowadays. Millions of people do not like the Charter or constition, most foreign governments find it a joke as it sends Thailand backwards in many areas. Let the Thai ROYAL Army shove it down the throats of Thai's with force.

Just get on with it and change the country from a "Constitional Monarchy" to an "Absolute Monarchy" as that my folks is no "Democratic Constitution"!

What do you mean by a real poll? I have every reason to believe the poll is correct and it reflects the will of the Thai people. Just because you don't like the results, you trash it with solely your own opinion and a lot of distorted remarks and rubbish

If you know Thais, and can inter-act with them, the poll should truthfully say 78% of Thai people are very unhappy at the moment with their life, their country and the current government. A large % are getting really pissed off.

[MZurf]

I am sure if there was a Real Poll 78 % of Thai's would like to escape and leave their own country beforew they would ever want this constituion.

I persoanlly liked how they have arrested, tried and placed over 56 people in prison with closed trials to observers for Dis-Loyalty! The Red's do not like the charter constitution....What is a RED? nowadays. Millions of people do not like the Charter or constition, most foreign governments find it a joke as it sends Thailand backwards in many areas. Let the Thai ROYAL Army shove it down the throats of Thai's with force.

Just get on with it and change the country from a "Constitional Monarchy" to an "Absolute Monarchy" as that my folks is no "Democratic Constitution"!

What do you mean by a real poll? I have every reason to believe the poll is correct and it reflects the will of the Thai people. Just because you don't like the results, you trash it with solely your own opinion and a lot of distorted remarks and rubbish

By a real poll he probably means a poll that has been done correctly, with a representative and sufficient number of people being asked neutral questions. If the poll was done in Bangkok in a posh neighborhood where only fair skinned people were asked questions like "don't you think it's much better now that the army is in charge and there are no more demonstrations?" then you probably would get 78% answering yes. In a correctly done poll I seriously doubt it.

I asked the poster who brought this up for sources but no answer yet. Maybe you have this information?

[MZurf]

if PTP hates it, it might be good.

Yes, because that seems to be the only criteria you cheerleaders seem to care about.

After seeing all the TRT, PPP, PTP you get like that.....Till now everything was just self serving.....But of course it could be that now for the first time in his history (PTP=Thaksin) changed. Likely: No

I seriously doubt that Thaksin has turned into a humanitarian and selfless philanthropist during his years in exile. But then again I just as seriously doubt that Suthep has turned into a saint during his stint as a monk.

My point is; there are "issues" with people on both/all side of this conflict, and the color of the snouts in the trough are red, yellow, green and all other colors. Thaksin was just "better" at it and that freaked the old establishment out.

[seajae]

hahahaha, seems that some of the politicians/reds dont like the idea of being held accountable , the threat of life bans for any criminal charges action/corruption would greatly reduce their ability to pocket all that extra cash they have been doing over the years and it is scaring the crap out of them. This is all about how they increase their bank accounts when they are elected to govern and as money is what they care about more than anything else it has them very worried, the other side is it will effectively cut out several of them from ever being elected/standing again(especially the ptp/reds big boss in the desert) as many are already within the terms stated, they dont care about the people, just themselves.

Got a news flash for you. The Democrats, and EVERY OTHER politician for the last 80 years has been corrupt to the bone. I know that doesn't fit into your "Reds are Evil" belief, but it's true. You may be a Suthep fan (your kind usually are). You do know that his corruption brought down his own Democratic Party, and has been called the most corrupt man in politics - BY HIS OWN PARTY MEMBERS!

Sorry of that doesn't seem clear through your military green glass lenses, but sometimes you have to take those off to see the truth as it REALLY is, and not what you want it to be.

you lot cant help yourselves can you, you also cannot understand the written language, I said politicians or do you think democrats arent politicians, talk about pathetic whingers. I mentioned everyone that was mentioned in the article, they were politicians from both sides and a red shirt. Some of you people really need to grow a brain and learn to use it, all politicians are corrupt, that is a given even if some are worse than others. The only people that would be complaining about a law that would bar them for life for being corrupt/criminal are all mentioned in my original post, politicians and reds.

[Just1Voice]

Funny, but where I live, 78% of the Thai I know, and talk to, are dead set against the Junta and think they should all be in jail for treason. Makes me wonder where they conducted this poll, and who they asked. And guess what, they're not all Red Shirts, either! Surprise, surprise!

[balford]

Hands up those who have actually read and understood the draft constitution. Hmmm, thought so - no hands showing. Heaven help us if the future of the country to which you came to willingly and which you constantly criticise is left to all you 'experts' to administer.

Bob A. Relaxed in Lampang.

[brucec64]

These dirty cronies voted 310:0 in a parliamentary disgrace to give themselves amnesty for all corruption charges since 2004.

I don't care what they think. They are unfit for office and should be in jail right now for abuse of power.

And the army gave themselves amnesty for treason. So, list there a "good" amnesty versus a "bad" amnesty?

Treason is a more serious offense than corruption, but don't let logic stand in the way of rehashing your same tired arguments.

[MZurf]

hahahaha, seems that some of the politicians/reds dont like the idea of being held accountable , the threat of life bans for any criminal charges action/corruption would greatly reduce their ability to pocket all that extra cash they have been doing over the years and it is scaring the crap out of them. This is all about how they increase their bank accounts when they are elected to govern and as money is what they care about more than anything else it has them very worried, the other side is it will effectively cut out several of them from ever being elected/standing again(especially the ptp/reds big boss in the desert) as many are already within the terms stated, they dont care about the people, just themselves.

Got a news flash for you. The Democrats, and EVERY OTHER politician for the last 80 years has been corrupt to the bone. I know that doesn't fit into your "Reds are Evil" belief, but it's true. You may be a Suthep fan (your kind usually are). You do know that his corruption brought down his own Democratic Party, and has been called the most corrupt man in politics - BY HIS OWN PARTY MEMBERS!

Sorry of that doesn't seem clear through your military green glass lenses, but sometimes you have to take those off to see the truth as it REALLY is, and not what you want it to be.

you lot cant help yourselves can you, you also cannot understand the written language, I said politicians or do you think democrats arent politicians, talk about pathetic whingers. I mentioned everyone that was mentioned in the article, they were politicians from both sides and a red shirt. Some of you people really need to grow a brain and learn to use it, all politicians are corrupt, that is a given even if some are worse than others. The only people that would be complaining about a law that would bar them for life for being corrupt/criminal are all mentioned in my original post, politicians and reds.

"you lot cant help yourselves can you, you also cannot understand the written language"

Has it ever occurred to you that what you write isn't very clear and consequently is misunderstood by most?

"The only people that would be complaining about a law that would bar them for life for being corrupt/criminal are all mentioned in my original post, politicians and reds."

There you go again!

[bamnutsak]

"Worst charter ever"

Mission accomplished.

[h90]

if PTP hates it, it might be good.

Yes, because that seems to be the only criteria you cheerleaders seem to care about.

After seeing all the TRT, PPP, PTP you get like that.....Till now everything was just self serving.....But of course it could be that now for the first time in his history (PTP=Thaksin) changed. Likely: No

I seriously doubt that Thaksin has turned into a humanitarian and selfless philanthropist during his years in exile. But then again I just as seriously doubt that Suthep has turned into a saint during his stint as a monk.

My point is; there are "issues" with people on both/all side of this conflict, and the color of the snouts in the trough are red, yellow, green and all other colors. Thaksin was just "better" at it and that freaked the old establishment out.

If you noted it people close to Suthep want to vote against the charter....

[MZurf]

Yes, because that seems to be the only criteria you cheerleaders seem to care about.

After seeing all the TRT, PPP, PTP you get like that.....Till now everything was just self serving.....But of course it could be that now for the first time in his history (PTP=Thaksin) changed. Likely: No

I seriously doubt that Thaksin has turned into a humanitarian and selfless philanthropist during his years in exile. But then again I just as seriously doubt that Suthep has turned into a saint during his stint as a monk.

My point is; there are "issues" with people on both/all side of this conflict, and the color of the snouts in the trough are red, yellow, green and all other colors. Thaksin was just "better" at it and that freaked the old establishment out.

If you noted it people close to Suthep want to vote against the charter....

Yes, I noticed that. For the junta and the yellows this is a win/win situation. Vote for the new charter and have the military control a weak elected government indefinitely. Vote against it and the junta will just continue to rule.

Suthep must be having the time of his life.

[Baerboxer]

This is all moot. If there is a real and fair referendum then the DRAFT will not pass and the NCPO will stay in power a lot longer than they promised.

How can people not think this has all been by design. Despite what they say the current people in power have absolutely no desire to see real Democracy come to this country.

How do you know the draft won't past? Are you assuming that people will vote Yes/No dependent on previous political affiliations?

"Despite what they say the current people in power have absolutely no desire to see real Democracy come to this country." Seems the case, but their again neither did the previous gang in power, or the one before that, or the one before that.

There is a weak judicial system and corrupt law enforcement. One law for the rich hiso elites and well connected, including all politicians and those that own political parties, and one for the other vast majority. Until that changes, and politicians are held accountable, civil servants are held accountable and those transgressing actually punished, democracy won't be achievable. It will simply the usual musical chairs and squabbling over the spoils by those at the top.

[Baerboxer]

I am sure if there was a Real Poll 78 % of Thai's would like to escape and leave their own country beforew they would ever want this constituion.

I persoanlly liked how they have arrested, tried and placed over 56 people in prison with closed trials to observers for Dis-Loyalty! The Red's do not like the charter constitution....What is a RED? nowadays. Millions of people do not like the Charter or constition, most foreign governments find it a joke as it sends Thailand backwards in many areas. Let the Thai ROYAL Army shove it down the throats of Thai's with force.

Just get on with it and change the country from a "Constitional Monarchy" to an "Absolute Monarchy" as that my folks is no "Democratic Constitution"!

What do you mean by a real poll? I have every reason to believe the poll is correct and it reflects the will of the Thai people. Just because you don't like the results, you trash it with solely your own opinion and a lot of distorted remarks and rubbish

If you know Thais, and can inter-act with them, the poll should truthfully say 78% of Thai people are very unhappy at the moment with their life, their country and the current government. A large % are getting really pissed off.

And of course you do. And interacted with a massive cross section of people to enable you to make such a profound statement?

Or did you talk to a few who happen to be friends because you share the same views?

Did that large pissed of % all love the Shins to and would welcome a return to a Shin utopia?

[LannaGuy]

Yes, I noticed that. For the junta and the yellows this is a win/win situation. Vote for the new charter and have the military control a weak elected government indefinitely. Vote against it and the junta will just continue to rule.

Suthep must be having the time of his life.

If anyone wants to keep the Military Junta in place vote NO if you want the 'un-democracy Thai style' vote YES

I'm sure the Junta have made it as bad as possible as this is their 'card' for staying in power and OBVIOUSLY Suthep will vote NO

PS: For those who lack the power of analysis (you know who you are Junta Lovers) this is a Junta win-win so you can start singing your 'happy songs' as you can't lose (for now)

Edited August 24, 2015 by LannaGuy

[ramrod711]

if PTP hates it, it might be good.

Yes, because that seems to be the only criteria you cheerleaders seem to care about.

So you are not a cheerleader, you are not biased and we are just as likely to see posts supporting this government as your pal Thaksins. Bullsh--t. What you are is a naysayer, nothing any government might do is good enough for you, if it isn't run by a Shin. As usual a total piece of crap of a post from you.

[Baerboxer]

Yes, I noticed that. For the junta and the yellows this is a win/win situation. Vote for the new charter and have the military control a weak elected government indefinitely. Vote against it and the junta will just continue to rule.

Suthep must be having the time of his life.

If anyone wants to keep the Military Junta in place vote NO if you want the 'un-democracy Thai style' vote YES

I'm sure the Junta have made it as bad as possible as this is their 'card' for staying in power and OBVIOUSLY Suthep will vote NO

PS: For those who lack the power of analysis (you know who you are Junta Lovers) this is a Junta win-win so you can start singing your 'happy songs' as you can't lose (for now)

The condescending arrogance of the Shin support club follows their master's lead.

Only we can analyse and see things clearly. Just like Thaksin is innocent, of everything ever, and we don't need trials thank you to know that; and Yingluck really was the in charge PM/DM and did a brilliant fantastic job as the first democratically elected female PM, the darling of Isaan, never lied, so righteous.

You must all have "polisher's elbow" by now, polishing those turds.

[Baerboxer]

No it's not a good reason to stomp out democracy. But then again, Thailand has never had real democracy. As J1V points out corruption goes back 80 years, and isn't confined to any party, group, politicians, civil servants (including police) and military. It is as normal as farting to these people, and has been for generations.

Now who is actually going to do something about changing it? Certainly not PTP and their fugitive boss. He wants blanket amnesty, get back here free as a bird, take control if he can and game on. The Dems, laughable as a party, it seems no policies but fight Thaksin and keep the rich richer and therefore happy. The Military, far too many skeletons in the cupboard and not exactly transparent about the huge wealth senior members have built up or their out of hours activities - just like their colleagues in the police.

There is a two tier law system. One for the rich, highly favorable and extremely liberal and one for the rest, highly unfavorable and conservative, draconian on occasion. Officers - police, OAG, etc are give massively wide discretionary powers, and are rarely challenged in their decisions of interpreting, enforcing and applying the law. A recipe for bribery and corruption.

So who will do anything?

A start might be some serious investigations, prosecutions where appropriate, and where convictions real punishments, life time bans, jail time, asset seizure etc.

and not limited by who someone is, their family, friends, connections or affiliations - all of them. But that would be people from the top echelons and that would never do.

Over to you, what's your solution?

Democracy and no one above the Law and yours is? Support the Military Junta and Thai Nationalism!

Where in my statement do I say the solution is to support the military?

Please show me or I will call libel.

oh you are changing your historical position that's great! welcome to the club dear fellow

No I'm not joining your club.

I'd like a democracy, with a real justice system, law enforcement and accountable transparent government that acts in accordance with the law in the interests of the nation.

The Shins don't seem to come to mind for any of that.

[MZurf]

if PTP hates it, it might be good.

Yes, because that seems to be the only criteria you cheerleaders seem to care about.

So you are not a cheerleader, you are not biased and we are just as likely to see posts supporting this government as your pal Thaksins. Bullsh--t. What you are is a naysayer, nothing any government might do is good enough for you, if it isn't run by a Shin. As usual a total piece of crap of a post from you.

If I really wrote what I think and feel about the previous governments I would run afoul of the Thai defamation laws as well as the forum rules. I have said so repeatedly but by all means don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

But you cheerleaders use Shins as an excuse for everything that the current rulers are doing and that is disingenuous - at best.

[MZurf]

Democracy and no one above the Law and yours is? Support the Military Junta and Thai Nationalism!

Where in my statement do I say the solution is to support the military?

Please show me or I will call libel.

oh you are changing your historical position that's great! welcome to the club dear fellow

No I'm not joining your club.

I'd like a democracy, with a real justice system, law enforcement and accountable transparent government that acts in accordance with the law in the interests of the nation.

The Shins don't seem to come to mind for any of that.

I totally agree, and neither does the current bunch. That's why I am not very optimistic regarding Thailand's near future.

[Baerboxer]

Where in my statement do I say the solution is to support the military?

Please show me or I will call libel.

oh you are changing your historical position that's great! welcome to the club dear fellow

No I'm not joining your club.

I'd like a democracy, with a real justice system, law enforcement and accountable transparent government that acts in accordance with the law in the interests of the nation.

The Shins don't seem to come to mind for any of that.

I totally agree, and neither does the current bunch. That's why I am not very optimistic regarding Thailand's near future.

I totally agree. My pessimism grows and grows. I just don't see any bright, new fresh untainted people coming to the fore to lead such changes.

[Baerboxer]

Thailand has never had real democracy.

patently not true. Why do you and other posters insist that there was never a democratic system in Thailand? Is it so that you can feel better about military "interventions"??

Let's look at the rest of your post - you seem to basically equate freedom from corruption or a fight against corruption as progress towards democracy... of course that position completely ignores the reality that democracy and corruption exist independent of one another. There is corruption to be found in democratic societies and in non-democratic alike. Corruption knows no political dogma.

Corruption is a blight on humanity. It certainly happens anywhere humans are. But, in most Western countries, and some Asian ones there are many who aren't corrupt, strong laws and punishments. Pick up any American or European paper and you can often find examples.

How many Thai politicians have really been punished. As an example look at Chalerm's career, vast wealth, fled to Denmark, came back, unstable drunkard, interesting story on tax evasion and cars. But he sits in his mansion, with all that wealth. Where did the unusual wealth case go? Or Suthep, where did the cases in palm oil or any other investigations go? Or Thaksin and his lending treasury money on low interest to Burma so they could buy from his family firm? All gets swept under the carpet. And their is no robust independent judicial system to stop it effectively.

Democracy cannot, does not and will not live where the corruption is so rife, openly rife, that it strangles it. Name one country riddled with corruption where democracy exists - or do you consider Zimbabwe a democracy? North Korea perhaps? They both vote, and in large number turnout elections. Must be democratic according to your measure, i.e. they have a democratic system.

Having a robust electoral system is not democracy, and Thailand certainly doesn't even have that.

Voting for people, who then break and ignore the law, lie cheat and steal, govern in their own interests, and hand over power to a non elected power; and then waiting until their term is over before deciding to vote them back in office is not democracy. Governments and politicians, and non elected criminals who own governments are not above the law.

All those Easter European people's democratic socialist republics had democratic systems - but were they democracies? By your criteria, yes they were.

Democracy will not reduce corruption without a fair robust judicial system. But those democratically elected can and will take full advantage of corruption, as the Shins demonstrated so well this century, when one doesn't exist.

You always imply that corruption is fine, as long as you were elected. And the only judge should be the electorate. That seems akin the the corrupt political exploitation that took place as the American West opened up in the 1800's. Seems your comfortable with corrupt politicians as long as they've been elected.

[tbthailand]

Thailand has never had real democracy.

patently not true. Why do you and other posters insist that there was never a democratic system in Thailand? Is it so that you can feel better about military "interventions"??

Let's look at the rest of your post - you seem to basically equate freedom from corruption or a fight against corruption as progress towards democracy... of course that position completely ignores the reality that democracy and corruption exist independent of one another. There is corruption to be found in democratic societies and in non-democratic alike. Corruption knows no political dogma.

Corruption is a blight on humanity. It certainly happens anywhere humans are. But, in most Western countries, and some Asian ones there are many who aren't corrupt, strong laws and punishments. Pick up any American or European paper and you can often find examples.

How many Thai politicians have really been punished. As an example look at Chalerm's career, vast wealth, fled to Denmark, came back, unstable drunkard, interesting story on tax evasion and cars. But he sits in his mansion, with all that wealth. Where did the unusual wealth case go? Or Suthep, where did the cases in palm oil or any other investigations go? Or Thaksin and his lending treasury money on low interest to Burma so they could buy from his family firm? All gets swept under the carpet. And their is no robust independent judicial system to stop it effectively.

Democracy cannot, does not and will not live where the corruption is so rife, openly rife, that it strangles it. Name one country riddled with corruption where democracy exists - or do you consider Zimbabwe a democracy? North Korea perhaps? They both vote, and in large number turnout elections. Must be democratic according to your measure, i.e. they have a democratic system.

Having a robust electoral system is not democracy, and Thailand certainly doesn't even have that.

Voting for people, who then break and ignore the law, lie cheat and steal, govern in their own interests, and hand over power to a non elected power; and then waiting until their term is over before deciding to vote them back in office is not democracy. Governments and politicians, and non elected criminals who own governments are not above the law.

All those Easter European people's democratic socialist republics had democratic systems - but were they democracies? By your criteria, yes they were.

Democracy will not reduce corruption without a fair robust judicial system. But those democratically elected can and will take full advantage of corruption, as the Shins demonstrated so well this century, when one doesn't exist.

You always imply that corruption is fine, as long as you were elected. And the only judge should be the electorate. That seems akin the the corrupt political exploitation that took place as the American West opened up in the 1800's. Seems your comfortable with corrupt politicians as long as they've been elected.

you don't get it.

democracy, or the lack of it, and corruption, have nothing to do with one another.

But you are focused on punishing politicians... you ask, How many Thai politicians have really been punished.

well, to be honest, many more politicians have been punished than generals...

(btw, I never said anything about NK or Zim. being democratic, that is just your imagination going wild...)

No one wants a corrupt society, but corruption is every where, even in democracies. Open societies which are democratic, have a free press, provide access to information, etc, - those are societies which are more able to deal with corruption when and where it happens.

Military juntas are not know to have any of those characteristics...

(edit: your last paragraph is total BS - I have NEVER implied in any way that corruption is fine.)

Edited August 24, 2015 by tbthailand

[LannaGuy]

Yes, I noticed that. For the junta and the yellows this is a win/win situation. Vote for the new charter and have the military control a weak elected government indefinitely. Vote against it and the junta will just continue to rule.

Suthep must be having the time of his life.

If anyone wants to keep the Military Junta in place vote NO if you want the 'un-democracy Thai style' vote YES

I'm sure the Junta have made it as bad as possible as this is their 'card' for staying in power and OBVIOUSLY Suthep will vote NO

PS: For those who lack the power of analysis (you know who you are Junta Lovers) this is a Junta win-win so you can start singing your 'happy songs' as you can't lose (for now)

The condescending arrogance of the Shin support club follows their master's lead.

Only we can analyse and see things clearly. Just like Thaksin is innocent, of everything ever, and we don't need trials thank you to know that; and Yingluck really was the in charge PM/DM and did a brilliant fantastic job as the first democratically elected female PM, the darling of Isaan, never lied, so righteous.

You must all have "polisher's elbow" by now, polishing those turds.

What's it to do with Thaksin? your debate is so unintelligent it's frightening as I don't support Thaksin nor am I a member of the 'Shin support club' you are so funny

"if you don't support the Junta = you are a Thaksin lover and a member of the Shin support club" this argument is so baseless and juvenile

Edited August 24, 2015 by LannaGuy

[LannaGuy]

No I'm not joining your club.

I'd like a democracy, with a real justice system, law enforcement and accountable transparent government that acts in accordance with the law in the interests of the nation.

The Shins don't seem to come to mind for any of that.

'The Shins'? you are amazing... truly... nothing to do with Shins this is about your beloved JUNTA coming up with an atrocious charter and hoping majority will vote against it so they stay in power OR for it so they stay in power

you are amazing, truly amazing...

Edited August 24, 2015 by LannaGuy