Belgium calls for major rethink of Schengen passport-free travel zone

[JHolmesJr]

These refugees also seem to have cultivated a sense of entitlement….no we won't just go anywhere in europe must be germany, sweden or england….why…so we can sit on our sorry useless asses, create communal ghettos, preach islam to the locals and generally leech free housing medical and unemployment off honest taxpayers….ridiculous.

[Usernames]

Yesterday on another thread I predicted the end of the Schengen Agreement, it is inevitable. These are the first signs of that.

Another Western freedom eroded and destroyed because of unchecked immigration bringing a tidal wave of people who simply want to take and then destroy what they find in Europe. It's almost like a barbarian horde.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Usernames

[micmichd]

Europeans are barbarians.

Get the numbers. Germany (80 mio inhabitants) expects 800,000 refugees, this is 1%.

Thailand (66 mio. inhabitants) has about 5 mio. refugees or immigrants, ca. 8%

There are incidents in Thailand, yes, but I've never heard any Thai blaming it on the refugees.

Europeans do, and they still make profit out of this international disaster. Landlords rent derelicts for usury prices to them, pimping agencies make profit, the banks make profit anyway. Thai ladies are supposed to work as prostitutes in Germany, authorities don't give a f*** as long as they can squeeze something out of them.

Your comfort days are over, Europe. Time to wake up. B

[Lissos]

Europeans are barbarians.

(snip)

Your comfort days are over, Europe. Time to wake up. B

Yep, I began sensing that this was underlying your posts.

Now you've confirmed it openly.

[Chicog]

Seems like a pretty dumb idea to me.

If they can't attack trains, they'll attack buses. If they can't attack buses they'll attack markets.

Stop punishing innocent people.

Close the door to muslim asylum seekers and let them sort out their problems in their homelands rather than exporting them to ours.

It is *always* muslims.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Chicog

[sandyf]

'... citizens can move between member states without needing to show a passport or identity papers.' They do need to be shown; otherwise every Tom, Dick and Mohammed would be able to move freely between countries. They simply don't get stamped.

No they don't need to be shown. I regularly flew to Dusseldorf, drove to Maastricht and Brussels, sometimes into Luxembourg and back to Dusseldorf. The only times my passport required was when catching the plane in Britain to Dusseldorf.

There are many old road borders where the old border checks have been dismantled and remain unmanned. If you drive from Dusseldorf to Roermond in Netherlands you pass a large NATO / British Military base right on the border. No security of any kind on that border, no checks, no customs, no show anyone anything because no one there.

I was stationed in Germany in the early 70s and regularly drove back and fore to the UK. Border control on the motorways was like permanent roadworks, queues for miles on end.

Anyone who thinks that is the way forward is on another planet.

You cannot get on the Bangkok metro without a security check, what is so difficult with that.

[sandyf]

People should bear in mind that more firearms are discharged in American schools than on EU transport.

[Naam]

Seems like a pretty dumb idea to me.

If they can't attack trains, they'll attack buses. If they can't attack buses they'll attack markets.

Stop punishing innocent people.

Close the door to muslim asylum seekers and let them sort out their problems in their homelands rather than exporting them to ours.

It is *always* muslims.

not when those "Muslims" have names like "Timothy McVeigh" or "Anders Behring Breivik" or "Andreas Baader" or "Ulrike Meinhof" or "O'Irish Republican Army" or "Fianna Éireann" or "ETA" or "Khalistan Zindabad" or "Tamil Tigers" or "FARC" or "Shining Path" or "Ulster Volunteer Force"

[micmichd]

Europeans are barbarians.

(snip)

Your comfort days are over, Europe. Time to wake up. B

Yep, I began sensing that this was underlying your posts.

Now you've confirmed it openly.

Yes, and it's not really news.

There's been all kinds of warnings for more than 20 years. Most politicians saw it coming, they simply didn't care.

Many people in Heidelberg asked me if I were not afraid of a civil war in Thailand. I told them "No, Thailand is a rather peaceful country. You will have a civil war in Europe, and I will not be on your side."

[ravip]

Instead of preventing terrorists, why not think why terrorists/terrorism are created and try to stop that?

I doubt that by default any human being is born a terrorist.

[ravip]

All these migrants economic or refugees overwhelmingly want to go to northern and western europe. Stop them. europe has no obligation to these people

"Europe has no obligation to these people"

If ONLY the politicians of the West stop preaching the countries in the East about been "good" some of these problems, if not a majority would end.

Just my 2 cents...

[Lissos]

The URL link below is a good starting point.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Spot on. Below, was one of many spot on moments...

Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrong at this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. The only principled ground that the Islamic States opponents could take is to say that certain core textYouztubb]traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,[/b] Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy.

Indeed. As I put it yesterday, trying to salvage metal from an old battleship, then making a statue of your own creation based on your tastes and using the old nameplate of the battleship for your own creation.

As was in the article, the man mentions how folks like Choudary are never found stuttering and he knew that to engage them and tell them they are not Islamic was to be drawn into losing. About two years ago I used to watch the lectures of him and his guest speakers on YouTube and this is what I also found. Most of these supposedly 'un-Islamic characters' know the history like the back of their hand, able to recount each battle and each response by Muhammad to issues presented, etc etc. With lightening speed all this rolled off the tongue, clear, direct. In other words, sharp as a sword edge.

Daesh is obviously a different kind of Islam, with no logical excuses for their terror.

Clearly you didn't read the article, Micmichd.

[ravip]

Someone should find out how these "terrorists" become "terrorists"

Guess quite a few had family members killed or injured by Western (maybe Soviet) troops or arms. Now they come to kill the killers of their families.

Look and find out if this spiral of violence can be stopped by compensations.

The West has to pay for the damage done in the East. Better in money than in lives. Or?

This is an absolute fact that the West is refusing to admit openly, or correct themselves.

Why are so many terrorists been created today?

[Naam]

Instead of preventing terrorists, why not think why terrorists/terrorism are created and try to stop that?

I doubt that by default any human being is born a terrorist.

my wife says i am

[bangon04]

Someone should find out how these "terrorists" become "terrorists"

Guess quite a few had family members killed or injured by Western (maybe Soviet) troops or arms. Now they come to kill the killers of their families.

Look and find out if this spiral of violence can be stopped by compensations.

The West has to pay for the damage done in the East. Better in money than in lives. Or?

If this attack is related to the calls for violence by Daesh, seems currently the majority are linked to Daesh, you really should research the Islamic vision for the apocalypse that Daesh leadership espouse. You could reasonably argue that Daesh leadership are in the game for revenge, money & power, but that's not what their selling to their acolytes, it's 7th Century Islamic delusions.

The URL link below is a good starting point.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Thank you for the link.

Daesh is obviously a different kind of Islam, with no logical excuses for their terror. Hopefully the majority of Moslems will wipe them out soon.

The refugees are the ones that don't agree with Daesh, do you really want to send them back to hell now?

The "majority of Moslems" seem to be very quiet on the subject.... and the ones that don't agree with Daesh still prefer to bring their religion and culture to European countries - ie they insist on making the European countries become more like the countries they are running away from. And if so many able-bodied moslem young men escape to European countries, then who should be challenging the extremists? If the west interferes the west is condemned and is blamed for causing the radicalisation.

[micmichd]

The URL link below is a good starting point.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Spot on. Below, was one of many spot on moments...

Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrong at this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. The only principled ground that the Islamic States opponents could take is to say that certain core textYouztubb]traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,[/b] Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy.

Indeed. As I put it yesterday, trying to salvage metal from an old battleship, then making a statue of your own creation based on your tastes and using the old nameplate of the battleship for your own creation.

As was in the article, the man mentions how folks like Choudary are never found stuttering and he knew that to engage them and tell them they are not Islamic was to be drawn into losing. About two years ago I used to watch the lectures of him and his guest speakers on YouTube and this is what I also found. Most of these supposedly 'un-Islamic characters' know the history like the back of their hand, able to recount each battle and each response by Muhammad to issues presented, etc etc. With lightening speed all this rolled off the tongue, clear, direct. In other words, sharp as a sword edge.

Daesh is obviously a different kind of Islam, with no logical excuses for their terror.

Clearly you didn't read the article, Micmichd.

Referring to medieval history is not a good excuse for me.

[augustwest]

Let them have their caliphate and send every Muslim in the western countries,Australia included there. Just their luggage in tow

[Chicog]

Seems like a pretty dumb idea to me.

If they can't attack trains, they'll attack buses. If they can't attack buses they'll attack markets.

Stop punishing innocent people.

Close the door to muslim asylum seekers and let them sort out their problems in their homelands rather than exporting them to ours.

It is *always* muslims.

not when those "Muslims" have names like "Timothy McVeigh" or "Anders Behring Breivik" or "Andreas Baader" or "Ulrike Meinhof" or "O'Irish Republican Army" or "Fianna Éireann" or "ETA" or "Khalistan Zindabad" or "Tamil Tigers" or "FARC" or "Shining Path" or "Ulster Volunteer Force"

Well if we just focus on 2000 onwards, which is the era in which most of us are actually living, I count ~300 muslim terrorist attacks that have received significant press coverage.

From your list?

There is little doubt where the biggest terrorist risk comes from these days whether you try and whitewash it or not.

Perversely, even Breivik was motivated by Islam, and he's one of your more recent ones.

If you want to remove the risk of Islamic terror, the answer is rather obvious.

How many of the recent attacks in Europe have been committed by asylum seekers or children thereof?

Let them seek asylum in "peaceful" and sparsely populated muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia. Pay those countries to take them.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Chicog

[Naam]

Well if we just focus on 2000 onwards, which is the era in which most of us are actually living, I count ~300 muslim terrorist attacks that have received significant press coverage.

From your list?

There is little doubt where the biggest terrorist risk comes from these days whether you try and whitewash it or not.

Perversely, even Breivik was motivated by Islam, and he's one of your more recent ones.

If you want to remove the risk of Islamic terror, the answer is rather obvious.

How many of the recent attacks in Europe have been committed by asylum seekers or children thereof?

Let them seek asylum in "peaceful" and sparsely populated muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia. Pay those countries to take them.

somehow i have strong doubts concerning the efficiency of your advice in this forum

but if it makes you feel better "blackwashing" all Muslims you have my blessing

[Grouse]

The URL link below is a good starting point.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Spot on. Below, was one of many spot on moments...

Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrong at this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. The only principled ground that the Islamic States opponents could take is to say that certain core textYouztubb]traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,[/b] Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy.

Indeed. As I put it yesterday, trying to salvage metal from an old battleship, then making a statue of your own creation based on your tastes and using the old nameplate of the battleship for your own creation.

As was in the article, the man mentions how folks like Choudary are never found stuttering and he knew that to engage them and tell them they are not Islamic was to be drawn into losing. About two years ago I used to watch the lectures of him and his guest speakers on YouTube and this is what I also found. Most of these supposedly 'un-Islamic characters' know the history like the back of their hand, able to recount each battle and each response by Muhammad to issues presented, etc etc. With lightening speed all this rolled off the tongue, clear, direct. In other words, sharp as a sword edge.

Daesh is obviously a different kind of Islam, with no logical excuses for their terror.

Clearly you didn't read the article, Micmichd.

Didn't we eventually get around to dealing with Choudary? I heard him justifying the demolish ions Mosul. What a dreadful person.

[Lissos]

Didn't we eventually get around to dealing with Choudary? I heard him justifying the demolish ions Mosul. What a dreadful person.

I've read only a basic headline but I think he and several others were 'arrested'. It is not the first time that arrest happened though, and quietly released later as they couldn't pin things on him as I believe he trained in law and has always been very carefull to word things in such a way that he could not fall into UK hate speech / terror promotion traps.

After all, what he sticks to is doctrine, not his own words, and Government would have to declare the doctrine hate speech and terrorism, a hole they'd never be able to dig themselves out of. However, it is possible that with the rise of ISIS he has got too close to the nerve with present references.

We'll see though. He's been around for a long time, survives to resurface under a new organisational name each time Government ban one name. Slippery and smart. I suspect he'll be quietly released. I watched his YouTube stuff when they were using the name Islam4UK or something like that. Even then, they operated on multiple YouTube channels lest one was taken down. Not one word was personal opinion. It was all Islamic history, how Muhammad acted, how his companions acted, etc. To ban him they'd have to ban the doctrine.

[pmugghc]

'... citizens can move between member states without needing to show a passport or identity papers.' They do need to be shown; otherwise every Tom, Dick and Mohammed would be able to move freely between countries. They simply don't get stamped.

Wrong!

[pmugghc]

Sadly, it does look like tightening up the Schengen area would be a good idea.

Of course UK and Scandinavia are outside the zone anyway

Maybe Benelux area and Mediterranean areas? - I don't think Luxembourg needs grenzpolizei

Right now, you don't even need to show a passport if you're on the autobahns

(It did use to be fun in a pathetic way to collect stamps in one's passport though)

Wrong, Scandinavia is part of Schengen.

[Lissos]

Referring to medieval history is not a good excuse for me.

Islam is the final message for humanity, according to Islam.

Nowhere does it say - "amend for later eras".