US is now averaging more than one mass shooting per day in 2015

[cumgranosalum]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

Wrong about what?

[PHP87]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

Wrong about what?

Do you want a list?

It's obvious that that may here have little to no knowledge of firearms/firearm training.

If you can't see it, then you are likely one of them.

How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing.

My advice is that if you don't own a firearm and don't wish to do so, especially if you don't reside in the US, perhaps you should stick to subjects you have a clue about.

Edited September 6, 2015 by PHP87

[Tep]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

They are not the ones who used the word bloviate.

Gun nerds blowing each other about technical minutiae is not a very meaningful discussion. Lack of technical knowledge does not disqualify anyone from expressing an opinion on this subject. You have no authority to tell another person they are wrong no matter how many bb guns you had as a sprig.

The racism expressed by US gun proponents is now unfortunately standard fare on social media. It diminishes the user and it diminishes the argument.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[PHP87]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

They are not the ones who used the word bloviate.

Gun nerds blowing each other about technical minutiae is not a very meaningful discussion. Lack of technical knowledge does not disqualify anyone from expressing an opinion on this subject. You have no authority to tell another person they are wrong no matter how many bb guns you had as a sprig.

The racism expressed by US gun proponents is now unfortunately standard fare on social media. It diminishes the user and it diminishes the argument.

In other words, you don't know squat about guns yet feel you are in a position to speak of them on a expert level.

Again, stop embarrassing yourself.

Or not. It's entertaining watching people ignorant about a subject blather on and on as if they know what the hell they are talking about.

I find it amusing. At your expense.

And since when is stating the fact that about 75% of gun murders are committed by about 6% of the population, mainly black males between the ages of 15-32?

Throw out that number and the US has one of the lowest gun crime rates in the world.

Homogeneous states like Wyoming and Utah and lower gun murder rates than the UK. Gee, now what could be the reason for that, despite the fact that those states have high gun ownership?

The dirty little secret is that America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a black violence problem.

But I guess stating the truth is racist. Perhaps the truth has a racist bias.

Edited September 6, 2015 by PHP87

[vogie]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

Wrong about what?

Do you want a list?

It's obvious that that may here have little to no knowledge of firearms/firearm training.

If you can't see it, then you are likely one of them.

How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing.

My advice is that if you don't own a firearm and don't wish to do so, especially if you don't reside in the US, perhaps you should stick to subjects you have a clue about.

Not personly familiar with the Tueller drill, but have owned quite a few Black and Deckers.

[cumgranosalum]

"How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing."

QED!

The amazing thing is this guy is so wrapped up in his guns, he has no idea he is actually part of the problem!

Edited September 6, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[beechguy]

"How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing."

QED!

The amazing thing is this guy is so wrapped up in his guns, he has no idea he is actually part of the problem!

Amazing how many people read a few articles, and think they know something. You don't, and are oblivious to your level of ignorance.

However, if you truly are concerned, I invite you, to go to Chicago, start a door to door campaign, asking them to surrender their weapons. You may learn something.

[UKJASE]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

This thread is not primarily about guns though, is it.

it is about all the human life that is wasted due to the stupid gun laws in america

that is what is on debate here.

not the technical breakdown of a your beloved hand gun, but the thousands of innocent lives lost, due to some citizens insistence on being allowed to own a gun

[chuckd]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

This thread is not primarily about guns though, is it.

it is about all the human life that is wasted due to the stupid gun laws in america

that is what is on debate here.

not the technical breakdown of a your beloved hand gun, but the thousands of innocent lives lost, due to some citizens insistence on being allowed to own a gun

You seem to think you have all the answers so let me pose a few questions.

What would you propose doing for all those thousand and thousands of guns that are illegally owned, obtained and used in the commission of crimes in the US daily?

How would you go about rounding up all those guns and what would you propose doing with those found to be in possession of illegally obtained firearms?

Where are you going to start this imaginary campaign? Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Washington DC, Los Angeles? Where, exactly?

Are you going to start with the Latin drug gangs or the black gangs or the Mexican cartels?

What are you going to do when the bad guys refuse to heed your request? Call in the National Guard?

But let's move on. Assuming you have managed to get all the guns away from the criminal element, how do you plan to get the guns away from all the law abiding citizens that own them? Remember now, they have broken no laws and have purchased and own the guns in compliance with existing legislation.

Do you pass legislation making it a crime to own a gun and demand law abiding citizens turn their guns in for melt down?

Oops! Can't do that because any law such as this would be in violation of the Second Amendment, thereby unconstitutional.

Since that isn't a very good option, there is always the possibility of deleting the Second Amendment. That simply means you must get the State Legislatures in 34 states to agree on removing the Second Amendment and make the ownership of guns by any citizen illegal.

You might get as many as three or four states agree to removing the Second Amendment. The remainder would laugh you out of their Capitol building.

So, again I ask. What's your plan?

Lacking a legitimate plan, you only have bashing the US and its citizens as your only recourse.

Edited September 6, 2015 by chuckd

[Thakkar]

In a paper presented two weeks ago to the American Sociological Association, the researchers concluded that "Despite having only about 5 percent of the world's population, the United States was the attack site for a disproportionate 31 percent of public mass shooters globally"

(http://phys.org/news/2015-08-percent-world-population-mass-shooters.html#jCp)

"My study provides empirical evidence, based on my quantitative assessment of 171 countries, that a nation's civilian firearm ownership rate is the strongest predictor of its number of public mass shooters," said the study's author.

The problem is the easy availability of firearms. Whether you're comparing countries or states within countries, the fact is that easy availability leads to more people with more guns. More guns leads to more gun deaths.

(http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/09/19/u-s-has-more-guns-and-gun-deaths-than-any-other-country-study-finds/) and (http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2013.301409?journalCode=ajph&)

Another problem with tens of millions of households having guns at home is that EVERY YEAR (on average) a quarter of a million guns are stolen in household burglaries. Those stolen guns aren't going to be used for good or to protect true patriots from a tyrannical government. (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fshbopc0510.pdf)

There's no escaping the conclusion that fewer guns would mean fewer mass shootings, fewer suicides (see my earlier posts), fewer homicides and fewer accidental gun-related deaths and injuries.

Now, YOU may be a responsible, well-trained, completely and always sane, never suicidal gun owner who should not have to give up your guns. The issue to consider is whether thousands of avoidable deaths every.single.year is a worthwhile price to pay for your second amendment rights.

T

[beechguy]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

They are not the ones who used the word bloviate.

Gun nerds blowing each other about technical minutiae is not a very meaningful discussion. Lack of technical knowledge does not disqualify anyone from expressing an opinion on this subject. You have no authority to tell another person they are wrong no matter how many bb guns you had as a sprig.

The racism expressed by US gun proponents is now unfortunately standard fare on social media. It diminishes the user and it diminishes the argument.

Sure, the person has a right to express his opinion, it's also correct, when one points out how misinformed and ignorant it is. I think technical and other knowledge is important, but if you think it's ok to make up sxx as you go along, very well have at it.

Edited September 6, 2015 by beechguy

[beechguy]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

This thread is not primarily about guns though, is it.

it is about all the human life that is wasted due to the stupid gun laws in america

that is what is on debate here.

not the technical breakdown of a your beloved hand gun, but the thousands of innocent lives lost, due to some citizens insistence on being allowed to own a gun

If our gun laws are stupid, it is because of people like you, who chose to ignore factual information. Colorado is a perfect example. They used erroneous information, repeated by Obama administration etc. Now they have a program with a dozen vacant positions, and a few million dollars sitting unused, because they attacked a problem that didn't exit.

I'll repeat my deleted invitation, I'm sure you'll be welcomed in Chicago if you want to start there on a gun confiscation program.

[Linky]

If someone breaks into my house in australia, even if he has a gun, it is very unlikely I will be shot because he knows I will not have a gun. In all probability just tied up while he takes what he wants. Police can deal with it later.

In US because people have guns a break and enter can have a gun death so easily.

In australia there are very few deaths from police pulling over drivers as they know the driver is very unlikely to have a gun, its usually a chat and a ticket and on your way. In the US because police must assume the worst they must consider ebery driver to be armed with a gun so it makes the police more aggressive and trigger happy so as a general rule, in a gun culture, more are shot.

Says a lot about society when even police are so scared they would rather shoot someone instaed of themselves being shot, simply because a person has a right to own a gun.

That mindset needs to change so that the norm is for the public not to have guns then the police are not prone to shoot.

If you dont have that then the police will continue to shoot for the slightest thing. A product of their own own freedom.

Not to mention how easy is is for accidental shootings by kids.

A product of their own wrongly perceived freedom that the rest of the world can see but the US is blinded by idiocy.

[capcc76]

If someone breaks into my house in australia, even if he has a gun, it is very unlikely I will be shot because he knows I will not have a gun. In all probability just tied up while he takes what he wants. Police can deal with it later.

In US because people have guns a break and enter can have a gun death so easily.

In australia there are very few deaths from police pulling over drivers as they know the driver is very unlikely to have a gun, its usually a chat and a ticket and on your way. In the US because police must assume the worst they must consider ebery driver to be armed with a gun so it makes the police more aggressive and trigger happy so as a general rule, in a gun culture, more are shot.

Says a lot about society when even police are so scared they would rather shoot someone instaed of themselves being shot, simply because a person has a right to own a gun.

That mindset needs to change so that the norm is for the public not to have guns then the police are not prone to shoot.

If you dont have that then the police will continue to shoot for the slightest thing. A product of their own own freedom.

Not to mention how easy is is for accidental shootings by kids.

A product of their own wrongly perceived freedom that the rest of the world can see but the US is blinded by idiocy.

Lol, you have no clue about that which you speak. Entertaining though. Curious, you said you and your live in Muslim girl live some place other than Australia and would never return after how the Australians treated your Muslim girl. So now you live in Australia?

99.999 % of the US is way more intelligent. The idiocy factor of which you speak is such a small percentage .0001 by my count. The idiocy is the fools who think this stuff represents the majority of the US.

[capcc76]

Lol, but don't get me wrong. I understand there are many pathetic folks out there that need to jump to a lot of incorrect assumption about the US and the people from the US to feel better about themselves. The fact remains that more introspection on yourself is probably as visible if you live in a far away land and are bothered by headlines and articles such as these.

Lets see. I lived here for a long time, have a huge social circle of friend and other than the occasional news articles such as these I never see a gun or hear about guns, ever. So those trying to make this a constant picture of the US are either sadly mistaken or just idiots that feel the need to point at others to feel better about themselves.

[chuckd]

This thread is not primarily about guns though, is it.

it is about all the human life that is wasted due to the stupid gun laws in america

that is what is on debate here.

not the technical breakdown of a your beloved hand gun, but the thousands of innocent lives lost, due to some citizens insistence on being allowed to own a gun

You seem to think you have all the answers so let me pose a few questions.

What would you propose doing for all those thousand and thousands of guns that are illegally owned, obtained and used in the commission of crimes in the US daily?

How would you go about rounding up all those guns and what would you propose doing with those found to be in possession of illegally obtained firearms?

Where are you going to start this imaginary campaign? Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Washington DC, Los Angeles? Where, exactly?

Are you going to start with the Latin drug gangs or the black gangs or the Mexican cartels?

What are you going to do when the bad guys refuse to heed your request? Call in the National Guard?

But let's move on. Assuming you have managed to get all the guns away from the criminal element, how do you plan to get the guns away from all the law abiding citizens that own them? Remember now, they have broken no laws and have purchased and own the guns in compliance with existing legislation.

Do you pass legislation making it a crime to own a gun and demand law abiding citizens turn their guns in for melt down?

Oops! Can't do that because any law such as this would be in violation of the Second Amendment, thereby unconstitutional.

Since that isn't a very good option, there is always the possibility of deleting the Second Amendment. That simply means you must get the State Legislatures in 34 states to agree on removing the Second Amendment and make the ownership of guns by any citizen illegal.

You might get as many as three or four states agree to removing the Second Amendment. The remainder would laugh you out of their Capitol building.

So, again I ask. What's your plan?

Lacking a legitimate plan, you only have bashing the US and its citizens as your only recourse.

And not one of the anti gun zealots has answered one question or proposed one plan to do anything.

Where are all the great ideas to solve the problems?

Try to come up with something besides the usual US bashing.

[Linky]

If someone breaks into my house in australia, even if he has a gun, it is very unlikely I will be shot because he knows I will not have a gun. In all probability just tied up while he takes what he wants. Police can deal with it later.

In US because people have guns a break and enter can have a gun death so easily.

In australia there are very few deaths from police pulling over drivers as they know the driver is very unlikely to have a gun, its usually a chat and a ticket and on your way. In the US because police must assume the worst they must consider ebery driver to be armed with a gun so it makes the police more aggressive and trigger happy so as a general rule, in a gun culture, more are shot.

Says a lot about society when even police are so scared they would rather shoot someone instaed of themselves being shot, simply because a person has a right to own a gun.

That mindset needs to change so that the norm is for the public not to have guns then the police are not prone to shoot.

If you dont have that then the police will continue to shoot for the slightest thing. A product of their own own freedom.

Not to mention how easy is is for accidental shootings by kids.

A product of their own wrongly perceived freedom that the rest of the world can see but the US is blinded by idiocy.

Lol, you have no clue about that which you speak. Entertaining though. Curious, you said you and your live in Muslim girl live some place other than Australia and would never return after how the Australians treated your Muslim girl. So now you live in Australia?

99.999 % of the US is way more intelligent. The idiocy factor of which you speak is such a small percentage .0001 by my count. The idiocy is the fools who think this stuff represents the majority of the US.

No i dont live in australia. The post was to point out what would happen in australia.

[chuckd]

If someone breaks into my house in australia, even if he has a gun, it is very unlikely I will be shot because he knows I will not have a gun. In all probability just tied up while he takes what he wants. Police can deal with it later.

In US because people have guns a break and enter can have a gun death so easily.

In australia there are very few deaths from police pulling over drivers as they know the driver is very unlikely to have a gun, its usually a chat and a ticket and on your way. In the US because police must assume the worst they must consider ebery driver to be armed with a gun so it makes the police more aggressive and trigger happy so as a general rule, in a gun culture, more are shot.

Says a lot about society when even police are so scared they would rather shoot someone instaed of themselves being shot, simply because a person has a right to own a gun.

That mindset needs to change so that the norm is for the public not to have guns then the police are not prone to shoot.

If you dont have that then the police will continue to shoot for the slightest thing. A product of their own own freedom.

Not to mention how easy is is for accidental shootings by kids.

A product of their own wrongly perceived freedom that the rest of the world can see but the US is blinded by idiocy.

Lol, you have no clue about that which you speak. Entertaining though. Curious, you said you and your live in Muslim girl live some place other than Australia and would never return after how the Australians treated your Muslim girl. So now you live in Australia?

99.999 % of the US is way more intelligent. The idiocy factor of which you speak is such a small percentage .0001 by my count. The idiocy is the fools who think this stuff represents the majority of the US.

No i dont live in australia. The post was to point out what would happen in australia.

Are you somehow claiming the criminals in Australia are more user friendly than criminals elsewhere?

You would rather submit both yourself and your girlfriend to the whims of some criminal than take protective action in the hopes they will just tie you up and leave?

Talk about being blinded by idiocy!

[Linky]

If someone breaks into my house in australia, even if he has a gun, it is very unlikely I will be shot because he knows I will not have a gun. In all probability just tied up while he takes what he wants. Police can deal with it later.

In US because people have guns a break and enter can have a gun death so easily.

In australia there are very few deaths from police pulling over drivers as they know the driver is very unlikely to have a gun, its usually a chat and a ticket and on your way. In the US because police must assume the worst they must consider ebery driver to be armed with a gun so it makes the police more aggressive and trigger happy so as a general rule, in a gun culture, more are shot.

Says a lot about society when even police are so scared they would rather shoot someone instaed of themselves being shot, simply because a person has a right to own a gun.

That mindset needs to change so that the norm is for the public not to have guns then the police are not prone to shoot.

If you dont have that then the police will continue to shoot for the slightest thing. A product of their own own freedom.

Not to mention how easy is is for accidental shootings by kids.

A product of their own wrongly perceived freedom that the rest of the world can see but the US is blinded by idiocy.

Lol, you have no clue about that which you speak. Entertaining though. Curious, you said you and your live in Muslim girl live some place other than Australia and would never return after how the Australians treated your Muslim girl. So now you live in Australia?

99.999 % of the US is way more intelligent. The idiocy factor of which you speak is such a small percentage .0001 by my count. The idiocy is the fools who think this stuff represents the majority of the US.

No i dont live in australia. The post was to point out what would happen in australia.

Are you somehow claiming the criminals in Australia are more user friendly than criminals elsewhere?

You would rather submit both yourself and your girlfriend to the whims of some criminal than take protective action in the hopes they will just tie you up and leave?

Talk about being blinded by idiocy!

How does the number of mass shootings in australia compare to that of the US?

Then ask yourself about idiocy.

[UKJASE]

Why do people that know little to nothing about firearms,self-defense and Defensive Gun Uses feel the need to bloviate and post endlessly about their lack of knowledge of firearms and debate those that have a life-long knowledge of the subject and tell them they are wrong?

You are basically embarrassing yourselves.

This thread is not primarily about guns though, is it.

it is about all the human life that is wasted due to the stupid gun laws in america

that is what is on debate here.

not the technical breakdown of a your beloved hand gun, but the thousands of innocent lives lost, due to some citizens insistence on being allowed to own a gun

You seem to think you have all the answers so let me pose a few questions.

What would you propose doing for all those thousand and thousands of guns that are illegally owned, obtained and used in the commission of crimes in the US daily?

How would you go about rounding up all those guns and what would you propose doing with those found to be in possession of illegally obtained firearms?

Where are you going to start this imaginary campaign? Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Washington DC, Los Angeles? Where, exactly?

Are you going to start with the Latin drug gangs or the black gangs or the Mexican cartels?

What are you going to do when the bad guys refuse to heed your request? Call in the National Guard?

But let's move on. Assuming you have managed to get all the guns away from the criminal element, how do you plan to get the guns away from all the law abiding citizens that own them? Remember now, they have broken no laws and have purchased and own the guns in compliance with existing legislation.

Do you pass legislation making it a crime to own a gun and demand law abiding citizens turn their guns in for melt down?

Oops! Can't do that because any law such as this would be in violation of the Second Amendment, thereby unconstitutional.

Since that isn't a very good option, there is always the possibility of deleting the Second Amendment. That simply means you must get the State Legislatures in 34 states to agree on removing the Second Amendment and make the ownership of guns by any citizen illegal.

You might get as many as three or four states agree to removing the Second Amendment. The remainder would laugh you out of their Capitol building.

So, again I ask. What's your plan?

Lacking a legitimate plan, you only have bashing the US and its citizens as your only recourse.

well a gun amnesty has worked in australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, so why wouldn't it work in the US?

Law abiding citizens will do what the law tells them to do.

Surely americans must realise that one day they are going to have to adopt stricter laws, as these killings cannot go on like this forever.

Like is stated above in Linky's excellent post, the cops are so fearful these days, that they are killing many unarmed citizens weekly.

The gun laws have to change, so better to do it sooner rather than later. Of course it will be difficult at first, but if the police up their game and big fines are given to people for possessing a gun, and money is offered for the guns to be handed in to be destroyed, then a large proportion of guns will be removed from society.

there will still remain a large amount of guns held illegally, but with better police work and stiff sentences for gun possession, the number being carried will reduce further. as less guns are being carried and less people getting shot, this will make people realise they dont need to carry a gun around with them anymore to feel safe, and the small time gang members would be more likely to leave the gun at home, rather than carry it around for it's perceived protection. (maybe just a small knife in the sock, london style)

it would be a long process, but it is something that will benefit the country in the long run, and benefit many of it's neighbouring countries too

[Bangkok Herps]

Do you want a list?

It's obvious that that may here have little to no knowledge of firearms/firearm training.

If you can't see it, then you are likely one of them.

How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing.

My advice is that if you don't own a firearm and don't wish to do so, especially if you don't reside in the US, perhaps you should stick to subjects you have a clue about.

4 - but does an over/under count as two?

Safety training, not self-defense

yes

depends on what time period of my life you're talking about

yes

yes

yes

familiar, but never trained in it

yes

So do I get to play now? I think there should be significantly stricter gun-control, primarily to reduce three major factors behind gun deaths:

1) Middle-men buying guns legally to then be resold illegally, without repercussions

2) Quick and easy access to guns increasing the deadliness of crimes of passion and attempted sucide

3) A huge unreguated gun supply providing a critical mass making it easy for guns to be present in crime, both because it's so easy for criminals to acquire guns with the huge supply, and because guns are often brought into the situation by non-criminals, which both increases the likelihood of criminals acquiring guns and increases the likelihood of criminals using guns when they otherwise wouldn't.

However, even more than gun control, one the biggest things we need in America is a different attitude towards guns. They aren't tools for keeping you safe, they make you less safe, as has been proved over and over again. Now, that doesn't mean that I think they should be banned - we allow cars even though driving in a car doesn't make us safe either. But we should regulate them as such - guns should be registered just like cars are, and we should be working to take measures that make them safer.

* Why should a driving license take far more work to acquire than a gun license?

* Why is there constant safety research to improve cars while gun death research is completely ignored, and even attempts to research are blocked by Congress under lobbying from the NRA?

* And too many traffic tickets and you can lose your driver's license, but it takes a felony before you lose your inherent right to own a gun?

I'm not going to try and stop you from owning a gun. But we should work to take measures that will make that gun less likely to be used in a crime or violence. And you should realize that the gun is a tool that makes life slightly more dangerous for you and your family and your neighbors, not less. That's true for accidents, murders, and suicides - all three are less likely if you don't have your own gun present, and there's a ton of research behind that. We can try to have a logical conversation about this, or we can continue with the constant emotionalism and immaturity that seems to only infect the American gun debate. If we as Americans were reasonable about this issue for even a single political cycle, it would change a lot.

Do you want a list?

It's obvious that that may here have little to no knowledge of firearms/firearm training.

If you can't see it, then you are likely one of them.

How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing.

My advice is that if you don't own a firearm and don't wish to do so, especially if you don't reside in the US, perhaps you should stick to subjects you have a clue about.

The funniest part is that you're acting like this knowledge should be pre-requisite for someone participating in a conversation about gun ownership.

Yet most people like you (and I assume you yourself) would never suggest that this knowledge be pre-requisite for, you know, owning a freaking gun.

[lostoday]

Everyone I know thinks training in gun safety should be a pre requisite to gun ownership. http://www.nrainstructors.org/search.aspx

[cumgranosalum]

"How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing."

QED!

The amazing thing is this guy is so wrapped up in his guns, he has no idea he is actually part of the problem!

Amazing how many people read a few articles, and think they know something. You don't, and are oblivious to your level of ignorance.

However, if you truly are concerned, I invite you, to go to Chicago, start a door to door campaign, asking them to surrender their weapons. You may learn something.

You mean Chicago? my father's home town?....Maybe I should just get my Dad to do that.....he'll find your comments quite risible.

But you just keep on making assumptions about other posters - it just shows how poor your critical abilities actually are.

If you stopped oiling your guns and did a bit of reading yourself you might even feel the benefit.

BTW - I had a gun licence too.

Edited September 7, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[lostoday]

"How may guns have you owned?

Have you had any self-defense training? If so, how many hours?

Can you disassemble and reassemble a variety of firearms?

How much time do you spend at the range?

Can you name the various parts that comprise a semi-auto pistol?

Or a semi-auto rifle?

Do you even know that basic rules of firearm safety?

Are you familiar with the Tueller drill?

Have you ever reloaded your own brass?

It's also obvious that this discussion is veiled America-bashing."

QED!

The amazing thing is this guy is so wrapped up in his guns, he has no idea he is actually part of the problem!

Amazing how many people read a few articles, and think they know something. You don't, and are oblivious to your level of ignorance.

However, if you truly are concerned, I invite you, to go to Chicago, start a door to door campaign, asking them to surrender their weapons. You may learn something.

You mean Chicago? my father's home town?....Maybe I should just get my Dad to do that.....he'll find your comments quite risible.

But you just keep on making assumptions about other posters - it just shows how poor your critical abilities actually are.

If you stopped oiling your guns and did a bit of reading yourself you might even feel the benefit.

BTW - I had a gun licence too.

Your post makes no sense except as an insult. There are parts of Chicago that police or firemen don't go. There are parts where only millionaires live.

Why write to only insult? No one is going to give you their guns in Chicago. Chicago is going in the opposite direction.

Chicago Gun Registry, In Place Since 1968, Abolished In Victory For Gun Groups

CHICAGO, Sept 11 (Reuters) - Chicago on Wednesday reluctantly abolished a 45-year-old requirement that gun owners register their weapons with the city, marking a victory for advocates of gun rights such as the National Rifle Association.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/chicago-gun-laws/

[capcc76]

Lol, you have no clue about that which you speak. Entertaining though. Curious, you said you and your live in Muslim girl live some place other than Australia and would never return after how the Australians treated your Muslim girl. So now you live in Australia?

99.999 % of the US is way more intelligent. The idiocy factor of which you speak is such a small percentage .0001 by my count. The idiocy is the fools who think this stuff represents the majority of the US.

No i dont live in australia. The post was to point out what would happen in australia.

Are you somehow claiming the criminals in Australia are more user friendly than criminals elsewhere?

You would rather submit both yourself and your girlfriend to the whims of some criminal than take protective action in the hopes they will just tie you up and leave?

Talk about being blinded by idiocy!

How does the number of mass shootings in australia compare to that of the US?

Then ask yourself about idiocy.

How about being overly concerned about something that does not impact you and that for which you have very little knowledge to the point creating labels and being judgmental.

Then ask yourself about idiocy.

Edited September 7, 2015 by capcc76

[Ulysses G.]

well a gun amnesty has worked in australia, after the Port Arthur massacre, so why wouldn't it work in the US?

There is no second amendment - the right to keep and bear arms - in Australia or 300 million guns on the streets that very few people will turn in. The situation is very different.

[lostoday]

Speaking of Chicago as one knowledgeable poster brought up. Chicago has an endemic problem with poverty and a high concentration of segregation," Siska said. "The persistent problems with violence are rooted in poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunities. The city has abandoned some neighborhoods and doesn't care what happens in some communities."

A bloody end to the summer pushed the rise in homicides to 23 percent by Thursday, up from a 14 percent increase as of June 1. On Wednesday alone, eight people were shot to death in homicides, the most in a single day in Chicago in more than 12 years.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-violence-end-of-summer-met-20150904-story.html

Edited September 7, 2015 by lostoday

[Linky]

Lol, you have no clue about that which you speak. Entertaining though. Curious, you said you and your live in Muslim girl live some place other than Australia and would never return after how the Australians treated your Muslim girl. So now you live in Australia?

99.999 % of the US is way more intelligent. The idiocy factor of which you speak is such a small percentage .0001 by my count. The idiocy is the fools who think this stuff represents the majority of the US.

No i dont live in australia. The post was to point out what would happen in australia.

Are you somehow claiming the criminals in Australia are more user friendly than criminals elsewhere?

You would rather submit both yourself and your girlfriend to the whims of some criminal than take protective action in the hopes they will just tie you up and leave?

Talk about being blinded by idiocy!

How does the number of mass shootings in australia compare to that of the US?

Then ask yourself about idiocy.

How about being overly concerned about something that does not impact you and that for which you have very little knowledge to the point creating labels and being judgmental.

Then ask yourself about idiocy.

Be ause this is a forum, its for discussion. Even an idiot would understand that.

What makes you think it does not impact me?

Your own post is judgmental. Go figure.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts removed along with replies.