Retirement Visa - giving up work permit

[Galong]

Well, in two years I'm planning on taking an early retirement using my US Social Security (not as my sole plan, but as a big part of it). I've not looked into the retirement visa, but I assume it's still be of age and have 800,000 Baht in a Thai banks, isn't it?

I have a work permit and have had one for over 20 years. It's kind of scary to think about giving that up to be honest. If something ever happened and I had to start working again, I wonder how difficult it would be to get a work permit back as someone who is over 60 years old... anyone have any insight?

With this, I'm also thinking about changing my company from a co. ltd. to a Thai sole proprietor. Would changing it back be a nightmare if it came to that?

I wouldn't actually mind keeping my work permit and work while on Social Security, but it means a pretty substantial loss of SS benefit as, the way I understand it, I'd lose $1 for ever $2 that I made over a certain income... that is currently around US$15+ K. At the Thai government says I must pay myself 50K per month salary as an American, I don't see any way of not exceeding this 15k mark.

Has anyone else gone through or know anyone else who has gone through anything similar? Any suggestions, clues, insight are greatly appreciated.

[Colabamumbai]

I have been granted Work Permits at over 60 years of age twice

I will be 65 next month, teaching. With Non O for retirement when not working.

I worry about the future, with only a pension and my savings, without an income in Thailand.

[khun custard]

From learning from what happened to a friend of mine earlier this year...

Going from Work to Retirement is not a problem

Coming out of "Retirement" back to Work now presents a few big hurdles to jump thru

Best check it out in person at an Immigration Office (in preference to the Immigration hot line) BUT the rules seem to change too frequently to even guess what the deal will be in a few years

If you are married to a Thai, the best strategy at the moment is to go on (what you are legally entitled to) a Family Non O rather than a Retirement Non O

[hrjay]

Per US social security (unlike living in the US) you are not permitted to work in many overseas locations, including Thailand, unless you are aged 65, 66 or 67, depending on when you were born. You cannot work (have a business) in Thailand AND collect early retirement - but you can work in Thailand and collect full retirement. This is due to the US not having an international social security agreement with Thailand. See: http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf It page 16 of the pamphlet, but best to read the whole thing. Good luck.

Edited September 2, 2015 by hrjay

[gk10002000]

1: I would think that assuming you work outside the USA for 330 consecutive contiguous days or 11 months or whatever it is, you would qualify to have your foreign earned income excluded and therefore at first glance it would not affect your social security at all?

2: I don't think you have the lose 1$ for 2$ correct. I think what happens is just more of the social security is subject to being taxed in whatever bracket that puts you in, but you don't just lose 1 of every 2.

3: One poster said you couldn't do the early retirement and work overseas but you could do the full retirement and work over seas. That is a detail I have not looked into, but it would seem to be related to my (1) where I mention foreign income exclusion. But I am not sure how or if foreign income exclusion works or does not work with SS.

Good questions you had though. Being only 3 years from early social security benefits, I am going to do some reading

[Galong]

1: I would think that assuming you work outside the USA for 330 consecutive contiguous days or 11 months or whatever it is, you would qualify to have your foreign earned income excluded and therefore at first glance it would not affect your social security at all?

2: I don't think you have the lose 1$ for 2$ correct. I think what happens is just more of the social security is subject to being taxed in whatever bracket that puts you in, but you don't just lose 1 of every 2.

3: One poster said you couldn't do the early retirement and work overseas but you could do the full retirement and work over seas. That is a detail I have not looked into, but it would seem to be related to my (1) where I mention foreign income exclusion. But I am not sure how or if foreign income exclusion works or does not work with SS.

This is where I got my info on the 'lose $1 for every $2' over a certain amount of income while working... and it says while working BEFORE full retirement age https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/Article/3739/What-happens-if-I-work-and-get-Social-Security-retirement-benefits

It says "You can get Social Security retirement benefits and work at the same time. However, if you are younger than full retirement age and make more than the yearly earnings limit, we will reduce your benefit. Starting with the month you reach full retirement age, we will not reduce your benefits no matter how much you earn.

• We use the following earnings limits to reduce your benefits: If you are under full retirement age for the entire year, we deduct $1 from your benefit payments for every $2 you earn above the annual limit.

For 2015 that limit is $15,720."

At my required 50K Baht per month I do make over $15,820, but at the current exchange rate, it's not by much. :-) I also wonder if I need to declare my actual 'take home' pay after taxes on by IRS forms or if I have to list it as my gross income?

My accountant is looking into whether I have to actually pay myself 50K per month or if I can just declare 50K per month, pay the taxes on that amount (which is what I assume the Thai government is really after and which I'm happy to pay) and actually pay myself an amount that would add up to less than the limit set by the US SS ($15K-ish)

Thanks for everyone's input.

[Galong]

I have been granted Work Permits at over 60 years of age twice

I will be 65 next month, teaching. With Non O for retirement when not working.

I worry about the future, with only a pension and my savings, without an income in Thailand.

Nice to hear that you've been able to get a WP at over 60... twice.

I'm by no means financial well-off, but I also live a very basic/simple/cheap life, so I don't need much. However, if the US SS goes tits up or the dollar crashes or the baht get super strong (for whatever wild reason), I want to know that a Plan B is available... that being... going back to doing what I do now.