More scrutiny for foreigners applying for gun permits in Bangkok

[Arkady]

It has come to my attention that foreigners applying for Por 3 permits to buy guns in Bangkok from this year are routinely being subjected to greater scrutiny than in the past, due to national security concerns, at the Interior Ministry's licensing centre at Wang Chaiya on Nakhon Sawan Road, near the Royal Bangkok Turf Club. These is no doubt reasonable in the view of recent events. Each foreign applicant now needs to be interviewed in person and officials need to quizz them about their situation in Thailand, job, home and family, as well as assess their knowledge of the Thai language. Ministerial guidelines require officials to take into consideration whether a foreign applicant has Thai family, knowledge of Thai and permanence of stay in Thailand. They will want to know the reason for wanting to own a gun, sporting or home defence or both.

In spite of the greater scrutiny, I think that foreign applicants who have who a steady job with WP (Thais are also required to have an occupation or show assets worth defending) and speak passable Thai are still being issued with Por 3 permits. Permanent residents have the best chance, as the permanence of their stay in Thailand is self-evident and they have already been subjected to extensive vetting. PRs used to be treated the same as Thai applicants in Bangkok but are now subject to this same greater scrutiny. The system for Thais remains the same and Bangkok is the most liberal province in Thailand for gun permits. Even just over the borders in Nonthaburi, Samut Prakarn etc, gun shop owners report difficulties in getting permits for their buyers resident there. Each provincial governor's office is free to set its own regulations, as long as they are at least as strict as the national law and they do impose their own restrictions, e.g. no guns for foreigners or restrictions on the number and types of guns for each individual are common restrictions in the provinces. Unlike the provinces, the licencing for Bangkok is done by the Interior Ministry's Department of Provincial Administration (DOPA), not by the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority. Not being under a provincial governor DOPA just applies the national laws.

Requirements for a Por 3 are:

Copy of passport

Copy of work permit

Copy of tabien baan (issued at least 6 months earlier)

Letter from employer confirming starting date, position and monthly salary

Copy of savings account book or bank statement (showing at least B50k balance)

Copy of alien book (for PRs)

Copy of residence book (for PRs)

Finger print set

I am not sure if they are currently issuing Por 3s for foreigners who want buy guns in .357, .40, .44 or .45 calibre but these require a membership card of a shooting range and an original copy of a certificate of weapons training from a shooting range. The same applies to full bore rifles in .223, .308, .338, .300 or similar calibres. Sometimes the latter have been banned completely nationwide temporarily but currently permits are available for Bangkok residents but not to provincial residents (and probably not to foreigners), although ironically the only ranges where they can be fired are in the provinces. Permits are also available to Bangkok residents and residents of some other provinces for centre fire rifles that use pistol ammunition, i.e. lever action rifles in .357 magnum and .44 magnum. Shotguns up to 12 guage count the same as .38, 9mm or smaller firearms and don't require the certificate of weapons training. Tactical pump and semi-auto shotguns are permitted and I don't think there is any restriction of magazine capacity. Similarly I don't think there is a restriction on magazine capacity for semi auto hand guns or .22 rifles. I have seen 20 shot double stack .45 magazines and there a .22 rifles in the shape of an M16 or AK47 with 20 or 30 shot magazines. However, I doubt that drum magazines like the 58 shot 9mm Glock magazine are allowed.

Once you have been approved for a Por 3 permit, which is valid for 6 months, you may the gun of your choice according to the specs on your permit, e.g .38 revolver, 9mm semi auto. Then you apply for a Por 4 permit for that particular firearm with the Thai and foreign serial numbers on it. A Por 4 is valid for as long as you have the gun. Por 4s for anything less than .40 calibre are stamped "For protection of life and property" and any larger calibre Por 4 is stamped "For sport". For an additional fee, gun stores will offer to do all the processing for you but foreign applicants will still need to be interviewed at the licensing centre. First time applicants also need to be vetted by their local police station in Bangkok. In rural areas in the provinces you need the approval of your puyai baan.

The Por 4 states you are allowed "to have and use the gun" and, as mentioned above, this use is either protection or sport depending on the calibre. But the law is rather vague on the exact extent of the "use" that is permitted. To clarify things police have issued statements that imply that you are permitted to take a gun registered in your name to a firing range, as long as it is not loaded and cannot be grabbed quickly by you. Most people advise putting the gun in your trunk with gun and ammunition wrapped up separately. If police search your car at a road block, it is recommended that you very politely film them taking out your gun and ammo to make sure they don't decide to load the gun for you. It is also recommended that you take your gun straight home from the range and don't stop off anywhere, specially if that would involve driving home late at night. You need to be able to claim that you took the gun to the range and are on the way home. Have copies of Por 4s and shooting range membership cards with you to support your explanation of why you were travelling with a gun in your car. There are actually circumstance where you are allowed to carry a loaded gun without the near impossible Por 12 carry permit. These are limited to cases where people have to collect or deliver large sums of money (in excess of B200k) usually in the provinces which are thought more dangerous than Bangkok. Courts have acquitted people caught with loaded guns in their cars in these circumstances but I wouldn't advise you to try it.

I know there are lot of people who disagree with private gun ownership and that is certainly a valid point of view. However, I posted this for informational purposes for people who may be interested in legally owning a gun for sporting or home defence purposes and I don't want this thread to degenerate into flames between pro and anti-gun lobbyists. There are other places you can express those opinions.

[RKASA]

" I don't want this thread to degenerate into flames between pro and anti-gun lobbyists" good luck with that.

[cornishcarlos]

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DHTyQ4Q8z-D8&ved=0CBwQtwIwAWoVChMIru3mzKHfxwIVlFKOCh3fsgdj&usg=AFQjCNFOLKDHXoRfexjWW3Pi1m6nRLuUMw

[Arkady]

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DHTyQ4Q8z-D8&ved=0CBwQtwIwAWoVChMIru3mzKHfxwIVlFKOCh3fsgdj&usg=AFQjCNFOLKDHXoRfexjWW3Pi1m6nRLuUMw

This one is very funny, even if it doesn't directly address the topic of gun permits in Thailand.

[Mothman]

Hi Arkady,

I wonder if there's any links to register guns for a Thai national?

Wife's got quite a few, all gifts from my father in - law. I was gifted one but only accept it out of respect not because I need one.

Never thought of the licence bit but what I am pretty sure of are, the guns not registered.

Asked the wife after reading your post and she replied, " I don't know...no need to, I have it for many years leaow, no problem. "

I googled licences for guns in Thailand, but it's all in Thai.

Any help or suggestions? Thanks.

Cheers

PS How do I add photos here?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Mothman

[SOTIRIOS]

...there is always the 'Thai alternative'....

..did someone write....'50 million unregistered handguns in Thailand' ???

...I am quite sure that it was in the 'tens of millions'....correct me if I am wrong....

[Mothman]

...there is always the 'Thai alternative'....

..did someone write....'50 million unregistered handguns in Thailand' ???

...I am quite sure that it was in the 'tens of millions'....correct me if I am wrong....

I agree!

I mean just the wife alone has a small collection. I wonder how many more each member of her family with several in the police and army has in total.

Based on multiplying 4 (that's hers) to the population = 240 Million. Divided it by perhaps 1 in every 8 persons have 4 = 30 Million. Scary!

Strange thing was, it's normal to them and I have never heard licence's being mentioned along.

Though I have seen them trading admiration for a new one. But I'm all made up to have them registered.

Cheers

Edited September 5, 2015 by Mothman

[dotpoom]

Hi Arkady,

I wonder if there's any links to register guns for a Thai national?

Wife's got quite a few, all gifts from my father in - law. I was gifted one but only accept it out of respect not because I need one.

Never thought of the licence bit but what I am pretty sure of are, the guns not registered.

Asked the wife after reading your post and she replied, " I don't know...no need to, I have it for many years leaow, no problem. "

I googled licences for guns in Thailand, but it's all in Thai.

Any help or suggestions? Thanks.

Cheers

PS How do I add photos here?

First off about adding a pic, see underneath, choose file and then attach this file.

About the gun. My wife's friend recently purchased a handgun. Bought it from a policeman for 17.000 Baht. Then had to go to the local Navy barracks (I live in Bang Saray, it's a Naval area) and sign up for a number of shooting lessons and apply to have the gun registered. She needs to get a certificate showing a minimum of hours tuition for her application to be successful.

Hope this assists you.

[Mothman]

Thanks, dotpoom.

Here's one photo. Btw, she'll call her police uncle to ask about registering it.

Cheers

[csabo]

This article may or may not interest you.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/guns-thailand-surrendered-legal-illegal-orders-coup-command-20387/

[Mothman]

This article may or may not interest you.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/guns-thailand-surrendered-legal-illegal-orders-coup-command-20387/

Just finished reading the article, thanks.

Damn...it's serious! Shared it with the Mrs, and her dad who's here and all I got was laughter.

Well, I'm still going ahead with getting her to register the guns. Not taking any chances.

Cheers

[PattayaPhom]

I went to the range a few weeks ago for the first time in few months and they seem to be more laxed, never befor been allowed to take live ordnance home befor but now no problem.

[amerasianex]

Well if you get a legal gun with paper you can still be arrested for it even in your home. My wife has one and the police arrested me because she was not home at the time. And the 9mm had a 30rd mag. Also illegal they charged me with both....So Ill never bother with gettin a legal one again. And another thing Criminals wont bother with any paperwork when you can get a illegal one on every street corner for 1/2 the price... I do everything legal and im 51yo with no criminal record and now I do have one for a legal gun in my legal house with my legal wife and my two legal children,,,Such Bullshit...All because police would not do their jobs in the first place when we were victimized in a home invasion robbery

[PattayaPhom]

This article may or may not interest you.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/guns-thailand-surrendered-legal-illegal-orders-coup-command-20387/

Never happened,

[gerry123]

Well if you get a legal gun with paper you can still be arrested for it even in your home. My wife has one and the police arrested me because she was not home at the time. And the 9mm had a 30rd mag. Also illegal they charged me with both....So Ill never bother with gettin a legal one again. And another thing Criminals wont bother with any paperwork when you can get a illegal one on every street corner for 1/2 the price... I do everything legal and im 51yo with no criminal record and now I do have one for a legal gun in my legal house with my legal wife and my two legal children,,,Such Bullshit...All because police would not do their jobs in the first place when we were victimized in a home invasion robbery

[Mothman]

Well if you get a legal gun with paper you can still be arrested for it even in your home. My wife has one and the police arrested me because she was not home at the time. And the 9mm had a 30rd mag. Also illegal they charged me with both....So Ill never bother with gettin a legal one again.

First of all, why were you visited by the police? Is there a warrant issued to search your house?

I'm asking this since I have my father in - law here at my place, and he happens to have a senior police officer brother and out of my personal curiosity.

We have been discussing these issues pertaining to gun control since I first came across this thread today.

My concerns were brushed aside as unnecessary but if it makes me sleep better, an uncle my wife called earlier said he'll handle that (without my wife having to go for lessons) in a jiffy.

We moved on to topics such as the article on surrendering guns under the Junta order. My father in - law simply said, there were so many laws being implemented but not all were necessary to be changed. Application of the law or the law itself can be amended accordingly. ???

But this was an issued order?! I said, "it was in the papers" ref. csabo post.

The whole house erupted into laughter again to which he said, " you believe everything you read in the newspaper or internet?."

To be honest, no, I don't believe everything I read but his question did make me feel foolish.

Then we got to your post and he said, it can never happened. The police needs a warrant issued by a judge to search your property unless it's an emergency or a matter of life and death. So it never happens...

Contradicting himself he added, "but the police can do that even without a warrant if they want to, it depends...all farang cannot understand Thai law." And with a broad smile he said, " you, worry to much"!

Sadly after 9 years, indeed I can't and I still do have some worries.

Cheers

Edited September 5, 2015 by Mothman

[Time Traveller]

"Each foreign applicant now needs to be interviewed in person and officials need to quizz them about their situation in Thailand, job, home and family, as well as assess their knowledge of the Thai language. Ministerial guidelines require officials to take into consideration whether a foreign applicant has Thai family, knowledge of Thai and permanence of stay in Thailand."-----

Employer and salary information?

Bank account balance?

Good grief the Thais are a laughing stock. Whatever happened to criminal background checks and mental competence reports like in the developed world?

Nope not important, the cops just want to know how much you earn and how much money you have and whether you have that some Thai family memebr that could make it difficult for them to shake you down for money on some made up criminal violation.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Time Traveller

[PattayaPhom]

"Each foreign applicant now needs to be interviewed in person and officials need to quizz them about their situation in Thailand, job, home and family, as well as assess their knowledge of the Thai language. Ministerial guidelines require officials to take into consideration whether a foreign applicant has Thai family, knowledge of Thai and permanence of stay in Thailand."-----

Employer and salary information?

Bank account balance?

Good grief the Thais are a laughing stock. Whatever happened to criminal background checks and mental competence reports like in the developed world?

Nope not important, the cops just want to know how much you earn and how much money you have and whether you have that some Thai family memebr that could make it difficult for them to shake you down for money on some made up criminal violation.

I agree no criminal checks but the reasoning behind issuing a permit, you require a weapon to protect your assets. I too had to take bank books, Chanotes, jewelry, car/bike books befor they issued.

[Arkady]

Hi Arkady,

I wonder if there's any links to register guns for a Thai national?

Wife's got quite a few, all gifts from my father in - law. I was gifted one but only accept it out of respect not because I need one.

Never thought of the licence bit but what I am pretty sure of are, the guns not registered.

Asked the wife after reading your post and she replied, " I don't know...no need to, I have it for many years leaow, no problem. "

I googled licences for guns in Thailand, but it's all in Thai.

Any help or suggestions? Thanks.

Cheers

PS How do I add photos here?

Gun registration for Thai nationals is the same, except, of course, they don't have to submit work permit, alien book, residence book or passport. They do need to show evidence of an occupation though, since that is a requirement of the 1947 Firearms Act. They may also not need to be interviewed each time, unless it is first time application. As mentioned I can only know in detail about the Bangkok procedures and things can be quite different in the provinces.

Unfortunately there is no legal way you can get guns registered after you have already acquired them, with the only exception being acquisition through inheritance. You need a Por 3 permit to acquire a gun of a certain calibre and type first. When you have this and have a acquired the weapon, you register the specific gun and obtain a Por 4 permit for it. I don't recognise the type of gun in the picture you posted and there are no brand markings visible. From the ammo it looks like a .380 (9mm short) but I would hazard a guess it might be an illegal Chinese import or a home made gun. Obviously there is no way to obtain permits that have been illegally imported or manufactured.

Sections 7and 8 of the Firearms Act would apply to your situation:

"Section 7 It is prohibited for anyone from making, buying, owning, using, ordering or importing of firearms or ammunition, except for those granted a license from the local registrar.

Section 8 It is prohibited for anyone to possess ammunition that does not have a license to possess and use firearms."

The penalty for possession of a gun without permission is a mandatory prison sentence of 1 to 10 years and a fine of up to B20k. The penalty for possession of ammunition or gun parts is the same but the prison sentence is not mandatory in that case.

" Section 72. Anyone who violates Section 7 is punishable by imprisonment from one year to 10 years and fine from 2,000 baht to 20,000 baht.

If the violation according to the first paragraph is just a component of the firearm as specified in the ministerial regulations, or in case of possession of ammunition the violator is punishable by imprisonment not exceeding 10 years or fine not exceeding 20,000 baht or both."

Thus for possession of one unlicensed firearm and ammunition you or your wife could be liable to a minimum sentence of 1 year in prison but up to a maximum of 20 years for both offences and a fine of up to B40k. For multiple unlicensed firearms the penalties could be multiplied. In addition, in the case of illegally imported or manufactured weapons, it is possible that further penalties might apply.

From a legal standpoint the safest thing to do would to take these weapons and ammunition and dump them somewhere they will never be found and get your wife to apply for a Por 3 permit to purchase a legal gun, if you feel you need one in the house or want one to use at a range.

[Arkady]

This article may or may not interest you.

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/guns-thailand-surrendered-legal-illegal-orders-coup-command-20387/

Is there any verification for this apart from Phuketwan? I haven't seen any.

I was recently at the Interior Ministry's gun licensing unit in Bangkok and saw a lot of people applying for Por 3 and Por 4 permits.

[Arkady]

Well if you get a legal gun with paper you can still be arrested for it even in your home. My wife has one and the police arrested me because she was not home at the time. And the 9mm had a 30rd mag. Also illegal they charged me with both....So Ill never bother with gettin a legal one again. And another thing Criminals wont bother with any paperwork when you can get a illegal one on every street corner for 1/2 the price... I do everything legal and im 51yo with no criminal record and now I do have one for a legal gun in my legal house with my legal wife and my two legal children,,,Such Bullshit...All because police would not do their jobs in the first place when we were victimized in a home invasion robbery

This seems very strange. If your wife had a Por 4 permit for the gun and stored it at her legal address, you could not be convicted of possession, just because you were at her residence while she was out. I am not sure about high capacity magazines, as I have never had any interest in owning one, but as mentioned above I would suspect that some are indeed illegal. I have seen 20 round double stack .45 mags for sale in Thai gun shops but these only stick out of the butt a little way, as the normal size mag holds 14. A 30 round double magazine would stick out of the butt of a 9mm pistol quite a long way, as most hold 14-15, and is quite possibly illegal. That might have been the problem but It was strange if they prosecuted you for it and not your wife who was presumably the owner, since she owned the gun. I believe the penalty for having an illegal part for a licensed gun would be a non-mandatory prison sentence and a fine.

Perhaps they made a case that your wife bought for the gun for you to have and use. In that case, you could be liable to a mandatory prison sentence of 6 months to 5 years.

"If the violation according to the first paragraph is just possession of a firearm of another person that is licensed to possess and use legally, the violator is punishable by imprisonment from six months to five years and fine from 1,000 baht to 10,000 baht."

However, the police have no authority to impose penalties in firearms cases. They must pass the evidence to a prosecutor to pursue the case in court. You didn't mention anything about a court case or what you were specifically charged with. So it is impossible to comment further.

At any rate I don't recommend having any dodgy modifications for legal guns, such as high capacity magazines or devices or modifications to make semi autos fire on full auto.

[Arkady]

"Each foreign applicant now needs to be interviewed in person and officials need to quizz them about their situation in Thailand, job, home and family, as well as assess their knowledge of the Thai language. Ministerial guidelines require officials to take into consideration whether a foreign applicant has Thai family, knowledge of Thai and permanence of stay in Thailand."-----

Employer and salary information?

Bank account balance?

Good grief the Thais are a laughing stock. Whatever happened to criminal background checks and mental competence reports like in the developed world?

Nope not important, the cops just want to know how much you earn and how much money you have and whether you have that some Thai family memebr that could make it difficult for them to shake you down for money on some made up criminal violation.

I agree no criminal checks but the reasoning behind issuing a permit, you require a weapon to protect your assets. I too had to take bank books, Chanotes, jewelry, car/bike books befor they issued.

Actually they do carry out criminal record checks and they check your finger prints against the police database. I omitted to mention that because they do it themselves and I just listed the documents you have to submit yourself. The law also prohibits issue of permits to people who are deemed physically or mentally incompetent but they don't require any documentary evidence of this. Perhaps it is just an observation of the interviewing officer but clearly this is not done on a methodical basis. The only health check I am aware of it is a medical certificate for someone over 70 applying for a Por 12 carry permit.

It is not the police that do gun licensing and registration any more. The first Thaksin government tried (unsuccessfully) to tighten up gun control and moved the responsibility from the police to the Interior Ministry. The police resisted the measures to tighten things up and the corruption at the police licensing centre was very open and in your face, e.g. even asked for a special tip to do the finger printing and made it clear you had no hope of getting a permit without tea money. The police actively support the concept of citizen gun ownership, even they are often fired on by criminals, as they like the idea of devolving the responsibility of home defense to householders themselves. They often recommend the purchase of a gun after a robbery.

My understanding about the Thai family members for foreign applicants is that they feel that provides evidence of permanence of stay in Thailand and having any family living with you gives you more people to protect. They usually want to know how many people live in your house. Nevertheless, plenty of permits have been issued to single foreigners, including myself before I was married.

[Arkady]

I went to the range a few weeks ago for the first time in few months and they seem to be more laxed, never befor been allowed to take live ordnance home befor but now no problem.

Most ranges don't seem very strict about this. One government range I shoot at specifically says in its rule book that the ammo sold by the range is intended for use on the range only but that, in the event of being unable to finish a box, it is OK to take it home for use the next time. It is not like Switzerland or the UK where every round has to be accounted for and unused ammo returned before leaving the range. Some ranges have rules prohibiting you from bringing your own ammo but this seems rarely enforced for members. In fact they seem quite happy for members to bring their own ammo for calibres or types they don't have available. There has been a shortage of .22 ammo at many ranges for some time and the only way for members to shot .22s at those places has been to bring their own which seems readily available in the Bangkok gun shops, even though most have only CCI standard velocity.

[dragonballs]

legal way : lots of red tape

thai way : just a bunch of cash & knowing the right "seedy" people

[Mothman]

Thanks, Arkady!

It's a very detailed reply from you. To be honest, I wasn't really concerned about the guns being around until I came across your post.

Discussing the merits and consequences of having it registered and not with the family, drives me nuts!

But I'm taking your advice of dumping the guns, and will only get approved guns. Told the Mrs. its either going to be registered or we are having none at all, in the house!

Any knowledge of these other guns? Just for my personal knowledge.

Thank you for your time and rendered assistances.

Cheers

[Arkady]

Thanks, Arkady!

It's a very detailed reply from you. To be honest, I wasn't really concerned about the guns being around until I came across your post.

Discussing the merits and consequences of having it registered and not with the family, drives me nuts!

But I'm taking your advice of dumping the guns, and will only get approved guns. Told the Mrs. its either going to be registered or we are having none at all, in the house!

Any knowledge of these other guns? Just for my personal knowledge.

Thank you for your time and rendered assistances.

Cheers

Can't see much detail but the two on the right look like Smith & Wesson .38 special or .357 magnum revolvers, which can also shoot .38 special ammunition. The revolver on the left could be a Taurus or Ruger .38 or .357. The one in holster looks like a 9mm semi auto pistol of some description. The ammunition looks like cheap, low velocity wadcutter .38 special ammo with a completely flat top which is locally manufactured for practicing. Not very suitable for home defence but better than nothing.

The revolvers could be genuine items smuggled in from Cambodia, legal guns stolen in robberies or copies made in illegal workshops in Thailand or smuggled in from the Philippines where they have a big industry manufacturing fake brand name guns. A lot of guns legally bought at a discount by police and local defense volunteers under the civil service welfare programme are illegally sold for a profit and reported lost or stolen, so the owner can just buy another at a discount. You don't know the origin of any weapon acquired on the black market. It might have been reported stolen or used in a murder for all you know, which could multiply the penalties if you are caught with it.

Your wife's family and many other Thai families may think that having black market guns in their possession is perfectly OK. It saves money and a lot of trouble involved in acquiring guns legally. For me they would be useless, as I like to shoot my guns on the range and it would be insane to go out with a black market gun in your vehicle, even if your local range doesn't bother to check permits, which most don't. Also, even you ever had to use a black market gun for home defence, you would looking at a mandatory jail sentence for possession of a gun and ammmo without possession. Using the gun in self defence might be regarded by the court as a good reason which good avoid homicide conviction or wounding conviction but that wouldn't let you off the hook for illegally owning a gun and ammo. The illegal gun would also weaken your defence in that case because owning an illegal weapon implies intent to commit a crime with it. I have heard of Thais saying that they will claim they took the illegal gun out of the hand of an intruder and shot him with it but I expect that is quite hard to prove, particularly if you have a collection of illegal weapons and ammo in your house. The chances of getting caught may be remote in your case, but consequences for you would be disastrous, if it ever did happen. The very least of the consequences would probably be your deportation and black listing. The wife and her family might have an easier time wriggling off the hook than a farang would.

For those who get guns in the names of Thai wives, I should point out that the legal owner of a gun who wishes to allow someone else to use is obliged to get permission for that too in the name of the specific person under the Firearms Act. I have never heard of anyone doing this and I don't suppose anyone ever does but it does render you liable for a mandatory 6 months prison sentence, or up to 5 years, if you use the gun without this supplementary permission. So you must always have your wife with you, if you take the gun to the range. If you have to use the gun in home defence, that could be argued as a 'good reason' for using the gun without permission. However, you would have to make sure your wife appears to be the genuine owner who bought the gun for herself to use but just couldn't get to it in time on that occasion. So you were obliged to do the job for her.

[Basil B]

Hi Arkady,

I wonder if there's any links to register guns for a Thai national?

Wife's got quite a few, all gifts from my father in - law. I was gifted one but only accept it out of respect not because I need one.

Never thought of the licence bit but what I am pretty sure of are, the guns not registered.

Asked the wife after reading your post and she replied, " I don't know...no need to, I have it for many years leaow, no problem. "

I googled licences for guns in Thailand, but it's all in Thai.

Any help or suggestions? Thanks.

Cheers

PS How do I add photos here?

Gun registration for Thai nationals is the same, except, of course, they don't have to submit work permit, alien book, residence book or passport. They do need to show evidence of an occupation though, since that is a requirement of the 1947 Firearms Act. They may also not need to be interviewed each time, unless it is first time application. As mentioned I can only know in detail about the Bangkok procedures and things can be quite different in the provinces.

Unfortunately there is no legal way you can get guns registered after you have already acquired them, with the only exception being acquisition through inheritance. You need a Por 3 permit to acquire a gun of a certain calibre and type first. When you have this and have a acquired the weapon, you register the specific gun and obtain a Por 4 permit for it. I don't recognise the type of gun in the picture you posted and there are no brand markings visible. From the ammo it looks like a .380 (9mm short) but I would hazard a guess it might be an illegal Chinese import or a home made gun. Obviously there is no way to obtain permits that have been illegally imported or manufactured.

Sections 7and 8 of the Firearms Act would apply to your situation:

"Section 7 It is prohibited for anyone from making, buying, owning, using, ordering or importing of firearms or ammunition, except for those granted a license from the local registrar.

Section 8 It is prohibited for anyone to possess ammunition that does not have a license to possess and use firearms."

The penalty for possession of a gun without permission is a mandatory prison sentence of 1 to 10 years and a fine of up to B20k. The penalty for possession of ammunition or gun parts is the same but the prison sentence is not mandatory in that case.

" Section 72. Anyone who violates Section 7 is punishable by imprisonment from one year to 10 years and fine from 2,000 baht to 20,000 baht.

If the violation according to the first paragraph is just a component of the firearm as specified in the ministerial regulations, or in case of possession of ammunition the violator is punishable by imprisonment not exceeding 10 years or fine not exceeding 20,000 baht or both."

Thus for possession of one unlicensed firearm and ammunition you or your wife could be liable to a minimum sentence of 1 year in prison but up to a maximum of 20 years for both offences and a fine of up to B40k. For multiple unlicensed firearms the penalties could be multiplied. In addition, in the case of illegally imported or manufactured weapons, it is possible that further penalties might apply.

From a legal standpoint the safest thing to do would to take these weapons and ammunition and dump them somewhere they will never be found and get your wife to apply for a Por 3 permit to purchase a legal gun, if you feel you need one in the house or want one to use at a range.

IMHO Thailand needs better gun control and with so many unregistered guns I see the only way forward as being "Carrot & Stick"

Carrot, Gun amnesty, hand gun in and apply for a licence and then get gun back, to do this they would have to lax the the gun ownership laws, they can always be tightened up at a later date...

Stick, harsh penalties for having unlicensed gun, which should be jail time or at leasts 6 months suspended for first offence.

Also prohibit importing (and manufacturing of guns), new guns can only be manufactured/imported to replace guns that have been destroyed/exported. (including the new ones the police wish to requisition).

Edited September 6, 2015 by Basil B

[Arkady]

IMHO Thailand needs better gun control and with so many unregistered guns I see the only way forward as being "Carrot & Stick"

Carrot, Gun amnesty, hand gun in and apply for a licence and then get gun back, to do this they would have to lax the the gun ownership laws, they can always be tightened up at a later date...

Stick, harsh penalties for having unlicensed gun, which should be jail time or at leasts 6 months suspended for first offence.

Also prohibit importing (and manufacturing of guns), new guns can only be manufactured/imported to replace guns that have been destroyed/exported. (including the new ones the police wish to requisition).

Can't say I disagree with you but there is already a mandatory prison sentence for possession of an illegal gun, although this often suspended for first time offenders. Enforcement and establishing fear of being caught are necessary. An amnesty to hand in illegal guns makes sense but not legalising them. How about the fakes and the homemade guns in that case? Many are dangerous and liable to blow up in the user's face, particularly the single shot break action 12 guage hand guns beloved of technical school students.

They won't suspend new imports because this is a huge money spinner. The Interior Ministry's welfare programme imports far more guns than the gun stores are able to with their fixed quotas - 3-5 times as many in most years I believe. They are sold at a discount to the gun store prices but still handguns go for about 3 times the US MRSP, even though import duty is only a modest 30% plus VAT of 7%. Handguns are sold in gun stores at 5x+ the US MRSP which is higher than the store price in the US anyway. With all the stages of licensing: import licenses, gun store licenses, permits for individuals etc the mark-ups and the tea money are huge. One thing you can say though is that the high prices at gun stores keep legal guns out of the hands of criminals. It is clear to me that what is needed is a draconian crackdown on illegal guns which are used for the vast majority of crimes. However, there always seems to be a connection between a legal gun culture and a high level of gun violence.

[farangmick]

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DHTyQ4Q8z-D8&ved=0CBwQtwIwAWoVChMIru3mzKHfxwIVlFKOCh3fsgdj&usg=AFQjCNFOLKDHXoRfexjWW3Pi1m6nRLuUMw

This one is very funny, even if it doesn't directly address the topic of gun permits in Thailand.

Until I read that the 2nd amendment said bare and carry arms, I thought it was an 18th century typo by a clerk, and that it was supposed to mean the right to take your coat off and roll your sleeves up in a humid Washington summer.

[Arkady]

I recently had occasion to visit the Wang Chaiya Bangkok licensing centre in person over a personal application. I got the impression that what is actually happening at the moment is that existing regulations are being properly enforced for foreign applicants or Thai applicants of foreign origin for 'security reasons'. Gun stores often take care of the paperwork for their customers for a small fee and can organise a waiver from the standard interview procedure, since it is a nuisance for most people to go to that part of town on a week day. I think the new head of the section has simply said no waivers for foreigners or Thais that he chooses to regard as foreigners, which apparently includes myself. That just means you have to take the time to go to Wang Chaiya and have an interview to verify your personal details, job, family, address, how long in Thailand, what range do you shoot at etc etc. Takes about 15 minutes and they take a photograph of you with the interviewing officer to verify you showed up in person. I saw pictures of several beaming farangs obviously looking forward to owning their own firearms.

The good news, as far as I am concerned, and the reason for my visit to Wang Chaiya was that I recently made the discovery that permits are currently available for full bore rifles in calibers such as .223 Rem, .308 Win, .338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag. Previously I had been of the impression that rifles were only available to private citizens in .22 caliber and I think this might have, in fact, been the case some years ago when I first took an interest in such things. The sale of full bore rifles was recently banned for a few months in 2009 and I think has been banned in the past too but is currently legal. In 2009 the government issued an order that all private owners of full bore rifles should take them to district offices for storage but rifle owners filed a case in the Administrative Court against the order on the grounds that district offices had no safe places to store the rifles. The court agreed with the gun owners and overturned the administrative order. I am told that provincial licensing centers are less liberal than Bangkok and usually reject applications for rifles in calibers bigger than .22. However, farangs residing in Bangkok with the right qualifications, or their Thai wives may buy full bore rifles, and shoot them at military ranges like the Navy Seal Special Warfare range at Sattahip which has ranges from 100 to 1,000 metres and accepts foreign members - no guns for rental though. A no frills full bore rifle but still one that does an effective job at long range, such as a Remington 700 SPS .233 Rem or .308 Win goes for about B80,000, including tax and the quota mark-up, in Bangkok gunstores. .223 or .308 are probably the most practical calibers to go for as ammo is likely to be more readily available and cheaper than .338 and .300, which may still be hard to find and much more expensive than in the US or Europe. .233 is generally regarded as effective out to around 500 metres and .308 out to 800. .338 and .300 come into their own beyond 800 metres.