UK academic Wyn Ellis released from Thai detention

cloudhopper · September 8, 2015

Good.

Now I want Supachai to face justice otherwise he's just another elite that is above the law and I'll take the general's 'crack down' on corruption even less seriously more so than now.

AFAIK he was already convicted of forgery. Like all of his elite ilk however the sentence was suspended and he will never see a day in prison. Unlike Dr. Ellis.

zaZa9 · September 8, 2015

This story resonates and has legs because everyone, retiree, employee, business owner, knows that 'there but for the grace of God go I'....everyone is only one vindictive or litigious complianant away from being in similar circumstances..

Most foreigners in Thailand want certainty: assurances that there is safety, tenure, freedom from harassment. Sadly, from the perspective of the individuals ( as well as for Thailand itself), there is a vulnerability , not only from vindictive whack-jobs but also government policy which can change at any whim or fancy.

This is a really bad news story for Dr Wym but also for Thailand

Bad news for Thailand? He was removed from immigration blacklist he was put on in 2009. Imo this is good news for Thailand and the current government.
99.99% of all foreigners visiting Thailand have no reason to feel uncertain here. Especially when they don't get involved in local affairs.

...he has been jailed for some days before he has been released...

That doesn't make me feel particularly safe. But oh well, if that's your feeling.

I can't judge your personal situation but I feel very safe when going through immigration. I know for sure they have no reason to block my entry into Thailand.

Obviuosly so far you havent had something stolen from you , or if you have you havent complained about the wrong ( influential ) people doing it

I hope your day doesnt come ,,,,

Nickymaster · September 8, 2015

This story resonates and has legs because everyone, retiree, employee, business owner, knows that 'there but for the grace of God go I'....everyone is only one vindictive or litigious complianant away from being in similar circumstances..

Most foreigners in Thailand want certainty: assurances that there is safety, tenure, freedom from harassment. Sadly, from the perspective of the individuals ( as well as for Thailand itself), there is a vulnerability , not only from vindictive whack-jobs but also government policy which can change at any whim or fancy.

This is a really bad news story for Dr Wym but also for Thailand

Bad news for Thailand? He was removed from immigration blacklist he was put on in 2009. Imo this is good news for Thailand and the current government.
99.99% of all foreigners visiting Thailand have no reason to feel uncertain here. Especially when they don't get involved in local affairs.

...he has been jailed for some days before he has been released...

That doesn't make me feel particularly safe. But oh well, if that's your feeling.

I can't judge your personal situation but I feel very safe when going through immigration. I know for sure they have no reason to block my entry into Thailand.

Obviuosly so far you havent had something stolen from you , or if you have you havent complained about the wrong ( influential ) people doing it

I hope your day doesnt come ,,,,

So far so good. Been here for over 30 years without major issues. Fingers crossed! But I have to admit that I do behave myself and that I realize that things are done differently here compared to my country of birth. Edited September 8, 2015 by Nickymaster

kannot · September 8, 2015

Finally. Go home, mate. You are not safe here.

NO, thats exactly what the other bloke wants

riverhigh · September 8, 2015

The sad thing we learn from this is that, even if a foreigner cares enough about Thailand to go through the hoops and become a citizen, he/she will still be treated as "second class" and doesn't seem to have any more rights than a tourist. Can someone please explain how a person who is a citizen of a country and holds a passport be "blacklisted" without some sort of court process and revocation of the passport? Only in Thailand !!!

Agree. Agree. There is no valid answer to your question. As pointed out in a previous post this has implications for any foreigner living in Thailand and that inludes retirees who believe they are 100% safe by living under the radar. It only takes one misunderstanding and ......

kannot · September 8, 2015

Id like to see the " full apology" from immigration on this? was there one?

brewsterbudgen · September 8, 2015

Good.

Now I want Supachai to face justice otherwise he's just another elite that is above the law and I'll take the general's 'crack down' on corruption even less seriously more so than now.

AFAIK he was already convicted of forgery. Like all of his elite ilk however the sentence was suspended and he will never see a day in prison. Unlike Dr. Ellis.

Yes, the plagiarism story was done & dusted along time ago. The Immigration blacklisting is what triggered Mr Ellis' unfortunate detention and this appears to now be resolved. Ridiculous that he had to be detained for days before they got their act together.

johng · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

maddermax · September 8, 2015

As an expat that does not need to be near his family when he retires and can settle anywhere there are a number of factors to consider about the place you intend to end up in:

1. Climate.

2. Standard of living.

3. Quality of life.

4. Tax regime.

5. Security.

6. Quality, availability and cost of medical facilities.

7. Banking facilities.

If you do an analysis of Europe, Spain is the place to be. For the far east, Thailand is the place to be. However, one thing that lets Thailand down is the 'security' factor. You can't call a policeman if you get into trouble and decisions will often be in favour of a Thai versus the farang. Dr Wyn Ellis' experiences are further evidence of this. As others have stated, this will only harm Thailand where shooting oneself in the foot seems to be a national pastime.

brewsterbudgen · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

This will disappoint some people here!

Rykbanlor · September 8, 2015

And the cheat was originally allowed to graduate on a plagiarised paper, which really helps boost the country, and Chulalongkorn's image. No wonder Thai universities struglle to reach world rankings.

Anyone who has been involved in teaching here will confirm plagiarism is rampant and accepted. There are many, many people with degrees, holding office, including in schools and unis, that never achieved the ' qualifications ' they claim.

I once worked at a rural uni and a colleague had an assignment handed in that was copied word for word from a reference book but when he took the student to task the answer was to the effect " at least i handed something in ".

Yup, I spent 10 years teaching elementary full time and adults part time, and often times teachers at my elementary school would approach me to help their sons/daughters with their Uni assignments. And when I say help, I mean do.

I told them politely what I thought of that, and became very unpopular in the eyes of those that sought my help, to which I didn't give a rat's ass.

Thankfully I no longer teach.

riverhigh · September 8, 2015

Id like to see the " full apology" from immigration on this? was there one?

In my opinion, an apology would be meaningless. Even in the unlikely that an apology was forthcoming I wouldn't give it any credence. What is required is an overhaul review and change of the entire Thai judicial system. Integrity is sadly missing.

LannaGuy · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

To be fair he needs to be 'kinder' than before as he's now been allowed to stay and get off the blacklist. That does not excuse the terrible experience and the disgraceful way his name ended up on the blacklist on the basis of a 'letter' sent by someone who was caught cheating! Amazing Thailand

Edited September 8, 2015 by LannaGuy

lildragon · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

This somewhat conflicts with some of his twitter posts no?

Either way Supachai needs pulling up on even being able to get Mr Ellis on this list and the intimidation he suffered during the trials. That is the crux of the story here.

Jon Wetherall · September 8, 2015

Good.

Now I want Supachai to face justice otherwise he's just another elite that is above the law and I'll take the general's 'crack down' on corruption even less seriously more so than now.

You;re right to do that. Excess os cynicism is rarely wasted in Thailand, and it's because the Thais focus much ore on appearances than substance. The government in particular, but very widely in general make announcements in order to benefit from the 9-day principle, which is expressed in Thailand as

'get the credits for the new initiative now, even though we all know we have no intention whatever of following it through, or sometimes, in trying to do so, we manage to completely balls it up. By the time the peasants realise we haven't actually done anything useful, they will have forgotten all about it anyway or will be paying attention to the next empty promise.'

Generally, Thais have a very short span of attention and don't learn from experience. As a result, this 'conman's strategy' works every time..

This is the mechanism whereby people like Supachai manage to retain their qualifications/employment/reputation every time. If a well-connected Thai breaks the rules and commits a crime, sin-bin for about 20 minutes then it's all back to normal. That's why 'inactive posts' (the equivalent of the Japanese 'window-seat' are so widely used in LOS:

"I could have fired you Somchai but I didn't and now you can be back to extorting people in a couple of weeks. But now you ow me."

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

Rykbanlor · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

This will disappoint some people here!

Perhaps, I hadn't actually taken notice of the guys stay at swampy. The real blackeye(s) in my opinion are the fact that Chulalongkorn allowed the cheat to graduate on a plagiarised thesis, and that the NIA official originally managed to have Mr. Ellis blacklisted at all, let alone using a citation of Mr Ellis being a threat to national security. These things can't unhappen, and even worse I find it highly unlikely that the cheating NIA official will face any significant consequences for his actions.

Bakseeda · September 8, 2015

Supachai Lorlowhakarn

This name should be kept in the press

until his face is so lost that it doesn't exist.

Talk about a cheat and a poor loser.

Sorry CelticBhoy, for a moment I thought you were talking about Craig Whyte.. Haha.......

newcomer71 · September 8, 2015

This story resonates and has legs because everyone, retiree, employee, business owner, knows that 'there but for the grace of God go I'....everyone is only one vindictive or litigious complianant away from being in similar circumstances..

Most foreigners in Thailand want certainty: assurances that there is safety, tenure, freedom from harassment. Sadly, from the perspective of the individuals ( as well as for Thailand itself), there is a vulnerability , not only from vindictive whack-jobs but also government policy which can change at any whim or fancy.

This is a really bad news story for Dr Wym but also for Thailand

Bad news for Thailand? He was removed from immigration blacklist he was put on in 2009. Imo this is good news for Thailand and the current government.
99.99% of all foreigners visiting Thailand have no reason to feel uncertain here. Especially when they don't get involved in local affairs.

...he has been jailed for some days before he has been released...

That doesn't make me feel particularly safe. But oh well, if that's your feeling.

I can't judge your personal situation but I feel very safe when going through immigration. I know for sure they have no reason to block my entry into Thailand.

From what we know even Khun Ellis did not have anything to worry about his entry but...

I feel myself safe when going through immigration, but I personally know someone hit some influential people nerve (not on purpose) and paid consequences, so yeah, I always behave but not always consequences depends on our actions here...

Said that, peace We keep on our ideas.

MZurf · September 8, 2015

This story resonates and has legs because everyone, retiree, employee, business owner, knows that 'there but for the grace of God go I'....everyone is only one vindictive or litigious complianant away from being in similar circumstances..

Most foreigners in Thailand want certainty: assurances that there is safety, tenure, freedom from harassment. Sadly, from the perspective of the individuals ( as well as for Thailand itself), there is a vulnerability , not only from vindictive whack-jobs but also government policy which can change at any whim or fancy.

This is a really bad news story for Dr Wym but also for Thailand

Bad news for Thailand? He was removed from immigration blacklist he was put on in 2009. Imo this is good news for Thailand and the current government.
99.99% of all foreigners visiting Thailand have no reason to feel uncertain here. Especially when they don't get involved in local affairs.

...he has been jailed for some days before he has been released...

That doesn't make me feel particularly safe. But oh well, if that's your feeling.

I can't judge your personal situation but I feel very safe when going through immigration. I know for sure they have no reason to block my entry into Thailand.

The scary part is that they don't need a reason to block you.

Jonathan Fairfield · September 8, 2015

Statement from Wyn Ellis

Amazed by the global attention I seem to have attracted over the last few days. Due to the huge number of inquires and expressions of concern from media representatives and all our lovely friends (thank you all so much), I would like to give a brief update on the circumstances of my unexpected weekend at Suwarnabhumi Airport.

On arrival in Bangkok from Europe last Thursday, I was informed by Immigration that due to my blacklisting instigated by NIA they were obliged to refuse entry to Thailand and I would be have to return to Oslo on the next available flight (Sunday 6 Sept). I objected to this and elected instead to remain in the airport transit area for an extra few days in order to present evidence and request my name be immediately removed from the blacklist

I know there have been a lot of social media criticism of the Immigration Dept over this case, but this is somewhat misplaced. it was entirely my choice to stay to clear the situation locally. So, I want to make it clear I was never kept locked up by the Immigration Dept; this was my choice to remain so I could clear my name from the blacklist. So please give the guys a break!

The Immigration Dept staff have treated me extremely well, offering every convenience they could offer. While the holding room is not endowed with lava lamps and creature comforts, it is fairly clean and the Thai food is always excellent. I spent most of today working in the office of an Immigration official, and was brought food and REAL coffee.

Negotiations are still proceeding, mainly centred around Sunny, my amazing and fearless wife!. So I still cant tell you what's going to happen. At the moment I am stuck here, but things could change quickly.l

I have asked the incoming NIA Director (Dr Pun-Arj Chairatana) to issue another official letter to the Immigration Dept, requesting my removal from the Immigration blacklist, to no avail. His letter of 4 Sept stopped short of this, and merely revoked the original complaint. I am also still awaiting a grovelling official apology... At the every least, I would have expected NIA to issue a statement condemning the malfeasance and flagrantly malicious abuse of power to conduct a vendetta against a private individual, that is so evident in this case; finally, I am calling on NIA to confirm that it will be taking immediate criminal action against the perpetrator under Article 157.

I will provide a further update later tonight. Fingers crossed, folks, and heartfelt thanks once again for all your support. It means so much.

SOURCE: https://www.facebook.com/wyn.ellis/posts/10206456555785768?pnref=story

MZurf · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

Well done by the immigration officials at Suvarnabhumi Airport. I (and most others) know there are good guys out there, they're just not in charge. Because to be in charge you need to play the game, and to play the game you need to be....well, your morals need to be flexible.

This was never about individuals in the Immigration Department but rather about the rottenness of the whole system.

dick turpin · September 8, 2015

"Dr Ellis, who has been working with the UN on sustainable rice production, had believed he would be deported on Thursday after enduring what he called "obnoxious" conditions in an airport holding cell."

Otherwise known as the Thai Airways Business Lounge.

AlQaholic · September 8, 2015

The sad thing we learn from this is that, even if a foreigner cares enough about Thailand to go through the hoops and become a citizen, he/she will still be treated as "second class" and doesn't seem to have any more rights than a tourist. Can someone please explain how a person who is a citizen of a country and holds a passport be "blacklisted" without some sort of court process and revocation of the passport? Only in Thailand !!!

Agree. Agree. There is no valid answer to your question. As pointed out in a previous post this has implications for any foreigner living in Thailand and that inludes retirees who believe they are 100% safe by living under the radar. It only takes one misunderstanding and ......

Be careful, soon you will have the "Yaaa, What? If ya don't like it here shod off to where ye came from" nut-jobs coming after you.....

optad · September 8, 2015

The sad thing we learn from this is that, even if a foreigner cares enough about Thailand to go through the hoops and become a citizen, he/she will still be treated as "second class" and doesn't seem to have any more rights than a tourist. Can someone please explain how a person who is a citizen of a country and holds a passport be "blacklisted" without some sort of court process and revocation of the passport? Only in Thailand !!!

Agree. Agree. There is no valid answer to your question. As pointed out in a previous post this has implications for any foreigner living in Thailand and that inludes retirees who believe they are 100% safe by living under the radar. It only takes one misunderstanding and ......

Holding duel citizenship, depending which ones they are, is not always beneficial as it can reduce a nation's obligations.

As someone else said earlier expecting natural justice is foolish in the extreme. I still very much worry for him. It must be a tricky space he has been in for such a long period of time but this has raised the stakes and Wyn' safety again is questionable.

Nickymaster · September 8, 2015

This story resonates and has legs because everyone, retiree, employee, business owner, knows that 'there but for the grace of God go I'....everyone is only one vindictive or litigious complianant away from being in similar circumstances..

Most foreigners in Thailand want certainty: assurances that there is safety, tenure, freedom from harassment. Sadly, from the perspective of the individuals ( as well as for Thailand itself), there is a vulnerability , not only from vindictive whack-jobs but also government policy which can change at any whim or fancy.

This is a really bad news story for Dr Wym but also for Thailand

Bad news for Thailand? He was removed from immigration blacklist he was put on in 2009. Imo this is good news for Thailand and the current government.
99.99% of all foreigners visiting Thailand have no reason to feel uncertain here. Especially when they don't get involved in local affairs.

...he has been jailed for some days before he has been released...

That doesn't make me feel particularly safe. But oh well, if that's your feeling.

I can't judge your personal situation but I feel very safe when going through immigration. I know for sure they have no reason to block my entry into Thailand.

The scary part is that they don't need a reason to block you.

Now I am really scared....

Rykbanlor · September 8, 2015

https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/doctor-no-more-thai-official-finally-loses-title/420399.article

Well at least they took away his doctorate, to which he apparently sent a letter refuting the allegations, what a joke.

He should be prosecuted for abusing his position too. Never happen though.

rebelplatoon · September 8, 2015

Good luck to him. Just goes to show, no matter what your status, you will always be treated as a pale faced second rate citizen. Another sad day for Thailand.

Rykbanlor · September 8, 2015

https://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/death-threats-in-thailand-for-uk-whistleblower/2006659.article

Some nice details of what Mr Supachai was willing to do to silence Mr. Ellis.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Rykbanlor

riverhigh · September 8, 2015

errrmmm

12002314_594561967348227_1849225193180423829_n.jpg

To be fair he needs to be 'kinder' than before as he's now been allowed to stay and get off the blacklist. That does not excuse the terrible experience and the disgraceful way his name ended up on the blacklist on the basis of a 'letter' sent by someone who was caught cheating! Amazing Thailand

Agree. He needs to be "kinder" than before ... its part of the "not losing face" game which is required if he wants to stay in this country. He mentioned that he had a choice to stay locally. Really? Leave the country and lose everything! Not much of a choice in my opinion.

newcomer71 · September 8, 2015

Statement from Wyn Ellis

Amazed by the global attention I seem to have attracted over the last few days. Due to the huge number of inquires and expressions of concern from media representatives and all our lovely friends (thank you all so much), I would like to give a brief update on the circumstances of my unexpected weekend at Suwarnabhumi Airport.

On arrival in Bangkok from Europe last Thursday, I was informed by Immigration that due to my blacklisting instigated by NIA they were obliged to refuse entry to Thailand and I would be have to return to Oslo on the next available flight (Sunday 6 Sept). I objected to this and elected instead to remain in the airport transit area for an extra few days in order to present evidence and request my name be immediately removed from the blacklist

I know there have been a lot of social media criticism of the Immigration Dept over this case, but this is somewhat misplaced. it was entirely my choice to stay to clear the situation locally. So, I want to make it clear I was never kept locked up by the Immigration Dept; this was my choice to remain so I could clear my name from the blacklist. So please give the guys a break!

The Immigration Dept staff have treated me extremely well, offering every convenience they could offer. While the holding room is not endowed with lava lamps and creature comforts, it is fairly clean and the Thai food is always excellent. I spent most of today working in the office of an Immigration official, and was brought food and REAL coffee.

Negotiations are still proceeding, mainly centred around Sunny, my amazing and fearless wife!. So I still cant tell you what's going to happen. At the moment I am stuck here, but things could change quickly.l

I have asked the incoming NIA Director (Dr Pun-Arj Chairatana) to issue another official letter to the Immigration Dept, requesting my removal from the Immigration blacklist, to no avail. His letter of 4 Sept stopped short of this, and merely revoked the original complaint. I am also still awaiting a grovelling official apology... At the every least, I would have expected NIA to issue a statement condemning the malfeasance and flagrantly malicious abuse of power to conduct a vendetta against a private individual, that is so evident in this case; finally, I am calling on NIA to confirm that it will be taking immediate criminal action against the perpetrator under Article 157.

I will provide a further update later tonight. Fingers crossed, folks, and heartfelt thanks once again for all your support. It means so much.

SOURCE: https://www.facebook.com/wyn.ellis/posts/10206456555785768?pnref=story

This statement does not really reflect one of his tweets

"Pleased to report that I am now out of custody and back in my in my home in Bangkok Yessss!! Pls send pics."

Confused...

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UK academic Wyn Ellis released from Thai detention

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