Palestine flag to be raised over UN

[thaibeachlovers]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

Perhaps it's because when a Palestinian builds anything the Israelis come and demolish it, along with illegal settlers destroying their olive trees. That doesn't encourage anyone to build anything, let alone a better country.

[Michael8511]

Jingthing and Ulysses, you should know. It's the same borders as when Israel are sending their missals and bombs. I would not believe that Israel are bombing their own land and people.

[Michael8511]

You may see me as anti Jewish, for your information I'm not, my father is Jewish. There is a lot of Israelis that would like this nonsense fighting to stop and that Israeli and Palestinian can live peas fully together. It's time to accept Palestine as a state and make piece in the region. To much of religious wars and nonsense in the world. I think that the fact that only 8 countries was against the flag say a lot.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

When you say build, you mean on land they re still sealing, right?

[Steely Dan]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

Perhaps it's because when a Palestinian builds anything the Israelis come and demolish it, along with illegal settlers destroying their olive trees. That doesn't encourage anyone to build anything, let alone a better country.

Hamas spent an estimated $1.6 billion on a network of tunnels under the Israeli border from which to mount terrorist attacks. If they were in any way serious about nation building this money could have been spent on schools and hospitals. At risk of repeating myself the sole purpose of the Palestinian entity is the elimination of the sole Jewish state in the world, A Palestinian leader stated quite clearly that should Israel cease to exist the Palestinians would not wait one further minute to merge with Jordan.

[thaibeachlovers]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

Perhaps it's because when a Palestinian builds anything the Israelis come and demolish it, along with illegal settlers destroying their olive trees. That doesn't encourage anyone to build anything, let alone a better country.

Hamas spent an estimated $1.6 billion on a network of tunnels under the Israeli border from which to mount terrorist attacks. If they were in any way serious about nation building this money could have been spent on schools and hospitals. At risk of repeating myself the sole purpose of the Palestinian entity is the elimination of the sole Jewish state in the world, A Palestinian leader stated quite clearly that should Israel cease to exist the Palestinians would not wait one further minute to merge with Jordan.

Why build things that the Israelis will blow up the next time they decide to attack Gaza? Besides, Israel won't allow cement into Gaza, so how are they going to build these hospitals and schools?

If your neighbour blockaded you, would you not try and fight back? As they do not have tanks and aircraft, terrorism is all they have left.

Israel knows all about terrorism, having driven the British out of Palestine by the use of terrorism. A terrorist even became Israeli PM.

BTW, to an outsider like myself, it seems that the Israeli plan is to eliminate the sole Palestinian homeland in the world. I just don't know where they expect the Palestinian people to go. Perhaps they have a solution in mind, but aren't telling us what it is.

As to merging with Jordan, that would be sensible, given that they are a small country and poor people. Jordan and Palestine used to be together when the British ruled the Palestine Mandate 1921 to 1946, and before that they were both part of the Ottoman empire.

[up-country_sinclair]

Hamas spent an estimated $1.6 billion on a network of tunnels

$1.6 billion?

Where, pray tell, did this figure come from? Perhaps the same source which equates two pipes to a stockpile of pipe bombs?

The Israeli military says the total cost was between $30-90 million, and everyone knows they're going to exaggerate. But even the Israeli military has got nothing on our esteemed members in the exaggeration department.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-it-cost-and-how-long-did-it-take-for-Hamas-to-build-their-network-of-tunnels-under-The-Gaza-Strip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Origins_and_construction

$1.6 billion

[dexterm]

Having the Palestinian flag raised outside the UN, applying for full member status, then taking Israel to the ICC for its illegal occupation is the peaceful way for Palestinians to achieve their goal of self determination in their own country, and should be admired for its non violent diplomacy, not criticized.

Since the current right wing Israeli government is not interested in peace by negotiating a two state solution, Palestinians have no alternative but to put pressure on Israel however they can.

Read what Netanyahu and 15 of his cabinet colleagues really think about the peace process.

The two-state solution is dead. Just ask Israel's own ministers.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/05/state-palestine-israel-zionist-150527070943455.html

Edited September 20, 2015 by dexterm

[Exsexyman]

More people who, if Jingthing is to be believed, must be anti Semitic Jew demonisers:

Jews for Justice for Palestinians

WE BELIEVE THAT

• Lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians requires justice, mutual recognition and respect.
• Peace requires ending Israels illegal occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, including its illegal blockade of Gaza.
• Peace requires Israel to acknowledge its responsibility in the creation of the Palestinian refugees, and its obligation to negotiate a just, fair and practical resolution of the issue.
• Violence against civilians, no matter who commits it, is unacceptable.
• Israels repressive policies in the West Bank and Gaza are breeding hatred and resentment.
• Israels discrimination against its Palestinian citizens is unacceptable.
• It is crucial that Jews speak out for Palestinians human rights.
• The humanitarian values of Judaism have been corrupted by the Israeli states abuses of human rights.
• Britain, the EU, the USA, Russia and the UN must be persuaded to implement UN resolutions on Palestine.

IF YOU AGREE then join nearly two thousand other Jews in Britain who make up JEWS FOR JUSTICE FOR PALESTINIANS

I believe the politically correct term is 'self hating Jews'. Get with the program!

[DaddyWarbucks]

More people who, if Jingthing is to be believed, must be anti Semitic Jew demonisers:

Jews for Justice for Palestinians

WE BELIEVE THAT

• Lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians requires justice, mutual recognition and respect.
• Peace requires ending Israels illegal occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, including its illegal blockade of Gaza.
• Peace requires Israel to acknowledge its responsibility in the creation of the Palestinian refugees, and its obligation to negotiate a just, fair and practical resolution of the issue.
• Violence against civilians, no matter who commits it, is unacceptable.
• Israels repressive policies in the West Bank and Gaza are breeding hatred and resentment.
• Israels discrimination against its Palestinian citizens is unacceptable.
• It is crucial that Jews speak out for Palestinians human rights.
• The humanitarian values of Judaism have been corrupted by the Israeli states abuses of human rights.
• Britain, the EU, the USA, Russia and the UN must be persuaded to implement UN resolutions on Palestine.

IF YOU AGREE then join nearly two thousand other Jews in Britain who make up JEWS FOR JUSTICE FOR PALESTINIANS

I believe the politically correct term is 'self hating Jews'. Get with the program!

Moderate Israelis and Jews worldwide who want a just peace with the Palestinians aren't "...self hating..." by any stretch of the imagination.

The recognition of Palestine by a majority of the international community changes the game. Get with the program.

[Pakboong]

The city of Sderot is only .86 kilometers from Gaza. It may be the most dangerous place in Israel only because of Palestinian rocket and mortar fire. Nobody is listed as having died from this rocket fire since 2008. Only 13 since 2004. It is hard to follow how often this article is updated but I am pretty sure that no Palestinian would not be involved in updating Wikipedia any more than we find one posting on Thai Visa.

Sderot is a city of nearly 30,000 and is several kilometers wide and several kilometers deep. You could not miss it with a mortar if you tried but the Palestinians with Proxy(Iran) provided 21st century weapons. miss this city on a regular basis. In fact, the city is missed over 90% of the time. Hamas rockets missing the town is what I am used to. But it is hard to swallow. Not because I want the town hit and people killed, it is simply not believable. This single issue of probability forms the basis for my opinions on the subject. Something is just not right about the official story.

Imagine the Palestinians who were driven from their town in 1948 living with in mortar range of those who drove them out.

VSderot was founded in 1951 on lands that belonged to the Palestinian Arab village of Najd^[7] and is located a few miles south of the village's ruins. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were driven out^[8] to Gaza Wikipedia

I believe I could fire a mortar all day at Sderot and never miss it. The desert on the other hand would be hard to hit.

[thaibeachlovers]

More people who, if Jingthing is to be believed, must be anti Semitic Jew demonisers:

Jews for Justice for Palestinians

WE BELIEVE THAT

• Lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians requires justice, mutual recognition and respect.
• Peace requires ending Israels illegal occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, including its illegal blockade of Gaza.
• Peace requires Israel to acknowledge its responsibility in the creation of the Palestinian refugees, and its obligation to negotiate a just, fair and practical resolution of the issue.
• Violence against civilians, no matter who commits it, is unacceptable.
• Israels repressive policies in the West Bank and Gaza are breeding hatred and resentment.
• Israels discrimination against its Palestinian citizens is unacceptable.
• It is crucial that Jews speak out for Palestinians human rights.
• The humanitarian values of Judaism have been corrupted by the Israeli states abuses of human rights.
• Britain, the EU, the USA, Russia and the UN must be persuaded to implement UN resolutions on Palestine.

IF YOU AGREE then join nearly two thousand other Jews in Britain who make up JEWS FOR JUSTICE FOR PALESTINIANS

I believe the politically correct term is 'self hating Jews'. Get with the program!

Moderate Israelis and Jews worldwide who want a just peace with the Palestinians aren't "...self hating..." by any stretch of the imagination.

The recognition of Palestine by a majority of the international community changes the game. Get with the program.

I think/ hope he was being sarcastic.

[Steely Dan]

Hamas spent an estimated $1.6 billion on a network of tunnels

$1.6 billion?

Where, pray tell, did this figure come from? Perhaps the same source which equates two pipes to a stockpile of pipe bombs?

The Israeli military says the total cost was between $30-90 million, and everyone knows they're going to exaggerate. But even the Israeli military has got nothing on our esteemed members in the exaggeration department.

https://www.quora.com/How-much-did-it-cost-and-how-long-did-it-take-for-Hamas-to-build-their-network-of-tunnels-under-The-Gaza-Strip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Origins_and_construction

$1.6 billion

Each of the 30 tunnels cost millions and Qatar have pledged $5.4 billion to rebuild Gaza. The sum I quoted sounds realistic and is dwarfed by the amounts of international aid siphoned off into the pockets of Hamas and Palestinian authority leaders.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/186092#.Vf-dzsRXerU

As for only two pipe bombs being found, if you believe that's the extent of it you are even more naive than I gave you credit for.

[Seastallion]

The city of Sderot is only .86 kilometers from Gaza. It may be the most dangerous place in Israel only because of Palestinian rocket and mortar fire. Nobody is listed as having died from this rocket fire since 2008. Only 13 since 2004. It is hard to follow how often this article is updated but I am pretty sure that no Palestinian would not be involved in updating Wikipedia any more than we find one posting on Thai Visa.

Sderot is a city of nearly 30,000 and is several kilometers wide and several kilometers deep. You could not miss it with a mortar if you tried but the Palestinians with Proxy(Iran) provided 21st century weapons. miss this city on a regular basis. In fact, the city is missed over 90% of the time. Hamas rockets missing the town is what I am used to. But it is hard to swallow. Not because I want the town hit and people killed, it is simply not believable. This single issue of probability forms the basis for my opinions on the subject. Something is just not right about the official story.

Imagine the Palestinians who were driven from their town in 1948 living with in mortar range of those who drove them out.

VSderot was founded in 1951 on lands that belonged to the Palestinian Arab village of Najd^[7] and is located a few miles south of the village's ruins. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were driven out^[8] to Gaza Wikipedia

I believe I could fire a mortar all day at Sderot and never miss it. The desert on the other hand would be hard to hit.

Rubbish! What an antisemitic, judeophobe piece of conspiracy theory lie. You just want an end to the existence of Israel and you hate Jews, and your mother was probably deflowered by a Jew....etc etc.

TEN THOUSAND ROCKETS!!!!! That's the cry that matters. 10 000!!!! It's a big number, and gives justification for 500 children being killed.

[Steely Dan]

Not to labor the point, and this is my final word on this specific issue. Here is what can be bought with the supplies used in building just one of the thirty terror tunnels. Funny how so much building materials got through when some of our esteemed members claim Israel does not allow building materials into Gaza.

P.s I see the serial lie about the 500 dead children keeps coming back I'll de-bunk this one later if I have a free minute,

Edited September 21, 2015 by Steely Dan

[thaibeachlovers]

Not to labor the point, and this is my final word on this specific issue. Here is what can be bought with the supplies used in building just one of the thirty terror tunnels. Funny how so much building materials got through when some of our esteemed members claim Israel does not allow building materials into Gaza.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1442826289.059674.jpg

P.s I see the serial lie about the 500 dead children keeps coming back I'll de-bunk this one later if I have a free minute,

I'm sure you know this, but the building materials come in through tunnels to Sinai.

Again, why would they build schools or hospitals when they know the Israelis will blow them up on their next pogrom against Gaza?

[i claudius]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

Perhaps it's because when a Palestinian builds anything the Israelis come and demolish it, along with illegal settlers destroying their olive trees. That doesn't encourage anyone to build anything, let alone a better country.

maybe if they stopped fireing rockets into Israel it might not happen

[thaibeachlovers]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

Perhaps it's because when a Palestinian builds anything the Israelis come and demolish it, along with illegal settlers destroying their olive trees. That doesn't encourage anyone to build anything, let alone a better country.

maybe if they stopped fireing rockets into Israel it might not happen

They are NOT firing into Israel. They are firing them into THEIR land that is illegally occupied by Israel. Get it right, why don't you?

If the illegal settlers stopped stealing their land they might stop firing rockets at the thieves.

Under what international law is stealing OCCUPIED land legal?

[i claudius]

,the trouble is that while Israel does everything in their power to build a better country the Palestinians like many of the Muslim country's are happy to sit on their backsides and do nothing to help themselves

Perhaps it's because when a Palestinian builds anything the Israelis come and demolish it, along with illegal settlers destroying their olive trees. That doesn't encourage anyone to build anything, let alone a better country.

maybe if they stopped fireing rockets into Israel it might not happen

They are NOT firing into Israel. They are firing them into THEIR land that is illegally occupied by Israel. Get it right, why don't you?

If the illegal settlers stopped stealing their land they might stop firing rockets at the thieves.

Under what international law is stealing OCCUPIED land legal?

Rubbish

[Jingthing]

Not to labor the point, and this is my final word on this specific issue. Here is what can be bought with the supplies used in building just one of the thirty terror tunnels. Funny how so much building materials got through when some of our esteemed members claim Israel does not allow building materials into Gaza.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1442826289.059674.jpg

P.s I see the serial lie about the 500 dead children keeps coming back I'll de-bunk this one later if I have a free minute,

I'm sure you know this, but the building materials come in through tunnels to Sinai.

Again, why would they build schools or hospitals when they know the Israelis will blow them up on their next pogrom against Gaza?

You're trying to whip up hatred against Israel ... as if Israelis enjoy going to war and dealing with a terrorist enemy that cares so little for their own people that they use them callously as human shields, sacrifice their young boys in terror tunnel building, etc. Yes if Gaza did decide on a peaceful path, they would have no such worries as you suggest. The way Gaza wins points is to parade their civilian dead (many of whom aren't really civilians and many of whom weren't actually killed by Israelis but killed internally by their oppressive radical Islamist culture of death regime).

Edited September 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Scott]

I suggest you get back on the topic and quit baiting other members.

[7by7]

Not to labor the point, and this is my final word on this specific issue. Here is what can be bought with the supplies used in building just one of the thirty terror tunnels. Funny how so much building materials got through when some of our esteemed members claim Israel does not allow building materials into Gaza.

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1442826289.059674.jpg

P.s I see the serial lie about the 500 dead children keeps coming back I'll de-bunk this one later if I have a free minute,

As you have not given the source for that piece of propaganda, there is, of course, no way of judging it's veracity.

However, following the argument you present by using it; in the 1940's Britain should have used the vast amounts of material getting through the U boat blockade to the UK to build homes, schools and hospitals rather than weapons with which to fight Nazi Germany!

The Israeli government could stop the war tomorrow if they wished; but they don't.

BTW, before the accusations fly, I am not equating Israel with Nazi Germany.

Neither am I being anti Semitic, Judeophobic or a Jew hater. I am criticising the Israeli government and it's policies, not Judaism or Jews. Although I do realise that some here lack the intellectual capacity to tell the difference.

Edited September 21, 2015 by 7by7

[geriatrickid]

They are NOT firing into Israel. They are firing them into THEIR land that is illegally occupied by Israel. Get it right, why don't you?

If the illegal settlers stopped stealing their land they might stop firing rockets at the thieves.

Under what international law is stealing OCCUPIED land legal?

The land on the other side of Gaza where the rockets are fired, particularly around Tel Aviv and in the south is 100% Israeli. Even the PLA does not claim the land. None of this land is occupied, unless your point is that the Israelis have no right to anything in Israel.

[geriatrickid]

As you have not given the source for that piece of propaganda, there is, of course, no way of judging it's veracity.

However, following the argument you present by using it; in the 1940's Britain should have used the vast amounts of material getting through the U boat blockade to the UK to build homes, schools and hospitals rather than weapons with which to fight Nazi Germany!

The Israeli government could stop the war tomorrow if they wished; but they don't.

BTW, before the accusations fly, I am not equating Israel with Nazi Germany.

Neither am I being anti Semitic, Judeophobic or a Jew hater. I am criticising the Israeli government and it's policies, not Judaism or Jews. Although I do realise that some here lack the intellectual capacity to tell the difference.

The comment that Israel could stop the war tomorrow if they wished (sic), but they don't is only rather silly. Unfortunately it does demonstrate your bias. Yes, Israel could easily stop the attacks from Gaza. It would require turning the region to glass and perhaps the reoccupation of Gaza. However, Israel has tried to achieve a peaceful situation. That is why it withdrew from the former Egyptian territory of Gaza,

The current state of conflict has more to do with PLA- Hamas -Iran - Isis politics than anything else. In case you missed it, these factions hate their opponents. The only thing they can agree on is their hatred of Israel and the USA. Having a conflict with Israel is a quick way to get unity.

You equate the restrictions of weapons and other war materials to Gaza with the efforts of the UK in WWII. That really is sad. Hamas and its Islamic jihadist allies are dedicated to one thing only, the destruction of Israel and the death of all Israelis.They are the aggressors. It is offensive and idiotic to compare the senseless jihadi violence of the middle east, and particularly Gaza with the valiant struggle of England and its allies against the Nazi death machine. Your comment it defies common sense and pretends that history was different. If you had family who served through WII and saw action, it is highly unlikely they would share your view. I know my family didn't.

The Gaza is not ruled by humanist law. It is a defacto Sharia law environment. There are no democratic principles at stake. Hamas and its jihadi allies rule by violence and intimidation. There are no human rights in Gaza because that is how it is run by the local arabs. The reality is that tonnes of material cross the Israeli border each week. No legitimate health, or food or non war material has been blocked by Israel. However, Egypt has blocked its border with Gaza and has repeatedly occupied border areas as it pursues its action against the Muslim Brotherhood who are supported from within Gaza. It is far more likely that Egypt will enter the Gaza to put an end to the regular attacks against Egyptians, than Israel.

[TooPoopedToPop]

As you have not given the source for that piece of propaganda, there is, of course, no way of judging it's veracity.

However, following the argument you present by using it; in the 1940's Britain should have used the vast amounts of material getting through the U boat blockade to the UK to build homes, schools and hospitals rather than weapons with which to fight Nazi Germany!

The Israeli government could stop the war tomorrow if they wished; but they don't.

BTW, before the accusations fly, I am not equating Israel with Nazi Germany.

Neither am I being anti Semitic, Judeophobic or a Jew hater. I am criticising the Israeli government and it's policies, not Judaism or Jews. Although I do realise that some here lack the intellectual capacity to tell the difference.

The comment that Israel could stop the war tomorrow if they wished (sic), but they don't is only rather silly. Unfortunately it does demonstrate your bias. Yes, Israel could easily stop the attacks from Gaza. It would require turning the region to glass and perhaps the reoccupation of Gaza. However, Israel has tried to achieve a peaceful situation. That is why it withdrew from the former Egyptian territory of Gaza,

The current state of conflict has more to do with PLA- Hamas -Iran - Isis politics than anything else. In case you missed it, these factions hate their opponents. The only thing they can agree on is their hatred of Israel and the USA. Having a conflict with Israel is a quick way to get unity.

You equate the restrictions of weapons and other war materials to Gaza with the efforts of the UK in WWII. That really is sad. Hamas and its Islamic jihadist allies are dedicated to one thing only, the destruction of Israel and the death of all Israelis.They are the aggressors. It is offensive and idiotic to compare the senseless jihadi violence of the middle east, and particularly Gaza with the valiant struggle of England and its allies against the Nazi death machine. Your comment it defies common sense and pretends that history was different. If you had family who served through WII and saw action, it is highly unlikely they would share your view. I know my family didn't.

The Gaza is not ruled by humanist law. It is a defacto Sharia law environment. There are no democratic principles at stake. Hamas and its jihadi allies rule by violence and intimidation. There are no human rights in Gaza because that is how it is run by the local arabs. The reality is that tonnes of material cross the Israeli border each week. No legitimate health, or food or non war material has been blocked by Israel. However, Egypt has blocked its border with Gaza and has repeatedly occupied border areas as it pursues its action against the Muslim Brotherhood who are supported from within Gaza. It is far more likely that Egypt will enter the Gaza to put an end to the regular attacks against Egyptians, than Israel.

Israeli aggression, war crimes, and land grabs provoke violent resistance... that's the short answer to your biased nonsense.

[Steely Dan]

Tibet is a far more deserving case than Palestine. They were a sovereign nation with defined borders, their own ruler and currency. They are a distinct ethnic group different from their neighbors, not generic Arabs with Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian surnames as the Palestinians are.

Tibet was invaded without provoking said invasion, they did not squander their chance of statehood by mounting wars of intended annihilation against their neighbors. They never had a chance to settle for defined borders based on UN mandate.

Finally in spite of all this they campaign for independence through non violent protest as oppose to the terrorism the Palestinians have never ceased to rely on.

P.s And there certainly haven't been any 'peace flotillas' manned by one issue activists sailing over the Himalayas to bring them aid (weapons).

Edited September 22, 2015 by Steely Dan

[7by7]

geriatrickid, your response to my last post shows that you have completely failed to understand it and the metaphor contained therein.

Whether that is deliberate or not, only you know.

BTW, my father served in the RAF from 1939 to 1946.

My mother served in the ATS (if you don't know what that was, look it up) from 1940 until 1944.

[Jingthing]

Well the "Palestinians" may have a flag, but they don't have any kind of state:

[thaibeachlovers]

Well the "Palestinians" may have a flag, but they don't have any kind of state:

Well, that may be true, but how long do you think Israelis can live there knowing that everyone surrounding them wants to kill them and that most of the countries in the world do not support them? 20 years, 50, 100?

Wouldn't it be better to make friends with their neighbours?

As you probably know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time. So far, everything Israel does to the Palestinians is a repeat and nothing gets better. Isn't it time to try a different way?

[Steely Dan]

Just supposing for a moment there was a Palestinian state, what would it be like and how many Israeli Arabs would wish to join it? In a recent poll 77% of Israeli Arabs stated they would rather be governed by the Israelis than the Palestinian authority.

I wonder why? The answer goes to the heart of just what the obsessive Jew haters can't stand.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcrbyxe3LW4&feature=youtu.be