Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[ronwparker]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

Last week, a partially blind Burmese beach cleaner told the court he spotted the garden hoe at the scene before police arrived, and returned the tool to its normal spot nearby. Upon police's request, he later retrieved the hoe, which he said he was unaware was covered in blood.

“The garden hoe yielded no DNA traces and no fingerprints, according to police,” said the defendants’ lawyer, Nakhon Chompuchat. “But we think there should be something left.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626&typecate=06&section=

Ha ha-this was such an obvious fit up-the poor little Burmese guys are in prison for over a year-this causes the country to have an even worse reputation!

[ronwparker]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

Last week, a partially blind Burmese beach cleaner told the court he spotted the garden hoe at the scene before police arrived, and returned the tool to its normal spot nearby. Upon police's request, he later retrieved the hoe, which he said he was unaware was covered in blood.

“The garden hoe yielded no DNA traces and no fingerprints, according to police,” said the defendants’ lawyer, Nakhon Chompuchat. “But we think there should be something left.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626&typecate=06&section=

shame the RTP are shockingly corrupt!

[stephenterry]

I dont see the need for the accused to give evidence at all. The prosecution needs to prove the B2 did it and have providd no evidence at all.

In a real justice system defence would not need to call any evidence at all, just make an application to the judge that prosecution failed to prove the elements of the case and the B2 would be on their way home.

But Thailand is different

So take care, Linky. They only have to say you were drunk/found drugs on you/ anything illegal, and that's the evidence proven. Guilty verdict.

[BritTim]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

Last week, a partially blind Burmese beach cleaner told the court he spotted the garden hoe at the scene before police arrived, and returned the tool to its normal spot nearby. Upon police's request, he later retrieved the hoe, which he said he was unaware was covered in blood.

“The garden hoe yielded no DNA traces and no fingerprints, according to police,” said the defendants’ lawyer, Nakhon Chompuchat. “But we think there should be something left.”

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626&typecate=06&section=

Ha ha-this was such an obvious fit up-the poor little Burmese guys are in prison for over a year-this causes the country to have an even worse reputation!

Note the hoe was moved before the police arrived. However, with the help of Mon they were able to determine that the hoe was not where it should have been on the crime scene, and arranged to move it back. Still unexplained how Mon and the police knew where the hoe was supposed to be left.

Funnily enough, we know from the reenactment that the Burmese kids did not know where to leave the hoe and needed to be told.

Edited October 10, 2015 by BritTim

[stephenterry]

The defence has pulled of some pretty clever moves so far.

I wonder if they have a strategy for what the Burmese two must put out, to put real some real doubt into the minds of the judges?

Or does it even matter?

If facing death or life in prison surely you can come up with something better than..

we got extremely drunk, didnt see anything, went home...

Then i guess the first thing an opposition would ask is

"If you were so drunk you couldnt walk and didnt know what was going on around you, then how did you manage to make it home on a bike? "

Some have suggested they know more than what they are letting on.

But if they facing the death penalty already, why would they be scared of speaking out?

"If you were so drunk you couldnt walk and didnt know what was going on around you, then how did you manage to make it home on a bike? "

Might be interesting if they said "we cannot remember how we got home". If the prosecution say "we know you did because we have it on CCTV", then the court might like to see the CCTV in question.

Of course, that CCTV might then turn out not to have been kept for budget reasons.

Thats a point. And in a place like that there's probably only one main route for them to get home.

I wonder if the defense has ever looked into trying to obtain the CCTV for that route?

If they did, and were denied, they could then ask by whos authority was it denied and why?

One investigator cop said (on the stand at the trial) that he/they looked at over 60 hours of CCTV from that night. What was seen? Did they share some or any footage with defense? Was any of it CCTV which Mon declined to hand over (saying it was his 'private property')? Let's not forget, this is the same RTP which said they didn't even look at CCTV of boats leaving the island (and who might have boarded them?) just after the crime, deeming it unimportant. Re; the unseen beach/dock CCTV, the report used the word 'have' instead of 'had' as in; "we have that footage." Does that mean they still have it, as reported? Or was it just sloppy reporting, and they 'had' the potentially crucial CCTV, but trashed it when realizing it either A. was too unimportant to keep, or B. it implicated people they're sworn/paid to shield from scrutiny?

Exactly. So in the whole 60 hours there is zilch film of the B2 leaving the scene. Total B/S. CCTV of victims entering the AC bar, zilch leaving it. Total B/S.

I give up. This whole set-up is all total B/S. What's even more despicable, it's transparently obvious to anyone with a measurable IQ.

Do they care? I doubt it, they're so far up their backsides to register anything but more B/S.

[sweatalot]

I dont see the need for the accused to give evidence at all. The prosecution needs to prove the B2 did it and have providd no evidence at all.

In a real justice system defence would not need to call any evidence at all, just make an application to the judge that prosecution failed to prove the elements of the case and the B2 would be on their way home.

But Thailand is different

So take care, Linky. They only have to say you were drunk/found drugs on you/ anything illegal, and that's the evidence proven. Guilty verdict.

And that's what I am concerned of - even more after the Koh Tao case unfolded

[metisdead]

A post of a trolling nature has been removed.

[StealthEnergiser]

1. 2 hours ago

   @Atomicalandy Is it unusual for the court to convene over a weekend?

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@gus_watson very unusual indeed, and indeed this is a very exceptional case with many unusual and unprecedented issues arising

[RWA]

The number 9 shirt looks very similar to the uniforms in that bar above.

nuum9.jpg num9A.jpg

Yes it does indeed, they were all part of the football party group that were out that night.

however, he doesn't seem to wear THAT ring on this pic?

[RWA]

Why don't the defense call him as a witness?

Even if they did, which I guess they have, who says he will show up? He's a subordinate in all of this so I imagine he does whatever is best for his career and family... So, he likely won't ever be heard from in the matter.

In which case, should a subpoena not be issued, and if that doesn't work, a warrant for his arrest?

correct ...!!! ... That baffles me there actually was not ANY subpoena issued whatsoever, even though it is a common practice in the Thai Court! ... (i.e. cell phone record, flight passenger lists, certain CCTV footage, foreign witnesses, crucial parts of evidence - cloths, hair, etc., ...?!)

[StealthEnergiser]

Man accused of murdering Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge claims he was beaten and threatened by Thai police

11:49 10 October 2015

One of the two Burmese migrant workers on trial for the murder of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge, in Koh Tao, Thailand, has described in court how he was beaten and threatened by Thai police as well as the interpreter engaged to translate for him.

22 year-old Zaw Lin said he was struck in the chest by a police officer, but also punched by the translator after he was asked questions about his religion and his ethnicity.

The prosecution maintains that Zaw Lin, and his co-accused Wei Phyo, also 22, confessed freely to raping and murdering 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, from Hemsby, and killing fellow British tourist David Miller from Jersey. Thai police have denied their confessions were extracted by torture.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Edited October 10, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[StealthEnergiser]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

[Darkknight666]

New Judges, eh? Maybe that's a good sign! I know, I know.... Foolish thinking.

[catsanddogs]

Man accused of murdering Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge claims he was beaten and threatened by Thai police

11:49 10 October 2015

One of the two Burmese migrant workers on trial for the murder of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge, in Koh Tao, Thailand, has described in court how he was beaten and threatened by Thai police as well as the interpreter engaged to translate for him.

22 year-old Zaw Lin said he was struck in the chest by a police officer, but also punched by the translator after he was asked questions about his religion and his ethnicity.

The prosecution maintains that Zaw Lin, and his co-accused Wei Phyo, also 22, confessed freely to raping and murdering 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, from Hemsby, and killing fellow British tourist David Miller from Jersey. Thai police have denied their confessions were extracted by torture.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

From that article -

Zaw Lin said the same translator also told him he would be killed if he did not follow police instructions at the public re-enactment of the crimes last October, or if he tried to speak to reporters who were present.

Zaw Lin said both he and Wei Phyo were instructed and guided by police in exactly what to do at internal police and public re-enactments.

Well who would have guessed that!

I see the RTP were keen to take many photographs of the B2 re-enactment. No doubt they had enough in the budget to store plenty of these ones.

[scorecard]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

In the link provided just above it says in regard to Zaw Lin:

"His DNA, now linking him to the crimes, was taken forcibly, he said."

Is this statement new, has this just been established today? Or what?

Edited October 10, 2015 by scorecard

[StealthEnergiser]

New Judges, eh? Maybe that's a good sign! I know, I know.... Foolish thinking.

Good or bad I am not sure but I thought the same judges would have to be on the trial from start to finish.

[catsanddogs]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Why!?

[stephenterry]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Why!?

It's common practice in long trials. Clearly imperfect.

[StealthEnergiser]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

In the link provided just above it says in regard to Zaw Lin:

"His DNA, now linking him to the crimes, was taken forcibly, he said."

Is this statement new, has this just been established today? Or what?

Zaw Lin described in court how he was battered and threatened by a translator and police investigating the murders, which took place in Koh Tao in September last year.

Previously Zaw Lin described to the panel of three judges how he was stripped, blindfolded, and had numerous plastic bags placed over his head during questioning to force him to confess to the crimes.

He also said he was told his body would be dismembered, burned and dumped at sea.

His DNA, which allegedly linked him to the crimes, was taken forcibly, he said.

http://www.dream100.com/news/irnnews.php?s=8&xFile=headlines&flv=

[StealthEnergiser]

Torture Claims From Thai Beach Murder Accused

Zaw Lin described in court how he was battered and threatened by a translator and police investigating the murders, which took place in Koh Tao in September last year.

Previously Zaw Lin described to the panel of three judges how he was stripped, blindfolded, and had numerous plastic bags placed over his head during questioning to force him to confess to the crimes.

He also said he was told his body would be dismembered, burned and dumped at sea.

His DNA, which allegedly linked him to the crimes, was taken forcibly, he said.

The prosecution maintains that Zaw Lin and his co-accused Wei Phyo, also 22, confessed freely to raping and murdering 23-year-old Miss Witheridge, from Hemsby, Norfolk, and killing fellow British tourist David Miller, 24, from Jersey.

http://www.dream100.com/news/irnnews.php?s=8&xFile=headlines&flv=

[stephenterry]

Why don't they just let them go? It's as clear as day they didn't commit these crimes. About time some common sense prevailed.

[T_Dog]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Makes one wonder how they achieve continuity in a trial like this. How do the new judges come up to speed on the past testimony?

[stephenterry]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Makes one wonder how they achieve continuity in a trial like this. How do the new judges come up to speed on the past testimony?

They read the previous transcripts. It's common practice but clearly imperfect.

[boomerangutang]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Wow. If I'm not mistaken, the head judge for the trial was replaced in April (he's the one who asked the defendants, in December arraignment, "if you didn't do the crime, do you know who did?"). Now it appears 2 of the 3 judges are being replaced. Just conjecture on my part, but here's a scenario: those 2 may have been leaning to acquittal. Top Thai brass and the KT Headman don't want acquittal. Simple solution: replace the 2 who aren't playing by officialdom's rulebook, with two who are.

[boomerangutang]

Why don't they just let them go? It's as clear as day they didn't commit these crimes. About time some common sense prevailed.

.... and start looking for who really committed the crime.

Makes one wonder how they achieve continuity in a trial like this. How do the new judges come up to speed on the past testimony?

Simple answer: do it 'Thai style.' Have you ever had a Thai translate for you? This is what usually happens: One or two people speak in Thai for several minutes. You turn to the translator, and ask her what they said. Response: "Dey have some ploblem."

[catsanddogs]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Wow. If I'm not mistaken, the head judge for the trial was replaced in April (he's the one who asked the defendants, in December arraignment, "if you didn't do the crime, do you know who did?"). Now it appears 2 of the 3 judges are being replaced. Just conjecture on my part, but here's a scenario: those 2 may have been leaning to acquittal. Top Thai brass and the KT Headman don't want acquittal. Simple solution: replace the 2 who aren't playing by officialdom's rulebook, with two who are.

That is my concern also. Hopefully Andy Hall will provide some enlightenment soon.

[boomerangutang]

"The trial was extended by two days to allow for the testimony from the defendants.

However two of the three judges who had been present for the previous 19 days of the trial were replaced in court by two new judges".

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/man_accused_of_murdering_norfolk_student_hannah_witheridge_claims_he_was_beaten_and_threatened_by_thai_police_1_4266487?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

Makes one wonder how they achieve continuity in a trial like this. How do the new judges come up to speed on the past testimony?

They read the previous transcripts. It's common practice but clearly imperfect.

Transcripts written by whom? Oh ok, the head judge allows himself a recording device. But is it always turned on? Is it always working? Does it work as well as the CCTV cameras on KT? ....or perhaps it works as well as the CCTV cameras around the Erawan statue in Bkk. Also, from a recording, can the listener always tell who's speaking - particularly when two or more people are discussing something?

I shouldn't have so many questions, and instead embrace what the self-appointed PM tells me, "this is a perfect case. Thai detectives study from the same books as British detectives." (the PM actually said that, so it must be true). Or what Chief cop Prayut said at the press conference when he announced Nomsod's DNA didn't match: "We don't need to send Nomsod's DNA to British experts because the British know we're doing a perfect job."

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao case defendant no. 1 Zaw Lin completed testimony at 715pm. Defendant no. 2 Wai Phyo has now taken stand

[StealthEnergiser]

https://twitter.com/Atomicalandy/status/652826298998353920

[Briggsy]

Whilst a change of judges is common in long trials in Thailand, this is not a good sign.

It is a tactic when an egregious verdict is ordered from on high. No judge wants to be permanently associated with a blatantly biased verdict, so a judge shuffle at the end of the trial allows the newcomer and the replaced to point the finger at each other and say, "I didn't do it, he did."

Alternatively, a switch may have been ordered to ensure the verdict goes as authority wants it to go. This is much more commonly seen when a new police officer or police department gets to take over a case to ensure the investigation goes as somebody wishes.