I closed my business in thailand and saw surprising effects....

[Soutpeel]

Employing people and they're working on tourist visas?????

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

Naah Phil just has some strong opinions on certain subjects that's all

[misterphil]

Employing people and they're working on tourist visas?????

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

No I'm at work and sober as a judge.

[Don Mega]

Employing people and they're working on tourist visas?????

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

No I'm at work and sober as a judge.

work = sugar baby agogo ?

[ericthai]

So it wasn't your business then, so you OP is incorrect and what xenophobic hassles ?

surely if one is fronting the cash one would expect to own 49% of the business which is legally permissible, seems very strange indeed someone would front such large amounts of cash in good faith without a sharehold

Your story is getting stranger by the post

because I realized from my previously foreign Thai company that a 100% Thai owned company has more advantages and got less scrutinized than the foreign one and pays much less fees and taxes, I don't need to be a shareholder because the business is service based and doesn't sit on any valuable assets it s commission per sale based.

Wow.. the BS just gets deeper and deeper with you. I'm an expat and part owner of our company and we get treated the same as Thai owners. Taxes and fees are set by the government and are exactly the same if there is an expat shareholder or not. So you just make shit up to justify why you didn't open a legal company and employ workers legally.

The idea of the crack down to to stop expats from working illegally, what you were doing is a prime example of the issues immigration is trying to tackle. unfortunately because of people like you, it hurts the guys that want to stay in Thailand long term who are not working.

[misterphil]

Employing people and they're working on tourist visas?????

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

No I'm at work and sober as a judge.

work = sugar baby agogo ?

I wish I was in a GoGo bar.

I'm in the worse place in the world at the moment.

Afghanistan.

[Soutpeel]

Employing people and they're working on tourist visas?????

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

No I'm at work and sober as a judge.

work = sugar baby agogo ?

I wish I was in a GoGo bar.

I'm in the worse place in the world at the moment.

Afghanistan.

Could be worse Phil, you could be in Saudi LOL

[Sooo Upto Me]

Employing people and they're working on tourist visas?????

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

No I'm at work and sober as a judge.

work = sugar baby agogo ?

I wish I was in a GoGo bar.

I'm in the worse place in the world at the moment.

Afghanistan.

Bloody hell an I thought Pattaya woz bad. Lol (An yes I am living there)

[marcofunny]

So it wasn't your business then, so you OP is incorrect and what xenophobic hassles ?

surely if one is fronting the cash one would expect to own 49% of the business which is legally permissible, seems very strange indeed someone would front such large amounts of cash in good faith without a sharehold

Your story is getting stranger by the post

because I realized from my previously foreign Thai company that a 100% Thai owned company has more advantages and got less scrutinized than the foreign one and pays much less fees and taxes, I don't need to be a shareholder because the business is service based and doesn't sit on any valuable assets it s commission per sale based.

Wow.. the BS just gets deeper and deeper with you. I'm an expat and part owner of our company and we get treated the same as Thai owners. Taxes and fees are set by the government and are exactly the same if there is an expat shareholder or not. So you just make shit up to justify why you didn't open a legal company and employ workers legally.

The idea of the crack down to to stop expats from working illegally, what you were doing is a prime example of the issues immigration is trying to tackle. unfortunately because of people like you, it hurts the guys that want to stay in Thailand long term who are not working.

I still maintains that a 100% locally owned Thai company with highly ranked powerful nominees can outperform the foreign ones and I repeated the same scenario in Cambodia to have an edge over other competitors.

the priority is given to the locals that s the norm here in SEA.

talk to your business advisers or lawyers as you might not live in the same planet as I do .

Edited September 14, 2015 by marcofunny

[ericthai]

So it wasn't your business then, so you OP is incorrect and what xenophobic hassles ?

surely if one is fronting the cash one would expect to own 49% of the business which is legally permissible, seems very strange indeed someone would front such large amounts of cash in good faith without a sharehold

Your story is getting stranger by the post

because I realized from my previously foreign Thai company that a 100% Thai owned company has more advantages and got less scrutinized than the foreign one and pays much less fees and taxes, I don't need to be a shareholder because the business is service based and doesn't sit on any valuable assets it s commission per sale based.

Wow.. the BS just gets deeper and deeper with you. I'm an expat and part owner of our company and we get treated the same as Thai owners. Taxes and fees are set by the government and are exactly the same if there is an expat shareholder or not. So you just make shit up to justify why you didn't open a legal company and employ workers legally.

The idea of the crack down to to stop expats from working illegally, what you were doing is a prime example of the issues immigration is trying to tackle. unfortunately because of people like you, it hurts the guys that want to stay in Thailand long term who are not working.

I still maintains that a 100% locally owned Thai company with highly ranked powerful nominees can outperform the foreign ones and I repeated the same scenario in Cambodia to have an edge over other competitors.

the priority is given to the locals that s the norm here in SEA.

talk you business advisers or lawyers as you might not live in the same planet as I do .

What you are saying now is two different things. Of course if your company has a Thai shareholder that is best friends with the PM you will have advantages.

same goes for anywhere in the world.

One of my Thai partners does have good govt contacts, which helped us get BOI, but the fact is still that same that if a company has an expat shareholder or not all the fees and procedures are the same. Fees and regulations of the Thai company are what they are!

Anyway i'm done, you had an illegal company employing people illegally and want to blame Thailand for cracking down on the rules. You were wrong period!

[MRYANG]

Marco - You must ignore the plain in sight noobs. I totally understand you and wish u good luck. Somehow it would have been better for you to stay in Thailand but people that actually runs a proper business - thai or foreigner knows what u mean.

Don't forget this is Internet where anyone with a keyboard is an expert in everything and completely faultless. That's why people that has never owned, driven or been inside a Ferrari still say they are overpriced crap. But understand - It is thanks to people like you Internet exists!

Cheers mate!

Edited September 14, 2015 by MRYANG

[misterphil]

[q

Its <deleted> <deleted> like you that make it difficult for me and many others on here to stay here legally.

I hope your business fails and you end up in the gutter you <deleted> piece of shit.

That's a bit strong, Hav u just rolled in from ur local bar?

No I'm at work and sober as a judge.

work = sugar baby agogo ?

I wish I was in a GoGo bar.

I'm in the worse place in the world at the moment.

Afghanistan.

Bloody hell an I thought Pattaya woz bad. Lol (An yes I am living there)

At least you've got beer and pussy.

[Soutpeel]

So it wasn't your business then, so you OP is incorrect and what xenophobic hassles ?

surely if one is fronting the cash one would expect to own 49% of the business which is legally permissible, seems very strange indeed someone would front such large amounts of cash in good faith without a sharehold

Your story is getting stranger by the post

because I realized from my previously foreign Thai company that a 100% Thai owned company has more advantages and got less scrutinized than the foreign one and pays much less fees and taxes, I don't need to be a shareholder because the business is service based and doesn't sit on any valuable assets it s commission per sale based.

Wow.. the BS just gets deeper and deeper with you. I'm an expat and part owner of our company and we get treated the same as Thai owners. Taxes and fees are set by the government and are exactly the same if there is an expat shareholder or not. So you just make shit up to justify why you didn't open a legal company and employ workers legally.

The idea of the crack down to to stop expats from working illegally, what you were doing is a prime example of the issues immigration is trying to tackle. unfortunately because of people like you, it hurts the guys that want to stay in Thailand long term who are not working.

I still maintains that a 100% locally owned Thai company with highly ranked powerful nominees can outperform the foreign ones and I repeated the same scenario in Cambodia to have an edge over other competitors.

the priority is given to the locals that s the norm here in SEA.

talk to your business advisers or lawyers as you might not live in the same planet as I do .

Oh so now its high ranked powerful nominee's LOL not just 100% Thai owned, make your mind up, you keep changing the story at every turn - fact is you have been show to be wrong with every assertion and so called statement of fact you have made to date

There are people on here who actually own and run legal business in Thailand who have commented

It is quite obvious you dont live on the same planet as others, everyone else lives on planet earth, one suspects you spend a lot of time in Uranus

[Time Traveller]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

[h90]

Lots of commentary here on "just sort the work permit problem" but I guess most saying that haven't actually needed to go through the process.

One complication is that it takes time and if you are already "working" then you are caught up on a wheel outside the law so to speak and the OP's comments regarding a transient workforce are spot on.

Been there seen that and got the t-shirt, the process is painless if you have people who know what they are doing and i base my observations on working in Thailand and having been through quite a few other WP/work visa processes in quite a few countries over the years and Thailands is one of the easiest

If you have everything correct and in order it is painless. I needed 3 attempts because the broker worked slow and stupid so always some document expired. After everything was done correct it was painless but expensive.

With an IQ of 80 and 1 hour time you could streamline everything in a way that would save half the time and costs.

With an IQ of 100 and 1 day for thinking you could cut away 90 % of it and still keep control of it.

why use an agent? When I started my company i had an account / office girl. I told her to do what is needed to get me a work permit. she said she didnt know anything about work permits and wanted to hire an agent. I told her no, call the labor department find out what is needed and provide them the documents.

She did as I asked and everything was completed within a few weeks. However she is a smart girl.

"However she is a smart girl."

yes that is the difference, ours is not. Our external accountant would have done it, but would have cost the same as an agent. And I live very far away from the immigration and really don't want to go there 3 times because something is wrong.

[h90]

A 100% owned Thai Ltd company pays exactly the same fees and taxes as one with a foreign shareholder even with a 49% holding there are no additional foreigners fees or taxes

You don't need to be a shareholder but by your own words you invested a lot of money in 100% Thai company with no valuable assets assets and rely on commission only ?

As I said getting stranger and stranger

I don't want to delve into more details but my own business experience has confirmed that running a 100% Thai company is far better option than any foreign involvement especially when dealing with unofficial rules, try to rent or buy a product speaking Thai or English and you will notice the price differences, you might have different business domain then mine but at least in my domain 100% Thai is far better and secure option.

I "own" here a company with 49%. There is no, not at all, any difference to Thai owned....Not at customs, not a revenue department. Maybe even an advantage at the customer.

Thanks for confirming that

I think the problems happen when some Farang tries to mess around with the revenue department himself with lots of problems in his documents + the usual arrogance. Than of course, if he want everything perfect the revenue department is checking everything perfectly.....

I recall in a former job, where they forgot something (wrong documentations on exports) and the revenue department was ready to find some compromise, till the MD came. Rev. told that it is the law in Thailand to have that and the MD told her that the law in Thailand is wrong in a very aggressive way.....

You can't do that in Thailand and you can't do that in your home country.....

[Soutpeel]

A 100% owned Thai Ltd company pays exactly the same fees and taxes as one with a foreign shareholder even with a 49% holding there are no additional foreigners fees or taxes

You don't need to be a shareholder but by your own words you invested a lot of money in 100% Thai company with no valuable assets assets and rely on commission only ?

As I said getting stranger and stranger

I don't want to delve into more details but my own business experience has confirmed that running a 100% Thai company is far better option than any foreign involvement especially when dealing with unofficial rules, try to rent or buy a product speaking Thai or English and you will notice the price differences, you might have different business domain then mine but at least in my domain 100% Thai is far better and secure option.

I "own" here a company with 49%. There is no, not at all, any difference to Thai owned....Not at customs, not a revenue department. Maybe even an advantage at the customer.

Thanks for confirming that

I think the problems happen when some Farang tries to mess around with the revenue department himself with lots of problems in his documents + the usual arrogance. Than of course, if he want everything perfect the revenue department is checking everything perfectly.....

I recall in a former job, where they forgot something (wrong documentations on exports) and the revenue department was ready to find some compromise, till the MD came. Rev. told that it is the law in Thailand to have that and the MD told her that the law in Thailand is wrong in a very aggressive way.....

You can't do that in Thailand and you can't do that in your home country.....

How to win friends and influence people ?

[Berkshire]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

[h90]

A 100% owned Thai Ltd company pays exactly the same fees and taxes as one with a foreign shareholder even with a 49% holding there are no additional foreigners fees or taxes

You don't need to be a shareholder but by your own words you invested a lot of money in 100% Thai company with no valuable assets assets and rely on commission only ?

As I said getting stranger and stranger

I don't want to delve into more details but my own business experience has confirmed that running a 100% Thai company is far better option than any foreign involvement especially when dealing with unofficial rules, try to rent or buy a product speaking Thai or English and you will notice the price differences, you might have different business domain then mine but at least in my domain 100% Thai is far better and secure option.

I "own" here a company with 49%. There is no, not at all, any difference to Thai owned....Not at customs, not a revenue department. Maybe even an advantage at the customer.

Thanks for confirming that

I think the problems happen when some Farang tries to mess around with the revenue department himself with lots of problems in his documents + the usual arrogance. Than of course, if he want everything perfect the revenue department is checking everything perfectly.....

I recall in a former job, where they forgot something (wrong documentations on exports) and the revenue department was ready to find some compromise, till the MD came. Rev. told that it is the law in Thailand to have that and the MD told her that the law in Thailand is wrong in a very aggressive way.....

You can't do that in Thailand and you can't do that in your home country.....

How to win friends and influence people ?

Try to make everything correct.

If mistakes happen, admit it and try to correct it. Be friendly....if laws are stupid, it was not the girl at the revenue department who made the law. When import something, declare the correct value and check the import tariff number first.

Never had any problems, never got asked for corruption money.....Sometimes the customs clearing agent pays a 500 Baht for customs don't open it. I told already "why?" because they can open it, everything correct. But I don't make a big case out of the 500 Baht. I had to deal with customs in Europe and it is far worse....

[Soutpeel]

A 100% owned Thai Ltd company pays exactly the same fees and taxes as one with a foreign shareholder even with a 49% holding there are no additional foreigners fees or taxes

You don't need to be a shareholder but by your own words you invested a lot of money in 100% Thai company with no valuable assets assets and rely on commission only ?

As I said getting stranger and stranger

I don't want to delve into more details but my own business experience has confirmed that running a 100% Thai company is far better option than any foreign involvement especially when dealing with unofficial rules, try to rent or buy a product speaking Thai or English and you will notice the price differences, you might have different business domain then mine but at least in my domain 100% Thai is far better and secure option.

I "own" here a company with 49%. There is no, not at all, any difference to Thai owned....Not at customs, not a revenue department. Maybe even an advantage at the customer.

Thanks for confirming that

I think the problems happen when some Farang tries to mess around with the revenue department himself with lots of problems in his documents + the usual arrogance. Than of course, if he want everything perfect the revenue department is checking everything perfectly.....

I recall in a former job, where they forgot something (wrong documentations on exports) and the revenue department was ready to find some compromise, till the MD came. Rev. told that it is the law in Thailand to have that and the MD told her that the law in Thailand is wrong in a very aggressive way.....

You can't do that in Thailand and you can't do that in your home country.....

How to win friends and influence people ?

Try to make everything correct.

If mistakes happen, admit it and try to correct it. Be friendly....if laws are stupid, it was not the girl at the revenue department who made the law. When import something, declare the correct value and check the import tariff number first.

Never had any problems, never got asked for corruption money.....Sometimes the customs clearing agent pays a 500 Baht for customs don't open it. I told already "why?" because they can open it, everything correct. But I don't make a big case out of the 500 Baht. I had to deal with customs in Europe and it is far worse....

The one thing i have learned working in multiple countries which are not my own, going in guns blazing up against "officals" will get you no where and more than likely cause even more problems

[Robert24]

I'm not surprised as to what you describe. It's called multiplier effects in economics. Same when you start up and create jobs you will see the opposite effect from what you have created by closing your business in Thailand.

The root cause to this is more bureaucracy, overregulation and red tape. But to be fair, many countries have issues with flexibility around foreign workers, whether it is here in Thailand, be it any European country or the US.

[benalibina]

If the only way to run your business or keep up with the competition is to break the law and cheat, then either it is not a very good business or you are not a very good businessman. Illegal business is the realm of criminals and there is a price to be paid if you get caught.

No price to pay...apart from a transfer to another part of the country and start anew...

[richard10365]

In the most simplest sense, jobs exist in a country to employ it’s citizens. And in no particular order, if the country can’t provide enough jobs, foreigners are allowed to start businesses according to that country’s rules or if there are no citizens (or not enough) who can do a particular job, foreigners will be allowed in to work.

When foreigners work in a country they are providing a service to that country while any business they are working in may be providing a service or a product for domestic or international consumption. This is a privilege and not a right and foreigners are expected to follow established labor laws which allow them to work.

Labor laws are different in every country and can be as broad as the World Trade Organizations (WTO) General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) rules or as specific as the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar which allow citizens of these countries to work in Thailand under a quota system without the 4 to 1 rule. ASEAN and the AEC agreement is also an example of agreements that shape labor laws.

If foreigners work according to established laws they are considered legal labor. When they work outside the law they are illegal and can be punished if caught.

Edited September 16, 2015 by richard10365

[Time Traveller]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

your racism and delusion is really shining here.

Is the Thai government providing a job for these 20 thai workers he has hired? Is any thai business persons providing a job for them? No.

It's the foreign entreprenuer who is showing more responsibility for those thai workers than any Thai government or business.

Freedom is not an entitlement granted by authorities. In fact, the OP never asked for any "entitlements" from the Thai government at all. He is only complaining about the endless roadblocks and hoops and obstacles he has to face to operate. It's not unreasonable for any person to lobby for free markets.

Without entrprenuers and businesses no one would have jobs.

[casualbiker]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

your racism and delusion is really shining here.

Is the Thai government providing a job for these 20 thai workers he has hired? Is any thai business persons providing a job for them? No.

It's the foreign entreprenuer who is showing more responsibility for those thai workers than any Thai government or business.

Freedom is not an entitlement granted by authorities. In fact, the OP never asked for any "entitlements" from the Thai government at all. He is only complaining about the endless roadblocks and hoops and obstacles he has to face to operate. It's not unreasonable for any person to lobby for free markets.

Without entrprenuers and businesses no one would have jobs.

One problem is he isn't lobbying for free markets. He's lobbying for a reduction in the paperwork required to employ foreign staff ( understandably) but he also mentioned that he couldn't be bothered or wasn't inclined to pay to stay legal reference WP and visa's for his employees. Even when talking about Cambodia it also seems that he's not interested in staying legal reference Cambodian WP initially suggesting that a "business" visa would suffice.

[Soutpeel]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

your racism and delusion is really shining here.

Is the Thai government providing a job for these 20 thai workers he has hired? Is any thai business persons providing a job for them? No.

It's the foreign entreprenuer who is showing more responsibility for those thai workers than any Thai government or business.

Freedom is not an entitlement granted by authorities. In fact, the OP never asked for any "entitlements" from the Thai government at all. He is only complaining about the endless roadblocks and hoops and obstacles he has to face to operate. It's not unreasonable for any person to lobby for free markets.

Without entrprenuers and businesses no one would have jobs.

The one who is delusional is you it seems....using your logic its perfectly acceptable to set up an illegal drugs factory because it employs Thai...

[Don Mega]

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

your racism and delusion is really shining here.

Is the Thai government providing a job for these 20 thai workers he has hired? Is any thai business persons providing a job for them? No.

It's the foreign entreprenuer who is showing more responsibility for those thai workers than any Thai government or business.

Freedom is not an entitlement granted by authorities. In fact, the OP never asked for any "entitlements" from the Thai government at all. He is only complaining about the endless roadblocks and hoops and obstacles he has to face to operate. It's not unreasonable for any person to lobby for free markets.

Without entrprenuers and businesses no one would have jobs.

One problem is he isn't lobbying for free markets. He's lobbying for a reduction in the paperwork required to employ foreign staff ( understandably) but he also mentioned that he couldn't be bothered or wasn't inclined to pay to stay legal reference WP and visa's for his employees. Even when talking about Cambodia it also seems that he's not interested in staying legal reference Cambodian WP initially suggesting that a "business" visa would suffice.

Amusingly more money would have been spent on border runs every month for the illegals than the proper visa and work permit.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Don Mega

[Soutpeel]

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

your racism and delusion is really shining here.

Is the Thai government providing a job for these 20 thai workers he has hired? Is any thai business persons providing a job for them? No.

It's the foreign entreprenuer who is showing more responsibility for those thai workers than any Thai government or business.

Freedom is not an entitlement granted by authorities. In fact, the OP never asked for any "entitlements" from the Thai government at all. He is only complaining about the endless roadblocks and hoops and obstacles he has to face to operate. It's not unreasonable for any person to lobby for free markets.

Without entrprenuers and businesses no one would have jobs.

One problem is he isn't lobbying for free markets. He's lobbying for a reduction in the paperwork required to employ foreign staff ( understandably) but he also mentioned that he couldn't be bothered or wasn't inclined to pay to stay legal reference WP and visa's for his employees. Even when talking about Cambodia it also seems that he's not interested in staying legal reference Cambodian WP initially suggesting that a "business" visa would suffice.

Amusingly more money would have been spent on border runs every month for the illegals than the proper visa and work permit.

Assuming it was a legitimate and legalised business of course, i have a feeling it wasnt.... on line business, foreigners, appears to be direct marketing etc what does that sound like ? Call center or possibly even a "boileroom" dodgy investments, by the sounds of things he wasnt flogging stuff on ebay

[Berkshire]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

your racism and delusion is really shining here.

Is the Thai government providing a job for these 20 thai workers he has hired? Is any thai business persons providing a job for them? No.

It's the foreign entreprenuer who is showing more responsibility for those thai workers than any Thai government or business.

Freedom is not an entitlement granted by authorities. In fact, the OP never asked for any "entitlements" from the Thai government at all. He is only complaining about the endless roadblocks and hoops and obstacles he has to face to operate. It's not unreasonable for any person to lobby for free markets.

Without entrprenuers and businesses no one would have jobs.

What an absolutely absurd accusation. It's people like you throwing around words like racism when it's not warranted that has diluted its meaning. All of these "roadblocks and hoops and obstacles" that you speak of are standard in any country that one chooses to do business in. It's the scammers and shysters like the OP (and it seems YOU) that have a problem complying with the law so they twist it around and blame others. There are plenty of successful foreigners in Thailand who are doing business the right way and have no problem complying with government regulations. What's your problem?

[duanebigsby]

Marco - You must ignore the plain in sight noobs. I totally understand you and wish u good luck. Somehow it would have been better for you to stay in Thailand but people that actually runs a proper business - thai or foreigner knows what u mean.

Don't forget this is Internet where anyone with a keyboard is an expert in everything and completely faultless. That's why people that has never owned, driven or been inside a Ferrari still say they are overpriced crap. But understand - It is thanks to people like you Internet exists!

Cheers mate!

The "noobs" criticizing the OP seem to be long time residents here.

Anyone who has run a "proper" business know Marco has not gotten visas, work permits, business licenses, paid taxes nor done anything properly.

I've never driven a Ferrari, I won't tell you they're crap, but I will tell you they're overpriced because they are useless unless you want to impress bimbos.

Who wants a car you'll never get out of 1st gear in the city, 2nd on the highway before you're well over the limit, and can see bugger all out of. Not crap, but impractical and a waste of money.

[marcofunny]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

You are completely missing the point.

He hired 20 Thais, who were mostly likely learning useful business skills.

The fact is the only reason the beaurocratic government red tape like this exists is that Government beaurocrats typically have no skills whatsoever. No viable method to make a living (unlike the workers he employed), so their only source of income is in levying taxes and fees on visas and permits.

That is, making the business man's life more difficult.

How can any foreign worker/business person legitimately say Business Visas and Work Permit laws are "supposed to be difficult" ?

Visas and Work Permits are not commandments from God. They only designed to impede business in order to enrich parasites.

Perhaps it is you missing the point. The Thai government has a responsibility to its citizens, not wily foreigners trying to make a quick buck. Thailand does have a system in place that brings in skilled workers and legitimate international businesses that will create jobs. Thailand had FDI in 2013 and 2014 of US$14.4 billion and US$12.8 billion, respectively. These figures most likely don't include dodgy characters like the OP trying to milk personal profits under the table. Why some of you guys think Thailand owes you some entitlement that most other countries wouldn't allow for their foreigners is beyond me.

I rarely believe in economic stats once i visited a town in southern Italy which has an official unemployment rate of 35% and 40% declared to be poor yet most of the residents drives Mercedes and BMWs and travel to the Maldives for vacations and just like those SPAs and karaokes parlors that make billions of cash under the table while they pretend to offer basic service, you are still fool and you believe some stats, read Chuvit's book to have clear idea how the real economy is run in this country, those stats are only fake and have nothing to do in reality, just like TAT s stat of high arrival numbers when most hotels are empty of tourists, the economy is like a very complicated factory machine you broke one part and the rest will

stop since the money flow will eventually ceases and the government economists will be scratching their heads about how to fix it, not even very advanced economies like USA or many G7 countries dare to disturb this natural flow, i haven't heard of any major immigration cracks in those nations.

my post was based on an accidental discovery that almost all of my former Thai employees did not find any new jobs since 9 months and how my two former Thai contractors closed down their businesses and a landlord unable to find any new tenants for his luxurious condos and offices, although my business were a drop in the ocean it did have some effects and considering the Exodus of other medium and small entrepreneurs it will definitely slow the economy to a great extent.

I agree that Thailand must move on the next stage but I think Thailand lacks the laws, infrastructure or skilled workers in the levels of Singapore, Japan or south Korea to move its economy to different industry, the current exodus I am currently witnessing particularly from the Koreans will bring more wealth to neighbor countries like Vietnam and Cambodia and in the future will create a very fierce competition between Thailand and them.

Edited September 17, 2015 by marcofunny