TIMMMMM Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I have never been to Panama this is why I was wondering what are the pros and cons of living there vs Thailand? Pros I found so are: Residency: “Panama friendly nations visa” is relatively easy to get. It gives you PR and Citizenship after 5 years. Language: Learning Spanish is easier than Thai. I know people who learned Spanish within a year being in their 50s. It’s almost impossible to do Thai in 1 year. Climate: Great weather year round Banking: Solid banks Quality of food is better – No GMO and No Pesticides Cons: Cost of living is way higher than in Thailand Safety isn’t that great, especially in Panama City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudRight Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Regardless of what one thinks about the ingredients in Panamanian food, the cuisine is inferior to Thai. Have you ever seen a Panamanian restaurant outside Panama? Edited September 17, 2015 by BudRight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldbear Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 My friend David has lived in Panama before and likes it. He wants to move back but is doing business in Nicaragua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHaa Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) pro: cheap cocaine cool hats Edited September 17, 2015 by HooHaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBrilliant Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Panama has it's own version of TV.... http://www.internations.org/panama-city-expats Looking at one guy's blog he's 'complaining' about paying $US8 (B286) for two beers in a high class bar in Panama City's main nightlife area.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Panama has it's own version of TV.... http://www.internations.org/panama-city-expats Looking at one guy's blog he's 'complaining' about paying $US8 (B286) for two beers in a high class bar in Panama City's main nightlife area.... PanamaVisa.com ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I have seen previous threads about Thailand vs Panama, but had not given them much consideration because I had no plans to leave Thailand. As per another thread, my opinion has changed, and my little resort is on the market. I want to build an 'eco-resort' for my next project. My plans were to build either in Lao PDR, Cambodia or Myanmar. Having investigated the land ownership, land lease and business ownership rules for foreigners in all 3 countries, I wasn't that 'wowed' with the restrictions. Then I went and looked at some websites about retiring/living/working and investing in ecotourism in Panama... http://internationalliving.com/countries/panama/investment/ This is just one of several websites which detail the incentives for foreigners not only to live in Panama, but to invest in business there, and for me - the great incentives to build my new eco-resort in Panama. - I can own land and pass it on to my heirs - I get immediate PR - I can own my business with no local partners - I get a range of tax incentives/discounts for my eco business. I'm going to investigate this further. To keep this on-topic, I will research the plus and minus points for Thailand and Panama, especially as it would affect me with starting a new and small eco business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I have seen previous threads about Thailand vs Panama, but had not given them much consideration because I had no plans to leave Thailand. As per another thread, my opinion has changed, and my little resort is on the market. I want to build an 'eco-resort' for my next project. My plans were to build either in Lao PDR, Cambodia or Myanmar. Having investigated the land ownership, land lease and business ownership rules for foreigners in all 3 countries, I wasn't that 'wowed' with the restrictions. Then I went and looked at some websites about retiring/living/working and investing in ecotourism in Panama... http://internationalliving.com/countries/panama/investment/ This is just one of several websites which detail the incentives for foreigners not only to live in Panama, but to invest in business there, and for me - the great incentives to build my new eco-resort in Panama. - I can own land and pass it on to my heirs - I get immediate PR - I can own my business with no local partners - I get a range of tax incentives/discounts for my eco business. I'm going to investigate this further. To keep this on-topic, I will research the plus and minus points for Thailand and Panama, especially as it would affect me with starting a new and small eco business. My understanding on the PR is that you only get it if you buy a propety to the value of USD 200k or more its not immediate, but on the basis of investment Edited September 17, 2015 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Don't forget the property tax, and with permanent residency the income tax on world wide income (which includes pension, capital gains, dividend, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailanddogerator Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 yes panama is a dream and this is why we are all living there <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This is from that URL that I posted about investing in tourism businesses: With a minimum investment of $50,000 anywhere in Panama’s interior, you receive: A 20-year exemption of any import taxes due on materials, furniture, equipment, and vehicles A 20-year exemption on real estate taxes for all assets of the enterprise An exemption from any tax levied for the use of airports and piers Accelerated depreciation for real estate assets of 10% per year. And if you start up a tourism-related business in one of the specially designated tourist zones, you can also receive a 15-year exemption on your income taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loptr Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I've spent quite a bit of time in Panama, Costa Rica and Colombia... Nothing wrong with living in Panama, except for a few basic things... First, there are only around 3.5 million people in the entire country... Not a lot of people around unless you are in Panama City... Imported goods are expensive and since very little is made in Panama, everything from food to furniture is costly... You may not be able to find certain goods you are accustomed to using... Panama does not issue their own currency and uses the USD as it's official currency... Price controls on goods were introduced some time ago due to the rise in the USD on the world FX market and caused the price on imported goods to sky rocket and shortages ensued... Being tied to the USD will also have an inflationary effect on assets until the USD normalizes or crashes... There is not a lot to do in Panama... Boredom is a problem with expats... If you think Thailand is a cultural wasteland, you will not like Panama... Corruption is rife in the government and police force... If you want something done, you have to grease the works... Nothing new for a seasoned Thai expat... Outside Panama City, being able to speak Espanol is a necessity... Crime is an issue within Panama in all forms; kidnappings, extortion, credit card / ATM fraud, violent crime... It is a latin country, so expect the machista attitude amongst men... Having said the above, Panama made the my top 5 places to live once I left the USA... Thailand was number 1 on the list and I'm still here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishman1 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I know friends who live there and love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fey Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 This is from that URL that I posted about investing in tourism businesses: With a minimum investment of $50,000 anywhere in Panama’s interior, you receive: A 20-year exemption of any import taxes due on materials, furniture, equipment, and vehicles A 20-year exemption on real estate taxes for all assets of the enterprise An exemption from any tax levied for the use of airports and piers Accelerated depreciation for real estate assets of 10% per year. And if you start up a tourism-related business in one of the specially designated tourist zones, you can also receive a 15-year exemption on your income taxes. just a word of caution investing in foreign countries is a fool's parade for most people, especially if you know nobody and are just moving in on a whim. have you been successful doing this in the past? you mentioned you had a resort going, why is it being sold? look at jon mcafee in costa rica. the minute anyone discovered he had cash he was immediately targeted by local politicians and corrupt police. he found himself crouching in tall weeds with a semi-auto mag rifle trying to get police off the property. and he just wanted to hide out, not do business. lots of these south american type places don't leave you alone like they would in asia so it's not easy to fly under the radar. the personal boundries your used to are not there and business/personal stuff is meshed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 have you been successful doing this in the past? you mentioned you had a resort going, why is it being sold? I have built 4 successful and profitable small hotels in Phuket since 2002 My desire to sell was originally because I wanted to 'relax' - but darn! I just can't stop working, it is so much fun My plan, (as with moving to any new and unknown environment), would be to rent for a year, learn the language, understand the culture, recognise the risks and only commit funds that I am prepared to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIMMMMM Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 From what I have heard Panama is the safest of all CA & SA countries. It has its share of Latino style crime but not to the extent of its neighbours. Banking is more stable than in Thailand. For anyone who "successfully" did business in Thailand Panama should be walk in the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 From what I have heard Panama is the safest of all CA & SA countries. It has its share of Latino style crime but not to the extent of its neighbours. Banking is more stable than in Thailand. For anyone who "successfully" did business in Thailand Panama should be walk in the park. "Banking is more stable than Thailand" oh do please elaborate on this "statement of fact " In what ways is banking unstable in Thailand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurgos Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Better dig out the atlas and spend a few minutes googling info. The mcafee case was in Belize, not in costa rica. neither of these places or panama are in South America, so not sure how they fit in with your "south american type places" generalization. They are all totally different. Belize, for one, is English speaking! This is from that URL that I posted about investing in tourism businesses: With a minimum investment of $50,000 anywhere in Panama’s interior, you receive: A 20-year exemption of any import taxes due on materials, furniture, equipment, and vehicles A 20-year exemption on real estate taxes for all assets of the enterprise An exemption from any tax levied for the use of airports and piers Accelerated depreciation for real estate assets of 10% per year. And if you start up a tourism-related business in one of the specially designated tourist zones, you can also receive a 15-year exemption on your income taxes. just a word of caution investing in foreign countries is a fool's parade for most people, especially if you know nobody and are just moving in on a whim. have you been successful doing this in the past? you mentioned you had a resort going, why is it being sold? look at jon mcafee in costa rica. the minute anyone discovered he had cash he was immediately targeted by local politicians and corrupt police. he found himself crouching in tall weeds with a semi-auto mag rifle trying to get police off the property. and he just wanted to hide out, not do business. lots of these south american type places don't leave you alone like they would in asia so it's not easy to fly under the radar. the personal boundries your used to are not there and business/personal stuff is meshed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurgos Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 You say, "there is not a lot to do in Panama... Boredom is a problem with expats..." Sorry not buying this, what about golf, tennis, scuba diving, sailing, deep sea fishing, island hopping around Bocas del Toro, shopping, restaurants, for a start..... you sound like the type who sits around waiting for stuff to happen, rather than seizing the day....repeat to yourself 100 times each morning, "carpe diem, carpe diem.... I've spent quite a bit of time in Panama, Costa Rica and Colombia... Nothing wrong with living in Panama, except for a few basic things... First, there are only around 3.5 million people in the entire country... Not a lot of people around unless you are in Panama City... Imported goods are expensive and since very little is made in Panama, everything from food to furniture is costly... You may not be able to find certain goods you are accustomed to using... Panama does not issue their own currency and uses the USD as it's official currency... Price controls on goods were introduced some time ago due to the rise in the USD on the world FX market and caused the price on imported goods to sky rocket and shortages ensued... Being tied to the USD will also have an inflationary effect on assets until the USD normalizes or crashes... There is not a lot to do in Panama... Boredom is a problem with expats... If you think Thailand is a cultural wasteland, you will not like Panama... Corruption is rife in the government and police force... If you want something done, you have to grease the works... Nothing new for a seasoned Thai expat... Outside Panama City, being able to speak Espanol is a necessity... Crime is an issue within Panama in all forms; kidnappings, extortion, credit card / ATM fraud, violent crime... It is a latin country, so expect the machista attitude amongst men... Having said the above, Panama made the my top 5 places to live once I left the USA... Thailand was number 1 on the list and I'm still here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 ... and then of course, there are other Central American countries that also offer investment incentives. I started reading about what Panama has to offer the small investor... and then I started reading about Nicaragua. Anyone care to comment/compare Nicaragua with Thailand? They seem to be going to head to head with Panama as to what incentives they can offer in the invest tourism sector. Trying to keep this thread related to Thailand, I must comment on how little Thailand offers the small, foreign investor. For larger companies, there are BOI incentives. But even those incentives pale into insignificance (IMHO) when compared to Panama, Nicaragua etc. I'm putting together a spreadsheet that compares some of these countries against what is on offer by ASEAN countries. Incentives such as: - Foreign ownership of land allowed (with no local partner?) - Foreign ownership of business (with no local partner) - Tax and import/export incentives - Incentives to employ local labour, (as opposed to enforcement to employ local labour) - Availability of pretty and willing ladies, Hang on! that goes in my other spreadsheet Anyone care to add important items to compare on my spreadsheet? Although I love south-east Asia, the investment incentives for small investors from countries in this region do not compare well with some countries in Central America. My difficulty is actually becoming aware of some countries that offer foreign land ownership and other investment incentives - I was unable to find a comprehensive list on Google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I used to read panamaforum.com and then it turned into sounding just like the whiners on Thaivisa. Amazing how the grass is always greener. The same whines at Panamaforum would just have well as been on Thaivisa, no matter where you are, when you are in a developing nation, the same complaints about corruption, litter, laziness of the people etc. comes to light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMedic Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If I had to do it all over again, I would have picked Panama or Colombia. Yes, they all have their problems. Police aren't the best, there's always BS in the government etc......But for me personally, being fluent in Spanish already would have made my move easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dddave Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I had a friend who was posted in Nicaragua for two years by the NGO he works for in the mid 2000's...said it was the most frightening place he had ever lived, places which include Mali, Ghana and Senegal in Africa, several Mid-East postings and Pakistan. He had an armed, former police officer as a driver and there were many places that driver didn't dare go. Not a very good recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fey Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 have you been successful doing this in the past? you mentioned you had a resort going, why is it being sold? I have built 4 successful and profitable small hotels in Phuket since 2002 My desire to sell was originally because I wanted to 'relax' - but darn! I just can't stop working, it is so much fun My plan, (as with moving to any new and unknown environment), would be to rent for a year, learn the language, understand the culture, recognise the risks and only commit funds that I am prepared to lose. Dont businesses have to be 51% thai owned? Are you thai? Or did you find a trustworthy partner while here that worked out without undue problems? That would be the first time I've heard about a foreigner/thai business that worked out financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrymeier99 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 A German friend living in Costa Rica for about 20 years. I visited him a few years ago, Costa Rica is a very nice Country an easy to invest there. My buddy has a small bungalow complex, making sightseeing and restored furniture. Costa Rica is a safe country with no military and easy to live than other Central American countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill1369 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Try Costa Rica - safer and many speak English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurgos Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 We must have a different definition of "safe"...mine doesn't include kidnapping, car-jacking, armed robbery! http://costarica.usembassy.gov/uscitizen/the-threat-from-crime2.html Try Costa Rica - safer and many speak English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zierf1 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I've researched some of these countries and I'm shocked at the high prices. They say $500 a month for a place to stay is cheap?!? Definitely not where I'm from. I can get an apartment in my home town for $300 a month, so that is obviously not very impressive to me. $50-$100 a month is what I'm looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fey Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I've researched some of these countries and I'm shocked at the high prices. They say $500 a month for a place to stay is cheap?!? Definitely not where I'm from. I can get an apartment in my home town for $300 a month, so that is obviously not very impressive to me. $50-$100 a month is what I'm looking at. It's not as cheap as se asia for a foreigner either for food or housing. I would peg costs as lying somewhere between the usa and se asia. The cheap myth for these areas is a product of the discrepancy in income between the usa and mexico so close together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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