Yingluck & former ministers to pay half trillion baht compensation

[lostoday]

I honestly don't believe that she personally took anything out of the system other than the trips abroad and the jollies that she had.

She always stuck me as a follower rather than a leader and I also believe that she had no idea of what was really going on simply because nobody told her.

She was always a de jure PM whilst Thaksin was the de facto PM

Wikipedia says https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=de+jure+de+facto&oq=de+jure+definition&gs_l=serp.1.0.0i71l8.0.0.0.14597.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.serp..0.0.0.fwAaH5Gawrc

De jure (/dɨ ˈdʒʊəriː/, /deɪ-/; Classical Latin: de iúre [dɛ ˈjuːrɛ]) is an expression that means "of right, by right, according to law" (literally "from law"), as contrasted with de facto, which means "in fact, in reality" (literally "from fact").

You are like a flea at the bottom of Mount Everest (Yingluck). How or why do you think your opinion holds any merit? That Thailand allows you and I to breath the same air as her is still kind of a mystery to me. No disrespect but gosh it is like saying you know what the virgin Mary was thinking when she found out she was pregnant.

Do YOU think that your opinion holds any more merit than mine?

As for disrespect that is exactly what your post is.

Do you really believe that Yingluck with NO political experience at all could start in the top position (PM) and run the country from day 1?

Even her brother Thaksin called her his clone.

Yingluck and I share the same air as we are both inThailand and both legally too.

If you honestly and truly believe that Yingluck was the de facto pm you have my pity FWIW as you don't seem to have had a clue what happened while she was in charge of the country.

Yes I do. I know the family. But my point was no mere mortal (including myself) is in a position to know what is really going on with her and the family. They breath different air was a metaphor.

Edited September 18, 2015 by lostoday

[ddavidovsky]

The actions of this government are beginning to make Thaksin's time in power seem like Camelot. Let's see how long they can get away with it.

[easybullet3]

The Junta should have frozen all their assets from day 1. Any ill gotten gains have been squirreled 'offshore' a long time ago

The Shins life is a giant game of snakes and ladders. Award yourself a countrywide telecoms monopoly, yipeee! Get fined half a trillion after an ill thought out raid on the state coffers, oooops!

Maybe she can borrow some from her brother? It was all his idea anyway.

i'm a bit confused.

Did she gain from the rice scheme? (i mean: did she steal money from the pot) ?

if she didnt, then why on earth does she need to pay out of her own pocket ??

as much as I am against the shinawartas, I just dont think its fair to make her pay (from her own money) unless she stole or gained.

- Please correct me if I am wrong on facts

in most countries, if someone makes false promises, then the money comes from the Government Budget... and there may be some sort of 'no confidence vote'

or they lose the next election.

but I never heard of anyone paying out their own pocket for lies while in office.

[AnnieT]

The Junta should have frozen all their assets from day 1. Any ill gotten gains have been squirreled 'offshore' a long time ago

The Shins life is a giant game of snakes and ladders. Award yourself a countrywide telecoms monopoly, yipeee! Get fined half a trillion after an ill thought out raid on the state coffers, oooops!

Maybe she can borrow some from her brother? It was all his idea anyway.

i'm a bit confused.

Did she gain from the rice scheme? (i mean: did she steal money from the pot) ?

if she didnt, then why on earth does she need to pay out of her own pocket ??

as much as I am against the shinawartas, I just dont think its fair to make her pay (from her own money) unless she stole or gained.

- Please correct me if I am wrong on facts

in most countries, if someone makes false promises, then the money comes from the Government Budget... and there may be some sort of 'no confidence vote'

or they lose the next election.

but I never heard of anyone paying out their own pocket for lies while in office.

If her name was anything other than Shinawatra, I doubt the good General would want to establish a precedent for holding a Prime Minister responsible for a plan not working out as intended, or a subsidy that did not show a profit (there has never been one) due to corruption among the downstream participants.

Still, the precedent set, come the day, perhaps the good General may find himself paying the piper for the tune he was instructed to choose. What goes around, comes around.

[englishoak]

This is all going to end very very badly.

[elliss]

We'll wait and see what happens here.

Big brother will surely come to the party!!!

Where will this money end up .

In who,s accounts.?

Nothing changes , only headlines .

Edited September 18, 2015 by elliss

[bangrak]

If her name was anything other than Shinawatra, I doubt the good General would want to establish a precedent for holding a Prime Minister responsible for a plan not working out as intended, or a subsidy that did not show a profit (there has never been one) due to corruption among the downstream participants.

Still, the precedent set, come the day, perhaps the good General may find himself paying the piper for the tune he was instructed to choose. What goes around, comes around.

When she was not a Shinawatra, she would never ever have become PM, and the self-serving 'Thaksinomics' rice scam probably never (re-)introduced!

[bangrak]

This is all going to end very very badly.

For the Shins and their tribe? I truly hope so!

[bangrak]

They ain't got that much. Like 15 billion bucks innit?

One of 'the vehicles' used to hide the huge family's wealth outside Thailand is located on the Caiman island and called 'Amply rich' (that name only...!), the Shins own it, and I wonder how many Billions of USD are already dissimulated inside that one only...

All major business in Thailand funnel their offshore businesses through these types of vehicles.

You think thaksin discovered something no one else did in Thailand?

Why am I not surprised? The PTP/UDD 'logic' again, the others did it, so we can do it too, and even more when we want (2010 // 2008)... So, for you, there's no problem to rob your country blind, when others do it inside their(!) businesses, and you do it too, also with state funds, as the country's PM on top of it?!

[englishoak]

This is all going to end very very badly.

For the Shins and their tribe? I truly hope so!

LOL you think it ends there ?

Cant see further than your screen can you ? bless

[off road pat]

The Junta should have frozen all their assets from day 1. Any ill gotten gains have been squirreled 'offshore' a long time ago

What about freezing the assets of the ultrabillionaire ultracorrupted military who have been plundering Thailand for decades, leaving this country as one of the poorest and miserable on the planet, where few men in uniform are amongstthe richest people in the planet and 99% of the population is starving to death.

No exaggeration there then!

In response to max72's post, referring to Thailand as one of the poorest and most miserable countries on this planet is just plain babble, and utter nonsense. 99% of the population is starving to death? What planet are you living on? Do you actually live in Thailand? I doubt 1% of the population is hungry. The people here eat very well. The soil is some of the most fertile I have seen, and I have traveled far and wide throughout the countryside, and rarely have I seen a hungry person. Most eat 5 meals a day! Thailand is relatively prosperous, by third world standards, with an average per capita GDP of nearly $5,800US, per year. In comparison to Bihar state in India, which is about $500US. Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, and Assam are slightly higher than that. Somalia, Burundi, Congo, Niger, the Central African Republic, and Malawi have per capita annual incomes of $1000US or less. Thailand has nearly 6 times that.

And in terms of his completely ridiculous reference to Thailand as being one of the worlds most miserable places, I take absolute exception to that nonsense. I find most people here to be quite content, fulfilled, living good lives, and enjoying themselves immensely. They are not dealing with much disease, warfare, pestilence, or plague. They are living decent lives. Sure, their lives could be better, and definitely their government could be better, but it depends on what measurement you are using to define quality of life. In the US the people are making more money, but the level of fulfillment appears to be a fraction of what it is here, and most people I know are disenchanted, malcontent, and frustrated with their lives. Most, not all of course.

If you are living in Thailand, I suggest you get out more, and travel around. If you are not living here, I suggest you discuss subjects, of which you have some direct knowledge.

Well said, !!! Couldn't have said it better....

Best regards....

[peteregion]

Hello All the Experts here.

This is not a case of whether YL made any money out of it. It is that she was negligent in her duty as a Prime Minister overseeing the scheme to let it deteriorate to such a big loss for the State.

There was already a precedent where a senior government official was held negligent and made to compensate the State for losses to the State.

Go read the case by the government of Thailand of Prime Minister Thaksin Sinawatra against Roengchai Marakanon, former head of the Bank of Thailand during the economic crisis of 1997, in a negligence liabilities of officials case where Roengchai was made to compensate the State.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I hope they jail all three until every baht is paid.

About time the Shinawats were hit where it hurts them most, in the pocket!.

Small change compared to what big brother swindled the country out of.

I guess he can write a cheque.

[Time Traveller]

Talk about burning bridges !!

If there was any evidence that the military is not looking for peace and reconciliation, it's this.

They already control the country, they make up their own laws to justify whatever they want to do (for national security of course) and jail whoever they want. The Shinawats are not even active anymore due to the military. They could have left the past and moved on. But instead they decided on this stupid one upmanship which is just for nothing other than make their opponents lose face. That money will never be recovered (because we all know how bankruptcy works) so what's the point?

But here's a tip. If the military go through with this, then they better never ever find themselves on the opposite side with roles reversed because of their own current spending schemes, which copy Thaksin's own old policies, the miltary themselves may have to answer for their actions against an even more embittered enemy.

Perhaps this is an indication that Thailand will never ever have elections agian and the military plan to maintain strict control forever.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Time Traveller

[HerbalEd]

There's no way in hell Yingluck and her cronies are ever going to be able to pay 500-billion baht (approx. 14 billion US dollars).

Thaksin himself isn't worth anywhere near that much money. According to multiple sources on the internet, Thaksin is worth approx. 1.6-billion US dollars, which is very very far away from 14-billion.

Edited September 18, 2015 by HerbalEd

[Time Traveller]

This is all going to end very very badly.

Seems like the military is trying to provoke war. What else could they possibly be trying to acheive with this exactly?

Humiliate the losers. Great strategy, it worked on Germany after World War One.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Time Traveller

[somo]

Not one bit of evidence exists that points at the Taksins stole 1 baht themselves or where the so called stolen money is - nothing. She is just accused of doing a lousy job which is true for most politicians and army generals posing as them. Nothing new about that. The present lot are also at it giving away loads of dosh to the villagers half of which is scammed before it arrives. There was a village meeting here last night on how to spend 500k the kind generals have donated to build a pond. The local politicians are busy carving it up and sure a pond will be built but for about 250k so where has the rest gone? This is happening all over Thailand so should the present Gov. be held accountable? It's just business as usual but at least whatever is scammed stays in the system but the continuing effect of the coup on Thailands economy is an absolute loss which is much worse.

it must be a hell of a pond if its costing 500k

a pond is basically a hole which would take a couple of hours with an excavator machine to dig and a plastic liner at the bottom ?

even with a filtration system ,500k is a rip off in a country where labourers get paid barely enough to eat

Are you stupid? It depends how big the pond is. Call it a lake if you like.

[somo]

But not to the poor farmers that it was intended to help.

The govt has spent more than it expects to receive for the rice.

Who did it give the money to? Farmers, rice mills, warehouses, trucking companies.

The money went into the economy.

Sure some of the dosh was redirected away from it's intended destination. That's what corruption does. But the money doesn't disappear it is spent/saved and so remains part of the economy. The damage to the economy caused by the coup however is a true loss.

[EnglishJohn]

This is all going to end very very badly.

Seems like the military is trying to provoke war. What else could they possibly be trying to acheive with this exactly?

Humiliate the losers. Great strategy, it worked on Germany after World War One.

We farang call it accountability. What you are suggesting is appeasement. We tried that at the start of WWII and the lesson we learned in the West is that if someone wants a war, they will find a reason no matter what.

Are you actually saying WWII was the fault of the Allies ?. True enough Hitler used it as a driving force. but do you seriously think WWII would not have happened otherwise ?. The fact that Germany lost was enough for him.

Go read some history books so you might learn from them. Hitler simply wanted Germany to be great again. He was a patriot in the extreme sense of the word. You can't even say that about the bogeyman and his cronies who are just greedy lowlife who only care about themselves.

[EnglishJohn]

But not to the poor farmers that it was intended to help.

The govt has spent more than it expects to receive for the rice.

Who did it give the money to? Farmers, rice mills, warehouses, trucking companies.

The money went into the economy.

Sure some of the dosh was redirected away from it's intended destination. That's what corruption does. But the money doesn't disappear it is spent/saved and so remains part of the economy. The damage to the economy caused by the coup however is a true loss.

OMG you are justifying corruption.

SHAME ON YOU. I would not believe such disgusting comments if I did not read them directly.

You people belong in some primitive medieval village. You were born about 500 years after your time.

[Lite Beer]

Yingluck may get Bt500 bn bill over rice losses: Prayut
NATTHAPAT PHROMKAEW
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- DAMAGES to be sought from former PM Yingluck Shinawatra over her government's rice-pledging scheme may exceed Bt500 billion, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.

He said the estimated loss of Bt500 billion was "just an initial figure", adding the final amount would depend on the quality of rice in government stocks.

"If the rice cannot be sold, the figure will be higher. If we can sell more, the loss will be lower," he told reporters.

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam said the civil claims would be finalised by two fact-finding committees of the Ministry of Commerce and Ministry of Finance by the end of this month.

After the panels complete their work, the case will be forwarded to Prime Minister Prayut for review, and then a government civil liability committee chaired by the comptroller-general will consider the final amount of damages to be sought from Yingluck.

Wissanu said that once a damages claim is made, the accused person normally is expected to counter-sue the government by bringing their case to the Administrative Court within 30 days challenging the government's claim.

He added that if the accused person, in this case Yingluck, did not counter-sue, their assets equivalent to the amount finalised by the civil liability committee would be seized.

In response to speculation that the civil liability committee will seek damages of Bt500 billion from Yingluck and Bt10 billion from her former commerce minister Boonsong Teriyapirom, Wissanu declined to elaborate.

Meanwhile, Deputy Premier and Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said relevant cases were being reviewed by the court.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-may-get-Bt500-bn-bill-over-rice-losses-Pr-30269128.html

-- The Nation 2015-09-19

[Thai at Heart]

But not to the poor farmers that it was intended to help.

The govt has spent more than it expects to receive for the rice.

Who did it give the money to? Farmers, rice mills, warehouses, trucking companies.

The money went into the economy.

Sure some of the dosh was redirected away from it's intended destination. That's what corruption does. But the money doesn't disappear it is spent/saved and so remains part of the economy. The damage to the economy caused by the coup however is a true loss.

OMG you are justifying corruption.

SHAME ON YOU. I would not believe such disgusting comments if I did not read them directly.

You people belong in some primitive medieval village. You were born about 500 years after your time.

No, it is an explanation to all the fools on here harping on about her apparently stealing the world from the Thai people.

In terms of damages, the state has to pay it's debt. Just like it has to pay all debts. So the money hasnt been lost from an economic sense.

It has been borrowed and spent into the economy. It had a short term multiplier which will have contributed to taxes also. Presumably sales of booze went up some which weren't Lao kao or cars got bought for example.

So I await her lawyers to go to town on the logic of punishing a loss making govt project which incurs a debt.

They have a fiscal deficit. Everything they do incurs a debt. Just paying prayuths phone bill could be to some considered a waste of taxpayers money.

I presume prayuth gave himself a payrise when he got his new job.

[Thai at Heart]

They ain't got that much. Like 15 billion bucks innit?

One of 'the vehicles' used to hide the huge family's wealth outside Thailand is located on the Caiman island and called 'Amply rich' (that name only...!), the Shins own it, and I wonder how many Billions of USD are already dissimulated inside that one only...

All major business in Thailand funnel their offshore businesses through these types of vehicles.

You think thaksin discovered something no one else did in Thailand?

Why am I not surprised? The PTP/UDD 'logic' again, the others did it, so we can do it too, and even more when we want (2010 // 2008)... So, for you, there's no problem to rob your country blind, when others do it inside their(!) businesses, and you do it too, also with state funds, as the country's PM on top of it?!

Totally false argument. One again. She ISN'T ACCUSED OF STEALING. I am sick of fools who can't read... She didn't take any govt money and rob the country blind.

The question is why are the shinawatra business setups scrutinised so closely while identical set ups from companies allied to the other side allowed to fly.

They are all robbing the country blind and concentrating the wealth into fewer hands.

At least in the USA the wealthy still have to fend for themselves in the market. In Thailand they just monopolise the whole damn thing.

[AGareth2]

bad precedent

not sure any gov't would put forward any public programmes under this rule

[waitforusalso]

I wish the good general well trying to defend this one to the civilised world on his upcoming trip to the UN

[BSJ]

Remember all those suitcases Yingluck took with her to France and other places? They could have been jammed packed full of money....but she had diplomatic immunity so no-one outside the inner circle would know! If that is right the money is in Litchenstein or the Caymans safely tucked away in a secret account by now.

[halloween]

General elections were held in Thailand on 6 February 2005. With a turnout of 60.7 percent, the Thai Rak Thai Party (Thais Love Thais Party) of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra won a landslide victory. Out of 500 seats in the House of Representatives, Thaksin's party won 375 seats.

2006 his party was outlawed and he was barred from political activity.

Do you remember why a party with such a big win had to call elections for 14 months later? Do you remember the blatant abuses of office, including the B9 billion loan from KTB, and the illegal attempts to force a result from the 2006 election which saw the party banned?

[lostoday]

General elections were held in Thailand on 6 February 2005. With a turnout of 60.7 percent, the Thai Rak Thai Party (Thais Love Thais Party) of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra won a landslide victory. Out of 500 seats in the House of Representatives, Thaksin's party won 375 seats.

2006 his party was outlawed and he was barred from political activity.

Do you remember why a party with such a big win had to call elections for 14 months later? Do you remember the blatant abuses of office, including the B9 billion loan from KTB, and the illegal attempts to force a result from the 2006 election which saw the party banned?

Banned by the minority opposition. Ya I remember that. I thoroughly understand. If you can't win at the polls what's a fellow to do? Do you remember the last time that Thaksin family lost an election? It's slipped my mind.

Edited September 19, 2015 by lostoday

[KMA]

That's $14,321,621,100 US dollars. Does she have that much?

Not if your number is correct, $14 billion? According to Forbes richest list she has a net worth of around $17 million. So no she and the other former ministers probably could never repay that amount. So it looks like that number is just token wow number for thais to try and wrap there head around

[scorecard]

Remember all those suitcases Yingluck took with her to France and other places? They could have been jammed packed full of money....but she had diplomatic immunity so no-one outside the inner circle would know! If that is right the money is in Litchenstein or the Caymans safely tucked away in a secret account by now.

Doesn't need to by shipped out in suitcases.

Her cronies will know a dozen different methods to move / transfer large amounts of funds by non mainstream bank systems, and at the same time avoiding money laundering checks.