These service additives - required or not?

[topt]

VP Plus Diesel Injector Cleaner and Engine Treatment - pictures below.

I meant to ask before when I first realised what they were on my Triton diesel service. The garage actually first added them 1 year ago but they were not on any previous service invoices. It may have been lost in translation but they seem to be claiming that they are required after every oil change.

Are either of them necessary - especially every 6 months (about 10-12k km)? 400 baht plus vat for each.......

[Pib]

Toyota does the same thing. It's just part of their service package pricing. You could probably get them to not do/delete the two pictured additives, but then they might not guarantee whatever service they provide.

It's kinda like a lot of the hospital annual exam/checkup packages....they almost always want to add in a chest x-ray and EKG which are not needed yearly, but it's just part of their "service package" so to speak. However, but, the wife and I don't just take they annual checkup package anymore since we know an annual x-ray, EKG and some of the blood tests are not needed yearly. So, we first talk to the doc, he then writes out a blood-work order for X-amount of truly important/needed blood tests...we don't do the x-ray or EKG except maybe every 3 to 5 years, and the annual checkup cost come in at around two-thirds of their "package deal." Hospitals are businesses also...in it to make a profit also....and package deals makes good money/profits for them.

Are the additives needed--no. Do they hurt--no. If I was only going to do one occasionally I would use the fuel injector cleaner. But oil additive to a quality oil is just not needed....and oil additive to a low-quality oil is not going to turn it into a high quality oil.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Pib

[Gonsalviz]

The injector cleaner, yes. Oil additive, no.

[topt]

The injector cleaner, yes. Oil additive, no.

Thanks but can you give any more explanation as to why?

As mentioned neither was added for the first 2+ years of services?

[Gary A]

I don't allow them to sell me any additives. There is a HUGE markup on those products so some dealers do try. You can buy those products yourself if you want them. I do put a bottle of injector cleaner through mine once in a while but not every tank or even each service.

[keeniau96]

I never added any such to the diesel engine on my sailboat. Never met any sailors who did but these were smaller 4-cylinder engines, typically around 60-120 HP.

[streboris]

Injector cleaner is preventative maintenance. Think of it like cleaning your teeth. If you clean them often, they are easy to clean. If you don't clean them they develop a hard to remove layer that holds more dirt.

Oil additive would make me question the quality of oil they are using...

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[DavisH]

Injector cleaner is preventative maintenance. Think of it like cleaning your teeth. If you clean them often, they are easy to clean. If you don't clean them they develop a hard to remove layer that holds more dirt.

Oil additive would make me question the quality of oil they are using...

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The only time I noticed and effect of injector cleaning is then the dealer offered to remove the injectors and clean them manually. This was a 1998 honda city and the effect was quite noticeable on performance - maybe my injectors were grotty.

Honda put these additives in and will do so without asking you. One needs to specify not to add these products - they are not even OEM products. These additives can add over 1000 baht to the bill. After 200K kms on my civic I didn't even bother with the dealer and just go to the local garage that deals mostly with hondas.

[mogandave]

Are they included in the manufacturer's maintenance schedule?

[rakman]

The only thing I'd be wanting to add to the fuel would be a water absorbing additive since diesel fuel is hygroscopic. Deisel fuel and water can make for some nasty alge growth. And SEA has a lot of humidity.

Most diesel vehicles have good fuel filters and usually a water trap some where along the fuel system.

Injector spray patterns can become clogged at some point. Injector cleaner additives probably don't do much.

[MYKTHEMIN]

injector cleaners work very well and do clean them, and oil additives do no harm at all.

[topt]

The only thing I'd be wanting to add to the fuel would be a water absorbing additive since diesel fuel is hygroscopic. Deisel fuel and water can make for some nasty alge growth. And SEA has a lot of humidity.

Most diesel vehicles have good fuel filters and usually a water trap some where along the fuel system.

Injector spray patterns can become clogged at some point. Injector cleaner additives probably don't do much.

injector cleaners work very well and do clean them, and oil additives do no harm at all.

Injector cleaners do nothing unless you use them from the start. Ultra sound is the only way to clean them.

Modern oil needs nothing...

So 2 against one for not using injector cleaners......... How do they add this anyway?

I cannot see the benefit to the engine treatment product especially as there is so little. Also as mentioned none of this was used (or did not appear on the invoices) for the first couple of years of services but has now been on the last 3.

[topt]

Are they included in the manufacturer's maintenance schedule?

No idea but doubtful as not used for first 2+ years of services only on the last year - 3 services.

[streboris]

The only thing I'd be wanting to add to the fuel would be a water absorbing additive since diesel fuel is hygroscopic. Deisel fuel and water can make for some nasty alge growth. And SEA has a lot of humidity.

Most diesel vehicles have good fuel filters and usually a water trap some where along the fuel system.

Injector spray patterns can become clogged at some point. Injector cleaner additives probably don't do much.

injector cleaners work very well and do clean them, and oil additives do no harm at all.

Injector cleaners do nothing unless you use them from the start. Ultra sound is the only way to clean them.

Modern oil needs nothing...

So 2 against one for not using injector cleaners......... How do they add this anyway?

I cannot see the benefit to the engine treatment product especially as there is so little. Also as mentioned none of this was used (or did not appear on the invoices) for the first couple of years of services but has now been on the last 3.

2 against 1 for not using?

One said injector cleaner not effective if not using from the start... i read that it works if you use it from the start.

Which in your case, you would be

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[MYKTHEMIN]

Injector cleaners do nothing unless you use them from the start. Ultra sound is the only way to clean them.

Modern oil needs nothing...

Sorry but you do not have a clue.

[Ace of Pop]

So Dazzle us with your reasons why its needed.No need to be Sorry.

[mogandave]

We would add ATF (new or used) to diesel to clean injectors. I don't know that it worked, but a number of guys I respected swore by it.

For sticky/noisy valves in gas-burners, my dad swore by Casite Tune-Up, poured right down the carburetor. Smoked to beat hell while you poured it down, but it seemed to work.

I think there are effective injector cleaners, but I don’t think you mix them in the tank.

[phutoie2]

Injector cleaners do nothing unless you use them from the start. Ultra sound is the only way to clean them.

Modern oil needs nothing...

Sorry but you do not have a clue.

Tell all, mon ami.........open ears 'ere........

He's right, your motoring know how is decades out of date, All you do is clog up this motoring forum with smart arse comments. Retire now, gracefully to your front porch in Ubon Noclue.

[topt]

So 2 against one for not using injector cleaners......... How do they add this anyway?

I cannot see the benefit to the engine treatment product especially as there is so little. Also as mentioned none of this was used (or did not appear on the invoices) for the first couple of years of services but has now been on the last 3.

2 against 1 for not using?

One said injector cleaner not effective if not using from the start... i read that it works if you use it from the start.

Which in your case, you would be

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Sorry but not sure how you read that? I said (and the repetition must be boring to others), that they did not use for the first couple of years - unless you mean a fresh oil change is a new start.......

I am still not clear where this is added by the way............

[Pib]

Injector cleaner is put in the fuel tank.

The Engine Treatment goes in the oil.

[topt]

Injector cleaner is put in the fuel tank.

The Engine Treatment goes in the oil.

thanks

[stevenl]

Injector cleaners do nothing unless you use them from the start. Ultra sound is the only way to clean them.

Modern oil needs nothing...

Sorry but you do not have a clue.

Tell all, mon ami.........open ears 'ere........

He's right, your motoring know how is decades out of date, All you do is clog up this motoring forum with smart arse comments. Retire now, gracefully to your front porch in Ubon Noclue.

As with most posters, you have to know when to value his advice.

[canthai55]

Buying my first new FI car, I went to the service manager - asked what I should do different than a carb car.

Reply - use FI cleaner.

75,000 km had a factory recall for possible problem with head gasket. Asked the dealership to allow me to see the cylinder head before it was reinstalled. Valve stems and combustion chambers clean as new. Piston tops and valve faces colored black but no deposits or buildup anywhere.

Made me a believer.

[mogandave]

My barber told me frequent haircuts will make my hair healthier.

[MYKTHEMIN]

I will explain my position, before I retired i ran a very successful engine building company, for race engines winning numerous championships, I am a multiple British saloon car champion so know what I am talking about through experience. We spent months of work on engine dynos evaluating oils and additives, they are well worth using as they can improve power and reduce wear. Diesel injection cleaners also work extremely well. so up 2 u!!!

[Ace of Pop]

Why do they have a Benzine Engine pictured for on the bottles for that catchpenny rubbish.?.Oil additives went away with Mollyslip 40 years ago. Clean the Injectors ?,..... just rev the balls of em daily, like their meant to be thrashed.Kids today, no bloody idea.!!!!.

[Pib]

Market an oil or fuel additive and people will buy it. Pretty much like cosmetics.

[Ace of Pop]

I will explain my position, before I retired i ran a very successful engine building company, for race engines winning numerous championships, I am a multiple British saloon car champion so know what I am talking about through experience. We spent months of work on engine dynos evaluating oils and additives, they are well worth using as they can improve power and reduce wear. Diesel injection cleaners also work extremely well. so up 2 u!!!

Think the OP is talking about his grocery getter, not a race car.

PS. What additive did you put in oil...?

Sardines.

[mogandave]

If automobile manufacturers could improve performance and reduce wear by adding a $10 can of treatment to the crankcase and or fuel tank, why would they not?

[Gary A]

Why do they have a Benzine Engine pictured for on the bottles for that catchpenny rubbish.?.Oil additives went away with Mollyslip 40 years ago. Clean the Injectors ?,..... just rev the balls of em daily, like their meant to be thrashed.Kids today, no bloody idea.!!!!.

That's interesting. My wife drove the old Nissan more than I did. She likes the truck better than the car because she feels safer. Every so often she would complain that once in a while the engine would stutter a little. I would take it out on the highway and blow the carbon out of it. No more complaints for another month or so.