Bars/restaurants for sale and restrictions on trade

[PostmanPat]

In answer to the poster incredulous about midnight closing. The answer right now is that EVERYTHING is being forced to close at midnight. So, in effect, there are no "night clubs" as such open in Chiang Mai.

Perhaps "night clubs" will become known as "late evening clubs" or something similar.

Can promise you, if you happen to be driving along the moat towards Loi Kroh, past Spicy, past Jacks Van, past Lucky Bar ( all well known very late nightspots ) its like a ghost town. Like one of those Buddha days where everything stays closed for religious reasons.

Edited September 22, 2015 by PostmanPat

[PostmanPat]

before people only went to Fabrique and the other clubs when all the bars closed at midnight. I was there last time about 2 months ago and left around 3.30am and it didn't look like they were closing soon. Same for Infiniti.

The clue is in the expression "two months ago".......!!!!!

[LivinLOS]

before people only went to Fabrique and the other clubs when all the bars closed at midnight.

Er.. which is precisely why now they are being closed at midnight, they are going out of business.

I was there last time about 2 months ago and left around 3.30am and it didn't look like they were closing soon. Same for Infiniti.

but you get that this midnight closing became firmer at about end of july / early august ??

[Chicog]

Lucky/Good Morning? That was always good for a lock in.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chicog

[Robert24]

ok thanks. I will be back in Chiang Mai this weekend. So I guess no clubbing then... They must indeed all have closed. Fabrique, Infitniti, Warm Up, Tawandaeng etc...

[Chiengmaijoe]

By the way, a quick look at the bar for sale that I mentioned as part of this post says it was reduced for a 'quick sale', from 3m to 2.5m baht. Any takers under the current circumstances?

[northernjohn]

I donot wish to change the topic or take it off track but I think the reason Chiang Mai is going through this is it is known as Red shirt country. The powers that be are just making it tough for business's there.They are sending a message that Chiang mai can and will be heavily policed. Bars are the easiest target for this action

I was thinking along those very lines. From all I have read on Thai Visa not exactly reliable a lot of times but it seems to say that the rest of Thailand has no immigration problems. Chiang Mai is the only one.

Then again there were problems when Yingluck was in power and we were still being ignored.

What I would like to know is how close are all these establishments in Bangkok every one talks about to schools? then again why not let them open up at 5:00 or 6:00.

[heybruce]

I don't personally hold the opinion that bars should close at midnight but if there is a law that says they must it should be a scandal that some trade outside of legal hours thanks to corruption. There aren't supposed to be bent cops sweating motorists for backhanders , and jet-ski thugs, and illegal land encroachments and eCigarettes, and all the rest. The last time I checked Thailand is not a colony of any foreign nation so sweaty blimps are not actually entitled to swill beer until 4AM cavorting with peasant gals or Burmese catamites. But to read these threads recently, which all soon divert quickly to subtle racism and Eurocentrism, that somehow it is their birthright, and somehow they are "better" than the busloads of Chinese newcomers.

"Why"? Perhaps it is not outside forces determined to "punish" CM but maybe there a a few decent leaders here who are determined to do the right thing and take the long term steps needed to eliminate corruption once and for all.

Except that has been the standard MO for the last 20 years or so..

And is still the MO is most of the (non Red) parts of the country..

So 'why here' and 'why now' seem valid questions no ?? I mean if they are also closing down Bangla Rd at 12pm and walking street at 12pm.. Then you could say it was new policy and being fairly implemented, agree with it or not, but selective implementation ?? That starts to get a 'is that fair' aspect.

Selective enforcement of the law--closing times are strictly enforced in the north and ignored in Bangkok, Pattaya, and other favored places. Naturally people are asking why.

[heybruce]

In answer to the poster incredulous about midnight closing. The answer right now is that EVERYTHING is being forced to close at midnight. So, in effect, there are no "night clubs" as such open in Chiang Mai.

Perhaps "night clubs" will become known as "late evening clubs" or something similar.

Can promise you, if you happen to be driving along the moat towards Loi Kroh, past Spicy, past Jacks Van, past Lucky Bar ( all well known very late nightspots ) its like a ghost town. Like one of those Buddha days where everything stays closed for religious reasons.

Equally dead at midnight in the Nimmanhamin area, with the possible, qualified exception of the soi 6 bars--Tawan Daeng, Infinity, etc. I'm not a fan of the soi 6 places and haven't checked for a few weeks, but I think Tawan Daeng is allowed to stay open until 1 a.m. I heard loud music coming from that direction a few nights ago, which abruptly stopped precisely at 1. Infinity was closed for renovations a couple of weeks ago, I don't know if it's re-opened yet.

Has anyone been to Santitham lately? Is it being similarly restricted?

Edited September 22, 2015 by heybruce

[Chiengmaijoe]

I donot wish to change the topic or take it off track but I think the reason Chiang Mai is going through this is it is known as Red shirt country. The powers that be are just making it tough for business's there.They are sending a message that Chiang mai can and will be heavily policed. Bars are the easiest target for this action

I was thinking along those very lines. From all I have read on Thai Visa not exactly reliable a lot of times but it seems to say that the rest of Thailand has no immigration problems. Chiang Mai is the only one.

Then again there were problems when Yingluck was in power and we were still being ignored.

What I would like to know is how close are all these establishments in Bangkok every one talks about to schools? then again why not let them open up at 5:00 or 6:00.

As far as I know the original 300 m rule was aimed at restricting bars around the universities so as to discourage the students from drinking. If that was the case what is the point of the rule being applied to bars near a primary school? On the journey to school at 8am very few bars would be open with practically nobody visibly drinking anyway, and then what difference does it make if the bar was near their home or near their school? Enforcing 2-5pm closing when for most of that time the kids are in the classroom is nonsensical too. Then, when the bars are busy, from say 8pm till midnight, the school is in darkness and the kids are nowhere to be seen!

Arguably somewhere like UN Irish and plenty of other regular bars could be affected by this rule despite the fact that a schoolkid hardly ever passed the place in the evening and certainly never went in the place. It's all so ridiculously badly thought out. I have heard that Loi Kroh bars are not selling from 2-5pm, but possibly only those that are within 300 m of the technical school on the moat.

[worgeordie]

By the way, a quick look at the bar for sale that I mentioned as part of this post says it was reduced for a 'quick sale', from 3m to 2.5m baht. Any takers under the current circumstances?

Are you not interested Joe,?, you are very knowledgeable about pubs, clubs,music venues,

I am sure you would make a good host,and run a very tight ship,as you like a night out,it

could be better earning money,than spending it,been on the other side of the bar for a

change. Joe's Place, that has a nice friendly ring to it,as you already know about catering

that would be a plus.

regards worgeordie

[Chiengmaijoe]

By the way, a quick look at the bar for sale that I mentioned as part of this post says it was reduced for a 'quick sale', from 3m to 2.5m baht. Any takers under the current circumstances?

Are you not interested Joe,?, you are very knowledgeable about pubs, clubs,music venues,

I am sure you would make a good host,and run a very tight ship,as you like a night out,it

could be better earning money,than spending it,been on the other side of the bar for a

change. Joe's Place, that has a nice friendly ring to it,as you already know about catering

that would be a plus.

regards worgeordie

This place is too isolated, practically no foot traffic and is worth no more than the secondhand value of the fixtures and fittings, and as I have said, under the present circumstances it would not be viable. Invariably bars and restaurants are for sale because the owner 'must return home', has 'other commitments' but in reality are for sale because they are losing money. How many successful businesses are up for sale?

They dig out photos of the few nights a year when they had a party and had a free barbeque, which show the place packed, but don't show the nights when the place is either empty or have a few sad cheap expats sitting in their Chang vests all night with the half bottle of Sangsom they brought in and want to leave behind the bar if they don't finish it. Reduced from 3m to 2.5m for a quick sale!

[Chiengmaijoe]

double post

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[Chiengmaijoe]

double post

Edited September 22, 2015 by Chiengmaijoe

[kanook]

This is a topic worthy of discussion. I just returned from a 2 1/2 month hiatus in Europe and spent 3 nights in Bangkok with two of those nights at clubs until 4am and they were not closed when I left either. Was surprised to find one of my favourite restaurants on Niman closing at 10pm earlier this evening; will make the rounds Wednesday night in search of any late night options.

[Chiengmaijoe]

By the way, a quick look at the bar for sale that I mentioned as part of this post says it was reduced for a 'quick sale', from 3m to 2.5m baht. Any takers under the current circumstances?

Are you not interested Joe,?, you are very knowledgeable about pubs, clubs,music venues,

I am sure you would make a good host,and run a very tight ship,as you like a night out,it

could be better earning money,than spending it,been on the other side of the bar for a

change. Joe's Place, that has a nice friendly ring to it,as you already know about catering

that would be a plus.

regards worgeordie

I forgot to thank you for the compliment but the truth is .... I'd probably be more of a Basil Fawlty than an affable landlord.

[LivinLOS]

In answer to the poster incredulous about midnight closing. The answer right now is that EVERYTHING is being forced to close at midnight. So, in effect, there are no "night clubs" as such open in Chiang Mai.

Perhaps "night clubs" will become known as "late evening clubs" or something similar.

Can promise you, if you happen to be driving along the moat towards Loi Kroh, past Spicy, past Jacks Van, past Lucky Bar ( all well known very late nightspots ) its like a ghost town. Like one of those Buddha days where everything stays closed for religious reasons.

Equally dead at midnight in the Nimmanhamin area, with the possible, qualified exception of the soi 6 bars--Tawan Daeng, Infinity, etc. I'm not a fan of the soi 6 places and haven't checked for a few weeks, but I think Tawan Daeng is allowed to stay open until 1 a.m. I heard loud music coming from that direction a few nights ago, which abruptly stopped precisely at 1. Infinity was closed for renovations a couple of weeks ago, I don't know if it's re-opened yet.

Has anyone been to Santitham lately? Is it being similarly restricted?

Differ Inc was emptying of people around 12:30 2 weeks ago.. Not a place I go to much but saw it riding past.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A common mistake amongst some posters here is assuming that all Chinese are cheap and rude. There are plenty of well-heeled Chinese in Chiang Mai with money to spend and manners to go with it. A decent chunk of my business is now Asian, but since I have menus in Chinese, Japanese and Korean then it's not hard to see why. With direct flights to Chiang Mai from Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Shanghai etc, there are plenty of new customers to replace the slightly declining western tourists. Making brochures, signs or whatever in different languages isn't that expensive or difficult so I'm surprised more people aren't doing it, even though they are getting to be more prevalent.

Yes, this. My wife dabbles a bit in tourism mostly as sort of a semi-hobby, and was opposed to even catering to Chinese guests. I basically forced her the first time and now we actually prefer them. I don't think nationality is a very good indication of anything, but if there was a nationality that's potentially the most challenging then it would be American. Absolutely everyone from China has been great, although we do tend to get independently travelling middle class people. Most have excellent English too. She had guests from China for a week some time ago but their first day wasn't available.. So they booked The Meridien instead for that night! Not short on funds..

Edited September 22, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

That must be why the elephant camps and zipline operators have all the brochures in Chinese these days.

But yes, 'doing it yourself' is actually the traditional hallmark of Western tourists back when backpacking was a thing. Most of those people wouldn't be caught dead in any kind of tour, preferring to do it independently. For me to this day I haven't personally done a tour of any kind in Chiang Mai. And the only one I've been on in Thailand was some island hopping / snorkeling thing off the Andaman coast. (which was worth it, admittedly. )

My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Does she speak Chinese?

She doesn't need to. Although the Chinese do appreciate signage or written information in Chinese as much as the English like to see it in English.

Edited September 22, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The bar is on Loi Kroh near the iron bridge.There is a For Sale sign outside the bar and a recent ad on a Chiang Mai Facebook group.

That's a difficult area. It wouldn't be the first bar to fail there, and likely not the first one in that exact location either.

[worgeordie]

A common mistake amongst some posters here is assuming that all Chinese are cheap and rude. There are plenty of well-heeled Chinese in Chiang Mai with money to spend and manners to go with it. A decent chunk of my business is now Asian, but since I have menus in Chinese, Japanese and Korean then it's not hard to see why. With direct flights to Chiang Mai from Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Shanghai etc, there are plenty of new customers to replace the slightly declining western tourists. Making brochures, signs or whatever in different languages isn't that expensive or difficult so I'm surprised more people aren't doing it, even though they are getting to be more prevalent.

Yes, this. My wife dabbles a bit in tourism mostly as sort of a semi-hobby, and was opposed to even catering to Chinese guests. I basically forced her the first time and now we actually prefer them. I don't think nationality is a very good indication of anything, but if there was a nationality that's potentially the most challenging then it would be American. Absolutely everyone from China has been great, although we do tend to get independently travelling middle class people. Most have excellent English too. She had guests from China for a week some time ago but their first day wasn't available.. So they booked The Meridien instead for that night! Not short on funds..

I was in a small family run restaurant,in the centre of the old town,we have been

a customer for nearly 30 years,they have signs on the entrance,no singlets,flip flops,

and over time I have seen the owner refuse to serve tourists that were not properly

dressed,this time a Chinese mother and young daughter,sat down,then were told

they would not be served and please leave,they were dressed respectfully,so the

only reason could be that they were Chinese.

regards Worgeordie

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ If that place was Thanom then they can go straight to hell. They have issues.

Edited September 23, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[northernjohn]

My partner is a tour guide/ tour arranger and is not a Red Shirt and her numbers are significantly down. Before anyone says it by the way,Chinese tourists dont buy tours they rent bikes and do it all themselves. My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

That must be why the elephant camps and zipline operators have all the brochures in Chinese these days.

But yes, 'doing it yourself' is actually the traditional hallmark of Western tourists back when backpacking was a thing. Most of those people wouldn't be caught dead in any kind of tour, preferring to do it independently. For me to this day I haven't personally done a tour of any kind in Chiang Mai. And the only one I've been on in Thailand was some island hopping / snorkeling thing off the Andaman coast. (which was worth it, admittedly. )

My partner has not done one baht of trade with the Chinese tourists.

Does she speak Chinese?

She doesn't need to. Although the Chinese do appreciate signage or written information in Chinese as much as the English like to see it in English.

Just a point of interest. To me any how. China has the most number of English speaking people in the world. also if you are one in a million they have over 1,100 just like you.

Spare us. LOL

[Chiengmaijoe]

A common mistake amongst some posters here is assuming that all Chinese are cheap and rude. There are plenty of well-heeled Chinese in Chiang Mai with money to spend and manners to go with it. A decent chunk of my business is now Asian, but since I have menus in Chinese, Japanese and Korean then it's not hard to see why. With direct flights to Chiang Mai from Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Shanghai etc, there are plenty of new customers to replace the slightly declining western tourists. Making brochures, signs or whatever in different languages isn't that expensive or difficult so I'm surprised more people aren't doing it, even though they are getting to be more prevalent.

Yes, this. My wife dabbles a bit in tourism mostly as sort of a semi-hobby, and was opposed to even catering to Chinese guests. I basically forced her the first time and now we actually prefer them. I don't think nationality is a very good indication of anything, but if there was a nationality that's potentially the most challenging then it would be American. Absolutely everyone from China has been great, although we do tend to get independently travelling middle class people. Most have excellent English too. She had guests from China for a week some time ago but their first day wasn't available.. So they booked The Meridien instead for that night! Not short on funds..

I was in a small family run restaurant,in the centre of the old town,we have been

a customer for nearly 30 years,they have signs on the entrance,no singlets,flip flops,

and over time I have seen the owner refuse to serve tourists that were not properly

dressed,this time a Chinese mother and young daughter,sat down,then were told

they would not be served and please leave,they were dressed respectfully,so the

only reason could be that they were Chinese.

regards Worgeordie

Although a dress code is a bit unusual, I can see why some places might want to have one. It's up to them if they want to exclude certain people based on attire, but to do it based on race, as you suggest this place does, shouldn't be allowed, and is illegal in some countries. I remember a night-club in Bournemouth, where I lived prior to moving here, had a 'No jeans' policy, which was a bit odd. I got caught out by that one a couple of times. I hear that some years later they had a 'No Shell-suits' policy but the local scousers complained that it was racist and they had to remove it.

I know of a place in town that has a No Riffraff sign, but that is totally understandable.

[piewarmer]

Great thread.

[MESmith]

A common mistake amongst some posters here is assuming that all Chinese are cheap and rude. There are plenty of well-heeled Chinese in Chiang Mai with money to spend and manners to go with it. A decent chunk of my business is now Asian, but since I have menus in Chinese, Japanese and Korean then it's not hard to see why. With direct flights to Chiang Mai from Seoul, Hong Kong, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Shanghai etc, there are plenty of new customers to replace the slightly declining western tourists. Making brochures, signs or whatever in different languages isn't that expensive or difficult so I'm surprised more people aren't doing it, even though they are getting to be more prevalent.

Yes, this. My wife dabbles a bit in tourism mostly as sort of a semi-hobby, and was opposed to even catering to Chinese guests. I basically forced her the first time and now we actually prefer them. I don't think nationality is a very good indication of anything, but if there was a nationality that's potentially the most challenging then it would be American. Absolutely everyone from China has been great, although we do tend to get independently travelling middle class people. Most have excellent English too. She had guests from China for a week some time ago but their first day wasn't available.. So they booked The Meridien instead for that night! Not short on funds..

I was in a small family run restaurant,in the centre of the old town,we have been

a customer for nearly 30 years,they have signs on the entrance,no singlets,flip flops,

and over time I have seen the owner refuse to serve tourists that were not properly

dressed,this time a Chinese mother and young daughter,sat down,then were told

they would not be served and please leave,they were dressed respectfully,so the

only reason could be that they were Chinese.

regards Worgeordie

Although a dress code is a bit unusual, I can see why some places might want to have one. It's up to them if they want to exclude certain people based on attire, but to do it based on race, as you suggest this place does, shouldn't be allowed, and is illegal in some countries. I remember a night-club in Bournemouth, where I lived prior to moving here, had a 'No jeans' policy, which was a bit odd. I got caught out by that one a couple of times. I hear that some years later they had a 'No Shell-suits' policy but the local scousers complained that it was racist and they had to remove it.

I know of a place in town that has a No Riffraff sign, but that is totally understandable.

[millwall_fan]

If I didn't know Chiang Mai "Joe" better, I'd say that he was hankering to buy another bar at a knock-down price.....

I walked away from the bar trade in Chiang Mai just over 2 years ago somewhat with my tail between my legs, now living in Bangkok on a good 6 figure salary (Baht!) and with decent holidays, it looks like moving on was a positive....

As to why this is all happening, the wheels were put in place by former governor Pannada Diskul some years ago: he envisaged a city of Buddhist tranquility and misty temples (all 300 of them), attracting, locals and outsiders looking for meditation retreats, spa and 'wellness' places, traditional Thai massage etc etc. Bars, discos, nightclubs and Loi Kroh rd in particular did not form part of his plan. I don't think this policy has ever been rescinded, Anyway it fits neatly with the Bangkok Elite's view of Chiang Mai in general - they don't need fancy bars and nightclubs, there are plenty of flash ones here in Bangkok - they see Chiang Mai just as Mr Diskul did (he is one of their number).

I don't buy this red shirt yellow shirt reason for the 'clampdown' (and I say that as a 'Red' supporter who would be delighted if such a conspiracy theory were true.). I am coming up to Chiang Mai in mid October and again over Christmas and the 12 O'clock ban won't really affect me - I'll just go out earlier. If the 2-5 ban is being enforced widely it would bother me as I quite enjoy an 'all-dayer' after church on a Sunday. hopefully their are a few places where I can bridge the 2-5 gap!

[Chicog]

Kitty Kat bar on Loi Kroh has just changed hands. Be interesting to see if it stays as a bar or morphs into something else.

[scottiejohn]

Hi P

I'm in your ex place at this very moment (1440 local time) having just bought a little libation - so no problem with your 2-5pm gap filler.

I am shocked that you should think 'Chiang Mai "Joe"' (you're spelling!) would even contemplate such a thing. He has never 'done it' before has he?

Might see you in town if you are here mid Oct.

[true blue]

getting quite used to this cinderella lark,sleeping lots better,getting to bed early(midnightish) and wallet enjoying it to,not having to stay out till 2/3 oclock and forking out handsome man money,