Staining Doorframes

[chiangrai]

I just started sanding a doorframe to get it ready to stain and varnish.

It,s a new doorframe in a new house but the builder got concrete on it

and when I sanded it off it's left dark stains on the wood.

The doorframe is made out of redwood and I was planning on using redwood

stain on it.Now I'm thinking that the stain might make it look worse.

What do you advise me to do.

Also I see on Youtube that you should use a conditioner before staining hardwoods.Is redwood a hard wood.Can you buy wood conditioner in Thailand.

[PattayaClub]

You say "redwood." that me be the color, but what is the species? Most doorframes here re made from mai bradu.

What brand and kind of stain do you intend to use? I had good l luck with Beger Wood Stain (oil and stain all-in-one). They advocate using a sealer if it is a high tanin wood, or if the moisture content is high.

You question depends on both the species and the nature of the chemicals you intend to use.

If you can't sand out the concrete stain, I am wondering how hard the wood really is. Stains don't often penetrate very deeply in a very hard wood.

thee are many wood treatment products available here, but I am not sure what you mean by "conditioner." You can get sealers, moisture barriers, etc.

[eyecatcher]

I was also wondering if you mean the frame had the red stain wash on it.

I bought a couple of doorframes this week and the red wood stained frames were the cheap ones so i reckoned they were actually a softwood with a dipped insect repellent.

My guess as you dont have a photo is that the cement has bleached the red stain. When you tried to sand it away you have just started sanding through to the original softwood so it will always look bleached.

I would try to find the same original stain and do them again.

It could be this one

[chiangrai]

! had the frames made up spechialy in the lumber yard.

They said they were made from what they call "Mai Daeng"

which means red wood.They were much more expensive than the

ready made ones.

They seem really hard when driving screws in and the grain is really fine

on the cross section after I saw it.

I don't know how moist the wood is.It would be great to not have to varnish

them.

If I do can you recomend a varnish.I see on the internet that "decking"varnish is the most expensive

so does that mean it's the best.I want a mat finish.One side of each doorframe is outside but the

ones in the back porch don't get direct sunlight.

I was thinking of painting the ones on the front because they get sun all day.

I have 5 window frames and 6 doorframes to do.

If I could just "stain and oil in one" and not varnish the shaded ones and pain the few

on that are exposed it would be great.

How do I know if they are need varnish.I've only had them made about 6 weeks ago.

[petermik]

Chaindrite Wood stain is very good-repells termites also (allegedly)

[PattayaClub]

I actually have some mai daeng in my wood stock pile, but have not yet used it. It is quite old. When I sliced into some to have a look, I was shocked at its beauty. Although I got mine from timbers in an old rice barn, the locals tell me the stuff costs an arm and a leg. If you truly did get mai daeng, it should have been quite expensive. I have been thinking about using some mai daeng for a cabinet or some furniture. Unfortunately, I have not yet used it nor tried to apply a finish. I have been told, however, that it is so hard that it won't effectively take a stain. I do not know if this is true or not. I do know that when it comes to sanding it, it will require at least twice as much elbow grease as you would need to sand the same amount of teak.

You might be interested in this interesting pinned link about Thai woods (some six pages of reference and discussion): http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/201757-local-wood-varieties/

This is an except about mai daeng:

Tree Latin Name: Xylia xylocarpa
Local Lao/Thai name: mai daeng
Trade Name: Pyinkado

Description: Even though a direct tranlation would work out as 'red wood' it isn't, neither is it rosewood. Pyinkado is actually the Burmese name trade name but it covers all wood in Lao and Thai. It is a VERY durable and tough wood which has twice the hardness of teak. Used for railway sleepers, piers and other sub-aqua purposes (15 years life untreated) also excellent flooring. With these properties it is also very heavy when green over 1000kg per Cum also hard to work. Added to this it's a very decorative pinky red in colour.

As for varnish, I have never used varnish in my life except for using some marine grade varnish on a front door in Alaska that got 16 hours of direct sunlight per day during the summer. I have always preferred an oil-type finish. That's not to denigrate varnish in any way. Frankly, I do not know a lot about it.

In any event, I would strongly recommend you go back to where you got the door frames and ask for some scraps of the same wood. Then experiment with it with sanding and application of different possible finishes until you find one you like. You shouldn't just jump into a permanent solution that you might discover doesn't work well.

A friend that is building a teak house filled with beautiful woodwork and he swears by Protego products: <http://www.protego.co.th/> There is a rep in Phichit: Chatree, phone 092-612-1969 He says the customer service, product quality and free consulting is unmatched.

I have never used Protego products. So far, here in Thailand, I have used only Beger Wood Stain on everything. I just bought some clear yesterday that I will try out today.

Let us know how it goes with the mai daeng.

By the way, termites won't eat mai daeng, which is one of the reasons it is (or used to be) favored for railway sleepers.

By the way, no.2: Beger 'wood stain is a stain and oil "all-in-one' product with a UV protectant added. It comes in many different stain colors including clear. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you about long tern durability because I have only had my earliest projects in service for a little over a year. But so far, so good. I have another friend who has built four houses over several years in Thailand and swears by the Beger products.

Edited September 24, 2015 by PattayaClub

[chiangrai]

I'm not sure what redwood I have.It cost about 10,000bht for

7 doors and 7 frames.

I just got what I could at the hardware shop.

I got Berger wood stain in redwood color,there is very little English on the tin,I would love to know if it's the stuff with

Oil in it or not.I would love to know if I have to use varnish on it or not.

I got a gallon of clear Matt exterior varnish just in case.

I must wait till I get home and get the missus to read the can.

Sometimes DIY is a complete mistery in Thailand.

[eyecatcher]

I'm not sure what redwood I have.It cost about 10,000bht for

7 doors and 7 frames.

I just got what I could at the hardware shop.

I got Berger wood stain in redwood color,there is very little English on the tin,I would love to know if it's the stuff with

Oil in it or not.I would love to know if I have to use varnish on it or not.

I got a gallon of clear Matt exterior varnish just in case.

I must wait till I get home and get the missus to read the can.

Sometimes DIY is a complete mistery in Thailand.

something wrong with that price. A single door frame cheap will be 600bt, but normally a decent h/w frame is 800bt. if you have 7 that should be circa 5600bt. The only door you can get for under 700bt is......thinking.....still thinking....possibly the crappy plastic doors..... but a hardwood door will cost you from 1900bt upwards.

What did you buy for10k.

The Beger stain is my favourite becasue its the cheapest and is available in gloss and semi gloss. There is no need to varnish when you are using gloss but personally I dont like the unpredictability of gloss stains they can be great or can look awful. I would first use a semi gloss or matt stain and build up the colour to your preference then clear varnish at the very end.

[bankruatsteve]

I would return the varnish. Just sand and stain, light sand and stain, light sand and stain, etc. until you get the finish you like. (Assuming the "stain" is not just a stain.)

[PattayaClub]

I'm not sure what redwood I have.It cost about 10,000bht for

7 doors and 7 frames.

I just got what I could at the hardware shop.

I got Berger wood stain in redwood color,there is very little English on the tin,I would love to know if it's the stuff with

Oil in it or not.I would love to know if I have to use varnish on it or not.

I got a gallon of clear Matt exterior varnish just in case.

I must wait till I get home and get the missus to read the can.

Sometimes DIY is a complete mistery in Thailand.

There is "Berger" and the is "Beger." Beger is a German brand (manufactured here). I suspect, though I do not know, that "Berger" is a deliberate attempt to capitalize off the well-known Beger name. I used "Beger," and it has Thai AND English on the can. I have seen Berger at Global house but have never bought it. I know the Beger brand. I had never before heard of "Berger," so am suspicious. I also boycott most products that don't bother to put English on the can. There are almost always other choices to be had.

[PattayaClub]

I'm not sure what redwood I have.It cost about 10,000bht for

7 doors and 7 frames.

I just got what I could at the hardware shop.

I got Berger wood stain in redwood color,there is very little English on the tin,I would love to know if it's the stuff with

Oil in it or not.I would love to know if I have to use varnish on it or not.

I got a gallon of clear Matt exterior varnish just in case.

I must wait till I get home and get the missus to read the can.

Sometimes DIY is a complete mistery in Thailand.

something wrong with that price. A single door frame cheap will be 600bt, but normally a decent h/w frame is 800bt. if you have 7 that should be circa 5600bt. The only door you can get for under 700bt is......thinking.....still thinking....possibly the crappy plastic doors..... but a hardwood door will cost you from 1900bt upwards.

What did you buy for10k.

The Beger stain is my favourite becasue its the cheapest and is available in gloss and semi gloss. There is no need to varnish when you are using gloss but personally I dont like the unpredictability of gloss stains they can be great or can look awful. I would first use a semi gloss or matt stain and build up the colour to your preference then clear varnish at the very end.

I agree. There is no possibility the vendor sold you mai daeng for that price. If he said mai daeng, he's either a liar or he stole the wood. Most door frames here are typically made from mai bradoo, sometimes called mai doo.

I normally use the semi-gloss, never gloss. I haven't been able to find the matt.

Edited September 25, 2015 by PattayaClub

[chiangrai]

I'm home now and can read the can a lot better.

It is Begar deckstain and it gives wood protection and water resistance

and UV protection for exterior wood.It says minimum 3 coats.

I'm going to go with that.

It says to apply with a brush it says nothing about wiping it off right away

so you don't get too dark a stain like the youtube videos.

I read some where that there are two "mai Daengs" one is ordinary "mai daeng" and the other is short for

"mai sak daeng" "red teak".

I just asked for an average decent wood and that was what he recomended,he didn't sell it as

anything spechial.My builder called it "mai daeng" too.

Now to stain it and see how it looks.

[sometimewoodworker]

The product usually sold in Thailand as stain would probably be better described as brown paint. It will completely cover the grain of the wood.

If you want to see the wood grain and change the colour of the wood then you would start with a coloured shellac and put a clear varnish (usually a polyurethane) over it to protect the finish. You can get both in the usual places though if you want a water based poly then I've found that only HomePro has Rothenburg and that's the one I prefer.

[sometimewoodworker]

Also I see on Youtube that you should use a conditioner before staining hardwoods.

That depends on the wood and the stain or dye that you use.

Some woods, hard and soft, will blotch if you apply the colour directly to the raw wood, some will take a colour in oil or alcohol but blotch with a water based stain others the reverse. So the only sure way is to test on a sample.

Is redwood a hard wood.

Yes

All native species of tropical wood are hard woods. You need colder weather for soft wood. However do not mistake the term hardwood to mean that the wood is hard. One of the softest species Balsa is a hard wood and Yew, which is very hard, is a softwood

Can you buy wood conditioner in Thailand.

Simple answer yes

The longer answer is that what wood conditioners do is to seal, or partly seal, the wood so that the colour does not get absorbed more in some of the grain. So what you need is something to do that job.

Shellac is a wonderful material it will go over and adhere to almost anything and every finish will adhere to it. Having said that a good conditioner is 1/4lb to 1/2lb cut. The shellac you buy will probably be about a 2lb or 4lb cut so just dilute it with methanol. If you dilute it until it is very thin it is no problem as you can just add more coats and since it is diluted with alcohol you can probably re-coat it within 10 mins.

Two points to remember one is that you should let the conditioner dry overnight before staining. The other is that you must make sure that the shellac has not been sitting in stock a long time as old shellac will never dry hard it will always be sticky, more than 6 months is bad.