Thai Immigration To Introduce Fingerprint Scanning At Suvarnabhumi

[BPayette]

I for one would be up for racial and religious profiling! This random searching doesn't cut it. Go after the people that look like they want to blow up a plane. I won't go any further on this topic for fear of being removed...

It's amazing how things always revert back to 911.

"Jimmy, how was school today?", "Well, mommy, we had lunch and it sucked so my teacher said it was because of 911".

See what i mean?

[soic]

It is scary to see how many of you dont give a sh** about big brother... it appears all you sheep have been brainwashed from 9/11 and given up cowardly all the liberties so many people died for - well, you just gave them bunch of terrorists a bigger victory they could ever have dreamt of... you sad <lacking printable words>!

Scanning fingerprints isn't a loss of liberty... Those with nothing to fear shouldn't mind the inconvenience. You leave your fingerprints everywhere you go on everything you touch. What's wrong with someone looking at them if it can catch criminals? Unless you are a criminal... at least we have a brain to wash... I personally think that those that have something to hide will cry the loudest to try to stir up the masses to fight for their "right" to remain free.... It's so terrible to scan for fingerprints.... it's so bad... 9/11, rights, freedom, sheep, cattle oh my!!!! don't scan me... I might get caught. JEEZ!!!!! Gimme a break!!!!!

[oevna]

...

I wholeheartedly agree with you and those people who don't object and think it's normal are like sheep willingly allowing themselves being led to the slaughterhouse.

Why? Because passports will become better at doing what they are supposed to do? Why should they even bother to require passports for identification when they are so easily falsified? Adding fingerprinting only makes it harder to falsify them.

I'm willing to admit if I'm missing something here. What rights are you giving up by having your finger print in your passport?

I believe the problem is that passports in their current form can no longer positively identify a person, given the level of sophisitication of counterfeits available.

I haven't heard any convincing arguments from the people who disagree with this -- only statements like "you're all sheep being lead to the slaughter house." Let's have a rational debate here. What are you giving up that you haven't already given up by having a passport in the first place? Have you been relying on the bureaucratic inefficiency of the immigration departments in the countries that you visit to protect your privacy?

[Martin]

From post #59, by 'Crushdepth':

"Just for reference, more than 20,000 people have been killed in Iraq in the last 2 months alone. Terrorism is a small threat compared to the bastardry that governments are capable of."

To coin a phrase, one man's terrorist is another man's President or Prime Minister.

But is it quite right to denigrate the US and British Governments? My understanding is that Bush and Bliar bamboozled the US and UK Governments with lies about what their Security systems were telling them about WMDs. So those deaths are down to two men, not two governments.

"It is the evil in men that makes democracy necessary.

It is the good in men that makes democracy possible."

But don't hold your breath whilst waiting for the possible to be achieved.

[thatguy]

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" ...

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin - 73k - Cached - Similar pages

[Thaiher2me]

From post #59, by 'Crushdepth':

"Just for reference, more than 20,000 people have been killed in Iraq in the last 2 months alone. Terrorism is a small threat compared to the bastardry that governments are capable of."

To coin a phrase, one man's terrorist is another man's President or Prime Minister.

But is it quite right to denigrate the US and British Governments? My understanding is that Bush and Bliar bamboozled the US and UK Governments with lies about what their Security systems were telling them about WMDs. So those deaths are down to two men, not two governments.

"It is the evil in men that makes democracy necessary.

It is the good in men that makes democracy possible."

But don't hold your breath whilst waiting for the possible to be achieved.

Hi Martin, I have just realised that the finger print check at the airport will connect to INTERPOL, and if you did six months jail in the U.S. 15 years ago for selling a joint to an undercover cop then you are branded as criminal and will NOT be admitted into Thailand because you have served TIME IN PRISON! What do you think?

[soic]

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" ...

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin - 73k - Cached - Similar pages

The man can quote... I've used that quote quite a few times myself. I bought into that whole conspiracy theory thing for a while.

Can you use your own words and specify exactly what liberty you lose by scanning your fingerprints? Can you define liberty? No one is free from identification. Having a bio-chip forced under the skin... that's an invasion and would be a loss of liberty. Being forced to give blood for DNA matching, that would be a loss of liberty. Being forced to live in a certain area because of your race, religion or politics would be a loss of liberty. Placing your finger on a screen to match your fingerprint to your passport or a possible criminal record would be an inconvenience. If you're going to quote something, at least use it in the right context. Loss of Liberty vs. Inconvenience... Wow! I should have a right to be free of nonsense... this arguement could be taken so much further. No fingerprint, No Passport, No ID what-so-ever, terrorists, murderers, rapists, child molestors free to roam the country, move into the house next door to schools, work in schools, blow up planes, cross borders "freely".... why it would be your Eutopia... freedom and liberty... no inconveniences at all. Now wouldn't you feel safe? Wouldn't you be so worry free to have your children leave the house?

[skippybangkok]

Well, pasport errors can happen too. was traveling with a guy from china to HK, and his name is the same as a known gangster in China. He spent 3 hours in the office clearing his name ( aparently, he gets this issue alot ). So, with or without finger prints, screw ups can happen.

Not sure about the technology, but I think finger prints will be harder to forge ( unless they will start with Laser finger print re-touching - could be new business line )

[Thaiher2me]

Well, pasport errors can happen too. was traveling with a guy from china to HK, and his name is the same as a known gangster in China. He spent 3 hours in the office clearing his name ( aparently, he gets this issue alot ). So, with or without finger prints, screw ups can happen.

Not sure about the technology, but I think finger prints will be harder to forge ( unless they will start with Laser finger print re-touching - could be new business line )

Hi skippybangkok, I have forgotten where I found it now, as it was a while ago now, but there is this professor guy who has developed and tested replica finger prints in Japan I think. He has told all the major security companies about how he did it, but they did not want to know because of the legal and financial repercussions. When I read it I thought WOW!!!

[PuaSai]

But will the fingerprint actually be linked to the travel documents?

As long as there is no biometric information stored in the passport, I don't see how they can do that?

Will it stop people from buying passports from village people who have no intent to use it themselves?

Or will the fingerprint only be linked to some sort of national database of (un)wanted people?

Don't forget there are other agencies from other countries there that I am sure will help the Thais with this techology and the database issue. The US has the FBI, DEA and other agencies there for example. Thats open source information on the US Embassy website. Will also help catch known pedophiles coming in an messing with the Thai children. Can't say I blame them. Wait until they introduce the iris scan..... Its VERY effective...

[PuaSai]

...

I wholeheartedly agree with you and those people who don't object and think it's normal are like sheep willingly allowing themselves being led to the slaughterhouse.

Why? Because passports will become better at doing what they are supposed to do? Why should they even bother to require passports for identification when they are so easily falsified? Adding fingerprinting only makes it harder to falsify them.

I'm willing to admit if I'm missing something here. What rights are you giving up by having your finger print in your passport?

I believe the problem is that passports in their current form can no longer positively identify a person, given the level of sophisitication of counterfeits available.

I haven't heard any convincing arguments from the people who disagree with this -- only statements like "you're all sheep being lead to the slaughter house." Let's have a rational debate here. What are you giving up that you haven't already given up by having a passport in the first place? Have you been relying on the bureaucratic inefficiency of the immigration departments in the countries that you visit to protect your privacy?

You're right. With a sophisticated computer, the right person can create an impressive "official" document. This type system will help block this problem.

[PuaSai]

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" ...

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin - 73k - Cached - Similar pages

He might not have said that were he alive today. Don't forgt that the US patriots were also terrorists/insurgents by todays standards... Thats why I dont understand why all the hooplah about the coup. Does anyone watch the news or know anything about the Kurdish people? Another similarity to the building of America... They are like a "nation" struggling to evolve. There is a lot of Kurdish blood in the soil up north in Iraq and they kept the Iraqis at bay with more simple weaponry. They held the mountains and the iraqi Army paid everytime they came close.

Edited September 29, 2006 by PuaSai

[PuaSai]

Well, pasport errors can happen too. was traveling with a guy from china to HK, and his name is the same as a known gangster in China. He spent 3 hours in the office clearing his name ( aparently, he gets this issue alot ). So, with or without finger prints, screw ups can happen.

Not sure about the technology, but I think finger prints will be harder to forge ( unless they will start with Laser finger print re-touching - could be new business line )

They will be like fingerprint "hackers". There will always be someone who tries to beat a system. Think about it, the hackers create work for windows, norton, MacAfee, etc.... its a HUGE business!

[moonoi]

But will the fingerprint actually be linked to the travel documents?

As long as there is no biometric information stored in the passport, I don't see how they can do that?

Will it stop people from buying passports from village people who have no intent to use it themselves?

Or will the fingerprint only be linked to some sort of national database of (un)wanted people?

Don't forget there are other agencies from other countries there that I am sure will help the Thais with this techology and the database issue. The US has the FBI, DEA and other agencies there for example. Thats open source information on the US Embassy website. Will also help catch known pedophiles coming in an messing with the Thai children. Can't say I blame them. Wait until they introduce the iris scan..... Its VERY effective...

Iris scanning technology is not very effective at all....just try doing a bit of research on it. They did a trial recently in the UK as part of the UKID scheme. Although they pronounce it a success you should take a close look at the figures for false positives and failure rates.......if it was every rolled out fully it would crash and burn

For fingerprints, I have no object at all if the fingerprint is stored on my passport. The way to protect privacy is to not have the print stored anywhere else, all that is required for ID verfication is that the biometric information is read from the passport, my fingerprint scanned and compared with it and then discarded.

But this isn't really about ID verification is it?

forgot to add all new Thai passports already contain fingerprints and picture as biometric identifiers, European passports only have the picture

Edited September 29, 2006 by moonoi

[bigmacdaddybone]

I still don't understand why there is a need for ANY government to obtain my finger prints when entering their country with a legal document identifying me (passport)

Quite simple, it stops people from coming and going with multiple passports using multiple identities, even if they are all "legal".

Too right, we live in a different world post 9/11 and its one of the things we will have to put up with if we don't want to be blown to pieces. Terrorists don't give a ###### about human rights.

[/quote ]

maybe i'm a little naive but is that illegal to enter thailand with multiple passports? if they are legitamate? I thought i could get around the 90 day wait with the free visa on arrivals .....using my multi national status? please comment need a little guidence

[Martin]

In post #66, 'Thaiher2me' said:

"Hi Martin, I have just realised that the finger print check at the airport will connect to INTERPOL, and if you did six months jail in the U.S. 15 years ago for selling a joint to an undercover cop then you are branded as criminal and will NOT be admitted into Thailand because you have served TIME IN PRISON! What do you think?"

First, my fingerprints are just a photograph of the ends of my fingers.

There is no logical reason for me to resent them being recorded for identification, if I don't resent a photograph of my face being taken for that purpose.

However, emotion and practicality come in, as well as logic.

Fingerprints are an emotional matter, because of our association between them and forensic work in detecting criminality. However, I gave my fingerprints to the RCMP in 1959 when being 'vetted' for work on the arctic radar stations. And I gave them to the Royal thai Police in 2004 when getting a "No Criminal Record" certificate to let me teach when I went back to England. So I am past the emotional barrier.

And now, digital signal processing brings in a practicality that I didn't foresee. As said above, it allows them to go to Interpol or whoever (including criminals who hack in to get material for identity theft).

So, I am uneasy that there is a chance that I will be inconvenienced by identify theft or system cockup, but I don't see it as an erosion of liberty.

As to being banned for selling a joint in 1992, I think it is unfortunate if Thailand doesn't recognise that that is a "spent conviction".

But, if that is their rule, it has to be abided by, and those who can't meet it shouldn't be trying to break it by trying to enter.

In the final analysis, freedom does not include the freedom to ignore laws that don't suit us---though, in practice, most people feel that there should be a bit of 'give and take'--especially here in Thailand!

[lannarebirth]

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" ...

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin - 73k - Cached - Similar pages

I must say I agree with you, but I fail to see what liberty is being sacrificed by the modernization of identification methods in order to keep pace with the technology that may usurp it. We could go back to a non-digitized world I suppose, but I'll bet more people would be hollering about that than this.

[MatPayne]

They should start accepting those European Biometrics passports. I am going to get one next week with wireless chip so they can scan this remotely. I wonder if this ever will come in place.

Imagine, you have your passport and you just walk through the gate. No scan, no picture, everything is stored on the passport. But you know, it reminds me fight with crime - they are always ahead of you. European Passports have pinctures stored, and immigration wants fingerprints. Once passport will have fingerprints stored, then they will ask for another check. Never ending, they always wants more and more.

e-card system has been up and running in certain countries in the middle east for about 5 years now!

Loads quicker and easier - if you have nothing to hide!

[beerlao]

Soon we will have to give up all of our privacy and let them screen our home. You guys always talk about technological advancements and how they help us catch the bad guys. Is this modern society so fearful and cowardish to give up any little freedom and privacy that we have left? Where will all this end? I have seen a number of SciFi movies that feed my fantasy when it comes to future scenarios, and I must say I do not like them. A society where there is no individual freedom, where everything is screened and bugged with monitoring devices. This is not a world worth living in. Say you went to a store looking to buy a hammer, this hammer that you touches is bought by a man that kills somebody with it, leaving no prints on it but yours......

beerlao

[AlexLah]

I am just thinking of the possibility of being mixed up for a criminal based on

(almost) identical fingerprints.

There are more then 5 billion people on this planet. Who can prove that my fingerprint is unique

and does not look ore looks similair like some other?

Same for your appearance (face) I bet you can find someone on this planet that looks very much like you (not me ).

Oh and another thing that happened to me while I entered Thailand a few months ago.

When entering passport check they took my passport (which is by the way not allowed) I was asked to follow some officer.

Ok I follow and had no idea why.

Then they bring me in some room where there was a Asian looking lady with a Dutch passport.

Officer needed another Dutch passport to compare her pass with mine.

Ok him check for tem minutes then they stamp my passport and I could go without my picture taken.

I think therefore it is all BS and just 'invented' to give people a false sense of security.

Now how is that fingerprint stored on your passport, as a jpeg or something?

Any digital data can be manipulated.

Oh and in Spain some disco provides implanting chip in your body and that is linked with an account

where you put money in so you do not have to carry any cash or CC. When you order drinks someone just scans you and the bill is payed.

Alex

[Sandstone Art]

Is this to STOP Toxin from returning to Thailand?

With his billions of $$ he will be able to do a better face job than MJ?

But he cannot get away with his finger prints

[SpaceKadet]

Great idea!!! And while we're at it, lets leave a urine sample, a sperm sample (for us guys, just in case we are "possible" sex offenders), and for a good measure let them take a retintal scan too. And let them count our genomes too and include in the database. Seriously people, would you trust any governement on this planet with that much information about yourself? And please don't give me this BS line about "global terrorism" etc...

George Orwell was right, just 20 years off...

I can imagine myself going through the immigration somewhere in the US (where all this information will end up, no doubt?) in 2015?...

Imm officer: Ah sir, I see that you were in Thailand just a week before the coup in 2010...

Me: huh???

Imm officer: yes, and in Burma just week prior to that...

Me: well, I was on holidays....

Imm officer: and I see that you've been working in the Middle East for a long time... your features look a bit Arab to me...

Me: huh!!!! but my mother is Swedish...

Imm officer: no matter, Sir, I just got it confirmed that your finger prints match an armed bank robery in KC 2 weeks ago... please step through here...

Me: but I was the other side of the planet then...

Imm officer: you can explain it to the judge, Sir.. just keep your hands where I can see them and follow the man with the gun...

So where is that hydrocloric acid to wash my hands with...

[LaoPo]

Iris scanning technology is not very effective at all....just try doing a bit of research on it.

You're mistaken here.

Amsterdam Schiphol airport uses it already, called 'Privium'.

It's in an early stage but will grow in the future, no doubt.

http://www.schiphol.nl/privium/privium.jsp...amp;bmLocale=en

LaoPo

[Jimjim]

Not a bad concept

I still don't understand why there is a need for ANY government to obtain my finger prints when entering their country with a legal document identifying me (passport)

Finger printing is a technique closely identified with a criminal record.

Forcing visitors to this technique is as much as saying: I don't trust the document you present to me for your identification.

I don't trust the visa in it given out by my own embassy or consular services.

In other words it questions the whole international travel agreements currently existing.

Finger printing and its future equivalent eye scanning followed later in time by DNA checking are steps on the way of total governmental control of its citizens and the citizens of any other country that happens to pass their borders. How the information is storaged used and shared is totally unknown to us.

By allowing governments to use these techniques, we are giving up the personal liberties and freedoms that so many people have fought and died for in our very recent history.

No, you're not giving up personal liberties. For example, a person can get a passport, and then commit a criminal act, and not have their passport confiscated. They could be due for a court date and leave the country. It's a good way to nab criminals. If you're not a criminal, then there is little reason you should be concerned except for your own paranoia. And I don't think any of your contrymen, if you're not Thai, fought and died for you to have rights in Thailand. Maybe in your own country, but you can only speak for your own country, not ALL of the other countries. Such is the nature of our world today. Criminals can't always be caught, and an effective way to catch some is to catch them at borders.

[marquess]

For all of you guys who think that all these new security measures, are necessary, and we should not complain about any loss of freedom! Take a listen to www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 and go to the listen again, and to Letters From Guantanomo. See there how all the people there have been stripped of their liberties in the interests of security. The new 21st century Gulag! The particular inmate that it, focuses on, was simply an Al Gerceria camera man! If you let liberty, slip,then your definitely slipping!

Edited September 30, 2006 by marquess

[jdinasia]

For all of you guys who think that all these new security measures, are necessary, and we should not complain about any loss of freedom! Take a listen to www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 and go to the listen again, and to Letters From Guantanomo. See there how all the people there have been stripped of their liberties in the interests of security. The new 21st century Gulag! The particular inmate that it, focuses on, was simply an Al Gerceria camera man! If you let liberty, slip,then your definitely slipping!

ummm Fingerprinting and biometric passports have FA to do with Gitmo and Iraq ..... This is Thailand ......

[britmaveric]

For all of you guys who think that all these new security measures, are necessary, and we should not complain about any loss of freedom! Take a listen to www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 and go to the listen again, and to Letters From Guantanomo. See there how all the people there have been stripped of their liberties in the interests of security. The new 21st century Gulag! The particular inmate that it, focuses on, was simply an Al Gerceria camera man! If you let liberty, slip,then your definitely slipping!

Least they can't blow anyone else up, but I digress nought to do with fingerprint scanning!!

[stumonster]

if they cannot succesfully stamp out the dodgy aircraft parts industry , which probably causes more airline deaths than tewworwist activity - I would not back them to be able to successfully put in place a personnel movent control system.

this is just another fat government contract masquerading as a nessecary security measure.

[astral]

In post #66, 'Thaiher2me' said:

"Hi Martin, I have just realised that the finger print check at the airport will connect to INTERPOL, and if you did six months jail in the U.S. 15 years ago for selling a joint to an undercover cop then you are branded as criminal and will NOT be admitted into Thailand because you have served TIME IN PRISON! What do you think?"

As to being banned for selling a joint in 1992, I think it is unfortunate if Thailand doesn't recognise that that is a "spent conviction".

This sort of checking does not allow people to leave their past behind.

Once you are in these databases you are there for LIFE.

No chance to say, " I served my time and now lead a spotless life".

Sharing of data is a very dangerous matter.

This is why there is a dispute between Europe and the USA over passenger list information

at this very point in time.

[AlexLah]

Why is my picture not taken anymore at Suvanna Boem huh....

O yes please next time check in 50 hours before departure as we need to check your prints against our database of 100.000 well known criminals. I am calculating 2 seconds per print to check.

What a joke and again I say it is just to give people a false sense of security.

For those who say that people that are against taking prints are paranoid?

No no no, you are because you think that every ME looking person could be someone willing to blow up a plane or whatever.

First it was WMD, then a mass murderer, Then a terrorist traing camp,then a tyran, and now it is because US cannot let the rich oilfields be owned by people against US policy altough some other person told it was of the growing influence of Iran in the region.

It is time to wake up and start a revolution....

Alex