US warns Russia against striking non-IS groups in Syria

[webfact]

US warns Russia against striking non-IS groups in Syria
By MATTHEW LEE and LOLITA C. BALDOR

WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Wednesday that the Russian airstrikes in Syria appear to have targeted areas that do not include Islamic State fighters, a development which Secretary of State John Kerry said would cause "grave concern" for the United States.

Kerry told the United Nations Security Council that the U.S. would not object to Russians hitting Islamic State or al-Qaida targets, but airstrikes just to strengthen the hand of Syrian President Bashar Assad would be worrisome. Later, after meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov, Kerry said he had spoken about U.S. "concerns about the nature of the targets, the type of targets and the need for clarity with respect for them.

"It is one thing obviously to be targeting ISIL. We are concerned obviously if that is not what is happening," Kerry said.

"It does appear they were in in areas where there probably were not ISIL forces," Carter said of the Russian airstrikes, using an alternative acronym for Islamic State. "The result of this kind of action will inevitably simply be to inflame the civil war in Syria."

Carter said he couldn't confirm reports that the Russian strikes may have hit civilians, but said, "if it occurred, it's yet another reason why this kind of Russian action can and will backfire very badly on Russia."

Carter's comments triggered a dismissive response from Lavrov, who told reporters flatly, "Don't listen to the Pentagon about the Russian strikes" and referred them to the Russian defense ministry website.

The top national security officials spoke as Russia launched its first airstrikes in Syria targeting what it said were Islamic State positions. On Wednesday, some U.S.-backed rebel groups claimed they were hit by Russian airstrikes but those claims could not be confirmed.

A key unanswered question, however, is what the U.S. will do if the Russian airstrikes target moderate Syrian rebel groups working with the coalition in the fight against the Islamic State. Asked directly if the coalition would protect the U.S.-trained or aligned groups, Carter did not answer.

Instead, Carter said the strikes highlight a contradiction in Russia's approach. He said the Russians should not be supporting the Assad government, and their military moves are "doomed to fail."

Carter also expressed disappointment that the Russians did not use formal channels to provide the U.S. with advance notice of its airstrikes, but instead sent an official to the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad for what he characterized as an unprofessional "drop-in."

Kerry said military-to-military discussions to avoid any accidental conflicts could begin as early as Thursday.

"By supporting Assad and seemingly taking on everyone who is fighting Assad, you're taking on the whole rest of the country of Syria," Carter said. "That is not our position. At least some parts of the anti-Assad opposition belong in the political transition going forward. That's why the Russian approach is doomed to fail."

He added that more formal talks with the Russians should get under way "within days." A U.S. official said the meeting would involve a U.S. military officer and a senior Defense Department civilian, and could be either by secure video teleconference or in person. The details are still being worked out.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the new action "calls into question their strategy, because when President Putin and President Obama had the opportunity to meet at the U.N. earlier this week much of their discussion was focused on the need for a political transition inside Syria."

Kerry said Russian operations must not support Assad or interfere with those of the U.S.-led coalition that is already attacking Islamic State targets.

"If Russia's recent actions and those now ongoing reflect a genuine commitment to defeat (the Islamic State) then we are prepared to welcome those efforts and to find a way to de-conflict our operations and thereby multiply military pressure on ISIL and affiliated groups," Kerry said. "But we must not and will not be confused in our fight against ISIL with support for Assad."

"Moreover, we have also made clear that we would have grave concerns should Russia strike areas where ISIL and al-Qaida affiliated targets are not operating," he said. "Strikes of that kind would question Russia's real intentions fighting ISIL or protecting the Assad regime."

Kerry also said the U.S.-led coalition would "dramatically accelerate" its efforts.

Lavrov followed Kerry, saying Russia is ready to "forge standing channels of communication to ensure a maximally effective fight." He listed countries with a key role to play in resolving the chaos in Syria, including Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Qatar, the U.S. and China.

Kerry and Lavrov said they had traded ideas about how to move ahead with a political transition in Syria and would be considering them in the coming days.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-10-01

[hard124get]

Russia has been invited by the legitimate government. There are no moderates, only mercenaries. Who supplied them with humvees and weapons?

[Boon Mee]

Putin owns Obama. Makes him look the inept failure he is...

[jadee]

With this being Russia's first major military action outside the borders of the former Soviet Union since the end of the cold war, it's terrifying that this could develop into a proxy cold war situation. If the US is supporting rebel groups that the Russians then bomb, the two countries are essentially fighting each other indirectly. They'll never form a coalition as they disagree about the fate of Assad but it's hypocritical for one side to accuse the other. Atrocities have been committed by all sides and yet here you have Western countries warning Russia that supporting Assad could mean it shares criminal responsibility for the regime's use of barrel bombs. As if anyone could or would hold the US responsible for the war crimes committed by the anti-regime rebels.

[rethaier]

So when the Turks attack the Kurds, an ally and seemingly, the only people fighting a legitimate ground war against ISIS, the USA says nothing. But when Russia attacks rebels who will be future enemies the USA complains loudly. Assad does not need to be put down, he is a not the major player in this mess rather he is being used to avert attention from who the fight should be against. The USA has no right to determine who should be the leader of any country, that is up to the citizens of the country and even if aasked they should politely refuse to become involved. I am sick of the USA imposing its will by force wherever and whenever they want. Over the years, the USA has been a bigger terrorist than anyone else.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Martti Ahtisaari said in an interview recently that the west rejected an offer by Russia in 2012 for Assad to leave power, because they thought his regime would fall within a couple of months and they would have victory without any strings attached. These facts can be checked in an daily mail (UK) article dated 16 September 2015, I can't give you the link as the website is still banned after last years coup. So the real facts are that the arrogance of the west have costs hundreds of thousands of lives and have given rise to the ISIS/ISIL and are causing mass migration to Europe. At present the estimate is that 600 000 migrants have entered Europe illegally this year with a further 1,4 million to come by the end of 2016. The pressure of this migration will lead to the break up of the EU. The unintended ​results of the US wanting to force Assad out to pave the way for a gas line from the middle east to Europe.

[GeckosDiving]

So when the Turks attack the Kurds, an ally and seemingly, the only people fighting a legitimate ground war against ISIS, the USA says nothing. But when Russia attacks rebels who will be future enemies the USA complains loudly. Assad does not need to be put down, he is a not the major player in this mess rather he is being used to avert attention from who the fight should be against. The USA has no right to determine who should be the leader of any country, that is up to the citizens of the country and even if aasked they should politely refuse to become involved. I am sick of the USA imposing its will by force wherever and whenever they want. Over the years, the USA has been a bigger terrorist than anyone else.

Well actually the Saudis the other day said that there was no way Douchebag Assad was going to stay in power. He has two options, 1) hold elections with out him running or 2) he'll be wiped out . Now I don't know how much you can believe what the Saudis say, but I really hope they follow through with what they said. Then it would be nice if they tracked down another Camel dung hurder in their mist

[ggt]

The World can hardly wait for this US Administration to respond to Russian aggression...maybe draw a few more red lines...lead from behind...throw some wild flowers at the Russians...

Syria could be the poster child for all that is wrong with America's foreign policy under this President...one failed policy after another...

Now we all wait to see what laughable fireside chats Obama will have...to express his disappointment with the Russians in the Ukraine and Syria...and who knows where next...

The lack of a strong US Government Foreign Policy...has caused a prison break of counties with bad intentions...stay tuned for more aggressive actions around the world...

[pkspeaker]

<deleted> the 'moderate' syria rebels, all 5 of them.. and yes there are currently (5) us trained syrian rebels in the field, not 5 battalions and not 5 divisions or 5 'groups' but rather 5 actual people. the rest sold/gave their weapons to alqueda or isis and split. There are no 'moderate' rebels in syria, there is isis, alqueda/al nusra vs. the Syrian Baathest government. If the US does not like assad they should stop all military activity over syria and stop arming alqueda.. 2 messes in afghanistan and iraq are enough.

[TheFishman1]

Russia and China only do what good for them what ever Russia does they do And the rest of the world just talks about it

[NickJ]

Never going to have a nice peaceful democratic middle east. Afghanistan will revert to Taliban domination as soon as most of the US troops are gone. Look at Iraq.....All that area should have just stayed the same. At least Saddam used his big stick as does Assad. ........US bumbling has just led to destbilization and the formation of ISIS. It seems you give any of the people who live in these countries any form of free election the Islamic fundamentalists take over and threaten even larger areas.The only country that has seemed to right it self is Egypt.

[Shiver]

Would this image suit?

[cream]

Funny because it's true.

Putin owns Obama. Makes him look the inept failure he is...

[ABCer]

Ash Carter and Kerry were talking about US concerns. Now I am getting concerned too.

This 'joining forces' of Russia with Western allies in Syria is dangerously serious. Or if you prefer, - seriously dangerous.

There are many of these dangers to consider:

- There are Russian MIGs-31 now flying over Zone of conflict. Plus American allies' jets. This in itself is a bad potentially explosive mix in the skies.

- There is Turkey having joined the fight would be against the ISIS. Essentially they are after the Kurds. Underhand they are supporting ISIS or so Russians believe.

- There is unconfirmed report of Putin giving an ULTIMATUM to Erdogan to stop supporting ISIS in Syria or face breaking diplomatic relations.

- There are American forces in the same area who are trying to help their proteges - various groups fighting Assad who allegedly were trained and armed by USA.

Now if you consider the matter of language used by Carter - maybe I should be not the only one worried?

Let me quote from above OP to illustrate what I'm talking about (or rather Carter is talking about):

"concerns about the nature of the targets, the type of targets and the need for clarity with respect for them."

"if it occurred, it's yet another reason why this kind of Russian action can and will backfire very badly on Russia."

"By supporting Assad and seemingly taking on everyone who is fighting Assad, you're taking on the whole rest of the country of Syria,"

"But we must not and will not be confused in our fight against ISIL with support for Assad."

"Moreover, we have also made clear that we would have grave concerns should Russia strike areas where ISIL and al-Qaida affiliated targets are not operating,"

"Strikes of that kind would question Russia's real intentions fighting ISIL or protecting the Assad regime."

Now, this kind of talk in itself is a very slippery road. It smells of threat which is not a proper way of talking to Russia.

I understand there are many posters here who will immediately try to compare technical characteristics of Raptors to Migs and Su's. Or will compare the number of US Megatons to those of Russians.

Frankly, I am afraid to check it out.

​All I'm saying - the situation is very dangerous. Putin is not Khrushchev and Obama is not JFK. I am really getting concerned.

[Loptr]

The US can warn all they like, although it will fall on deaf ears as their agenda is not the same as Russia's...

Russia's agenda is to preserve Assad's leadership by taking out all of the rebels, ISIS and otherwise, while the US agenda is to take out Assad...

When push comes to shove, the US has no leverage...

[ABCer]

The US can warn all they like, although it will fall on deaf ears as their agenda is not the same as Russia's...

Russia's agenda is to preserve Assad's leadership by taking out all of the rebels, ISIS and otherwise, while the US agenda is to take out Assad...

When push comes to shove, the US has no leverage...

I am still concerned.

Russian, American, French, Turkish jets over one military war zone - all with conflicting agendas, all armed. EXPLOSIVE!

Actually I'm not sure that after all humiliation in the media, after being called "Hitler", after sanctions etc. Putin wouldn't mind to whip Obama's ass over Syria.

[Andaman Al]

At the end of the day Russia knows exactly where the roots of ISIS are. ISIS has sprung into being by well armed, well provisioned 'rebels' from Syria. The Russians know exactly who they are targeting, and to be honest they are targeting the right people. I don't like Putin, but you have to admire the Russians for not following or permitting the BS propaganda in some parts of the world spewed out by the US Government.

[Usernames]

Obama has put the US in its worst geopolitical position since the 1930s. It is worse than the Carter years. Obama and Kerry constantly "surprised." By the "Arab spring." By the Chinese in the South China Sea. By the Russians in Ukraine and, now, Syria. And all the Pentagon and its perfumed generals can worry about is how to put more women into combat. Meanwhile, hordes of people live within the borders of the US who have no allegiance or loyalty to the country. Those that aren't actively hostile to American culture and history are largely indifferent and only interested in seeing what they can suck out of the political carcass economically.

[149er]

is it just me? but who's fighting whom over there? I mean in the media they mentions:

the bad ass ISIS

Assad gov.

FSA

YPG

PKK

Turkey

Iran

US

Russia

Saudi

Hezbollah

Qatar

British

French

Mercinaries

Islamic extremist (*#@! knows how many groups there are)

72 virgins seeking jihadis from every where

thrill and justice seeking volunteer freedom fighter from every where

The Jews? I'm sure there must be more.

One thing for sure ... who ever making the bullets feeding those M-16s and the Kalashnikovs must be laughing all the way to the bank.

[Chicog]

Obama has put the US in its worst geopolitical position since the 1930s. It is worse than the Carter years. Obama and Kerry constantly "surprised." By the "Arab spring." By the Chinese in the South China Sea. By the Russians in Ukraine and, now, Syria. And all the Pentagon and its perfumed generals can worry about is how to put more women into combat. Meanwhile, hordes of people live within the borders of the US who have no allegiance or loyalty to the country. Those that aren't actively hostile to American culture and history are largely indifferent and only interested in seeing what they can suck out of the political carcass economically.

The naivete of some people never fails to amaze me.

Obama has demolished dependence on foreign oil, extracted most of the US troops from two bloodsucking occupations, dumped the Sunni/Shi'a problem on Europe, and as an added bonus punished Putin for Ukraine by deflating his biggest export; as well as conning him into getting involved in an ultimately futile little Middle East adventure of his own - and you really would have thought Russia would know better!

I don't know how much better he could have done.

The bloke deserves a round of applause. It's pure foreign policy genius.

[Usernames]

Obama has put the US in its worst geopolitical position since the 1930s. It is worse than the Carter years. Obama and Kerry constantly "surprised." By the "Arab spring." By the Chinese in the South China Sea. By the Russians in Ukraine and, now, Syria. And all the Pentagon and its perfumed generals can worry about is how to put more women into combat. Meanwhile, hordes of people live within the borders of the US who have no allegiance or loyalty to the country. Those that aren't actively hostile to American culture and history are largely indifferent and only interested in seeing what they can suck out of the political carcass economically.

The naivete of some people never fails to amaze me.

Obama has demolished dependence on foreign oil, extracted most of the US troops from two bloodsucking occupations, dumped the Sunni/Shi'a problem on Europe, and as an added bonus punished Putin for Ukraine by deflating his biggest export; as well as conning him into getting involved in an ultimately futile little Middle East adventure of his own - and you really would have thought Russia would know better!

I don't know how much better he could have done.

The bloke deserves a round of applause. It's pure foreign policy genius.

The cornerstone of US diplomacy for over four decades was to separate and divide the USSSR/Russia from China. Obama has brought them together. A clumsy oaf. And now Russia also has its military gateway to the Mediterranean in Syria, something the European powers fought against for over 200 years. So, just whose side are you really applauding for?

[smudger1951]

Did anyone think Russia was going to let their mate Assad go down and lose their med sea port facilties. If Iran puts ground forces in there as well as advisors Obamas nucleur limiation deal must surely be history not forgetting Netanyahu. The migrant exodus will surely escalate as any hope of peace slips away anywhere in the region.

[Harsh Jones]

Did anyone think Russia was going to let their mate Assad go down and lose their med sea port facilties. If Iran puts ground forces in there as well as advisors Obamas nucleur limiation deal must surely be history not forgetting Netanyahu. The migrant exodus will surely escalate as any hope of peace slips away anywhere in the region.

Russia hung Assad out to dry for quite awhile. I am sure he did this to get the best deal out of Assad. People say this war will cost Russia a ton. But you have to think Putin made a deal that will support Russia economically for its trouble of saving his ass.

[hard124get]

So when the Turks attack the Kurds, an ally and seemingly, the only people fighting a legitimate ground war against ISIS, the USA says nothing. But when Russia attacks rebels who will be future enemies the USA complains loudly. Assad does not need to be put down, he is a not the major player in this mess rather he is being used to avert attention from who the fight should be against. The USA has no right to determine who should be the leader of any country, that is up to the citizens of the country and even if aasked they should politely refuse to become involved. I am sick of the USA imposing its will by force wherever and whenever they want. Over the years, the USA has been a bigger terrorist than anyone else.

Well actually the Saudis the other day said that there was no way Douchebag Assad was going to stay in power. He has two options, 1) hold elections with out him running or 2) he'll be wiped out . Now I don't know how much you can believe what the Saudis say, but I really hope they follow through with what they said. Then it would be nice if they tracked down another Camel dung hurder in their mist

I think I can help you out here. You cannot believe anything the Saudis say.

[Chicog]

Obama has put the US in its worst geopolitical position since the 1930s. It is worse than the Carter years. Obama and Kerry constantly "surprised." By the "Arab spring." By the Chinese in the South China Sea. By the Russians in Ukraine and, now, Syria. And all the Pentagon and its perfumed generals can worry about is how to put more women into combat. Meanwhile, hordes of people live within the borders of the US who have no allegiance or loyalty to the country. Those that aren't actively hostile to American culture and history are largely indifferent and only interested in seeing what they can suck out of the political carcass economically.

The naivete of some people never fails to amaze me.

Obama has demolished dependence on foreign oil, extracted most of the US troops from two bloodsucking occupations, dumped the Sunni/Shi'a problem on Europe, and as an added bonus punished Putin for Ukraine by deflating his biggest export; as well as conning him into getting involved in an ultimately futile little Middle East adventure of his own - and you really would have thought Russia would know better!

I don't know how much better he could have done.

The bloke deserves a round of applause. It's pure foreign policy genius.

The cornerstone of US diplomacy for over four decades was to separate and divide the USSSR/Russia from China. Obama has brought them together. A clumsy oaf. And now Russia also has its military gateway to the Mediterranean in Syria, something the European powers fought against for over 200 years. So, just whose side are you really applauding for?

They have never been divided. They've always backed each other at the UN. And the first BRICS talks were in 2006.

And as for "Now Russia also has its military gateway", what planet are you on?

It's been there since the cold war.

And it may be their only presence in the Med but in military terms it isn't much. A few well aimed cruise missiles and it would be ash.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Chicog

[Steely Dan]

The irony! The U.S record when it comes to distinguishing moderates from extremists has been abysmal so to warn the Russians against making the same mistake is a tad hypocritical.

http://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Obama-Russia-failing-to-distinguish-between-ISIS-and-moderate-insurgents-in-Syria-419799

This is not to say I trust Russian motives btw.

[Pakboong]

Ash Carter and Kerry were talking about US concerns. Now I am getting concerned too.

This 'joining forces' of Russia with Western allies in Syria is dangerously serious. Or if you prefer, - seriously dangerous.

There are many of these dangers to consider:

- There are Russian MIGs-31 now flying over Zone of conflict. Plus American allies' jets. This in itself is a bad potentially explosive mix in the skies.

- There is Turkey having joined the fight would be against the ISIS. Essentially they are after the Kurds. Underhand they are supporting ISIS or so Russians believe.

- There is unconfirmed report of Putin giving an ULTIMATUM to Erdogan to stop supporting ISIS in Syria or face breaking diplomatic relations.

- There are American forces in the same area who are trying to help their proteges - various groups fighting Assad who allegedly were trained and armed by USA.

Now if you consider the matter of language used by Carter - maybe I should be not the only one worried?

Let me quote from above OP to illustrate what I'm talking about (or rather Carter is talking about):

"concerns about the nature of the targets, the type of targets and the need for clarity with respect for them."

"if it occurred, it's yet another reason why this kind of Russian action can and will backfire very badly on Russia."

"By supporting Assad and seemingly taking on everyone who is fighting Assad, you're taking on the whole rest of the country of Syria,"

"But we must not and will not be confused in our fight against ISIL with support for Assad."

"Moreover, we have also made clear that we would have grave concerns should Russia strike areas where ISIL and al-Qaida affiliated targets are not operating,"

"Strikes of that kind would question Russia's real intentions fighting ISIL or protecting the Assad regime."

Now, this kind of talk in itself is a very slippery road. It smells of threat which is not a proper way of talking to Russia.

I understand there are many posters here who will immediately try to compare technical characteristics of Raptors to Migs and Su's. Or will compare the number of US Megatons to those of Russians.

Frankly, I am afraid to check it out.

​All I'm saying - the situation is very dangerous. Putin is not Khrushchev and Obama is not JFK. I am really getting concerned.

There are reports that, because of Russian air strikes, ISIS is moving its families over the border into Iraq. Something they did not have to worry about with the Western bombing. I wasn't aware there were families involved. Just points out that there is much we do not know. Russia is supporting an ally who has always been their ally who have invited them into their air space and land mass. I am pretty sure they have not invited any western nations into that same space. We either adhere to international law or we don't. The "don't" part is the slippery slope IMO.

[Usernames]

Obama has put the US in its worst geopolitical position since the 1930s. It is worse than the Carter years. Obama and Kerry constantly "surprised." By the "Arab spring." By the Chinese in the South China Sea. By the Russians in Ukraine and, now, Syria. And all the Pentagon and its perfumed generals can worry about is how to put more women into combat. Meanwhile, hordes of people live within the borders of the US who have no allegiance or loyalty to the country. Those that aren't actively hostile to American culture and history are largely indifferent and only interested in seeing what they can suck out of the political carcass economically.

The naivete of some people never fails to amaze me.

Obama has demolished dependence on foreign oil, extracted most of the US troops from two bloodsucking occupations, dumped the Sunni/Shi'a problem on Europe, and as an added bonus punished Putin for Ukraine by deflating his biggest export; as well as conning him into getting involved in an ultimately futile little Middle East adventure of his own - and you really would have thought Russia would know better!

I don't know how much better he could have done.

The bloke deserves a round of applause. It's pure foreign policy genius.

The cornerstone of US diplomacy for over four decades was to separate and divide the USSSR/Russia from China. Obama has brought them together. A clumsy oaf. And now Russia also has its military gateway to the Mediterranean in Syria, something the European powers fought against for over 200 years. So, just whose side are you really applauding for?

They have never been divided. They've always backed each other at the UN. And the first BRICS talks were in 2006.

And as for "Now Russia also has its military gateway", what planet are you on?

It's been there since the cold war.

And it may be their only presence in the Med but in military terms it isn't much. A few well aimed cruise missiles and it would be ash.

Sounds as if you've been watching Fox News again.

[Pakboong]

this is satellite image on the Russians in Syria. Nothing odd about it other than we could not seem to find similar images when the Russians were supposed to be in Ukraine. The Russians have been invited in. It is hard not to notice that Russia is adhering to the letter of international law. This is US satellite imagery.

[Chicog]

Obama has put the US in its worst geopolitical position since the 1930s. It is worse than the Carter years. Obama and Kerry constantly "surprised." By the "Arab spring." By the Chinese in the South China Sea. By the Russians in Ukraine and, now, Syria. And all the Pentagon and its perfumed generals can worry about is how to put more women into combat. Meanwhile, hordes of people live within the borders of the US who have no allegiance or loyalty to the country. Those that aren't actively hostile to American culture and history are largely indifferent and only interested in seeing what they can suck out of the political carcass economically.

The naivete of some people never fails to amaze me.

Obama has demolished dependence on foreign oil, extracted most of the US troops from two bloodsucking occupations, dumped the Sunni/Shi'a problem on Europe, and as an added bonus punished Putin for Ukraine by deflating his biggest export; as well as conning him into getting involved in an ultimately futile little Middle East adventure of his own - and you really would have thought Russia would know better!

I don't know how much better he could have done.

The bloke deserves a round of applause. It's pure foreign policy genius.

The cornerstone of US diplomacy for over four decades was to separate and divide the USSSR/Russia from China. Obama has brought them together. A clumsy oaf. And now Russia also has its military gateway to the Mediterranean in Syria, something the European powers fought against for over 200 years. So, just whose side are you really applauding for?

They have never been divided. They've always backed each other at the UN. And the first BRICS talks were in 2006.

And as for "Now Russia also has its military gateway", what planet are you on?

It's been there since the cold war.

And it may be their only presence in the Med but in military terms it isn't much. A few well aimed cruise missiles and it would be ash.

Sounds as if you've been watching Fox News again.

Sounds as if you don't have much of a clue what Faux news are saying.