Refurbishing 5 Year Twin Home

[Millenial]

Ok we were/still considering purchasing a twin however the purchase price is roughly 3,9mb before being built, and will likely cost us an additional 2-3mb rebuild to our style later on without all the interior costs (furniture, fixings, tiles etc)

Anyway over the last few days we have been looking around for properties and came across this property that has stood empty for 5 years and we have deposited a hold fee , the sale price is 1,6mb, actually it could be a blessing or a night mare, but its perfect in the way that its a shell, as it is ready to be remoulded in our requirement (where the costs come in) where as the idea of buying a newly finished property we would be paying for the style/fittings/fixtures then ripping them out and modelling in our style so wasting funds.

Anyway roughly 140SQM / 100SQM and in the same area, Twin Home also,.

Couple of questions... (also keep of your high horses, we are considering and asking for estimates/approx prices and recommendations), house is in Phuket, will be kept for family when they visit.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Millenial

[Millenial]

Jungle

[Millenial]

Obliviously we have the budgets for the interior design side and furniture and kitchen etc but these areas were never considered so looking for ball point figures for these costs before we commit.

[Millenial]

Also ref http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2015/post-226503-0-08038200-1443712161_thumb.png we are going to replace the entire back door if we buy with french doors, do you need a specialist to break the wall as currently some is window/brick and a chunk of that will be taken up by the new french doors

[Millenial]

Is it possible to extend the height of the wall (1/2 - double) when the posts are used up like this (it will be block rendered) or is it a new wall???

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2015/post-226503-0-64806000-1443712190_thumb.jpg

[HampiK]

Nice pictures.. but it seems like a lot of work to do. I am not a proffesional but i asking myself would it not be cheaper to build up a new house instead to renovate an existing, if so many things has to be changed?

Or is the main reason to buy because of the land (area)?

[Mudcrab]

I'll do it for 30 million.

[Millenial]

In an ideal world yes, however land in this particular area is scarce and generally at 4mb per rai and not possible to break the land down from say 10 rai, its all about location.... so yes ideally a new build would solve a lot of our problems/concerns but its not practical...

[Mark Dietrich]

Hire a professional property inspector he can advise you every step in the process. You will save the fee many times over in getting a quality investment.

Just Google property inspections Thailand

[bazza40]

In your shoes, I'd go looking around Thai Watsadu or similar for less expensive fittings.

Electricians, plumbers and the like are surprisingly cheap by Western standards.

Think you really need a Thai builder with reasonable English to quote on renovation. If you have Thai friends, they could steer you to a good builder.

[Mark Dietrich]

Www.homeinspectionsphuket.com

[email protected]

[khunPer]

Would not surprise me, it will be same price or more, as building a new shell – you will need to bang a lot down; or up when floors...

About electric installation and wires:

I’ve before heard about abandoned villas where fittings and wires have been removed – a friend of mine was offered an otherwise well constructed house cheap in Hua Hin, but gave it up, as it would be cheaper to build a new concrete shell and a roof on top.

Often wires in Thai electrical installations are tied in star-points boxed over the gypsum ceiling – can just be the copper twisted and some tape around – so easy to draw copper wires out, which represent some value, but impossible to reinstall without access to all joint-boxes.

Check if you can get up under the roof, and you have access to top of ceiling – the house seem to have only one floor. Check if there are electric pipes and boxes up there – preferably with or by a professional electrician that can say if he would redo the installation.

About the concrete shell and roof:

Get some expert to check condition of shell and foundation; and also the roof construction, any wood, steel and tiles. In my opinion you shall have a very well made construction, before it’s worth spending too much money redoing it; of course depending what you will renew, but judging after photos that could be anything from all to just new bathrooms and kitchen; maybe some (or all) windows (and slide doors); and can floor tiles be reused...?

Compare the property price with raw land prices – it can still be a bargain to buy just for the land, and let a bulldozer clear the plot.

You seem to have a budget in the area up to 7 million baht (3.9 + 2-3 million), and the property in question shall cost 1.6 million. That gives you roughly 5 million baht budget for a new house – if you let some 300k to 400k for clearing the old house, some of the stuff may even be sold for money – and with something around 140 to 150 square meters in mind, you will have around 35,000 baht available per square meter.

Prices vary a bit in different areas, but if you count 20,000 to 25,000 baht a square meter, including finish, you can have a (very) nice house after “farang”-standard, however not outstanding luxury. I build for about 20k pr. Sq.m. some few years ago, including comfort block double walls, inverter aircons, high quality roof, uPVC outside doors and windows, all hardware and fittings, European kitchen with hardware, etc. Price will be little higher today, but also depending of your choice of materials – i.e. you can have nice floor titles for 400 baht a sq.m. or sand stone floors for 2,500 baht a sq.m. Keeping construction around (or under) 25k pr. Sq.m. leaves you with 1 million or more baht for furniture – or just spending less money...

You outside wall shall be possible to build higher – I’ve done it – with the usual Thai blocks, they are not heavy; you may need to bang the plaster down on the old wall, to make a new even and nice looking instead. Painting the plaster wall will make it last longer and look nice. Let plaster cure for minimum a month, preferably three, use two layers of a good primer, and then two or three layers a quality paint – if you use good materials, the paintjob can last looking nice for 10+ years.

Wish you good luck with your project.

[casualbiker]

I'm confused about the idea of buying a new house that isn't finished then ripping out the stuff and replacing it. Surely talk to the developer and get all your requirements done in the initial build. Just adjust the price difference for the products.. ie: standard toilet cost 3k baht against your gold plated Japanese bum rubbing type toilet @ 30k - 3k = 27k extra

[Jonathon]

Get a qualified Engineer to do a structural survey before you go any further. It seems to me that it could be an expensive project if you have no knowledge of what is required and no capability to do some of the work yourself or at least supervise it..

Many so-called "tradesmen" here might claim to have years experience but often that "experience" is only of doing the job wrong. Most decent tradesmen are already working on large construction projects in Bangkok.

Even then the "right first time" approach adopted elsewhere too often translates into "done it 3 times already, it will have to do".

[farangmick]

Would not surprise me, it will be same price or more, as building a new shell – you will need to bang a lot down; or up when floors...

About electric installation and wires:

I’ve before heard about abandoned villas where fittings and wires have been removed – a friend of mine was offered an otherwise well constructed house cheap in Hua Hin, but gave it up, as it would be cheaper to build a new concrete shell and a roof on top.

Often wires in Thai electrical installations are tied in star-points boxed over the gypsum ceiling – can just be the copper twisted and some tape around – so easy to draw copper wires out, which represent some value, but impossible to reinstall without access to all joint-boxes.

Check if you can get up under the roof, and you have access to top of ceiling – the house seem to have only one floor. Check if there are electric pipes and boxes up there – preferably with or by a professional electrician that can say if he would redo the installation.

About the concrete shell and roof:

Get some expert to check condition of shell and foundation; and also the roof construction, any wood, steel and tiles. In my opinion you shall have a very well made construction, before it’s worth spending too much money redoing it; of course depending what you will renew, but judging after photos that could be anything from all to just new bathrooms and kitchen; maybe some (or all) windows (and slide doors); and can floor tiles be reused...?

Compare the property price with raw land prices – it can still be a bargain to buy just for the land, and let a bulldozer clear the plot.

You seem to have a budget in the area up to 7 million baht (3.9 + 2-3 million), and the property in question shall cost 1.6 million. That gives you roughly 5 million baht budget for a new house – if you let some 300k to 400k for clearing the old house, some of the stuff may even be sold for money – and with something around 140 to 150 square meters in mind, you will have around 35,000 baht available per square meter.

Prices vary a bit in different areas, but if you count 20,000 to 25,000 baht a square meter, including finish, you can have a (very) nice house after “farang”-standard, however not outstanding luxury. I build for about 20k pr. Sq.m. some few years ago, including comfort block double walls, inverter aircons, high quality roof, uPVC outside doors and windows, all hardware and fittings, European kitchen with hardware, etc. Price will be little higher today, but also depending of your choice of materials – i.e. you can have nice floor titles for 400 baht a sq.m. or sand stone floors for 2,500 baht a sq.m. Keeping construction around (or under) 25k pr. Sq.m. leaves you with 1 million or more baht for furniture – or just spending less money...

You outside wall shall be possible to build higher – I’ve done it – with the usual Thai blocks, they are not heavy; you may need to bang the plaster down on the old wall, to make a new even and nice looking instead. Painting the plaster wall will make it last longer and look nice. Let plaster cure for minimum a month, preferably three, use two layers of a good primer, and then two or three layers a quality paint – if you use good materials, the paintjob can last looking nice for 10+ years.

Wish you good luck with your project.

KhunPer, you sound like you know what you are talking about. Can you recommend a good brand of exterior paint. I had mine repainted four years ago. Now looks shabby and needs doing again. Last time I left it up to the builder, but I would sooner pay a lot more for a finish that lasts. Thanks

[Don Mega]

I'm confused about the idea of buying a new house that isn't finished then ripping out the stuff and replacing it. Surely talk to the developer and get all your requirements done in the initial build. Just adjust the price difference for the products.. ie: standard toilet cost 3k baht against your gold plated Japanese bum rubbing type toilet @ 30k - 3k = 27k extra

I'm confused how you come to the conclusion it is a new house, did you look at the pictures ?

[casualbiker]

I'm confused about the idea of buying a new house that isn't finished then ripping out the stuff and replacing it. Surely talk to the developer and get all your requirements done in the initial build. Just adjust the price difference for the products.. ie: standard toilet cost 3k baht against your gold plated Japanese bum rubbing type toilet @ 30k - 3k = 27k extra

I'm confused how you come to the conclusion it is a new house, did you look at the pictures ?

Yup, they were of the old house he's looking at to replace the idea of the new house he was looking at ( at least I think, he is all over the place in his writing style)

This is his opening paragraph " Ok we were/still considering purchasing a twin however the purchase price is roughly 3,9mb before being built, and will likely cost us an additional 2-3mb rebuild to our style later on without all the interior costs (furniture, fixings, tiles etc) "

The "before being built" led me to believe it that was a new build!

[khunPer]

Sorry - doubble posted

Edited October 3, 2015 by khunPer

[khunPer]

Would not surprise me, it will be same price or more, as building a new shell – you will need to bang a lot down; or up when floors...

About electric installation and wires:

I’ve before heard about abandoned villas where fittings and wires have been removed – a friend of mine was offered an otherwise well constructed house cheap in Hua Hin, but gave it up, as it would be cheaper to build a new concrete shell and a roof on top.

Often wires in Thai electrical installations are tied in star-points boxed over the gypsum ceiling – can just be the copper twisted and some tape around – so easy to draw copper wires out, which represent some value, but impossible to reinstall without access to all joint-boxes.

Check if you can get up under the roof, and you have access to top of ceiling – the house seem to have only one floor. Check if there are electric pipes and boxes up there – preferably with or by a professional electrician that can say if he would redo the installation.

About the concrete shell and roof:

Get some expert to check condition of shell and foundation; and also the roof construction, any wood, steel and tiles. In my opinion you shall have a very well made construction, before it’s worth spending too much money redoing it; of course depending what you will renew, but judging after photos that could be anything from all to just new bathrooms and kitchen; maybe some (or all) windows (and slide doors); and can floor tiles be reused...?

Compare the property price with raw land prices – it can still be a bargain to buy just for the land, and let a bulldozer clear the plot.

You seem to have a budget in the area up to 7 million baht (3.9 + 2-3 million), and the property in question shall cost 1.6 million. That gives you roughly 5 million baht budget for a new house – if you let some 300k to 400k for clearing the old house, some of the stuff may even be sold for money – and with something around 140 to 150 square meters in mind, you will have around 35,000 baht available per square meter.

Prices vary a bit in different areas, but if you count 20,000 to 25,000 baht a square meter, including finish, you can have a (very) nice house after “farang”-standard, however not outstanding luxury. I build for about 20k pr. Sq.m. some few years ago, including comfort block double walls, inverter aircons, high quality roof, uPVC outside doors and windows, all hardware and fittings, European kitchen with hardware, etc. Price will be little higher today, but also depending of your choice of materials – i.e. you can have nice floor titles for 400 baht a sq.m. or sand stone floors for 2,500 baht a sq.m. Keeping construction around (or under) 25k pr. Sq.m. leaves you with 1 million or more baht for furniture – or just spending less money...

You outside wall shall be possible to build higher – I’ve done it – with the usual Thai blocks, they are not heavy; you may need to bang the plaster down on the old wall, to make a new even and nice looking instead. Painting the plaster wall will make it last longer and look nice. Let plaster cure for minimum a month, preferably three, use two layers of a good primer, and then two or three layers a quality paint – if you use good materials, the paintjob can last looking nice for 10+ years.

Wish you good luck with your project.

KhunPer, you sound like you know what you are talking about. Can you recommend a good brand of exterior paint. I had mine repainted four years ago. Now looks shabby and needs doing again. Last time I left it up to the builder, but I would sooner pay a lot more for a finish that lasts. Thanks

Many thanks...

I used TOA paint, a Thai brand that seems to have good products, available from almost every building construction supplier, and chains like Home Mart and Home Pro. A good friend of mine is director in a painting company in our common home country, and he says that you can get excellent paint in Thailand; however, workers can cause a bad paint job.

For cement (plaster walls, in and out) I used TOA Quick Primer, 2 coats with one day (or more) between each coat. If fresh plaster, let it whenever possible cure 1 to 3 month before adding primer; it’s not a question of “drying” (water), but the chemical curing process in the cement (my painter friend pointed out). He also said you should sandpaper the plaster softly to remove sharp sand grains, if not skim coated.

For redoing old paint, TOA says that you can add Quick Primer on top of old paint. However, make sure that all lose paint is removed and the surface is clean. If me, I would first sandpaper the old paint – just soft, no hard pressure, with a not too fine, nor too course sandpaper – to remove all loose particles and give a better binding base for the primer; flush / wash the walls to remove dust and let dry before adding first coat. If the old paintjob don’t bind correctly to the plaster, I would sandpaper all old paint off and more-or-less start from scratch, as a new coat of paint will not last if the “foundation” is bad.

TOA has a new “ExtraWet” primer, which may be worth consider for base level or like exposed to water, to prevent moisture and algae. I don’t know how that will work on top of old paint, TOA states it’s both for deteriorated/chalky surface and fresh new concrete.

For paint I chose TOA SuperShield acrylic semi-gloss; because I read that they used SuperShield for Baiyoke Sky in Bangkok, and I presume they don’t want to repaint a 300+ meter tall tower every second year. TOA states that the paint is “self cleaning”, TOA also gives a 10-year warranty (whatever that means, don’t know conditions or limitations). I wanted matt paint, but chose Semi-gloss, because my painter friend said it’s a (much) better protection, and that it will soon appear like matt in Thai weather conditions; he was correct. I gave 3 coats, one a day over three days, however the recommended two coats may be enough.

My painter friend was down here when we started the paintjob, and he showed us how to do. I was surprised how must paint he had on a roller, slowly adding it on (no splashing all over), and there it sat with perfect coverage; I would have used less paint and probably worked a lot harder (with some splashing). My friend said: »Per, It’s the paint that is going to work – not you...!«

I used rollers for all paint jobs; however first brush at corners and edges. Most important was, that I taught the Thai workers to cover all frames and edges to protect other stuff, and make it look nice. Paint cover tape seems difficult to find – tried the paper tape stuff from both Home Mart and Home Pro, but after a (very) short while the tape removes the paint it’s glued on and supposed to protect, and if removed before it damages the paint underneath, the fresh paint it should cover may not be dry enough and get jagged edges. After intensive search I found a quality paper tape that works perfect and can sit for several days, in one on the local building material suppliers (seems like not part of a chain). The tape is named “Lion Brand, Paper Adhesive Tape” and made by Kamoi Kakosi Co. Ltd., Tokyo, Japan.

Hope this info may help.

My paint has been sitting now for almost 6 years and still looks fresh – the house is beachfront and exposed to monsoon, so fairly rough conditions – my almost neighbor that build a luxury house about same time as me, had the painting as part of the building construction contract. I noticed they used a foreign paint brand that I had tested, and rejected. The actual paintjob was done by some of the construction workers. Before one year they had to repaint those parts of the house, most exposed to sea wind, as there was only some of the white primer left. The building constructor had to redo it under warranty, so his Project Manager came in to me and asked what I had done, since our paint was still perfect...

Tried to find comparable examples, this is the best I can do from 2010 till 2015, the monsoon exposed side...

Edited October 3, 2015 by khunPer

[donx]

Millennial, excuse my ignorance but what is a twin home? Is it the same as a duplex?

[Crossy]

Millennial, excuse my ignorance but what is a twin home? Is it the same as a duplex?

It's a side-by-side duplex, what we Brits would call a semi (or semi-detached) house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-detached