Gun control debate in the spotlight following Oregon campus shootings

[NanLaew]

Oh, that's OK then, you can shoot your neighbors if you live in a trailer park!

Of course not. But it is much more likely to happen in a trailer park or a ghetto. Think about low-income, inner-city neighborhoods, or the southern backwoods and the like (...queue theme from Deliverance)

[planemad]

Nanlaew, of course you are quite right in what you say, sorry, I was being rather flippant, however, your point does emphasize the fact that guns are just too easy to get which I believe almost entourages a rather nonchalant attitude towards their safe keeping.

RIP little girl, such a waste!

[lostboy]

I will be happy to enlighten you but I doubt you will find it any less offensive than my original response.

I have been a member of this forum going on 13 years so I consider myself well versed in which nationalities are apt to take a particular position on gun control. As you might recall there have been a plethora of such threads in recent years.

The overwhelming attitude towards the Second Amendment is a mixture of ridicule and scorn from many forum members emanating from the nations of England, Australia, New Zealand and the partners of the EU. The liberal progressive attitude is the lowly Americans have no idea what they are doing and somehow are threatening the well being of the world with the US' right to bear arms, notwithstanding the fact most of the critics of the Second Amendment have never been in the US, never lived in the US and have no plans to ever visit the US.

Nothing seems to be at fault except the weapons industry and the lack of laws. No fault lies with the medical profession for their confidentiality rules, the entertainment industry for their violent games or Hollywood for their graphic violence in movies.

First and foremost is, nobody seems to think the parents should bear any responsibility for the actions of their offspring who have turned against society and decided to mass murder innocent people. There doesn't appear to be any soul searching on their part trying to figure out where they went wrong and what they might have been able to do to avoid tragedies such as this.

The interview I watched on CNN with the shooter's father was blaming the availability of guns as the sole reason his son went south on humanity.

And this, kind sir, is the general attitude that is voiced on this forum by members of those nations mentioned above. It's all the fault of the gun owners and gun laws.

You might want to rethink what you consider to be vile and odious.

How about the murder of nine innocent young people by a crazed maladjusted individual as a starter?

Agree with you on one point, many non-americans don't understand the obsession with the right to bear arms. I'd go even further though, and say that many Americans don't understand that obsession either. And I have not seen convincing arguments in favor of that right, only arguments that show a limited point of view.

Regarding your implied point 'know the area and you're allowed to discuss on it', I have been to the US, so following your reasoning am allowed to discuss it. I've even been to Yankee and Confederate areas, so am allowed to discuss on that. Hell, I've even been to Israel, multiple times, so I'm allowed to discuss on that as well, ever been to Israel?

Yep. I've been all over.

If you wish, you might want to check my posts and see how many I have made in the many threads on the forum dealing with Scotland's break with the UK and the UK break with the EU.

I used to visit Scotland for golf vacations and drove from London to Scotland many times. Do those trips qualify me for an in-depth conversation about the secession matters?

I think not, so I choose to keep my mouth shut when it comes to matters that I have little knowledge of or personal concern about.

That little piece of advice might cover a multitude of posts and posters that somehow believe a brief visit to the US qualifies them as an expert on life in the US.

One thing that is being tragically overlooked in all this discussion on the school shootings and mass murders is this simple fact...

This really isn't a gun control issue. It is a mental health issue.

Come on Charles. You know very well this is straight of the right wing think tank's play book on talking points to divert the gun control debate. Pure idealogical bs.

John Oliver doesn't agree with you:

"The vast majority of mentally ill people are nonviolent and the vast majority of gun violence is committed by non-mentally ill people. In fact, mentally ill people are far likelier to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-oliver-mental-health_56124040e4b076812702757e?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000030

I believe he has a point. The death of human beings by gun violence is a universal issue. Funny how some 'patriots' hold that the 1st Amendment is inviolable except when talking about the 2nd Amendment and then no-one has the right to any opinion contrary to the status quo.

Please feel free to start attacking the media source and responding with excerpts from the NY Post or Breitbart.

[chuckd]

I will be happy to enlighten you but I doubt you will find it any less offensive than my original response.

I have been a member of this forum going on 13 years so I consider myself well versed in which nationalities are apt to take a particular position on gun control. As you might recall there have been a plethora of such threads in recent years.

The overwhelming attitude towards the Second Amendment is a mixture of ridicule and scorn from many forum members emanating from the nations of England, Australia, New Zealand and the partners of the EU. The liberal progressive attitude is the lowly Americans have no idea what they are doing and somehow are threatening the well being of the world with the US' right to bear arms, notwithstanding the fact most of the critics of the Second Amendment have never been in the US, never lived in the US and have no plans to ever visit the US.

Nothing seems to be at fault except the weapons industry and the lack of laws. No fault lies with the medical profession for their confidentiality rules, the entertainment industry for their violent games or Hollywood for their graphic violence in movies.

First and foremost is, nobody seems to think the parents should bear any responsibility for the actions of their offspring who have turned against society and decided to mass murder innocent people. There doesn't appear to be any soul searching on their part trying to figure out where they went wrong and what they might have been able to do to avoid tragedies such as this.

The interview I watched on CNN with the shooter's father was blaming the availability of guns as the sole reason his son went south on humanity.

And this, kind sir, is the general attitude that is voiced on this forum by members of those nations mentioned above. It's all the fault of the gun owners and gun laws.

You might want to rethink what you consider to be vile and odious.

How about the murder of nine innocent young people by a crazed maladjusted individual as a starter?

Agree with you on one point, many non-americans don't understand the obsession with the right to bear arms. I'd go even further though, and say that many Americans don't understand that obsession either. And I have not seen convincing arguments in favor of that right, only arguments that show a limited point of view.

Regarding your implied point 'know the area and you're allowed to discuss on it', I have been to the US, so following your reasoning am allowed to discuss it. I've even been to Yankee and Confederate areas, so am allowed to discuss on that. Hell, I've even been to Israel, multiple times, so I'm allowed to discuss on that as well, ever been to Israel?

Yep. I've been all over.

If you wish, you might want to check my posts and see how many I have made in the many threads on the forum dealing with Scotland's break with the UK and the UK break with the EU.

I used to visit Scotland for golf vacations and drove from London to Scotland many times. Do those trips qualify me for an in-depth conversation about the secession matters?

I think not, so I choose to keep my mouth shut when it comes to matters that I have little knowledge of or personal concern about.

That little piece of advice might cover a multitude of posts and posters that somehow believe a brief visit to the US qualifies them as an expert on life in the US.

One thing that is being tragically overlooked in all this discussion on the school shootings and mass murders is this simple fact...

This really isn't a gun control issue. It is a mental health issue.

Come on Charles. You know very well this is straight of the right wing think tank's play book on talking points to divert the gun control debate. Pure idealogical bs.

John Oliver doesn't agree with you:

"The vast majority of mentally ill people are nonviolent and the vast majority of gun violence is committed by non-mentally ill people. In fact, mentally ill people are far likelier to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-oliver-mental-health_56124040e4b076812702757e?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000030

I believe he has a point. The death of human beings by gun violence is a universal issue. Funny how some 'patriots' hold that the 1st Amendment is inviolable except when talking about the 2nd Amendment and then no-one has the right to any opinion contrary to the status quo.

Please feel free to start attacking the media source and responding with excerpts from the NY Post or Breitbart.

You are certainly living up to your user name. Congratulations for being so omniscient in advance.

Firstly let me apologize for the delay in getting back with you. It was rather late when I read your post and I had a 90 day report to make today so I have not had the time to respond appropriately.

Now to your post.

1. I have never had the dubious pleasure of listening to John Oliver, having never heard of him. However since your brilliant post informing me that he disagrees with my position on the medical industry and mass shooters, I decided to look him up. I now find out he is a British comedian who has worked with Jon Stewart. In my opinion, which I am sure he will disagree with, that already gives him two strikes.

In short, I really couldn't care less whether some empty suit named John Oliver agrees or disagrees with something I might compose. Strike three.

2. Now, your trying to use Huffington Post as a reliable unbiased source and telling other posters what sources you find repugnant ranks right up there with my own personal opinion about John Oliver. The Huffington Post is merely an extra liberal extension of the Democratic Party and the Hillary campaign. Having said all that, I will continue using links I find useful and continue disregarding those that are from the far left field of liberalism.

3. Since you, and your guru John Oliver, seem to believe the mental health industry has no dog in this fight, let me provide just a few links for you to read and digest:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

35 School shooters/school related violence committed by those under the influence of psychiatric drugs

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html#ixzz3nsrSFIto

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Medicated to Death: SSRIs and Mass Killings

https://www.corbettreport.com/medicated-to-death-ssris-and-mass-killings/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

SSRI Stories

http://ssristories.org/

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally there is this little snippet relating to the shooter from Oregon.

"There are a number of indications that Harper-Mercer had mental health or behavioral issues. His screen name on some social media sites was "lithium love." Lithium is used as a psychiatric medication.

Harper-Mercer graduated from The Switzer Learning Center in 2009, according to a graduation listing in The Daily Breeze newspaper. Switzer Center is a private, nonprofit school in Torrance, California, geared for special education students with a range of issues from learning disabilities, health problems and autism or Asperger's Disorder, according to the school's website.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/new_details_emerge_on_umpqua_c.html

[lostboy]

Yep. I've been all over.

If you wish, you might want to check my posts and see how many I have made in the many threads on the forum dealing with Scotland's break with the UK and the UK break with the EU.

I used to visit Scotland for golf vacations and drove from London to Scotland many times. Do those trips qualify me for an in-depth conversation about the secession matters?

I think not, so I choose to keep my mouth shut when it comes to matters that I have little knowledge of or personal concern about.

That little piece of advice might cover a multitude of posts and posters that somehow believe a brief visit to the US qualifies them as an expert on life in the US.

One thing that is being tragically overlooked in all this discussion on the school shootings and mass murders is this simple fact...

This really isn't a gun control issue. It is a mental health issue.

Come on Charles. You know very well this is straight of the right wing think tank's play book on talking points to divert the gun control debate. Pure idealogical bs.

John Oliver doesn't agree with you:

"The vast majority of mentally ill people are nonviolent and the vast majority of gun violence is committed by non-mentally ill people. In fact, mentally ill people are far likelier to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrators."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-oliver-mental-health_56124040e4b076812702757e?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000030

I believe he has a point. The death of human beings by gun violence is a universal issue. Funny how some 'patriots' hold that the 1st Amendment is inviolable except when talking about the 2nd Amendment and then no-one has the right to any opinion contrary to the status quo.

Please feel free to start attacking the media source and responding with excerpts from the NY Post or Breitbart.

You are certainly living up to your user name. Congratulations for being so omniscient in advance.

Firstly let me apologize for the delay in getting back with you. It was rather late when I read your post and I had a 90 day report to make today so I have not had the time to respond appropriately.

Now to your post.

1. I have never had the dubious pleasure of listening to John Oliver, having never heard of him. However since your brilliant post informing me that he disagrees with my position on the medical industry and mass shooters, I decided to look him up. I now find out he is a British comedian who has worked with Jon Stewart. In my opinion, which I am sure he will disagree with, that already gives him two strikes.

In short, I really couldn't care less whether some empty suit named John Oliver agrees or disagrees with something I might compose. Strike three.

2. Now, your trying to use Huffington Post as a reliable unbiased source and telling other posters what sources you find repugnant ranks right up there with my own personal opinion about John Oliver. The Huffington Post is merely an extra liberal extension of the Democratic Party and the Hillary campaign. Having said all that, I will continue using links I find useful and continue disregarding those that are from the far left field of liberalism.

3. Since you, and your guru John Oliver, seem to believe the mental health industry has no dog in this fight, let me provide just a few links for you to read and digest:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

35 School shooters/school related violence committed by those under the influence of psychiatric drugs

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html#ixzz3nsrSFIto

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Medicated to Death: SSRIs and Mass Killings

https://www.corbettreport.com/medicated-to-death-ssris-and-mass-killings/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

SSRI Stories

http://ssristories.org/

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally there is this little snippet relating to the shooter from Oregon.

"There are a number of indications that Harper-Mercer had mental health or behavioral issues. His screen name on some social media sites was "lithium love." Lithium is used as a psychiatric medication.

Harper-Mercer graduated from The Switzer Learning Center in 2009, according to a graduation listing in The Daily Breeze newspaper. Switzer Center is a private, nonprofit school in Torrance, California, geared for special education students with a range of issues from learning disabilities, health problems and autism or Asperger's Disorder, according to the school's website.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/10/new_details_emerge_on_umpqua_c.html

No need to apologise Chuck. Being active in your winter years is very healthful I understand. So the 90 day reporting is a good reason to get out of the house. Wouldn't know about that myself. I recall doing 1 report in my time here about 19 years ago and thankfully never had to do another one.

Do you not find it boring being predictable? You post links and then expect readers to attack the source instead of the argument and I say the same thing and lo and behold, you attack the source. As I predicted.

While I find it interesting that the lunar-right (to steal a phrase from elsewhere) desperately try and become experts on mental health and psychiatric medication and supervision in a desperate attempt to justify the 'mental health' narrative diversion away from gun control issues, I think that it is noticeable that you do not address one word of John Oliver's statement. You point to his nationality. You point to his vocation. You point to his association with John Stewart, someone by the way who has actually acceded to 'Godhood' unlike the bunch of nobodies promoted by Ratzinger and his predecessors. Remind me, are their any right wing comedians who actually make anyone laugh with them instead of at them. You know, the so-called 'entertainers' like Rush Limbaugh and O'Reilly/Hannity? But to the point, irrespective of John Oliver's political, social or even sexual affiliations, is there anything that you have to say about his point?

People with mental health issues are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. You don't agree? Of course they are because they are rendered powerless by their condition and less able to deal with challenges. Not everyone can be a Texas Ranger Chuck. For the gun lobby to co-opt the serious issue of mental health care for their grubby ideological agenda is anathema. Further stigmatising an already misunderstood and unappreciated human condition.

I will admit to you that I didn't bother to read your links. Just like you didn't bother to read mine, once you say the red flag of Huffington Post or maybe you googled John Oliver and say 'The Daily Show' and you knew you would not need to go any further. Anyway, this thread has died, much like the rationale for the 2nd Amendment and I probably shouldn't have responded to your post and bumped it. This week has been quite busy so I could have just stuck to working on my projects but I just felt the need to further contribute to your 'education'.

You do know that liberalism in the economic sense is the same as free market capitalism and deregulation don't you? I find it amusing to be accused of being liberal and progressive. It is such a compliment but the right thinks it is such an insult. And then they double down by saying socialist or communist and I see people talking about cultural marxism the more to the looney right they move. So I wonder if you might define what the 'ultra left' of liberalism is? And you may want to read Adam Smith before your reply.

So I hope I have given you enough red meat to chew on while you are next playing golf with the few remaining Generals, sorry former clients of yours, who are left living and probably best to put this thread out of its misery but we can pick up the tussle in the next gun control thread that will inevitably occur and keep on recurring with tragic and appaling regularity.

Edited October 8, 2015 by lostboy