Loosing Thai Citizenship if....

[swissie]

Will a Thai-National loose his Thai Citizenship if he/she acquires a foreign citizenship. Or in other words: Does Thailand accept dual citizenship ?

Cheers.

[oncearugge]

No

Yes

[lopburi3]

Just as for USA there is no law preventing dual citizenship - but there is also no law allowing it - so in effect it is OK as does not break any law.

[elviajero]

Yes Thailand allow dual citizenship.

[paz]

Thai law does not allow acquired dual citizenship but in practice it is tolerated.

• Foreigners acquiring Thai citizenship are "supposed" to renounce their original one:
  Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:
  (1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;
  (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;
  There are no known recent cases of that happening.
• A Thai citizen will loose Thai citizenship if voluntarily acquires another citizenship by naturalization (which is different an by birth or marriage).
  Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.
  There is one knownl case of that happening, but I don't have the link here.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/THAILAND's_Nationality_Act.htm

[Pungdo]

When my daughter was born, I did all of the paperwork for her so that I could get her Aussie Citizenship, something that the Australian Government allows if one of the parents is an Australian citizen, Citizenship by Descent is the title they give it.

While organising the paperwork a Thai solicitor told me that when she turns 21 she will be required to make the decision, "Which nationality" does she want to keep.

I have since been told that it is not something that they seem to enforce.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Pungdo

[GOLDBUGGY]

Under normal circumstances the answer to your question is no. The confusion lies in understanding what Dual Citizenship is and how it applies to a country you have your citizenship from. I think the best way to illustrate this is by example.

I am Canadian and one of my daughters was born in Poland. Canada accepts Dual Citizenship while at that time Poland did not. Since my daughter was born in Poland she was and is a Polish Citizen.

So even though Poland does not grant "Dual Citizenship" when I applied for citizenship to Canada for her (her second citizenship) she was granted citizenship and now also holds both a Polish and Canadian Passports.

Me on the other hand, if I wanted to do the same as my Daughter and hold 2 Citizenship's from Canada and Poland I could not. Since Poland does not accept Dual Citizenship and I am Canadian, I would first have to renounce my Canadian Citizenship before I could be granted a Polish one. Can you see the difference?

So if your son/daughter are Thai, and you are from the UK and want to give them Dual Citizenship with the UK, then no problem. If they have UK Citizenship and you want them to have Thai Citizenship then this as different and they would have to give up their UK Citizenship first.

[ubonjoe]

When my daughter was born, I did all of the paperwork for her so that I could get her Aussie Citizenship, something that the Australian Government allows if one of the parents is an Australian citizen, Citizenship by Descent is the title they give it.

While organising the paperwork a Thai solicitor told me that when she turns 21 she will be required to make the decision, "Which nationality" does she want to keep.

I have since been told that it is not something that they seem to enforce.

The nationality act states that a person can choose their nationality at the age of 20 it does not state they have to do it. Prior to the age of 20 it was their parents choice not theirs.. Twenty is the age of maturity according to Thai law.

[Soutpeel]

Yes Thailand allow dual citizenship.

No.... Thailand tolerates dual citizenship

[IMA_FARANG]

While organising the paperwork a Thai solicitor told me that when she turns 21 she will be required to make the decision, "Which nationality" does she want to keep.

----------------------

Not exactly correct.....in fact they are allowed to choose to reject dual nationality or retain it.

I suspect that in a few occasions a dual Thai national MALE who would be required to do national military service with the Thai military might have chosen to reject his Thai nationality and assume his other nationality to avoid Thai military service.

However, the obligation to register for Thai military service applies only to MALES and not FEMALES anyhow.

Back, oh 30years ago or so, Thai wives were prohibited from buying land if they had a foreign husband.....but such a law is not been applied for at least a decade or more.

I actually knew an American whose Thai wife, at that time, had to divorce him, to purchase land back then.

After she purchased the land they were remarried.

Later that law was rescinded anyhow.

She used to joke that her American husband loved her so much that he had to marry her twice.

[elviajero]

Yes Thailand allow dual citizenship.

No.... Thailand tolerates dual citizenship

You're not going all pedant on me are you!

Tolerate.

definition:

allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one dislikes or disagrees with) without interference.

synonyms:

allow, permit, authorise, sanction, condone, indulge, agree to, accede to, approve of;

[lopburi3]

While organising the paperwork a Thai solicitor told me that when she turns 21 she will be required to make the decision, "Which nationality" does she want to keep.

----------------------

Not exactly correct.....in fact they are allowed to choose to reject dual nationality or retain it.

I suspect that in a few occasions a dual Thai national MALE who would be required to do national military service with the Thai military might have chosen to reject his Thai nationality and assume his other nationality to avoid Thai military service.

However, the obligation to register for Thai military service applies only to MALES and not FEMALES anyhow.

Back, oh 30years ago or so, Thai wives were prohibited from buying land if they had a foreign husband.....but such a law is not been applied for at least a decade or more.

I actually knew an American whose Thai wife, at that time, had to divorce him, to purchase land back then.

After she purchased the land they were remarried.

Later that law was rescinded anyhow.

She used to joke that her American husband loved her so much that he had to marry her twice.

Actually there was no law to rescind as it was never illegal - but to avoid the laws against foreign ownership, and Thai joint property issues, the easy path was to just refuse registration of such land - that has now been avoided by having foreign spouse sign paperwork that funds used for land purchase belonged to the Thai party and as such they understand that they have no ownership. In event of death of Thai owner the land must be sold.

[Lannathaijohn]

Under normal circumstances the answer to your question is no. The confusion lies in understanding what Dual Citizenship is and how it applies to a country you have your citizenship from. I think the best way to illustrate this is by example.

I am Canadian and one of my daughters was born in Poland. Canada accepts Dual Citizenship while at that time Poland did not. Since my daughter was born in Poland she was and is a Polish Citizen.

So even though Poland does not grant "Dual Citizenship" when I applied for citizenship to Canada for her (her second citizenship) she was granted citizenship and now also holds both a Polish and Canadian Passports.

Me on the other hand, if I wanted to do the same as my Daughter and hold 2 Citizenship's from Canada and Poland I could not. Since Poland does not accept Dual Citizenship and I am Canadian, I would first have to renounce my Canadian Citizenship before I could be granted a Polish one. Can you see the difference?

So if your son/daughter are Thai, and you are from the UK and want to give them Dual Citizenship with the UK, then no problem. If they have UK Citizenship and you want them to have Thai Citizenship then this as different and they would have to give up their UK Citizenship first.

[Lannathaijohn]

My son was born in Saudi Arabia and immediately became a UK citizen as he was born to a British father and a mother of Thai birth who had acquired UK citizenship due to marriage. My wife held both UK and Thai passports and also Thai ID until her death a few years ago.

Since then my son , at 29 years old, but with severe learning difficulties, was granted a Thai ID and passport on the basis of his having a Thai born mother. He did not have to relinquish his UK nationality during this process.

I was informed at both the Amphurs office and Immigration office that he had the right to hold both nationalities.

[theoldgit]

Post criticising spelling removed, not all of us are perfect.

[aboctok]

Yes Thailand allow dual citizenship.

No.... Thailand tolerates dual citizenship

You're not going all pedant on me are you!

Tolerate.

definition:

allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one dislikes or disagrees with) without interference.

synonyms:

allow, permit, authorise, sanction, condone, indulge, agree to, accede to, approve of;

Starkly different connotations.

[Aj Mick]

Thai law does not allow acquired dual citizenship but in practice it is tolerated.

• Foreigners acquiring Thai citizenship are "supposed" to renounce their original one:

  Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

  (1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;

  (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

  There are no known recent cases of that happening.

• A Thai citizen will loose Thai citizenship if voluntarily acquires another citizenship by naturalization (which is different an by birth or marriage).

  Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

  There is one knownl case of that happening, but I don't have the link here.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/THAILAND's_Nationality_Act.htm

When my daughter was born, I did all of the paperwork for her so that I could get her Aussie Citizenship, something that the Australian Government allows if one of the parents is an Australian citizen, Citizenship by Descent is the title they give it.

While organising the paperwork a Thai solicitor told me that when she turns 21 she will be required to make the decision, "Which nationality" does she want to keep.

I have since been told that it is not something that they seem to enforce.

There was a bit of a fuss about dual citizenship a few years back, when the deep South go restive. Quite a few from down that way have dual Malayisan / Thai citizenship. I have met a good few….. Jawi speaking (Thai is their second language) they are ethnically Malay, and many, if not most regard themselves as Malaysian.

It is also an issue for some Thai folk I know who have foreign born children, and a few mixed partnerships. Strictly speaking under Thai law, they are required to make a choice when they reach 20, the age of majority. Thai citizens who become naturalised citizens of another country are also supposed to renounce their Thai citizenship.

Not too many years ago anybody born in Thailand was registered as Thai, regardless of the nationality of their parents. I have met the odd one, most of whom don't even speak Thai. They have retained their dual citizenship.

Some countries are quite strict about not allowing dual citizenship, while for others it is not an issue.

In practice in Thailand, it is not something that the authorities bother about. A recent Prime Minister was British born of Thai parents and largely educated there, going to Eton then Oxford. He retained dual citizenship.

[nithisa78]

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/birth.html

[Nemesis7]

YES & NO

[jphasia]

Thai law does not allow acquired dual citizenship but in practice it is tolerated.

• Foreigners acquiring Thai citizenship are "supposed" to renounce their original one:

  Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

  (1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;

  (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

  There are no known recent cases of that happening.

• A Thai citizen will loose Thai citizenship if voluntarily acquires another citizenship by naturalization (which is different an by birth or marriage).

  Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

  There is one knownl case of that happening, but I don't have the link here.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/THAILAND's_Nationality_Act.htm

When my daughter was born, I did all of the paperwork for her so that I could get her Aussie Citizenship, something that the Australian Government allows if one of the parents is an Australian citizen, Citizenship by Descent is the title they give it.

While organising the paperwork a Thai solicitor told me that when she turns 21 she will be required to make the decision, "Which nationality" does she want to keep.

I have since been told that it is not something that they seem to enforce.

There was a bit of a fuss about dual citizenship a few years back, when the deep South go restive. Quite a few from down that way have dual Malayisan / Thai citizenship. I have met a good few….. Jawi speaking (Thai is their second language) they are ethnically Malay, and many, if not most regard themselves as Malaysian.

It is also an issue for some Thai folk I know who have foreign born children, and a few mixed partnerships. Strictly speaking under Thai law, they are required to make a choice when they reach 20, the age of majority. Thai citizens who become naturalised citizens of another country are also supposed to renounce their Thai citizenship.

Not too many years ago anybody born in Thailand was registered as Thai, regardless of the nationality of their parents. I have met the odd one, most of whom don't even speak Thai. They have retained their dual citizenship.

Some countries are quite strict about not allowing dual citizenship, while for others it is not an issue.

In practice in Thailand, it is not something that the authorities bother about. A recent Prime Minister was British born of Thai parents and largely educated there, going to Eton then Oxford. He retained dual citizenship.

Just wondering: how the authorities knows if you have dual citizenship if you don't tell them?

Example: my son was born in Thailand from Thai mother and French father. He got Thai birth certificate and French Birth Certificate as I registered him in French Embassy when he born. He got them 2 passports. He also of course got Thai ID. He is also going to Thai school and fluent in Thai. So in Thailand, he is a Thai citizenship. Unless he shows his French passport in Thailand, who could knows that he has one? He is going out of Thailand. He will be using his Thai passport. He is going to France. He will enter France with his French passport...

[lopburi3]

But in that example he will also have to show his French passport to airport check-in staff to be allowed on board flight without having a visa in Thai passport. So it would be known at exit.

[jphasia]

But in that example he will also have to show his French passport to airport check-in staff to be allowed on board flight without having a visa in Thai passport. So it would be known at exit.

Yes correct. But that will have no issue as they will just need evidence that he will be allowed to enter France. But no issues as Thai citizen having also a French passport?

[lopburi3]

As said in thread it is not an issue (except for occasional official not knowing better).

[jphasia]

As said in thread it is not an issue (except for occasional official not knowing better).

Thanks. That's also confirmed what the French embassy told me last April when I renewed his French passport. As he turned 15 now, I asked them how it will work for him. They told me, France doesn't need to know that he is also Thai and Thailand doesn't need to know that he is also French. As for the military obligations, he started this year in school the Thai military process (not sure how it is called exactly) as for the French, he received a mandatory invitation for one day information in the French Embassy in Bangkok.

[sead]

Just as for USA there is no law preventing dual citizenship - but there is also no law allowing it - so in effect it is OK as does not break any law.

Laws are not made to allow things

[paz]

Yes Thailand allow dual citizenship.

No.... Thailand tolerates dual citizenship

You're not going all pedant on me are you!

If you quote me, quote the complete context in which I wrote:

in practice it is tolerated.

Do I need the to report the difference between law and practice?

Thai law explicitly allows dual citizenship only for certain cases, and prohibit others. Try challenging that.

[elviajero]

Yes Thailand allow dual citizenship.

No.... Thailand tolerates dual citizenship

You're not going all pedant on me are you!

If you quote me, quote the complete context in which I wrote:

in practice it is tolerated.

Do I need the to report the difference between law and practice?

Thai law explicitly allows dual citizenship only for certain cases, and prohibit others. Try challenging that.

What!!!

I didn't quote you. I was replying to Soutpeel who wanted to replace my use of "allow" with "tolerates".

p.s. I don't have a problem with the word tolerates in the context of Thailand's stand on dual citizenship.

Edited October 8, 2015 by elviajero

[Ohng]

Thai law does not allow acquired dual citizenship but in practice it is tolerated.

• Foreigners acquiring Thai citizenship are "supposed" to renounce their original one:

  Section 19. The Minister is empowered to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalisation if it appears that:

  (1) The naturalisation was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material particular;

  (2) There is evidence to show that he still makes use of his former nationality;

  There are no known recent cases of that happening.

• A Thai citizen will loose Thai citizenship if voluntarily acquires another citizenship by naturalization (which is different an by birth or marriage).

  Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

  There is one knownl case of that happening, but I don't have the link here.

http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/THAILAND's_Nationality_Act.htm

FYI: Until now, there are only 25 revoked Thai Citizenship cases that officially announced on Ratchakitcha.

http://www.mratchakitcha.soc.go.th/search_result.php?order=PUBLISHEDDATE&sort=ASC&title=%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%8D%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4&book=&special=&type=0&section=&start_date=&end_date=&group=

Most of them from the Section 17 [1,2]

Section 17. With respect to a person who has Thai nationality, by reason of his having been born within the Thai Kingdom of an alien father, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

(1) He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;

(2) There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father or in a foreign nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

The Minister in the event of (1) or (2), and the Court in the event of (3) or (4) and upon request of the public prosecutor, shall order the revocation of Thai nationality.

Here are the example cases :

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2551/D/091/30.PDF

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2548/00156855.PDF

[p_brownstone]

Just as for USA there is no law preventing dual citizenship - but there is also no law allowing it - so in effect it is OK as does not break any law.

Exactly.

There is an accepted legal maxim

"Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali"

Which loosely translates as "If there is no existing Law there cannot be a crime or punishment"

In other words if there is no Law specifically prohibiting something then it cannot be illegal.

Patrick

[Jaggg88]

Under normal circumstances the answer to your question is no. The confusion lies in understanding what Dual Citizenship is and how it applies to a country you have your citizenship from. I think the best way to illustrate this is by example.

I am Canadian and one of my daughters was born in Poland. Canada accepts Dual Citizenship while at that time Poland did not. Since my daughter was born in Poland she was and is a Polish Citizen.

So even though Poland does not grant "Dual Citizenship" when I applied for citizenship to Canada for her (her second citizenship) she was granted citizenship and now also holds both a Polish and Canadian Passports.

Me on the other hand, if I wanted to do the same as my Daughter and hold 2 Citizenship's from Canada and Poland I could not. Since Poland does not accept Dual Citizenship and I am Canadian, I would first have to renounce my Canadian Citizenship before I could be granted a Polish one. Can you see the difference?

So if your son/daughter are Thai, and you are from the UK and want to give them Dual Citizenship with the UK, then no problem. If they have UK Citizenship and you want them to have Thai Citizenship then this as different and they would have to give up their UK Citizenship first.

No this isn't true. My son was born in the UK where his birth was registered (I'm a UK citizen and my wife is Thai) and then we went to the Thai Embassy in London and registered his birth and obtained a Thai passport. He did not have to renounce his UK citizenship. So he has dual citizenship and so does my wife who was born in Thailand.