Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2

[stephenterry]

Thank you for your vote, Cyberfarang.

Incidentally, the Japanese are not happy campers, either, right now. They are no longer having special private session with Immigration and are being pushed into using visa agents also. They'd like to go back to an arrangement where their own club members help each other out with the paperwork and they're being told if they want to do that they have to deal with the morning queue like the rest of us.

Which is despicable. Expletives in abundance about what I think about our service. Can someone tell me why we're treated differently to any other offices?

This, of course, is the billion baht question that no one can seem to answer. And it's been asked by some people in very high places.

Maybe the answer is "because they can"

Just look at how the number of retirees coming to Chiang Mai continues to grow.

On the assumption that retirees can support themselves adequately, it is not so far fetched for immigration to provide a paid service for those willing to expedite their visas. What is not acceptable is to restrict others who don't mind waiting all day. Maybe our line of attack is to highlight the inconvenience of retiring here. Whatever I would have little complaint if I knew I could get my renewal visa processed on the day I visited at opening time.

[Trujillo]

Maybe our line of attack is to highlight the inconvenience of retiring here.

They don't care.

[NancyL]

Yes, there are reasons for the regulations and I'm not advocating changing them. What I'm campaigning for is equal treatment for Chiang Mai expats.

[NancyL]

Just received a report from someone who tried to do this retirement extension this morning. 15 people were turned away in the queue. He says they distributed 30 queue tickets, but he had to go on what the Imm. officer told him, rather than count how many were actually handed out because he was too far back in the pack of people who didn't receive tickets to be able to properly see or count if it was 25 or 30 tickets.

He rode back home in a songthaew with others who were turned away. One claimed to have arrived at 5:30 am, and was No. 32 in the queue.

My friend doesn't know what he's going to do. It's more than a week before his extension expires and he hates the idea of paying G4T 3000 baht to do it for him. Yet, it's not good, either, to pay 500 baht for round trip transportation only to be turned away.

[northernjohn]

Just received a report from someone who tried to do this retirement extension this morning. 15 people were turned away in the queue. He says they distributed 30 queue tickets, but he had to go on what the Imm. officer told him, rather than count how many were actually handed out because he was too far back in the pack of people who didn't receive tickets to be able to properly see or count if it was 25 or 30 tickets.

He rode back home in a songthaew with others who were turned away. One claimed to have arrived at 5:30 am, and was No. 32 in the queue.

My friend doesn't know what he's going to do. It's more than a week before his extension expires and he hates the idea of paying G4T 3000 baht to do it for him. Yet, it's not good, either, to pay 500 baht for round trip transportation only to be turned away.

For 5,500 baht they can do it at Thai assist. They have a web page and a phone number. Or there is another one who will do it for 5,000 baht.

Edit

Did he tell you how many that were turned away was because they did not have the paper work needed?

[hml367]

Don't give up on Immigration this is only happening in Chiang Mai. The other provinces are not complaining. There was a thread on the General Forum talking about the immigration and closing times of the bars. Other provinces reported bar closing times being aligned with the law. How ever none of them complained about their immigration.

The Japanese were working together and spending money out of their own pocket to expedite their extensions not complaining on Facebook. Nancy set up a similar situation and it got canceled because of the bombing in Bangkok. In Pattaya apparently they have volunteer's checking the paper work before you see an officer. I would imagine that they have done it correctly for a long enough period that the immigration staff trust's their judgment. Here in Chiang Mai they have the girls out front and the staff for good reasons does not trust their judgment.

Also We defiantly have a larger population of retired people than others. The problem is closer to home than Bangkok. Make what you will of that.

I believe the Japanese paid 200 baht for the officers on their own time to come in. Not completely sure how that would work as they would still need the one officer to sign them.

Northernjohn,

Let me start by saying I am not questioning whether you are right or wrong in any of this.

What I wonder is where you got the information about no complaints in other Immigration offices (other than Chiang Mai).

Another question is, rather than me going to search through the myriad of threads and posts, how much the Japanese and/or CMExpats paid... Was the 200 baht you cite per person?

I am asking to get a better understanding of why the Immigration office in Chiang Mai is different than the others. I have my own opinion.

Thanks.

[NancyL]

NorthernJohn is talking about the now defunct program where the Japanese CLL club had Imm. officials come to their meeting once a month to process their Imm. matters for 200 baht a case. That stopped when Imm moved to Prom. and a private Saturday session was tried in Sept. and the CEC was allowed to join in. Also at 200 baht per case.

That will definitely not continue. CLL (the the Japanese Consulate) has lobbied very hard for it to continue and been told, no, they must use visa agents or get in the morning queue. No more special treatment for them.

[northernjohn]

Don't give up on Immigration this is only happening in Chiang Mai. The other provinces are not complaining. There was a thread on the General Forum talking about the immigration and closing times of the bars. Other provinces reported bar closing times being aligned with the law. How ever none of them complained about their immigration.

The Japanese were working together and spending money out of their own pocket to expedite their extensions not complaining on Facebook. Nancy set up a similar situation and it got canceled because of the bombing in Bangkok. In Pattaya apparently they have volunteer's checking the paper work before you see an officer. I would imagine that they have done it correctly for a long enough period that the immigration staff trust's their judgment. Here in Chiang Mai they have the girls out front and the staff for good reasons does not trust their judgment.

Also We defiantly have a larger population of retired people than others. The problem is closer to home than Bangkok. Make what you will of that.

I believe the Japanese paid 200 baht for the officers on their own time to come in. Not completely sure how that would work as they would still need the one officer to sign them.

Northernjohn,

Let me start by saying I am not questioning whether you are right or wrong in any of this.

What I wonder is where you got the information about no complaints in other Immigration offices (other than Chiang Mai).

Another question is, rather than me going to search through the myriad of threads and posts, how much the Japanese and/or CMExpats paid... Was the 200 baht you cite per person?

I am asking to get a better understanding of why the Immigration office in Chiang Mai is different than the others. I have my own opinion.

Thanks.

There was a thread in the General forum about the complaints at immigration in other provinces other than Chiang Mai.

No complaints from any of them.

Personal OPINION not fact. I feel the problem is not in Bangkok.

The 200 baht I could be wrong I am not going to go back through all the posts but I believe Nancy mentioned it when she set up a similar service for those not in the Japanese group. It was a great deal from what I heard but the bombing in Bangkok seemed to for some strange reason stop it.

Nancy has the details on that.

[Trujillo]

No more special treatment for them (Japanese).

As it should be.

[hml367]

There was a thread in the General forum about the complaints at immigration in other provinces other than Chiang Mai.

No complaints from any of them.

Personal OPINION not fact. I feel the problem is not in Bangkok.

The 200 baht I could be wrong I am not going to go back through all the posts but I believe Nancy mentioned it when she set up a similar service for those not in the Japanese group. It was a great deal from what I heard but the bombing in Bangkok seemed to for some strange reason stop it.

Nancy has the details on that.

Thank you for the reply.

My thoughts were that other Immigration offices had negligible complaints compared to the Chiang Mai office.

If the Japanese club or Chiang Mai expats were paying extra (any amount) then that would seem the same in principle as what many are complaining about.

Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration.

As many have said/posted/alluded to before, Western "fixes" and perceived service obligations may not necessarily apply in Asia... not just Chiang Mai or Thailand.

[Trujillo]

If the Japanese club or Chiang Mai expats were paying extra (any amount) then that would seem the same in principle as what many are complaining about.

Japanese were paying 200 baht extra. To get an agent (one of the issues here) can cost upward of 5,000 baht extra, depending on the service. Do you see the difference?

Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration.

Oh, do tell. I'm all ears. Solar flares, perhaps? Electromagnetic waves from high-power lines? Contrails?

[NancyL]

The way the CLL program worked is that their members helped each other to fill out their forms, get their documents in order, etc, and submitted them to the Imm. officers prior to coming to their monthly meetings. It's not like the Japanese queued up in front of the officers during the meeting, the way people do each morning at Prom.

Several of the CLL members are real visa gurus and they enjoyed helping their fellow members prepare their forms and get their documents in order prior to Imm. coming to their monthly meetings. Remember, many of the Japanese people can't write English so they need help in filing out the forms. The passports and documents were given to Imm. several days in advance, so the process at the CLL meetings went quite quickly.

Now they're being told that if they want to continue to help each other, then their members have to join the early morning queue. Or hire a "qualified" visa agent rather than having their friends do this "work" for them. They're under scrutiny, too.

[NancyL]

Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration.

hml367 -- you've mysteriously alluded to having your own opinion about why you think the CM Imm. office is different than other provinces. Why, pray tell?

[hml367]

Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration.

hml367 -- you've mysteriously alluded to having your own opinion about why you think the CM Imm. office is different than other provinces. Why, pray tell?

Maybe my opinion is a mystery.... alluding to having my own opinion is no mystery.. I have my own opinion and I said so in a previous post. I am sure you have read my posts in other theads.

I never had a problem with Immigration until people started telling Immigration in Chiang Mai what they were doing wrong and how they should be doing it. As I also posted in the other threads, this started before you moved to Chiang Mai, so it is not that I am blaming you, as many people that have not been here when things were different seem to think. I don't know of many countries, people and governments, that like being told they are wrong and this is how it should be done.

Sparkles letter to the editor also is not the first. Again, these started before you were living here.

That along with some people touting Chiang Mai as THE place to retire, which brought many foreigners which were not well suited to complying with foreign rules and regulations to Chiang Mai and only exacerbated things. An old saying with a small edit comes to mind, "Getting old is not for sissies." I would change that to, "Getting old AND LIVING IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY is not for sissies."

You spoke of drama in another thread.... your question about my opinion seems rather dramatic to me.

You help many people for sure, NancyL. That is not my point nor is it my opinion that you do not.

[true blue]

Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration.

hml367 -- you've mysteriously alluded to having your own opinion about why you think the CM Imm. office is different than other provinces. Why, pray tell?

propaly alluding,to continuall interference by out side forces,or farangs questioning there authority,at every opportunity,thais don't like being confronted,and there washing being aired on a open forum,could be wrong and there,may be other answers,ie overcrowding to many people to ever cope with,or just simply mai pen rai,whatever, hope it gets solved soon,but I think natural progression will solve it in time,people will not bother retiring here.and cnx will lose its gloss

[NancyL]

The Pattaya office processes nearly four times as many retirement extensions annually as Chiang Mai yet we consistently hear good reports about how smoothly that office operates. I find it hard to believe that the retirees in Pattaya are more clued in and better adjusted than the ones in Chiang Mai.

I've been here nearly eight years and the Chiang Mai office has consistently been crowded, although the need to queue in the early morning for retirement extensions seemed to have started about 4 or 5 year ago. I certainly wasn't complaining publicly at that time. In fact, I couldn't really speak from personal experience because I was always successful in getting an on-line appointment for me and Hubby. But the on-line queue disappeared with the move to Prom. for reasons that really didn't make sense.

So, I don't think the fact that "people are telling CM Imm. what they are doing wrong" is the cause of the problems.

[hml367]

NancyL,

You are twisting the intent (and the words) of my actual post... What I said is. "Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration." in post 942. I don't recall saying it is "the cause of the problems". If I did, that was not my intention.

From some of the posts I have read, what some people are telling Immigration will only cause problems. This is not a Western society. Just take the debacle of what some people thought of the U.S. Ambassador's words.

Often times our real attitudes show through even when not saying anything or saying something we think will please the other side, while we are thinking something else.

NancyL, you once posted that you had to "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok... IN MY OPINION that would be a bad thing to do. Whether you actually did "brow beat" the officer or not, just relating the story in that fashion shows, IN MY OPINION, the wrong attitude.

[Konini]

My friend doesn't know what he's going to do. It's more than a week before his extension expires and he hates the idea of paying G4T 3000 baht to do it for him. Yet, it's not good, either, to pay 500 baht for round trip transportation only to be turned away.

Getting there earlier is, unfortunately, the only thing he can do if he is to avoid using an agent.

Mr K went to do his recently, the details regarding numbers waiting/processed that day have already been posted so I won't repeat them, I hope they bring back an online reservation before next year.

He slept through most of his waiting time and but they were very understaffed and that when he went back to pick it up the office was very, very busy full of what appeared to be a lot of tourists extending visas in the middle of the day.

[cmsally]

NancyL,

You are twisting the intent (and the words) of my actual post... What I said is. "Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration." in post 942. I don't recall saying it is "the cause of the problems". If I did, that was not my intention.

From some of the posts I have read, what some people are telling Immigration will only cause problems. This is not a Western society. Just take the debacle of what some people thought of the U.S. Ambassador's words.

Often times our real attitudes show through even when not saying anything or saying something we think will please the other side, while we are thinking something else.

NancyL, you once posted that you had to "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok... IN MY OPINION that would be a bad thing to do. Whether you actually did "brow beat" the officer or not, just relating the story in that fashion shows, IN MY OPINION, the wrong attitude.

What I don't understand is we have been hearing all this hype about ASEAN so you would really think all this kind of stuff would get sorted out. Maybe it was just that - pure hype.

[NancyL]

NancyL,

You are twisting the intent (and the words) of my actual post... What I said is. "Some of the blame for what happens in Chiang Mai can surely rest in places other than just Immigration." in post 942. I don't recall saying it is "the cause of the problems". If I did, that was not my intention.

From some of the posts I have read, what some people are telling Immigration will only cause problems. This is not a Western society. Just take the debacle of what some people thought of the U.S. Ambassador's words.

Often times our real attitudes show through even when not saying anything or saying something we think will please the other side, while we are thinking something else.

NancyL, you once posted that you had to "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok... IN MY OPINION that would be a bad thing to do. Whether you actually did "brow beat" the officer or not, just relating the story in that fashion shows, IN MY OPINION, the wrong attitude.

I don't ever recall writing that I "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok. I believe you are trying to stir up trouble.

[hml367]

I don't ever recall writing that I "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok. I believe you are trying to stir up trouble.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/798038-getting-retirement-visa-re-newed/ post # 11

It took me all of 1 minute to search and find that. I remember it being said because of the reasons I have already stated.

NancyL, this post is an accusation from you... I hope the moderators do not hold it against me.

I was not trying to stir trouble.... I was merely trying to give an example of how an attitude can injure relations.

[NancyL]

I don't ever recall writing that I "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok. I believe you are trying to stir up trouble.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/798038-getting-retirement-visa-re-newed/ post # 11

It took me all of 1 minute to search and find that. I remember it being said because of the reasons I have already stated.

NancyL, this post is an accusation from you... I hope the moderators do not hold it against me.

I was not trying to stir trouble.... I was merely trying to give an example of how an attitude can injure relations.

Oh, that incident. The Imm. officer stamped in Hubby for 30 days, instead of the 7 days or whatever remained on his retirement extension. Hubby was at a different podium from me and when he went back alone and brought it to her attention, she didn't want to change it. I had to come over and got involved in the discussion because I know more Thai language. In retrospect, I don't think he put his re-entry permit number on his arrival card, but she should have changed the stamp, the first time that Hubby politely pointed out his extension and re-entry permit.

I wasn't speaking impolitely to the Imm. officer, either, but I did know that if we didn't get this problem corrected at the Swampy entry point it was going to be a big chore for Hubby to start from ground zero to get a new retirement extension from a 30 day visa exempt entry. Swampy was the place to get it fixed -- not keep moving and leave her alone like she was acting like we should do.

[fcgprg]

I dont think hml 367 was trying to cause any trouble .He was quoting what it transpires that you did say. I think an apology would be in order to the said person.

[Trujillo]

You can check this, but an American friend of mine who has lived in Thailand for almost 30 years now (perfectly fluent in spoken and written Thai) says that insulting or confronting an immigration officer can result in a two-year jail term.

Recently, we were both re-entering Thailand at the Chiang Mai airport immigration hall and the woman officer told my friend to take his passport out of the plastic holder (the kiosk next to him was where I was going through, with the exact same plastic holder which I was not told to remove). My friend was inconvenienced and said, "I've never had to do that before," and then the woman, in Thai which she assumed he -- being a dumbass foreigner -- could not understand, began mocking him and all the immigration officers laughed, one saying: "Don't let him in!"

After he told me that the confronting an immigration officer proscription is real and that you have to just stand there and take whatever crap they sling at you.

I'd be very cautious about brow-beating an immigration official.

And by the way NancyL, you just been owned!

[MESmith]

You can check this, but an American friend of mine who has lived in Thailand for almost 30 years now (perfectly fluent in spoken and written Thai) says that insulting or confronting an immigration officer can result in a two-year jail term.

Recently, we were both re-entering Thailand at the Chiang Mai airport immigration hall and the woman officer told my friend to take his passport out of the plastic holder (the kiosk next to him was where I was going through, with the exact same plastic holder which I was not told to remove). My friend was inconvenienced and said, "I've never had to do that before," and then the woman, in Thai which she assumed he -- being a dumbass foreigner -- could not understand, began mocking him and all the immigration officers laughed, one saying: "Don't let him in!"

After he told me that the confronting an immigration officer proscription is real and that you have to just stand there and take whatever crap they sling at you.

I'd be very cautious about brow-beating an immigration official.

And by the way NancyL, you just been owned!

That's the same the world over. Let's not mention the C word again.....

[Trujillo]

What is the "C" word? Konfronting?

[TheAppletons]

I dont think hml 367 was trying to cause any trouble .He was quoting what it transpires that you did say. I think an apology would be in order to the said person.

Yeah, someone should apologize to the resident passive-aggressive thread stalker. Thanks, that was funny!

[daoyai]

I don't ever recall writing that I "brow beat" an Immigration officer at the airport in Bangkok. I believe you are trying to stir up trouble.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/798038-getting-retirement-visa-re-newed/ post # 11

It took me all of 1 minute to search and find that. I remember it being said because of the reasons I have already stated.

NancyL, this post is an accusation from you... I hope the moderators do not hold it against me.

I was not trying to stir trouble.... I was merely trying to give an example of how an attitude can injure relations.

Oh, that incident. The Imm. officer stamped in Hubby for 30 days, instead of the 7 days or whatever remained on his retirement extension. Hubby was at a different podium from me and when he went back alone and brought it to her attention, she didn't want to change it. I had to come over and got involved in the discussion because I know more Thai language. In retrospect, I don't think he put his re-entry permit number on his arrival card, but she should have changed the stamp, the first time that Hubby politely pointed out his extension and re-entry permit.

I wasn't speaking impolitely to the Imm. officer, either, but I did know that if we didn't get this problem corrected at the Swampy entry point it was going to be a big chore for Hubby to start from ground zero to get a new retirement extension from a 30 day visa exempt entry. Swampy was the place to get it fixed -- not keep moving and leave her alone like she was acting like we should do.

Entry stamp mistakes MUST be corrected at the at the entry point where they were made, I had the same, on a 1 year multi entry visa , got stamped thirty days at a border crossing from Laos, didn't see it until return to CM went to Imm. to get it fixed and was told I needed to return to THAT border crossing to get it fixed... luckily my friend knew someone so I was able to get it ifxed at the CM airport for a bottle of JW So Nancy did the right thing... ! sometimes not often but sometimes, you need to go full farang and stand your ground..... but smile.

[NancyL]

Yes, maybe "be firm but polite" would have been a better choice of words than "brow beat" when I wrote the original post in question.

[MESmith]

What is the "C" word? Konfronting?

The "C" word is not allowed on TV, but I get away with it on FB