Ms Yingluck asks PM for fairness in the civil litigation against her over the rice scheme

[animatic]

Yes, and what of the 13 rice farms who hung themselves

after repeatedly begging to be paid for a year old crop her pledging scheme took from them,

while the loans to buy the rice seed were still 100% coming due and the strong arm boys are

on the way back to collect via broken bones or worse:

Yeah, no doubt those lost souls support her getting FAIRNESS, while looking up from hell.

When you run a Ponzi Scheme, whether in office or on the street,

don't expect leniency when it INEVITABLY collapses.

Edited October 12, 2015 by animatic

[bangrak]

This is simply a major witch hunt and primarily programmed to hunt the Shins at all costs................even Malaysia hasn't dug to these depths .....yet..!

Wait for the Malaysian tip-of-the-iceberg Najib to melt down, who succeeded in bringing all the nine Sultans together out of their proverbial reserve! And I'd hope the same could (have) happen(ed) in Thailand about Thaksin, and other mega-parasites...

[bangrak]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

I can see your point, since when has a PM ever been liable for failed policy.

But the world has never seen such an incompetent and inexperienced PM like this one. A woman who became PM of a country with zero political experience whatsoever, in fact. A PM who was merely a pretty puppet whose strings were pulled by an on-the-run convicted criminal, illegally running a government from a haven overseas.

A PM who spent lots of time racking up a record number of overseas trips under such guises as "trade missions" but were in fact shopping trips, and very little time attending to her actual duties.

She will never be charged with anything that includes the term "responsibility".

Well of course the old shopping trip myth gets trotted out from time to time but no one ever provides any examples, links, evidence, photos....

She made fewer trips than the present PM, although she was able to leave the hotel room to eat.

Quite right Prbkk..........thia is simply a witch-hunt.against the Shins. and wont' fool the international media, or the locals, one iota!!

How odd, the same denialists as the ones in denial of the red (and black) terrorists' crimes! What could be the link? Yes, indeed: the Shins! The only valid excuse for them being, IMO, they are well paid for it, otherwise: just brainwashed lemmings.

[bangrak]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

Yes, you're correct. All real democratic governments have constitutions which immunize their president or PM from civil lawsuits for their failed policies. You can read Jones v. Clinton for an explanation of where immunity begins and ends for a president in a modern democracy. Thailand, however, doesn't fall into the category of "real democratic governments." No party has ever advocated for inserting an immunity clause into the Thai constitutions (and all its versions). Therefore, Yingluck is now suffering as the result of the lack of foresight of her brother, herself, of the PTP, of the PAD, and all their predecessors.

Prayuth has two options in attempting to recover for the financial loss resulting from the failure to properly administer and monitor the rice pledge scheme, proceed in civil court or seek an administrative order. The difference is that in civil court, the current government becomes the plaintiff, and in the administrative court, Yingluck has the burden of contesting the order in court as the plaintiff.

Note that Yingluck's liability is not premised on initiating the scheme, but failing to address irregularities and massive losses which were not part of the scheme as it was legislated by parliament. As such, the scheme became undemocratic and unconstitutional, because it was not being administered in the way that the law required it to be.

It's obvious she can keep all these legal wars going for years. Her lawyers can file lawsuits, objections, appeals, etc. She will have plenty of time to run off to Dubai when it gets close to actually having to serve any time in jail. For now, it's a battle of damages (money verdicts), and I'm sure she has off-shored most of her ill-gotten gains by now, as have her cohorts in this fraudulent scheme.

IMO correct, when you'd add PPP, TRT, to PTP, ...and DP, but not PAD.

[SoFarAndNear]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

I can see your point, since when has a PM ever been liable for failed policy.

But the world has never seen such an incompetent and inexperienced PM like this one. A woman who became PM of a country with zero political experience whatsoever, in fact. A PM who was merely a pretty puppet whose strings were pulled by an on-the-run convicted criminal, illegally running a government from a haven overseas.

A PM who spent lots of time racking up a record number of overseas trips under such guises as "trade missions" but were in fact shopping trips, and very little time attending to her actual duties.

She will never be charged with anything that includes the term "responsibility".

Well of course the old shopping trip myth gets trotted out from time to time but no one ever provides any examples, links, evidence, photos....

She made fewer trips than the present PM, although she was able to leave the hotel room to eat.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/660379-pm-yingluck-shinawatra-takes-after-her-brother-orders-a-plane/

She made 30 trips overseas in two years, are you really saying Prayuth has made more? Check out the link, after all you asked for it.

First to say, I am impartial in this case. But can someone show where the evidence is that YL spend so much time shopping overseas? I really think the whole YL and shopping thing is really stereotype thinking because she is a woman.

Regards to the overseas trips. The current unelected Yunta military general PM is not as welcomed as a democratic elected PM right?

[AGareth2]

very sad

you don't understand constitutional law

yet you come from the west

what is wrong with you guys?

[trainman34014]

Perhaps the General should ask Yingluck for a little fairness and bring back the millions in tax payers money she bunged into her Brothers bank account while she was in charge of the country's funds. Fair deal i would say !

[2fishin2]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

I can see your point, since when has a PM ever been liable for failed policy.

But the world has never seen such an incompetent and inexperienced PM like this one. A woman who became PM of a country with zero political experience whatsoever, in fact. A PM who was merely a pretty puppet whose strings were pulled by an on-the-run convicted criminal, illegally running a government from a haven overseas.

A PM who spent lots of time racking up a record number of overseas trips under such guises as "trade missions" but were in fact shopping trips, and very little time attending to her actual duties.

She will never be charged with anything that includes the term "responsibility".

Well of course the old shopping trip myth gets trotted out from time to time but no one ever provides any examples, links, evidence, photos....

She made fewer trips than the present PM, although she was able to leave the hotel room to eat.

Quite right Prbkk..........thia is simply a witch-hunt.against the Shins. and wont' fool the international media, or the locals, one iota!!

Agree but isn't it amazing it fools a bunch of TV members?

Well, maybe it isnt amazing....555

[Baerboxer]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

I can see your point, since when has a PM ever been liable for failed policy.

But the world has never seen such an incompetent and inexperienced PM like this one. A woman who became PM of a country with zero political experience whatsoever, in fact. A PM who was merely a pretty puppet whose strings were pulled by an on-the-run convicted criminal, illegally running a government from a haven overseas.

A PM who spent lots of time racking up a record number of overseas trips under such guises as "trade missions" but were in fact shopping trips, and very little time attending to her actual duties.

She will never be charged with anything that includes the term "responsibility".

Well of course the old shopping trip myth gets trotted out from time to time but no one ever provides any examples, links, evidence, photos....

She made fewer trips than the present PM, although she was able to leave the hotel room to eat.

Would you like to provide the links. evidence, proof that show the current PM has made more trips than Yingluck please?

Or apologies to everyone for telling a whopper!

Which to be fair is not like you. Getting a bit frothy are we?

[Baerboxer]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/660379-pm-yingluck-shinawatra-takes-after-her-brother-orders-a-plane/

She made 30 trips overseas in two years, are you really saying Prayuth has made more? Check out the link, after all you asked for it.

First to say, I am impartial in this case. But can someone show where the evidence is that YL spend so much time shopping overseas? I really think the whole YL and shopping thing is really stereotype thinking because she is a woman.

Regards to the overseas trips. The current unelected Yunta military general PM is not as welcomed as a democratic elected PM right?

I have no idea what she actually did on those trips, and neither does any other poster I would think.

The "joke" she was off shopping is a little worn to say the least, and those who support the Shins here like to get all PC and say it because she's a woman. It isn't, it's more a comment that she's a very fashionable wearer of expensive designer clothes and jewelry with a large designer handbag collection apparently. Maybe she shops on-line - who knows or cares?

The reality was Thaksin wanted her out of the country, away from parliament and so create the " I wasn't there, I didn't know, no one told me, etc etc" escape route for her. That ploy doesn't seem to be working because she did make comments and did lie and looks to be deep in the poo poo now.

[Baerboxer]

Perhaps the General should ask Yingluck for a little fairness and bring back the millions in tax payers money she bunged into her Brothers bank account while she was in charge of the country's funds. Fair deal i would say !

The Shin family fortune increased by a staggering 450% during the PTP years in power. That is according to Forbes who got it from an interview from Thaksin.

Shame they couldn't work their financial magic for the poor farmers, or Thailand in general.

[Baerboxer]

Yes, and what of the 13 rice farms who hung themselves

after repeatedly begging to be paid for a year old crop her pledging scheme took from them,

while the loans to buy the rice seed were still 100% coming due and the strong arm boys are

on the way back to collect via broken bones or worse:

Yeah, no doubt those lost souls support her getting FAIRNESS, while looking up from hell.

When you run a Ponzi Scheme, whether in office or on the street,

don't expect leniency when it INEVITABLY collapses.

I am shocked! I remember Ms. Yingluck vowed to the protesting farmers that they would be paid within 1 week and that they should go home.

You mean she didn't fulfill her vow, and lied and they didn't get paid.

Shocked. And now she wants to be treated fair.

Perhaps someone should vow not to seize her assets and not to jail her - and lie.

[2fishin2]

Yes, and what of the 13 rice farms who hung themselves

after repeatedly begging to be paid for a year old crop her pledging scheme took from them,

while the loans to buy the rice seed were still 100% coming due and the strong arm boys are

on the way back to collect via broken bones or worse:

Yeah, no doubt those lost souls support her getting FAIRNESS, while looking up from hell.

When you run a Ponzi Scheme, whether in office or on the street,

don't expect leniency when it INEVITABLY collapses.

I am shocked! I remember Ms. Yingluck vowed to the protesting farmers that they would be paid within 1 week and that they should go home.

You mean she didn't fulfill her vow, and lied and they didn't get paid.

Shocked. And now she wants to be treated fair.

Perhaps someone should vow not to seize her assets and not to jail her - and lie.

I would be interested in reading your supporting articles and material about what you said she said. Could I get you to post them? Thanks.

[z42]

I take it that fairness will be some packey lower down the chain will take the rap. The fact she is squirming is a good sign however. Certainly makes a change

So you dont think she should be treated fairly. Got it.

I think she should be treated fairly, which if previous cases of direct involvement or contribution to state losses is anything to go by then i'm thinking 10 years minimum in the general population is very fair indeed.

What do you think should happen considering she was either too out of her depth to run a tight ship, or was happy to let all those around her let the flagship subsidy scheme rack up 500 billion plus baht in operating costs and losses? Dying to know

[Gunna]

Yes, and what of the 13 rice farms who hung themselves

after repeatedly begging to be paid for a year old crop her pledging scheme took from them,

while the loans to buy the rice seed were still 100% coming due and the strong arm boys are

on the way back to collect via broken bones or worse:

Yeah, no doubt those lost souls support her getting FAIRNESS, while looking up from hell.

When you run a Ponzi Scheme, whether in office or on the street,

don't expect leniency when it INEVITABLY collapses.

I am shocked! I remember Ms. Yingluck vowed to the protesting farmers that they would be paid within 1 week and that they should go home.

You mean she didn't fulfill her vow, and lied and they didn't get paid.

Shocked. And now she wants to be treated fair.

Perhaps someone should vow not to seize her assets and not to jail her - and lie.

I would be interested in reading your supporting articles and material about what you said she said. Could I get you to post them? Thanks.

11 February 2014

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra reassured farmers that they would be paid as her government’s financial status is sound enough to seek loans from financial institutions to pay farmers.

She dismissed speculation that her government was broke and was unable to pay farmers.

Instead, she said, the fiscal position of her caretaker government was sound enough to secure loans from financial institutions with pledge that all farmers who have their rice vouchers would be certainly paid.

She lied to the farmers while knowing a caretaker Government cannot borrow money, or either she was too stupid to know it was against the law as Shins have always thought that they are above the law. eg illegal land deals, bribing judges, buying votes, not returning to face trial, illegal share trading, the list is endless.

[GeckosDiving]

I am not an advocate of this pathway being created, it sets a precedent , Ms Yingluck was a Prime Minister in a Government elected by the people , the executive passed the motion to introduce the rice pledging scheme, it was an act of Parliament, not an individual decision , I liken this to taking LBJ estate to court for the costs of the Vietnam war, if persons cannot make decisions when in the senior executive position in the land , why make any at all, if this is the end result , making a decision to buy submarines by the Junta and they are a failure , can the court's charge Prayut - O - Cha, If the high speed train network is a failure and incurring massive costs, can we take the junta to court, blatant victimisation at its worse. I rest my case.

[GeckosDiving]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

I can see your point, since when has a PM ever been liable for failed policy.

But the world has never seen such an incompetent and inexperienced PM like this one. A woman who became PM of a country with zero political experience whatsoever, in fact. A PM who was merely a pretty puppet whose strings were pulled by an on-the-run convicted criminal, illegally running a government from a haven overseas.

A PM who spent lots of time racking up a record number of overseas trips under such guises as "trade missions" but were in fact shopping trips, and very little time attending to her actual duties.

She will never be charged with anything that includes the term "responsibility".

Well of course the old shopping trip myth gets trotted out from time to time but no one ever provides any examples, links, evidence, photos....

She made fewer trips than the present PM, although she was able to leave the hotel room to eat.

Quite right Prbkk..........thia is simply a witch-hunt.against the Shins. and wont' fool the international media, or the locals, one iota!!

[2fishin2]

Yes, and what of the 13 rice farms who hung themselves

after repeatedly begging to be paid for a year old crop her pledging scheme took from them,

while the loans to buy the rice seed were still 100% coming due and the strong arm boys are

on the way back to collect via broken bones or worse:

Yeah, no doubt those lost souls support her getting FAIRNESS, while looking up from hell.

When you run a Ponzi Scheme, whether in office or on the street,

don't expect leniency when it INEVITABLY collapses.

I am shocked! I remember Ms. Yingluck vowed to the protesting farmers that they would be paid within 1 week and that they should go home.

You mean she didn't fulfill her vow, and lied and they didn't get paid.

Shocked. And now she wants to be treated fair.

Perhaps someone should vow not to seize her assets and not to jail her - and lie.

I would be interested in reading your supporting articles and material about what you said she said. Could I get you to post them? Thanks.

11 February 2014

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra reassured farmers that they would be paid as her government’s financial status is sound enough to seek loans from financial institutions to pay farmers.

She dismissed speculation that her government was broke and was unable to pay farmers.

Instead, she said, the fiscal position of her caretaker government was sound enough to secure loans from financial institutions with pledge that all farmers who have their rice vouchers would be certainly paid.

She lied to the farmers while knowing a caretaker Government cannot borrow money, or either she was too stupid to know it was against the law as Shins have always thought that they are above the law. eg illegal land deals, bribing judges, buying votes, not returning to face trial, illegal share trading, the list is endless.

Sorry but I would like the source and the full article, not a cut an paste. It helps to put it into context.

I did read what you posed but dont see she promised to pay them back in a week nor any mention of her telling them they should go home. Maybe its in another article.

[elgordo38]

"Ms Yingluck said she expected General Prayut to instruct the panel exploring civil lawsuit against her to be fair with her, not to rush the case and to her to present evidences to defend against the panel’s charges."

Be nice, or I will get my big brother to sort you out..

Not a chance dearie they have you firmly in their cross hairs. After they are done they might even stuff and mount you and put you in that new museum that they built. Also I hear the wax museum in London is making inquires Madame Toussard I believe. You should have done a runner while you had the chance. You will loose and your lawyers with appeals etc. they will be the big winners. They the lawyers are the worst of the worst right after politico's and the banksters, and the big money boys. Up a creek without a paddle comes to mind.

[webfact]

CORRUPTION
Yingluck appeals to Prayut over 'unfair' rice losses order
THE NATION


Yingluck

BANGKOK: -- FORMER prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday urged current PM Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha not to issue an administrative order to make her pay compensation for state losses over the rice-pledging scheme.

She said such an order was against the rule of law since the court had yet to rule on a criminal case against her.

She said Prayut's legal specialists had "adopted a legal technique" to seek compensation by having the PM issue an administrative order without seeking Cabinet approval to make individuals pay compensation, like an order to seize assets. This was to avoid hefty court fees when filing a civil suit, she alleged.

She called on Prayut to opt for court procedures to seek civil liability, since the court was regarded as a justice channel.

"For issuing this administrative order, it is like you exercise your power like a court issues a verdict, as you incriminate individuals who must pay compensation over the rice pledging scheme - even though the Supreme Court has yet to rule on a criminal trial. This is a grave violation against the rule of law," she said.

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam defended the civil action being taken against Yingluck, saying the administrative order would be issued in accordance with the Liability for Wrongful Act of Officials Act 1996.

"The government resorted to normal legal procedures that have been used for over 20 years with more than 300 orders issued. These orders were issued even during the Yingluck government regime," he said.

He said the government must take recourse to this Act because the National Anti-Corruption Commission found that Yingluck committed grave negligence that caused huge damage to the state. He said that Article 10 of the Act stipulated that an administrative order must be issued before the two-year statute of limitations expires. The individuals in question could file a petition to the Administrative Court to revoke the administrative order, he noted.

Yingluck said her lawyer would today submit a petition at Government House's complaint centre, calling on Prayut to ensure justice for her over the government's civil action case.

In her petition, Yingluck said Prayut issued a Finance Ministry directive dated April 3 to appoint a fact-finding panel over the civil liability claim. "If it is wrong, we have a mechanism to demand compensation over a civil liability. I will adopt the same standard to every group to ensure justice," Yingluck quoted Prayut as saying.

She claimed that Prayut had no legitimacy to issue the order because as chairman of the National Rice Policy Committee, he was regarded as a "stakeholder" and was not neutral because he may have different rice policies from her government.

Yingluck said she hoped that Prayut stuck with his words to "ensure justice" by not rushing legal procedures but providing opportunities for concerned parties to present evidence.

She said Prayut's legal specialists had said there was plenty of time left before the statute of limitations of the civil case over the rice-pledging scheme expired - so the government should not rush civil proceedings against her.

She said she submitted several documents to Prayut and concerned committees but they were not considered and no reason was given.

Yingluck posted the letter in her personal Facebook page both in Thai and English.

Wissanu said the government had to take a civil action before the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders issues a verdict because the statute of limitations in a civil case would expire in February 2017. "We have to issue an order fast and we cannot wait otherwise we will face legal action for not taking a civil action. Once the civil case is brought to the Administrative Court to revoke the order, the statute of limitations will be 10 or 20 years,'' he explained.

Asked what if the Supreme Court acquitted the defendants in a criminal trial, Wissanu said that did not matter and he did not believe the court would make a speedy ruling.

On Yingluck's claim that Prayut had no legitimacy to issue an order against her because he was a "stakeholder", Wissanu said he had no clue how Prayut would benefit or lose from issuing the order. But he insisted that Yingluck had the right to appeal the order with the Administrative Court.

Wissanu added that if Yingluck filed a petition with the court, she would have to prove whether she committed grave negligence. "That means she is fighting charges levelled by the NACC and not the government," he said.

A Finance Ministry Post-Audit Committee on the rice-pledging had estimated the loss incurred from the scheme at about Bt600 billion.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-appeals-to-Prayut-over-unfair-rice-losses-30270748.html#


-- The Nation 2015-10-13

[ramrod711]

I am shocked! I remember Ms. Yingluck vowed to the protesting farmers that they would be paid within 1 week and that they should go home.

You mean she didn't fulfill her vow, and lied and they didn't get paid.

Shocked. And now she wants to be treated fair.

Perhaps someone should vow not to seize her assets and not to jail her - and lie.

I would be interested in reading your supporting articles and material about what you said she said. Could I get you to post them? Thanks.

11 February 2014

Caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra reassured farmers that they would be paid as her government’s financial status is sound enough to seek loans from financial institutions to pay farmers.

She dismissed speculation that her government was broke and was unable to pay farmers.

Instead, she said, the fiscal position of her caretaker government was sound enough to secure loans from financial institutions with pledge that all farmers who have their rice vouchers would be certainly paid.

She lied to the farmers while knowing a caretaker Government cannot borrow money, or either she was too stupid to know it was against the law as Shins have always thought that they are above the law. eg illegal land deals, bribing judges, buying votes, not returning to face trial, illegal share trading, the list is endless.

Sorry but I would like the source and the full article, not a cut an paste. It helps to put it into context.

I did read what you posed but dont see she promised to pay them back in a week nor any mention of her telling them they should go home. Maybe its in another article.

G o o g l e, try that, let us know what you find.

[arrowsdawdle]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

Since the coup and article 44.

[oneday]

That's like the chicken asking the wolf not to eat you. I'm afraid, YL, there will be no relief coming from Mr. P. This government wants blood, red blood and you are the best and only RICH target they have to take out their anger on. Your brother needs to get you out of this country.

[HenryB]

This is a great idea the UN should go after LBJ for Viet Nam, Clinton for Libya and the Bushes for Iraq, even Obama for Afghanistan

It is time for World leader to pay for mistakes

Edited October 13, 2015 by HenryB

[phantomfiddler]

she never once sat in on any meetings yet she had nominated herself as the chairperson of it, every decision they made was meant to be approved by her yet she simply refused to give up her precious shopping time to attend them. When the corruption was raised she strenuously denied there was any involved so that it could continue on,she did the same with parliament, how many sittings did she actually attend, it was all one big game for her, she played pm while she refused to do any of the required duties of her office. All because she found her shopping trips overseas were more important than making sure the country was running properly. We can only hope that she has all he assets seized and sends many years in jail, she needs to realize that being a total dip sh*t isnt an excuse, she has to accept she stuffed up big time and her brother and family name are not going to get her out of it as they have all of her life, she has at last hit the brick wall

Everything that you say is true, but her real crime was going along knowingly with what big brother was ordering her to do, all for personal gain, as if the wretched family didn,t have enough ill gotten gains already She deserves time and a huge fine, and then we will see the true colours of big brother !

[Eric Loh]

Perhaps the General should ask Yingluck for a little fairness and bring back the millions in tax payers money she bunged into her Brothers bank account while she was in charge of the country's funds. Fair deal i would say !

The ridiculous gets more ridiculous. Get a grip. Exaggeration going wild.

[peteregion]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

Hello All the Experts here.

This is not a case of whether YL made any money out of it. It is that she was negligent in her duty as a Prime Minister overseeing the scheme to let it deteriorate to such a big loss for the State.

There was already a precedent where a senior government official was held negligent and made to compensate the State for losses to the State.

Go read the case by the government of Thailand of Prime Minister Thaksin Sinawatra against Roengchai Marakanon, former head of the Bank of Thailand during the economic crisis of 1997, in a negligence liabilities of officials case where Roengchai was made to compensate the State.

[peteregion]

since when are PM's financially liable for failed policy

let alone collective responsibility

Since the coup and article 44.

Hello All the Experts here.

This is not a case of whether YL made any money out of it. It is that she was negligent in her duty as a Prime Minister overseeing the scheme to let it deteriorate to such a big loss for the State.

There was already a precedent where a senior government official was held negligent and made to compensate the State for losses to the State.

Go read the case by the government of Thailand of Prime Minister Thaksin Sinawatra against Roengchai Marakanon, former head of the Bank of Thailand during the economic crisis of 1997, in a negligence liabilities of officials case where Roengchai was made to compensate the State.

[godden]

I think fai would be to see her net worth when she came to office and her net worth when kicked out of office and take the difference

[Just1Voice]

and when are they going to seize the assets of those who took over Government House, and the airports? Oh, never mind, those were the "good people", so it's okay.