Seasoning bank account money for "combination" retirement extensions

[Jingthing]

I want to inform people nationally who intend to apply for retirement extensions using the "combination" method (mixing income letter and Thai bank account to total at least 800K baht) that there is a lot of evidence that many offices are enforcing (or starting to warn that they will later enforce) SEASONING requirements on the bank account portion.

For applications using the full bank account 800K option, the seasoning rule is two months for the first extension, and three months for all subsequent extensions. This is clearly written in the national rules.

For "combination" applications, the national rules do not specify the need for any seasoning and the advice here over many years has been no bank account seasoning needed. Although some offices have still enforced seasoning.

NOW ... there does appear to be strong evidence that a change in enforcement is becoming more widespread ... in that we are hearing cases of seasoning being enforced on combination applications in major immigration offices.

As far as I know, there is no official announcement or rule change from Thai immigration about this.

However, I am going to go out on a limb and suggest all people planning a combination application in future to be cautious and go ahead and season the bank account portion going forward.

I am assuming, only assuming, that the two months/three months rule that applies to 800K applications would also apply with combination seasoning. In other words two months for the first, three months for subsequent extensions.

If you are TOO LATE to season the funds at this point for an upcoming extension, I suggest going in as early as possible for your next extension. Then if it's bad news and the application is rejected based on seasoning, you have a lot of time to start over with a new O visa. But it could also be good news: either it's not an issue at all, or they tell you that this year OK, next year be seasoned.

Be advised we had a case report today at Jomtien, which processes a large volume of retirement extensions, of such an application being rejected as it wasn't seasoned, and the unlucky applicant is being told to start over with a new O visa. Personally, I think that is unfair ... the applicant had no way of knowing about this enforcement change before.

Again, this isn't anything official. Just a strong heads up. Better to to be safe and avoid even the potential of having to start over with a new O visa if you don't have to.

There is a special issue with these combination applications ... exposure to EXCHANGE RATE fluctuations on the income portion of the application.

Hopefully, immigration at the national level will make a clear announcement about this at some time ... but we can't count on that, can we?

Edited October 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

I doubt there will be any announcement as it would seem this order change goes back to mid 2014.

My office confirmed that they will allow non seasoned funds but only for small lump sums to cover fluctuations in the exchange rate. So it's still worth asking at the office processing the application.

Although there may not have been a public announcement about any change to IO's orders the requirement for seasoning is clear on the immigration website, which I assume is one of the main information sources they use to advise foreigners of the rules and regulations.

Source: Immigration website.

For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;
2.1 In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.
- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)
- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or
2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;
2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1 and 2.2

[ubonjoe]

I doubt there will be any announcement as it would seem this order change goes back to mid 2014.

My office confirmed that they will allow non seasoned funds but only for small lump sums to cover fluctuations in the exchange rate. So it's still worth asking at the office processing the application.

Although there may not have been a public announcement about any change to IO's orders the requirement for seasoning is clear on the immigration website, which I assume is one of the main information sources they use to advise foreigners of the rules and regulations.

Source: Immigration website.

For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;

2.1 In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.

- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)

- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or

2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare

- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;

2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1 and 2.2

What immigration website are those on. On the Bangkok immigration website there is nothing in red written in red.

[sinbin]

They are not accepting fixed term accounts as proof of money at Kap Choeng Immigration, they also want to see an ordinary bank account showing movement of money. If you don't take that ordinary account book with you then they want to see it on their home visit. The home visit thet say will now be done every other year. They will stop home visits once you reach 70 years old.

Edited October 14, 2015 by sinbin

[elviajero]

I doubt there will be any announcement as it would seem this order change goes back to mid 2014.

My office confirmed that they will allow non seasoned funds but only for small lump sums to cover fluctuations in the exchange rate. So it's still worth asking at the office processing the application.

Although there may not have been a public announcement about any change to IO's orders the requirement for seasoning is clear on the immigration website, which I assume is one of the main information sources they use to advise foreigners of the rules and regulations.

Source: Immigration website.

For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;

2.1 In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.

- The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)

- Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or

2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare

- Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;

2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1 and 2.2

What immigration website are those on. On the Bangkok immigration website there is nothing in red written in red.

I gave you the link.

[ubonjoe]

That is under FAQ.

I look at the page for required documents. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service But you need to be using IE to open them. I used IE tab on Chrome.

[elviajero]

That is under FAQ.

I look at the page for required documents. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service But you need to be using IE to open them. I used IE tab on Chrome.

Maybe you do and maybe thats different (I don't use IE), but the fact remains that the FAQ's are as I quoted.

When I'm looking for information the first place I go on a website is the FAQ's.

[Jingthing]

A FAQ is hardly an official rule change but is a very interesting clue which seems to support that the trend that seems to emerging about requiring seasoning for combination applications is coming from something/somewhere other than just random offices deciding in a ROGUE kind of way to enforce differently. I want to emphasize that I posted this thread just to be helpful to people so that they have the opportunity to prevent avoidable problems. In this current environment, it seems that in an increasing number of offices not seasoning in cases of combination applications might very well be a problem.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

That is under FAQ.

I look at the page for required documents. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service But you need to be using IE to open them. I used IE tab on Chrome.

Maybe you do and maybe thats different (I don't use IE), but the fact remains that the FAQ's are as I quoted.

When I'm looking for information the first place I go on a website is the FAQ's.

What it says in the FAQ is "the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1 and 2.2". That would be the proof of income and proof of the money in the bank not the seasoning.

[elviajero]

That is under FAQ.

I look at the page for required documents. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service But you need to be using IE to open them. I used IE tab on Chrome.

Maybe you do and maybe thats different (I don't use IE), but the fact remains that the FAQ's are as I quoted.

When I'm looking for information the first place I go on a website is the FAQ's.

What it says in the FAQ is "the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1 and 2.2". That would be the proof of income and proof of the money in the bank not the seasoning.

I interpret it as a document (bank book) showing the amount of lump sum used and that it has been in the account for 3 (or 2) months. As it's referring directly to the lump sum rule there is no logical reason to assume otherwise.

e.g. Updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months

[phuketrichard]

Phuket does not "require" seasoning but they do ask for a copy of ur atm card that is used to access the funds u receive as a pension ( new this year)

[Jingthing]

I reckon the more consequential question now is how immigration offices are interpreting and enforcing it.

[Jingthing]

Phuket does not "require" seasoning but they do ask for a copy of ur atm card that is used to access the funds u receive as a pension ( new this year)

Excuse me, are they saying they will always require a FOREIGN ATM card for applications using either the pure income method or the combination method? That seems crazy. A lot of foreign expats don't even have currently valid foreign ATM cards. There are other ways to get the funds into Thailand where you can access by ATM using THAI bank accounts.

[OJAS]

"Be advised we had a case report today at Jomtien, which processes a large volume of retirement extensions, of such an application being rejected as it wasn't seasoned, and the unlucky applicant is being told to start over with a new O visa."

But this would surely not be possible in the short term at least if the likes of Vientiane and Penang were to insist on similar seasoning requirements for non-O applicants using the combo method of proving finances?

I wonder whether a possible way forward might be for you Americans - in particular those of you who are directly impacted by this change - to take this matter up with your Embassy. It was as a direct result of representations on their part to the Immigration powers-that-be that the maximum validity period for income confirmation letters/affidavits was increased to 6 months a couple of years ago, in response to a proposal to limit this to 15 days - see thread at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644827-immigration-extends-validity-of-income-verification-letter/

Edited October 14, 2015 by OJAS

[phuketrichard]

phuketrichard, on 14 Oct 2015 - 16:51, said:

Phuket does not "require" seasoning but they do ask for a copy of ur atm card that is used to access the funds u receive as a pension ( new this year)

Excuse me, are they saying they will always require a FOREIGN ATM card for applications using either the pure income method or the combination method? That seems crazy. A lot of foreign expats don't even have currently valid foreign ATM cards. There are other ways to get the funds into Thailand where you can access by ATM using THAI bank accounts.

for PHUKET YES

u wont get passed the farang volunteer unless u make a copy-- i didn't know the rule when i did mine in July, as it was a new rule and Luckily had it with me an had to go downstairs an make a copy of the front only.

they want to see how u access the money u have deposited into your overseas account. -- guess they dont know u can have it wired to your thai account LOL

Edited October 14, 2015 by phuketrichard

[elviajero]

Phuket does not "require" seasoning but they do ask for a copy of ur atm card that is used to access the funds u receive as a pension ( new this year)

Do you use this method yourself without seasoned funds?

If so....

1. when did you last successfully apply ​without seasoned funds?
2. how much was the pension and bank deposit used?

Not everyone is as fortunate at Pukhet. This report says otherwise.

Edited October 14, 2015 by elviajero

[Jingthing]

"Be advised we had a case report today at Jomtien, which processes a large volume of retirement extensions, of such an application being rejected as it wasn't seasoned, and the unlucky applicant is being told to start over with a new O visa."

But this would surely not be possible in the short term at least if the likes of Vientiane and Penang were to insist on similar seasoning requirements for non-O applicants using the combo method of proving finances?

I wonder whether a possible way forward might be for you Americans - in particular those of you who are directly impacted by this change - to take this matter up with your Embassy. It was as a direct result of representations on their part to the Immigration powers-that-be that the maximum validity period for income confirmation letters/affidavits was increased to 6 months a couple of years ago, in response to a proposal to limit this to 15 days - see thread at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644827-immigration-extends-validity-of-income-verification-letter/

You've got an important detail confused.

Money seasoning is NOT required for O visa applications.

The seasoning when needed is for EXTENSION applications.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

"Be advised we had a case report today at Jomtien, which processes a large volume of retirement extensions, of such an application being rejected as it wasn't seasoned, and the unlucky applicant is being told to start over with a new O visa."

But this would surely not be possible in the short term at least if the likes of Vientiane and Penang were to insist on similar seasoning requirements for non-O applicants using the combo method of proving finances?

I wonder whether a possible way forward might be for you Americans - in particular those of you who are directly impacted by this change - to take this matter up with your Embassy. It was as a direct result of representations on their part to the Immigration powers-that-be that the maximum validity period for income confirmation letters/affidavits was increased to 6 months a couple of years ago, in response to a proposal to limit this to 15 days - see thread at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644827-immigration-extends-validity-of-income-verification-letter/

Seasoning is not required when obtaining the visa.

[phuketrichard]

Phuket does not "require" seasoning but they do ask for a copy of ur atm card that is used to access the funds u receive as a pension ( new this year)

Do you use this method yourself without seasoned funds?

If so....

1. when did you last successfully apply ​without seasoned funds?
2. how much was the pension and bank deposit used?

Not everyone is as fortunate at Pukhet. This report says otherwise.

Tes

July

funds in bank around 275,000 baht

[Jingthing]

Reports as old as July may not fully reflect the trend of requiring seasoning for combination applications. We are dealing with a moving target here and I posted this topic because I was convinced that there really is a trend. Not a full national change but a trend.

Just a heads up for combination applicants. If you can season and still have time to season for your next extension ... there may now be a good reason to do so in more offices than before. So, why not season?

Edited October 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[johnno2]

I live here on a retirement extension. my renewal is next march. I was bored today and looking through the thai immigration website and came across this relating to visa extensions...

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or
---------->(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account deposited (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than
Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a
deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to
the filing date or
(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht
800,000 as of the filing date.
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively
permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in
a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of
no less than Baht 20,000.

( If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed
income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht
500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000.

call me dumb, I don't mind, but isn't it strange that this says that for the first year, you only need the money seasoned for 60 days, but after that, it has to be seasoned for 90 days? am I reading this correctly? I was never very good at reading gibberish

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service click on "visa extension" and then "in the case of retirement"

Edited October 27, 2015 by johnno2

[elviajero]

You read it correctly. 60 days for the first extension and 3 months every extension thereafter.

[oncearugge]

johnno2

It makes sense to me !

Where is the "gibberish" you complain about.

Maybe you should read the original Thai version and not the "gibberish" English translation.