Chiangmai Thai

[bladyslacker]

i'll be heading north to teach starting end-Oct. was hoping some folks in here can help me with Chiangmai dialect.

i understand from my previous trip... 20B = sao baht and 25B = sao ha baht. very different from the yi sip baht most people know.

does anybody have anymore Chiangmai thai for me to know?

khop khun krap

[In the Rai!]

i'll be heading north to teach starting end-Oct. was hoping some folks in here can help me with Chiangmai dialect.

i understand from my previous trip... 20B = sao baht and 25B = sao ha baht. very different from the yi sip baht most people know.

does anybody have anymore Chiangmai thai for me to know?

khop khun krap

คำเมือง kum muang = local language or "Northern Thai"

This is used a lot up these parts.

Angry = โขด or kord

delicious = ลำ or Lum its just like อร่อย aroy in Bangkok

There is a couple..

Hope they help

In The Rai!

[BambinA]

Kum Meung Dictionary (in thai language)

http://www.cm77.com/word/word_search.php

See all vocabs (start from p.8)

http://www.cm77.com/word/all_word.php?page...word=''

wiki thai ,Kum Meung

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%84%E0%...%B8%AD%E0%B8%87

so, you may post some words you want to know and i can search that dictionary and translate from Thai to English for you

http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=574

[bladyslacker]

It's all in Thai.

Thanks for the links, but I'm afraid I cannot read Thai. I can speak some Thai, (poot thai nit noi), but I can't read.

What would I like to know?

Well, some basic phrases, simple vocab... and basically, anything that is practical for daily usage.

Khop Khun Krap.

Kum Meung Dictionary (in thai language)

http://www.cm77.com/word/word_search.php

See all vocabs (start from p.8)

http://www.cm77.com/word/all_word.php?page...word=''

wiki thai ,Kum Meung

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%84%E0%...%B8%AD%E0%B8%87

so, you may post some words you want to know and i can search that dictionary and translate from Thai to English for you

http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=574

[PeaceBlondie]

Among themselves, local natives speak lots of northern words. But in speaking to farang, they all know central dialect.

I like to joke with Chiang Mai language, since I don't speak Thai:

sapalote (pineapple) = bahkanot

tangmo (watermelon) = bah tao

pomelo (Thai grapefruit) = sumo

im laow (full stomach) = ka tong'

I'm sure my spellings are wrong, and my pronunciations even worse. It usually gets a laugh, though. Now, I'm off to the swimming pool to pay sahw baht.

[bladyslacker]

Hey, I paid 50B to use a private pool at a condominium. None of the residents seem to utilise the facility, so I the pool all to myself.

You pay sao baht?!?!

Among themselves, local natives speak lots of northern words. But in speaking to farang, they all know central dialect.

I like to joke with Chiang Mai language, since I don't speak Thai:

sapalote (pineapple) = bahkanot

tangmo (watermelon) = bah tao

pomelo (Thai grapefruit) = sumo

im laow (full stomach) = ka tong'

I'm sure my spellings are wrong, and my pronunciations even worse. It usually gets a laugh, though. Now, I'm off to the swimming pool to pay sahw baht.

[PeaceBlondie]

Public pool in ChangPuak neighborhood, outside the moat, private street, south of Simon Cabaret. Nearly deserted prior to 5 pm. You can pay twenty, yi-sip, or sahw baht; up to you. I'll put on my #30 sunblock and leave now. But the water is not cold, now.

[meadish_sweetball]

To go somewhere for leisure - bpai aeow

Thank you - (n)yin dii khap

The final polite particle for women is "jao" in the North, not "kha"

What in all heavens?!?; What's all that racket?!? - A-(n)yang ba-lum ba-leua?!?

The school is (way) over there - hohng hian yuu bpuun

he/she/they; sometimes even "I" - bpeun (nice to have such a vague pronoun at hand, isn't it?)

They went into town to take a stroll around the market - bpeun bpai nai wiang ja aeow gaat gan

bo/ba maen - no; incorrect

maen laeow - yes; correct

bakheua-tehd - guava (it sounds very similar to "tomato" in Central Thai)

bakheua ham maa - (literally 'horse dick eggplant') long green eggplant ('makheua haang yaao' in Central Thai)

[cm das]

Among themselves, local natives speak lots of northern words. But in speaking to farang, they all know central dialect.

I like to joke with Chiang Mai language, since I don't speak Thai:

sapalote (pineapple) = bahkanot

tangmo (watermelon) = bah tao

pomelo (Thai grapefruit) = sumo

im laow (full stomach) = ka tong'

Like PB says, Muang isn't necessary in Chiang Mai & in fact I have more than a few young adult local students who don't even know the local language. Of course, once you're out of the city and/or dealing with people who've never been to school, the local language takes on greater prominence. Still, in 3 years I've come across only one local who didn't speak BKK Thai - an old farmer I ran into on a bicycle ride outside San Kamphaeng. But if you want to make a good impression & get a laugh it's great to try out some local language. One common rule for changing Thai into Muang is to change initial 'r' into 'h'. So 'know' is 'hoo', 'hot' is 'hawn', 'love' is 'haak', etc. I'm sure this isn't true 100% of the time but it helps. Also, I believe that 'ka tong' isn't quite the same as 'im leaw'. I think it's more colloquial & stronger - something like "I'm stuffed" rather than "I'm full". It always gets a laugh but I wouldn't use it with anyone other than friends. Good luck.

[bladyslacker]

Like PB says, Muang isn't necessary in Chiang Mai & in fact I have more than a few young adult local students who don't even know the local language. Of course, once you're out of the city and/or dealing with people who've never been to school, the local language takes on greater prominence. Still, in 3 years I've come across only one local who didn't speak BKK Thai - an old farmer I ran into on a bicycle ride outside San Kamphaeng. But if you want to make a good impression & get a laugh it's great to try out some local language. One common rule for changing Thai into Muang is to change initial 'r' into 'h'. So 'know' is 'hoo', 'hot' is 'hawn', 'love' is 'haak', etc. I'm sure this isn't true 100% of the time but it helps. Also, I believe that 'ka tong' isn't quite the same as 'im leaw'. I think it's more colloquial & stronger - something like "I'm stuffed" rather than "I'm full". It always gets a laugh but I wouldn't use it with anyone other than friends. Good luck.

it's always nice to know a bit of the local language.

when i was teaching in Isan, i picked up some Thai/Lao and it was very useful. earn that little bit more respect... and the occasional discounts at the market.

[meadish_sweetball]

'love' is 'haak'

Good point about 'r' becoming 'h' in some words, but you have to be careful with the transcription... if you draw out the vowel length and apply falling tone, 'haak' is the kham mueang equivalent of Central Thai "uak", i.e. throw up, vomit.

There are of course no absolute transcription rules, but I'd write 'hag' / 'hak' or 'hug' / 'huk' (the final is silent anyway). The vowel sound is the same as RP English 'hug'.

Also, I believe that 'ka tong' isn't quite the same as 'im leaw'. I think it's more colloquial & stronger - something like "I'm stuffed" rather than "I'm full".

Yes, I agree.

[lamphun]

I've yet to see a Kum Meaung - English phrasebook. The only books I've found are in Thai.

[Richard W]

There are of course no absolute transcription rules, but I'd write 'hag' / 'hak' or 'hug' / 'huk' (the final is silent anyway). The vowel sound is the same as RP English 'hug'.

Is there any reason not to use the same sets of rules as for Siamese? Of course, we need a new symbol for mai tho + high/mid consonant (the sixth tone) - HH? HF?

[meadish_sweetball]

No, I agree that would make sense for internal use, Richard.

Just saying that as far as I know, there is no accepted transcription of Kham Meuang on a more general level.

[Iamemjay]

I do not agree that it is not necessary to learn the local dialect - and in saying this I'm wondering iof someone can help me overcome the problems presented by them.

I live in a small village near Fang, which, while only 150k North of Chiangmai, has yet another dialect.

The problem is that whilst I am busy learning the lingo what is available is all standard (Bangkok) Thai, which yes, they understand when I speak it (mostly!!)..... but generally I haven't a clue what they say, because they speak in the local dialect. Hence my listening skills have remained generally undeveloped - I don't know their vocabulary!

When I ask about it I get the answer that in Bangkok (something) is x, in CM it's y, but here it's z - mostly 3 distinctly different words! I find it difficult enough learning one word, but three????

Any answers (other than give up)???

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes, skip the Chiang Mai step and learn the local variation of Northern Thai, as well as standard Thai which you are already learning.

Apart from that, you'll just have to find yourself a teacher up there. It'll probably be easier for you if you already learn Standard Thai to a high level, although that can be difficult to achieve when almost nobody uses it in daily life up there.

[Richard W]

I live in a small village near Fang, which, while only 150k North of Chiangmai, has yet another dialect.

Does this dialect have a name? There are several different Tai dialects (languages according to Ethnologue) spoken in Northern Thailand besides Northern Tai.

[Iamemjay]

I live in a small village near Fang, which, while only 150k North of Chiangmai, has yet another dialect.

Does this dialect have a name? There are several different Tai dialects (languages according to Ethnologue) spoken in Northern Thailand besides Northern Tai.

Not that I'm aware of. In history Fang was the capital of a "kingdom" (princedom? feifdom?) of its own - had its own royal palace etc. I guess this was the basis of its difference language-wise. When questioned the locals refer to the dialect as "passar Thai Fang" only.

[Johpa]

I live in a small village near Fang, which, while only 150k North of Chiangmai, has yet another dialect.

Does this dialect have a name? There are several different Tai dialects (languages according to Ethnologue) spoken in Northern Thailand besides Northern Tai.

Not that I'm aware of. In history Fang was the capital of a "kingdom" (princedom? feifdom?) of its own - had its own royal palace etc. I guess this was the basis of its difference language-wise. When questioned the locals refer to the dialect as "passar Thai Fang" only.

There are probably just as many villages around Fang that do not speak Thai or Kham Muang as there are villages that do. Although they speak a fairly standard Kham Muang in the town of Fang, there are neighboring villages that tend to speak Tai "dialects" that derive from populations originating in the older Muangs that were located to the north in Burma. You might want to ask around to be sure your not in a Shan (Tai Yai) village or in a minority village that has only recently assimilated towards a Thai identity. I know that in my wife's village it took me a few years to realize that the reason I understood so little was that the local slang used was K'mu, the language of the eldest generation of the area.

By the way, last time I was there, still great khao Soi at the shop at the old main intersection in Fang. Also some of the best home made tao huu yii can be found in the surrounding KMT villages.