RidgeRunner Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) If I was charged with managing a commercial building, the first thing I would do is get all my safety systems in order to cover my ass. Fire extinguishers, hoses, alarms, keeping the exits clear, and get my insurance policy paid. I mean, what would happen to me if there was a fire and 100 people got trapped in a crush, rushing for the exits and died due to my negligence? Recently I was wondering thru a building and thinking, how can this place get fire insurance coverage? The safety hazards are off the charts, even for Thailand. TucCom is jam packed with electronics and kilometres of wires strung all over the place. Shouldn't it be a priority to at least keep the exits and pathways clear in an environment like this? The entrance lobby, hallways, even the fire stairs are rented to businesses, stacked with good that clog the escape routes. 2 people can barely get past the the openings at the front door. There will be a calamity if a fire ever breaks out. Not a chance the crowd of panicked people will get out safely. Might be worse than Santika Club where 68 charred bodies were found, piled up in the stampede to safety. Those poor kids didn't realise the manager nonchalanted their safety. Surely there are minimum standards in the commercial building code. The Fire Department doesn't have a safety officer inspecting these commercial places and their safety systems? Wouldn't an insurance company would want to see a certificate of something before taking on a liability like a shopping mall? Be careful out there and know where the exits are. Edited October 22, 2015 by RidgeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Posted 2015-10-02 10:30:32 Several years ago our condo spent in excess of 1,000000 Baht upgrading our condo to conform to the "Thai Building Control Act", huge fines were threatened for non compliance, after saying this very few older condos I know of, have bothered. For me I sleep much more soundly knowing that i am not in danger of being "Roasted Alive" Please see link below. http://www.samuifors...ct-in-thai.html Posted this on a similar topic earlier this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) If it's anything like the Thai compulsory car insurance, the coverage amount is so low they don't worry too much... 20 story condo with 40 units burned down? Here's your check for 100,000 baht... Edited October 22, 2015 by impulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Sorry Ridge Runner, I failed to answer your question re. insurance. After gaining our fire certificate by compliance with the "Thai Building Control act, as stated in my previous post, we have to have a yearly inspection by a government certified surveyor, I don't remember the exact cost of this yearly survey, but it is something like 15 K maybe. My point here is that our insurance company insist on having the yearly survey carried out before renewing our cover. I can imagine there may be the comments stating this is not the case or this is not required, but this is a factual post,based on how the B.C.A. is handled by our condo Juristic Person. The problem here in Thailand, is,there are many sensible laws / rules, that are supposed to be complied with, but very little enforcement or follow up to see that they actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 If it's anything like the Thai compulsory car insurance, the coverage amount is so low they don't worry too much... 20 story condo with 40 units burned down? Here's your check for 100,000 baht... Our 150 room Condo has a "Sum Insured" of 800 Million Baht, with an annual premium of 482,000 Baht, this includes Employers Liability and a D and O cover, of up to 5 MillionBaht. We have had numerous claims over the years, mostly Storm or water damage, they have all be settled without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGS1244 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The fire departments have nothing to do with fire safety enforcement, that is left up to government inspectors, hence the lack of suitable and adequate fire protection. Although insurance companies have their own standards it is mostly geared to property protection not liability. If it is a Thai insurer then their standards will be lower and only enforced/requested just enough to satisfy the underwriter who does not want to loose the account to another company by being pedantic. Foreign insurers have more strict requirements but that may increase premiums with additional warranties and conditions which a locally owned company does not want to follow. So..s law what can go wrong will. The National Standards are quite good and comparable with many international codes such as BS, NFPA, etc. but rarely enforced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyjustice Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Enforcement. The laws almost match laws in US. The difference is a fire marshal can close a business for just the lack of inspections. Have seen one threaten to close a hospital. Thailand, no enforcement. Just like the helmet laws. Being a fire safety engineer it's the first thing I look for - fire alarm, sprinklers, extingushers. Ubon airport saw none. Amazingly though I was at a Hop Inn and they were doing a fire alarm inspection, guess all is not lost. Also Thailand has adopted NFPA, at least on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Posted 2015-10-02 10:30:32 Several years ago our condo spent in excess of 1,000000 Baht upgrading our condo to conform to the "Thai Building Control Act", huge fines were threatened for non compliance, after saying this very few older condos I know of, have bothered. For me I sleep much more soundly knowing that i am not in danger of being "Roasted Alive" Please see link below. http://www.samuifors...ct-in-thai.html Posted this on a similar topic earlier this month. Quote I have heard that newer buildings are required to have a fresh air system pressurising the stairwell to keep the smoke out. Seems like a fine idea. Wonder the cost if our 15 year old condo could be retrofitted to have this system installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Are there any condo laws or city laws requiring our condo management hold fire drills & test systems? I noticed the fire extinguishers are out of date. We have sprinklers thruout the building but I don't think they have ever been checked in 15 years. I imagine there could be rust or crud in those old pipes that should be flushed out occasionally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalf12 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 They wont go far wrong if they adopt and enforce the requirements of NFPA. I have worked with these standards and they cover everything you can think of and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fookhaht Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 In the West, insurance companies are among the first in a line of defense against calamity. The government requires an insurance certificate to operate. The insurance company requires a maximum standard of safety before issuing the certificate--obviously to mitigate against their own potential losses. The process is broken somewhere along the link in Thailand. Usually at the beck-and-call of corrupt officials/insurance inspectors. Look at how many tragedies over the last 10 years have involved either 1) lack of inspections, 2) inspections by a "blind" eye, or 3) no insurance certification at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Kubasa Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I was an agent, 30 years, with the leading US insurer of property both personal and commercial & have no idea how, other then a few, property owners get coverage in Thailand. I would write an APPLICATION, subject to rigorous, I mean experts examing the property, company inspection, and records were obtained re new customer's previous claims, ( if any ), and only when all cleared away was an actual policy issued. As policies ARE issued I can only surmise that premiums for all applicants have a built in, but not declared, surcharge that exceeds losses due to customer's failure to provide INSURABLE property & customer arson. The same holds true for vehicular insurance as it is beyond common sense that a 20 year old male, single, with several previous losses & traffic violations ( they don't check ! ), can obtain coverage at all and get it at the same premium as as a 40 year old, married man , with no losses ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 I really am concerned for the people working in places like TukCom. The manager has compromised their safety in a big way when he leased the space designated as corridor & stairwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I really am concerned for the people working in places like TukCom. The manager has compromised their safety in a big way when he leased the space designated as corridor & stairwell. It must be around say 15 years ago when the present Tuk Com, was a department store, it was reported by the local media I think, that the power was cut off by a security guard just prior to a long holiday weekend, and he failed to check the lifts, I can't remember the number, but all of the lift passengers died of suffocation, only to be discovered when the place was reopened several days later. The place was closed down for years afterwards, finally opening as Tuk Com maybe some 10 years ago ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker1 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Excellent post. I have been in situations like yours in Bangkok mostly, including Nightclubs and Disco's and always leave immediately. But I always want to warn others and the Authorities but have no idea how. Any suggestions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Posted 2015-10-02 10:30:32 Several years ago our condo spent in excess of 1,000000 Baht upgrading our condo to conform to the "Thai Building Control Act", huge fines were threatened for non compliance, after saying this very few older condos I know of, have bothered. For me I sleep much more soundly knowing that i am not in danger of being "Roasted Alive" Please see link below. http://www.samuifors...ct-in-thai.html Posted this on a similar topic earlier this month. Quote I have heard that newer buildings are required to have a fresh air system pressurising the stairwell to keep the smoke out. Seems like a fine idea. Wonder the cost if our 15 year old condo could be retrofitted to have this system installed? Please see my previously posted link above to samuifors re "Thai Building Control Act" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I really am concerned for the people working in places like TukCom. The manager has compromised their safety in a big way when he leased the space designated as corridor & stairwell. That doesn't seems so bad as that to me. The main stairs is still useable, and you also have escalators to go down, and there is no less than 7 exits (street access) at Tukcom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosseway Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I really am concerned for the people working in places like TukCom. The manager has compromised their safety in a big way when he leased the space designated as corridor & stairwell. That doesn't seems so bad as that to me. The main stairs is still useable, and you also have escalators to go down, and there is no less than 7 exits (street access) at Tukcom. Lifts should not be used,without exception in the event of a fire, also blocking the stairways is illegal, and would of course compromise safety in the event of a smoke and fire incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya46 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Lifts should not be used,without exception in the event of a fire, also blocking the stairways is illegal, and would of course compromise safety in the event of a smoke and fire incident. I didn't talk about lifts but about escalators. No problem to use them in case of fire, regardless if they are still working or not. About the stairways they are not blocked; Yes there is a smallish "shop" on some intermediary platforms between 2 floors, but they don't "block" the passage. Agree that they should not be there though, as it's some kind of obstruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digbeth Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 On the subject of safety... has anyone come across any Thai building code regarding stairs? in many place stairs are unevenly spaced between rungs and is quite a hazard, some have too narrow rungs and very poorly thought of handrails, obviously some building extention/renovation are done without architect's supervision or plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loppylugs1 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 This is Thailand,that about says it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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