The Logic Behind The Visa Crackdown

[Mik]

Hi

We have recently arrived in Thailand (!) with a view to early retirement (below 50) so would appreciate some clarifiaction of your information on types of visa please. We are in the "not too strapped for cash" category and would willingly fork out something to stay here, we are in the absolutely love it stage of our stay. You mention we could switch to a 60 day tourist visa or a 90 day visa from Penang. We have been looking on Websites and visiting immigration but can not find out about them and how we could obtain one. We have information on non immigrant visas but we don't qualify as far as we can tell. Any help would be great.

Mik

The logic behind the visa crackdown

Or is it another financial own goal? Many myths are already growing up about the recent announcement that foreigners can only live in Thailand for 90 days out of 180 (in any six months period) if they insist of utilising the 30 day visa on arrivals available at border posts and immigration checkpoints. Three in a row and that’s your lot mate for the time being!

Some say the recent arrest and deportation of an alleged American pedophile, who had been teaching in Thai schools, prompted the immigration bureau to take a closer look at illegal working in general and the inadequate checks made on foreign teachers.

Others claim that on a recent trip to Pattaya, senior immigration police from Bangkok were horrified to see all those advertisements promoting visa runs to the Cambodian border. In reality, the visa crackdown is just a reminder that the Thais every now and again have doubts about their own hospitality policy. Are they in fact too open and welcoming? This nationalistic thinking in the Thai bureaucracy goes back a long way, at least until the 1970s when (as old hands remember) there was a rather similar crackdown during the administration of a military backed coup.

The squeeze on the visas on arrival is aimed at three distinct, howbeit overlapping, groups of farangs. The first are those using the visas on arrival to work in Thailand illegally.

In Pattaya, there are probably hundreds of such individuals running bars, teaching English without a work permit and so on. One of the problems is that work permits are not normally available for running a bar – too small an investment to count – and it’s hardly the farang teacher’s fault if the school chooses to hire him or her without adequate checks as there’s such a shortage of English speakers.

The second group are foreign men under 50 years of age. Thai immigration takes the view that they are too young to retire and, unless they have a work permit, are likely living here without paying taxes as they would have to do in their own country. Some of these guys marry a Thai national and immigration sources say they will carry out more checks in future to see if the couple really are in love. There’s also a suspicion that some men in this group could be international criminals who have been using the automatic visa on arrival at border posts to come and go more or less undetected.

The final group are the backpackers or, to be polite, the budget traveller. Their problem is shortage of cash rather than illegal working. There may well be hundreds of such men in Pattaya who can afford, just about, the monthly visa runs to Aranyaprathet or Pong Nam Ron. The Thai government is saying this market needs clearing out as they contribute next to nothing to the Thai economy.

Some of them run out of money altogether and go into overstay. When they are inevitably arrested sooner or later, the Thais have to feed them while they are held in jail. If they fall ill, they can become a further burden to the state. As when visa extension charges were raised from 500 baht to 1,900 baht a couple of years ago, some commentators are prophesying the end of mass tourism as we know it. It’s argued that everyone is going to uproot themselves and go to live in countries which will welcome them with open arms, such as Malaysia or Cambodia. So how likely is this? Not too likely.

Not everyone who has been using the visas on arrival to live here is short of cash. They can for instance switch to living here on 60 day tourist visas or 90 days non immigrant visas, all of which can be extended for one or two months according to type .

Some can obtain a multi entry visa when they return to their home country, assuming they do. In other words, some richer farangs have been using the visa on arrival as an easy, non bureaucratic way of residing here. They can find alternatives now that they must.

Some men over 50 will probably switch to the so-called one year retiremernt visa provided they have the necessary cash and pension income. The farangs in real trouble with the new regulations are those who are trapped here on small or inadequate budgets. Many are nice guys, but frankly they contribute little to the local economy. Their option as things now stand is to mix visas on arrival (for three months) with a single entry 90 day tourist visa from Penang.

In other words, the recent announcement about squeezing the visas on arrival will certainly cause difficulties. But it’s hardly the end of Thailand as a mass tourist destination centre. Anyway, what we don’t know is how long this latest crackdown will last. Nothing is forever as they say.

-- Pattaya Today 2006-10-01

[Pakboong]

The second group are foreign men under 50 years of age. Thai immigration takes the view that they are too young to retire

I'm really very sorry, but this makes me laughing my a... off!

In what kind of world these people are living???

What has property to do with the age????

I know a lot of people, which retired their self in an age below 50 years.

Is it the false of these lucky guys now, that they have more money than an average (foreign)pensioner in TH after 30 or 40 years of working and saving?

Which overstressed or even sick brain is responsible for this age-limitation????

Is it so difficult to accept the reality that age has nothing to do with income or property?

But probably it's a wonderful achievement/result to become 50 years of age in TH...a look at the driving behavior of the locals could enlighten us.

Age probably has nothing to do with any of this. The 3 million baht investment visa is now a 10 million baht alternative. Looks like Farang investing regardless of age is being discouraged. What percentage of all Farangs are able to invest 10million Baht in Thailand? I would think the number would be less than 5%. This information pretty much tells the whole tale.

[Pakboong]

The Urban Professional usually argues that he/she shoulders an extremely disproportionate tax burden. The poor pass their money amonst themselves and most pay little or no tax. Explaining alot about their intense displeasure with Thaksin skating taxes on the sale of his company for some $2 billion.

The poor often pass the money upwards - which is why they stay poor. Study immigrant history in the US and you find this to be true. This is bit of a moot opint, as they don't pay much tax ... what are they going to give?

Another thing about the displeasure at Thaksin's tax evasion ... there is a system of upper/lower classes in Thailand. The lower classes treat the upper classes with respect, help them out as much as they can, keep them in mind with good thoughts, etc. the upper classes in turn look out for the lower classes, show their naam jai (generosity), buy them things, treat them well, etc. by not paying his taxes, not only was Thaksin favoring non Thais over Thais (another big no-no) but he was showing himself to be selfish ... a MAJOR sin for someone in his position.

It clearly showed thaksin as someone who is out for himself at the expense of everyone else. This is just not how the elite are supposed to handle themselves ... mixed in with criminal behavior and a direct financial blow to Thai people.

TRT was not behind the rule adjustments we have seen in the last couple of months. There were many acts that appear to simply be desparation. TRT members trying to implement these adjustments at the last minute to perhaps salvage the party and their individual jobs. Didn't work but the effort speaks volumes. These are the rule adjustments that they (TRT) perceived that were favored most by TRT opposition.

[Firefan]

Age probably has nothing to do with any of this. The 3 million baht investment visa is now a 10 million baht alternative. Looks like Farang investing regardless of age is being discouraged. What percentage of all Farangs are able to invest 10million Baht in Thailand? I would think the number would be less than 5%. This information pretty much tells the whole tale.

Pakboong: wrong. There is (currently) no 10 M Baht investment visa. Cheers!

[Firefan]

I tend to agree that the biggest group now having a problem staying here "legally"(not counting eternal tourists ) long term is the under 50 with enough money or with income from abroad(investments/pensions/offshore work/whatever). Cheers!

[PREM-R]

(Drummer) ...there is a system of upper/lower classes in Thailand. The lower classes treat the upper classes with respect, help them out as much as they can, keep them in mind with good thoughts, etc. the upper classes in turn look out for the lower classes, show their naam jai (generosity), buy them things, treat them well, etc. by not paying his taxes, not only was Thaksin favoring non Thais over Thais (another big no-no) but he was showing himself to be selfish ... a MAJOR sin for someone in his position.

Are you sure about this.... my experience is that Thai people who perceive themselves as being "better" than another will treat that person with utter disdain. I can bring to mind no wealthy Thais who have shown any philanthropic spirit towards fellow citizens, save when making 'a big show' in front of visiting Royalty or politician. The philosphy of wealthy Thais seems to be "What is mine is my own.... what is yours, is mine, I just don't have it yet"

[Little Black Duck]

Guys,

The topic of this thread is: "The Logic Behind The Visa Crackdown". I fail to see where Pattaya or 'girls of negotiable affection' comes in to any of this. The Thais are uninterested in cracking down on prostitution. Have you been to Rachadapisek recently?! Too much money at stake. Too many important/influential people 'making out' to close this little earner...

The crackdown is very simple. Really. It's all about TAX. Apart from VAT how many of you pay tax? The Thai government right now has <deleted> all money. (Taksin and his guys have bled the country dry). Who is a great (read: easy) first target to help replenish the country's coffers?

This 'crackdown' affects me too, or likely will affect me in a few months. I really hate the situation as it is but I sympathize with the Thai governments point of view. The amount of money they lose in tax must be astronomical. The UK/US would never wear the current situation they have over here. Never. Most people I know over here pay little to no tax and they earn more in a month than many Thai's earn in a year.

Think about this topic more rationally...

At last someone talking sense, the current immigration skake up or down depending how you see it was passed through parlament in 1997 by our former PM Thaksin..I was led to believe..I guess all the people complaining are not tax payers, am I correct..Yes they make it so hard to be legal they(the Govt) forse people to infact break the law and cheat..As the tax dodgers anywhere in the world do because they (the Govt) are such bad managers.. I sympathise as you suffer because they get it wrong..

[drummer]

Total nonense drummer.

If you look at the 'black' employment market in Thailand for non-Thais you'll see they're losing billions of baht in lost tax revenue.

The border guys are not going to refuse entry to genuine tourists. If you have been in Thailand for years though (especially on VOA's) then things will get complicated once they start leafing through your passport. Their first thought (along with Thai IRS) is that if you're not retired where is your money coming from? And, if it's earned in Thailand 'where's our piece of the action?' Plus, if you stay in Thailand for the majority of the year - on paper at least - you're deemed a resident of the country meant to submit a tax return.

If you look at the tax laws of this country WAY more people should be paying tax that are right now. The only thing that saves people is that Thailand 's systems are inefficient, corrupt, and pretty close to useless. This will eventually change though.

Its nonsense only if you look at it just so.

It is true that there are a LOT of people not paying tax. And, more revenue would be collevted if you just got everyone to pay up (despite modern neoconservative economic thinking) However, the longstay tourists, even the illegally working ones are still a gain if you look at the big picture. i.e. the Thai IRS gets more revenue even though these guys aren't paying than if they were kicked out. The illegally working farang spend their money in Thailand, and the money stays 'in house' to get taxed and taxed again. Visa runs are the biggest non-Thai expenditure for most long farang.

Then add in that a lot of the long stay tourists (at the moment myself) import money from abroad, directly adding into the tax base. the money in my pocket right now came from my bank account in the States. Thats the fact for a LOT of people.

OlRedEyes

Thing is that the international media only reports about the farang-oriented prostitution etc. So that's what has to be targeted to try and put a lid on the bad press......

there enough bad press about women getting abducted and sold into prostitution.... these are generally girls for the Asian market, not the Thai market. I don't think trimming the farang sex trade alone would really make that big of a difference.