Enormous Shakeup Of Visa And Immigration Rules

[my benny rai]

Pringle,

But it’s getting worst not better. Today, I am told the non-immigrant O marriage visa is to be further restricted, linking it to a work-permit holders only.

Not true from my understanding. When applying for a Non Immigrant O Visa you do not have to hold a work permit if your wife is the person who is supporting you.

[backflip]

"I think that anyone who sits on thier high horse, and preaches to less fortunate expats that if they don't have enough dosh they should ship out, are nothing better than selfish, arrogant, unfeeling prigs of the worst possible kind, who are totally lacking in compassion for their fellow human beings, and if there was any justice in this world would be the first to be thrown of of this country."

That might describe some of the posters who have their respective lives in order, but certainly not all of us. As for a lack of compassion, how about this: "I'm so sorry for you." Did that help? What I don't understand from those that can't stay...when did "whining" become a viable option to finding a way to remain in the Kingdom? When did sitting on your sofa complaining solve anything? You can't fault those who remain for finding a solution that works. Nor can you fault us for your bad decisions, your lack of planning, and your lack of initiative. You'll respond, "Ok, so what am I to do?" All I can say is "I don't know - it's YOUR life."

[sadako]

Anybody know if the home countries are still issuing 1 year multi entry O / B / marriage visas ?

I hear no Asian countries now offer it ( such as the change to single entrys at Penang ) .

For example , UK , USA , Australia .............are they still issuing the 1 year multi entry visa in Thai consulates ? Or has this been changed to only single entries issued also ?

[number6]

"I think that anyone who sits on thier high horse, and preaches to less fortunate expats that if they don't have enough dosh they should ship out, are nothing better than selfish, arrogant, unfeeling prigs of the worst possible kind, who are totally lacking in compassion for their fellow human beings, and if there was any justice in this world would be the first to be thrown of of this country."

That might describe some of the posters who have their respective lives in order, but certainly not all of us. As for a lack of compassion, how about this: "I'm so sorry for you." Did that help? What I don't understand from those that can't stay...when did "whining" become a viable option to finding a way to remain in the Kingdom? When did sitting on your sofa complaining solve anything? You can't fault those who remain for finding a solution that works. Nor can you fault us for your bad decisions, your lack of planning, and your lack of initiative. You'll respond, "Ok, so what am I to do?" All I can say is "I don't know - it's YOUR life."

agree 100% if you come here or any other country which is not your own your nuts to think all will

always be ok Sorry cheap charles only here for beer etc your time is up i hope

and if they ship me out even though ive put in $ 500,000 here up to them ill be sad but thats life

[Sunbelt Asia]

The reality is the work permit application system is archaic, ridiculously paper intensive, time consuming and fraught with delays and administration problems: I have been through the process, twice, and have experienced it all first hand – I still have nightmares over the last application which required me to submit over 300 sheets of paper. Put bluntly, the work permit application system is insane. Despite the size of the company with its international reputation and known huge Thai inward investment, each application takes not less than three months from the time of application to the time immigration approves the papers. Each delay and one month’s extension requires an additional trip to the work office to apply for one month work permit extension, and the payment of 870 baht per extension. The cost to my company is huge, both in financial terms and in man hours lost.

The work permit if it’s done in Bangkok should only take 10-14 days max to obtain. Once you do obtain it, on page 5 of the work permit, you should find its good for one year while being valid for the length of your visa.

Immigration is the department that takes three months normally before they give final approval for the year. Each time Immigration gives you a 30 day under consideration stamp, then you or your rep are required to go to the Labor Dept and get the 30 day revalidation until you get the one year from Immigration.

So if this is what is experienced by a large multi-national, one with an experienced immigration/work permit specialist, what chance does an individual have in tackling the application process?

If your company has registered capital of 30 million Baht, then the whole process for the one year visa and work permit are done in three hours at the One Stop Center. You only need to deal with it once a year.

The solution to the illegal working is not in the visa system – the work permit system needs urgent reform. It needs to be aware of current international business and trade: Thailand has not woken up to the crucial factor of the Internet. It created a level playing field where people can work anywhere in the world. The current system makes no allowances for those who live here but work via the net … five close friends live here working internationally via VPN’s – virtual private networks. One is an architectural technician, another a computer graphics specialist (living here for many years and supporting a large extended Thai family): Two work in publishing, proofreading and typesetting. All would love to work here legally: They cannot because there is no provision under which they can be granted a work permit.

They can. They can form a company with a Thai ( or if they are in mfg, export, or hotel mgmt, they can own the business 100% with no Thai involvement) and obtain a work permit.

They can also get a work permit via working for a natural person who paid 50K in tax last year, or who employs 4 Thais. If they have a Thai wife, it's just 25,000 Baht tax or 2 Thai employees.

The work permit itself is not a problem to obtain, it's Immigration that takes the time and has tons pf paperwork.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[sadako]

"I think that anyone who sits on thier high horse, and preaches to less fortunate expats that if they don't have enough dosh they should ship out, are nothing better than selfish, arrogant, unfeeling prigs of the worst possible kind, who are totally lacking in compassion for their fellow human beings, and if there was any justice in this world would be the first to be thrown of of this country."

That might describe some of the posters who have their respective lives in order, but certainly not all of us. As for a lack of compassion, how about this: "I'm so sorry for you." Did that help? What I don't understand from those that can't stay...when did "whining" become a viable option to finding a way to remain in the Kingdom? When did sitting on your sofa complaining solve anything? You can't fault those who remain for finding a solution that works. Nor can you fault us for your bad decisions, your lack of planning, and your lack of initiative. You'll respond, "Ok, so what am I to do?" All I can say is "I don't know - it's YOUR life."

agree 100% if you come here or any other country which is not your own your nuts to think all will

always be ok Sorry cheap charles only here for beer etc your time is up i hope

and if they ship me out even though ive put in $ 500,000 here up to them ill be sad but thats life

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

[fruittbatt]

My heart goes out to all of you who have been caught up adversely in these visa changes, and I hope you all find your way forward, and the very best of luck.

Well said! Finally an acknowledgement that many people will slip through the cracks despite their best efforts and commitments here.

I have no sympathy for those who have chosen Thailand as a spot to drink or <deleted> themselves to death or who become a liability to the Thai police or their embassies. However, this is a small minority of farangs who have chosen to live in Thailand.

To the judgmental posters who have shown zilch compassion for those who have to leave, please consider the lack of a lead time by Thai Immigration for these changes:

For many 3 weeks notice is insufficient to get a work permit, or transfer funds, or sell foreign real estate or whatever.

Please also consider that this forum has been the only source of information for many farangs in the absence of any formal notification from Thai Immigration itself.

Thanks TV and George for filling the information gap left by Immigration. It has helped us all to make sense of events which affect our lives fundamentally.

[sanook1]

"I think that anyone who sits on thier high horse, and preaches to less fortunate expats that if they don't have enough dosh they should ship out, are nothing better than selfish, arrogant, unfeeling prigs of the worst possible kind, who are totally lacking in compassion for their fellow human beings, and if there was any justice in this world would be the first to be thrown of of this country."

That might describe some of the posters who have their respective lives in order, but certainly not all of us. As for a lack of compassion, how about this: "I'm so sorry for you." Did that help? What I don't understand from those that can't stay...when did "whining" become a viable option to finding a way to remain in the Kingdom? When did sitting on your sofa complaining solve anything? You can't fault those who remain for finding a solution that works. Nor can you fault us for your bad decisions, your lack of planning, and your lack of initiative. You'll respond, "Ok, so what am I to do?" All I can say is "I don't know - it's YOUR life."

agree 100% if you come here or any other country which is not your own your nuts to think all will

always be ok Sorry cheap charles only here for beer etc your time is up i hope

and if they ship me out even though ive put in $ 500,000 here up to them ill be sad but thats life

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

There is too much upheaval for all this to stand. Im sure the expat face of Thailand will change drastically for a while before some new loops and angles appear. I feel sorry for Jack golf

[sanook1]

Anybody interested in a cheap condo and a nice BMW, I don’t think they will fit in my suitcase java script:emoticon(':jap:', 'smid_12')

[ray23]

Just curious do your wifes, girlfriends, significant others, have a clue as to what could mean to thier lives?

I assure you mine doesn't. I'm not in trouble yet, but in four years I have seen three major changes in immigration law, looks to me like they are on a roll. I have reduced what I bring in each month by 30%. That is what I really need to live and qualify for my annual. the Savings are staying in my home country till, we see what happens to immigration and martial law. The risk factors are just high at the moment.

Would the current governement freeze all foriegners accounts probably not, but they certainly could.

[fishhooks]

It seems this topic has lost it's usefulness and degenerated into a slanging match and point scoring.

Can I for one, ask that we get back to genuine questions and "informed information" from those in the know, such as Sunbelt, just one example amongst those who have had a lot of experience with these type of happenings.

Not very much time has elapsed as yet since the introduction of this 'tightening' of the rules, but soon there should be many practical examples of the true picture which should make interesting and valuable reading.

By the way, before anyone has a go at me for being around here for a long time and not posting, there is a very good reason which is my own valid and personal business and nothing to do with the subject matter I've posted.

[PREM-R]

I will qualify for a "retirement" visa next year and I was just wondering if anyone had any insight into how the 800,000 baht per year figure was arrived at. The figure would appear to be quite high, what level of seniority would a Thai police officer, government official or military officer have to reach in order to receive a salary of 65,000 - 70,000 per month (not including tea money)? I am also surprised that there seems to be no consideration taken as to the location and circumstances of the retiree, clearly if someone opts to live "by the sea" or in Bangkok then their expenses would be considerably higher than a person living in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani or Mahasarakham in a house that they had paid for to be built and so would not have to make provision for rent each month. I also notice the disparity between the amount required to gain a visa "by reason of marriage to a Thai national" (400,000 baht per year) and the retirement visa cost. How can it be assumed that a retired person, possibly living alone, would need twice the income of a person who is maintining a wife/family, it just seems strange to me.

[lopburi3]

The retirement extension of stay is not based on living expense but is an amount the government sets for those who want to live here with no valid reason for doing so. I believe most countries will have this high or higher requirements - if it is possible at all.

[Tod Daniels]

In answer a question posed by someone on this endless thread.

The overseas Thai Embassys at least in the United States are still issuing Non-Immigrant Type O visas w/pretty much 'rubber stamp' regularity.

I just returned from the US and a visit to an Honorary Royal Thai Consualte w/my third Non-Imm Type O multi-entry visa. A visa run every 90 days is okay by me.

I am not able to meet the requirements here in Asia for a Non-Imm visa; being too young for a retirement visa, not being married to or supporting a thai national, and not working. In the US the 'bar' is a LOT lower. I had it stamped into my passport w/an application form, a photo and $125 dollars. The Honorary Consualtes of which there are 13 in varoius states are known for a 'softer touch' in issuing the visas.

When I spoke to the staff at the Consualte (post coup), they said they'd received no information concerning more stringent guidelines in the issuing of visas. Pretty much it is up to each Consulate to determine what if any requirements you need to meet.

Several Consulates are also stamping the visas into passports FedEx'd to them, although like in Hull England the postmark must originate in the country of the Consulate.

take care,

tod daniels

Krung Thep

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm not of Jewish background, and I've never been a gypsy, but I'll be in trouble when they come for the homosexuals or the pacifists. Can I get an exemption since I have six children, and I'm a military veteran?

Seriously, this is a bad period of uncertainty, massive changes, conflicting information, and nervous nellies. Thankfully, folks like Sunbelt Asia, and others, have been very helpful. I'm still okay (now that I'm finally legal) but I have no illusions that the future is certain. The more things change, the more they change.

[Thaiquila]

The retirement extension of stay is not based on living expense but is an amount the government sets for those who want to live here with no valid reason for doing so. I believe most countries will have this high or higher requirements - if it is possible at all.

This is very true, some countries are higher, and some countries are lower, and many countries don't allow a retirement visa at all. Some examples of countries with much lower pension requirements: Panama, Ecuador, Peru, and Argentina. Mexico halfs the requirement if you buy a home.

My personal opinion is that the Thailand's level is higher than it has to be, but of course, they can set it at any level they want.

Edited October 6, 2006 by Thaiquila

[johnnyk]

I will qualify for a "retirement" visa next year and I was just wondering if anyone had any insight into how the 800,000 baht per year figure was arrived at. The figure would appear to be quite high, what level of seniority would a Thai police officer, government official or military officer have to reach in order to receive a salary of 65,000 - 70,000 per month (not including tea money)? I am also surprised that there seems to be no consideration taken as to the location and circumstances of the retiree, clearly if someone opts to live "by the sea" or in Bangkok then their expenses would be considerably higher than a person living in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani or Mahasarakham in a house that they had paid for to be built and so would not have to make provision for rent each month. I also notice the disparity between the amount required to gain a visa "by reason of marriage to a Thai national" (400,000 baht per year) and the retirement visa cost. How can it be assumed that a retired person, possibly living alone, would need twice the income of a person who is maintining a wife/family, it just seems strange to me.

Many countries want to see something in the bank so you don't become a burden should anything go bad for you. Countries can set the amount they deem appropriate and for Thailand they want to see 800K in the bank (or 400K if you have a Thai wife).

This is about US$20K which seems to me about what would be necessary for a reasonable standard of living and/or enough to pay for serious medical expense and airfare home if need be. Marriage to a Thai may seem in their eyes a reasonable form of commitment to the country.

Anybody who can't scare up US$20K to keep in the bank is obviously not the type they want and where is the problem with that? Who wants people using their country as a flophouse? I don't want it in my country and I doubt many others would want it either.

Some people think its their right to live in someone else's country no matter their circumstances. Well its not, its a privilege.

[vagabond48]

The Honorary Consualtes of which there are 13 in varoius states are known for a 'softer touch' in issuing the visas.

\

Could you point me to where these 13 honorary consulates are located?

I googled but was unable to find any but the 4 in NY, DC, Chicago and LA.

Edited October 6, 2006 by vagabond48

[soihok]

I will qualify for a "retirement" visa next year and I was just wondering if anyone had any insight into how the 800,000 baht per year figure was arrived at. The figure would appear to be quite high, what level of seniority would a Thai police officer, government official or military officer have to reach in order to receive a salary of 65,000 - 70,000 per month (not including tea money)? I am also surprised that there seems to be no consideration taken as to the location and circumstances of the retiree, clearly if someone opts to live "by the sea" or in Bangkok then their expenses would be considerably higher than a person living in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani or Mahasarakham in a house that they had paid for to be built and so would not have to make provision for rent each month. I also notice the disparity between the amount required to gain a visa "by reason of marriage to a Thai national" (400,000 baht per year) and the retirement visa cost. How can it be assumed that a retired person, possibly living alone, would need twice the income of a person who is maintining a wife/family, it just seems strange to me.

Many countries want to see something in the bank so you don't become a burden should anything go bad for you. Countries can set the amount they deem appropriate and for Thailand they want to see 800K in the bank (or 400K if you have a Thai wife).

This is about US$20K which seems to me about what would be necessary for a reasonable standard of living and/or enough to pay for serious medical expense and airfare home if need be. Marriage to a Thai may seem in their eyes a reasonable form of commitment to the country.

Anybody who can't scare up US$20K to keep in the bank is obviously not the type they want and where is the problem with that? Who wants people using their country as a flophouse? I don't want it in my country and I doubt many others would want it either.

Some people think its their right to live in someone else's country no matter their circumstances. Well its not, its a privilege.

[lopburi3]

List of Royal Thai Consulates in the USA.

http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

Royal Thai Consulates-General, (Honorary Consuls-General)

ALABAMA

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

P.O. BOX 4504

MONTGOMERY, AL 36103-4504

Tel : (334) 269-2518

Fax : (334) 269-4678

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Robert F. Henry, Jr.

COLORADO

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

1123 AURARIA PKWY, SUITE 200

DENVER, CO 80204

Tel : (303) 892-0118

Fax : (303) 892-0119

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Donald W. Ringby

FLORIDA

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

2199 PONCE DE LEON BLVD., SUITE 301

CORAL GABLES, FL 33134

Tel : (305) 445-7577

Fax : (305) 444-0487

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. George Corrigan

Honorary Consul, Mr. Louis Stinson, Jr.

GEORGIA

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

303 PEACHTREE STREET, SUITE 5300

ATLANTA, GA 30308

Tel : (404) 527-6778

Fax : (404) 527-4198

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. R. William Ide, III

HAWAII

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

1287 KALANI STREET, SUITE 103

HONOLULU, HI 96817

Tel : (808) 845-7332

Fax : (808) 848-0022

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Colin Miyabara

LOUISIANA

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

335 JULIA STREET, SUITE A

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Tel : (504) 522-2021

Fax : (504) 523-1704

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Henry Lambert

MASSACHUSETTS

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

41 UNION STREET,

BOSTON, MA 02108

Tel : (617) 720-8424

Fax : (617) 227-2306

E-mail : [email protected], [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Joseph Milano

MISSOURI

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

3906 W. 103rd Street

Overland Park, KS 66207

Tel : (913) 385-5555

Fax : (913) 385-5558

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul, Ms. Mary Frances Taylor-Kirkpatrick

OKLAHOMA

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

25900 East 81th Street

Broken Arrow, OK 74014

Tel : (918) 357-2886

Fax : (918) 357-1334

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul, Mrs. Nora J. Gordon

OREGON

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

121 S.W. SALMON STREET, SUITE 1430

PORTLAND, OR 97204-2924

Tel : (503) 221-0440

Fax : (503) 221-0550

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul, Mr. Nicholas J. Stanley

TEXAS (Dallas)

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

3232 MCKINNEY AVENUE, SUITE 1400

DALLAS, TX 75204-2429

Tel : (214) 740-1498

Fax : (214) 740-1499

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. W. Forrest Smith

TEXAS (El-Paso)

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

Tel : -

Fax : -

E-mail :

Honorary Consul-General,

TEXAS (Houston)

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

600 Travis, Ste. 2800

HOUSTON, TX 77002-3940

Tel : (713) 229-0636

Fax : (713) 228-1303

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Charles C. Foster

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

CALLE EL RECODO NO. 7

ENSANCHE BELLA VISTA

SANTO DOMINGO, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC

Tel : (809) 620-9585

Fax : (809) 533-7735, (809) 532-4179

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul, Mr. Gustavo E. Turull

JAMAICA

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

2 VALENTINE DRIVE

KINGSTON 19

JAMAICA, W-I

Tel : (876) 931-9869

Fax : (876) 924-0463

E-mail : [email protected]

Honorary Consul, Mrs. Thalia Geraldine Lyn

PUERTO RICO

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE-GENERAL

COND. AVILA, SUITE 11-F, COSTA RICA ST.

URB. PINERO, HATOREY, PR 00917

Tel : (787) 751-0151

Fax : (787) 753-7276

E-mail : [email protected]

Mailing address :

P.O. Box 7386

SAN JUAN, PR 00916-7386

Honorary Consul-General, Mr. Rolando J. Piernes

[soihok]

Johnnky......well said and so true.

Cheers

[wpcoe]

Could you point me to where these 13 honorary consulates are located?

I googled but was unable to find any but the 4 in NY, DC, Chicago and LA.

Right now, their site seems to be down, but this is the bookmark I have for all the consulates in USA: http://www.thaiembdc.org/directry/direc_e.htm

[VBF]

I will qualify for a "retirement" visa next year and I was just wondering if anyone had any insight into how the 800,000 baht per year figure was arrived at. The figure would appear to be quite high, what level of seniority would a Thai police officer, government official or military officer have to reach in order to receive a salary of 65,000 - 70,000 per month (not including tea money)? I am also surprised that there seems to be no consideration taken as to the location and circumstances of the retiree, clearly if someone opts to live "by the sea" or in Bangkok then their expenses would be considerably higher than a person living in Khon Kaen, Udon Thani or Mahasarakham in a house that they had paid for to be built and so would not have to make provision for rent each month. I also notice the disparity between the amount required to gain a visa "by reason of marriage to a Thai national" (400,000 baht per year) and the retirement visa cost. How can it be assumed that a retired person, possibly living alone, would need twice the income of a person who is maintining a wife/family, it just seems strange to me.

Many countries want to see something in the bank so you don't become a burden should anything go bad for you. Countries can set the amount they deem appropriate and for Thailand they want to see 800K in the bank (or 400K if you have a Thai wife).

This is about US$20K which seems to me about what would be necessary for a reasonable standard of living and/or enough to pay for serious medical expense and airfare home if need be. Marriage to a Thai may seem in their eyes a reasonable form of commitment to the country.

Anybody who can't scare up US$20K to keep in the bank is obviously not the type they want and where is the problem with that? Who wants people using their country as a flophouse? I don't want it in my country and I doubt many others would want it either.

Some people think its their right to live in someone else's country no matter their circumstances. Well its not, its a privilege.

This and recent postings by Baboon, Pringle & Modi D'Ark seem to me to be the most intelligent and compassionate responses to the various issues of late.

I am in a very odd situation - basically "sitting on the fence". I'm here in the UK having had my house on the market since April and am waiting for the offers to match my asking price. Meanwhile I'm working and earning money for the retirement pot and the privilege of spending it in Thailand.

I'm single, over 50 and, by TODAY'S rules, can easily qualify for a retirement visa.

I have already decided to rent somewhere to live in Thailand rather than buy - on my last trip in April, I came to that conclusion based on the fact that I THOUGHT that the "30 year renewable" leases and company house purchase schemes were both vulnerable. With regard to the former I still think the same and I gain NO satisfaction in being proven right about the latter.

In the course of 7 months, the "established" means for Farang to live in Thailand have been rocked to their foundations. Now I realise that SOME of the visa rule changes are actually just enforcements of existing rules and not really changes at all. The uncaring would simply say (as many have) "Som nam na" to those who have been bending the rules - personally I have friends in that situation and I am truly sorry for them.

OK there is a "chancer" element amongst the Farang in Thailand. I don't beleive they are all bad people just as I don't beleive they are all good.

So what's my point? Well, I have been planning my retirement in Thailand for the last 5 years - I first thought about it 10 years ago! Now what do I do? Sell up and say "retire and be dammed" and HOPE THAT THERE ARE NO MORE CHANGES TO COME or give up the dream that has been just out of reach for so long? This is clearly a rhetorical question - as someone said on here "it's my life" so I shall make the decision, but it gives me a feeling of severe unease, when retirement is surely meant to be a relaxing time to which one looks forward.

As for those already in Thailand with nowhere else to go, who were doing things as they thought they should and hitherto felt secure - you have my sympathy and good wishes for your futures.

Finally my thanks also to TV, George and Sunbelt for keeping us up to speed.

Mike

Edited October 6, 2006 by VBF

[taxin]

"I think that anyone who sits on thier high horse, and preaches to less fortunate expats that if they don't have enough dosh they should ship out, are nothing better than selfish, arrogant, unfeeling prigs of the worst possible kind, who are totally lacking in compassion for their fellow human beings, and if there was any justice in this world would be the first to be thrown of of this country."

That might describe some of the posters who have their respective lives in order, but certainly not all of us. As for a lack of compassion, how about this: "I'm so sorry for you." Did that help? What I don't understand from those that can't stay...when did "whining" become a viable option to finding a way to remain in the Kingdom? When did sitting on your sofa complaining solve anything? You can't fault those who remain for finding a solution that works. Nor can you fault us for your bad decisions, your lack of planning, and your lack of initiative. You'll respond, "Ok, so what am I to do?" All I can say is "I don't know - it's YOUR life."

agree 100% if you come here or any other country which is not your own your nuts to think all will

always be ok Sorry cheap charles only here for beer etc your time is up i hope

and if they ship me out even though ive put in $ 500,000 here up to them ill be sad but thats life

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

If you are complaining about the expense in going back to the UK once a year then yes, you are a cheap charlie ! As you say you have the money so whats the problem ??

Why not go home, see your old friends, see your family, go to the pub and let it remind you how lucky you are to live in Thailand, that great place where you are paying 40 pence a beer instead of 3 quid !!

[sadako]

"I think that anyone who sits on thier high horse, and preaches to less fortunate expats that if they don't have enough dosh they should ship out, are nothing better than selfish, arrogant, unfeeling prigs of the worst possible kind, who are totally lacking in compassion for their fellow human beings, and if there was any justice in this world would be the first to be thrown of of this country."

That might describe some of the posters who have their respective lives in order, but certainly not all of us. As for a lack of compassion, how about this: "I'm so sorry for you." Did that help? What I don't understand from those that can't stay...when did "whining" become a viable option to finding a way to remain in the Kingdom? When did sitting on your sofa complaining solve anything? You can't fault those who remain for finding a solution that works. Nor can you fault us for your bad decisions, your lack of planning, and your lack of initiative. You'll respond, "Ok, so what am I to do?" All I can say is "I don't know - it's YOUR life."

agree 100% if you come here or any other country which is not your own your nuts to think all will

always be ok Sorry cheap charles only here for beer etc your time is up i hope

and if they ship me out even though ive put in $ 500,000 here up to them ill be sad but thats life

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

If you are complaining about the expense in going back to the UK once a year then yes, you are a cheap charlie ! As you say you have the money so whats the problem ??

Why not go home, see your old friends, see your family, go to the pub and let it remind you how lucky you are to live in Thailand, that great place where you are paying 40 pence a beer instead of 3 quid !!

Errrrr , then if I have the money I am not complaing ..right ? Gonk .

Fact is I shouldnt have to be forced to leave to go to the UK to get a visa every year . I should be able to choose when I go to visit my friends or family and drink in the pub as you say . Especially as I have a lovely wife , investments , income , fair enough if they are trying to get rid of the deadbeat degenerates , thats not a problem with me , but some people fit all the criteria and more and still have to struggle like they are unwelcome .

In fact the real point Im trying to make is that why should I go back when Thai immigration are obviously aware that I will be returning again instantly as I have my life here . Makes no sense whatsoever .

And 40 pence a beer from a shop here is pretty equivalent to what i would pay for a tinnie in the UK offy anyway . Saying that , 80 baht in a bar for a small heineken is not exactly cheap , if I may be so bold . 1.10 GBP for a small bottle , errrr lets work that out .......get a pint twice the size 3 pound .....not much difference pal .

Still off topic .......

Amazing how some people are way above it all

All the best

Sadako

[kojak]

OK, HERE IS MY TWO PENNYS WORTH.

What ever reason that they are making the changes to the visa rules.

I don’t see how its going to prevent undesirables from staying here.

They, have the means and have people in the know to get around the visa problem.

Just look at gun amnesty. It’s only decent law abiding people that hand in their weapons,

the criminals keep hold of their tools of the trade.

Why don’t they give us some sort of tests to see if why really want to be part of this country and society, I don’t know? maybe sing the national anthem, Thai language test,

questions on Thai history, name the ingredients to tom yum gong?

You get the idea.

For many people including myself who have chosen to live here, its because its a cheaper lifestyle than our home country’s.

What’s wrong with that? I don’t much care for the ex-pat scene, I live with Thai’s,

that’s why I’m here.

It would not bother me if a never saw another farang till the day they nail the lid on.

I love this country, I don’t want to go back to Blighty, or move on to Cam, Nam, or Loas.

I try to fit in here, I contribute when I can, I don’t take anything from the system, I expect to pay for everything that I need and use here. So my crime is what? . . . . I’m not rich!

A lot of farang high almightys have said ‘good, get rid of the poor farang’

As you all know, no matter how poor we see ourselves, Thai’s never believe us.

They think our ATM cards are limitless.

What I want to know is what gives some of the ex-pats in this forum to judge others

are you really saying, “I’m loaded, so I’m alright jack, poor farangs go home”.

Like somebody else has already said, people like you in the country of my birth is another

reason I moved away.

Who loves ya baby?

[number6]

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

Why have u a problem if your properly married you still only need 400k or income or both for a proper support thai visa if your not properly married (ie only tribal) and under 50 then you have a problem - one you could have solved by old investment visa (3mill baht)

So please tell us why you dont meet requirements

[sadako]

Whats all this cheap charlie s**te ? Its not only " cheap charlies " that are affected by this . I have invested 5 million baht here , house and condo freehold , Im married to a Thai , I have over 400 K in a Thai bank , and in a UK bank for that matter . I also have money coming in to another UK bank which is being withdrawn in Thailand every month . My wife earns over 20 K a month here also . But still it seems I may have to return to the UK every year for a new visa because I dont meet the new requirements even for a marriage visa . Am I a cheap charlie too ? And whats wrong with drinking beer ??? !!!!!!!

Why have u a problem if your properly married you still only need 400k or income or both for a proper support thai visa if your not properly married (ie only tribal) and under 50 then you have a problem - one you could have solved by old investment visa (3mill baht)

So please tell us why you dont meet requirements

Errrrr read the posts , thai immigration require 40,000 baht income per month . I dont make that here . I have the 400,000 yes . But that is abolished . I have 20 - 30 K baht a month from UK maybe , what Im saying is I may not qualify cos I dont work here . And many others wont . Many decent people who have wives here wont . Thats the sad part .

Still , always look on the bright side eh ?

[Mobi]

My heart goes out to all of you who have been caught up adversely in these visa changes, and I hope you all find your way forward, and the very best of luck.

Well said! Finally an acknowledgement that many people will slip through the cracks despite their best efforts and commitments here.

I have no sympathy for those who have chosen Thailand as a spot to drink or <deleted> themselves to death or who become a liability to the Thai police or their embassies. However, this is a small minority of farangs who have chosen to live in Thailand.

To the judgmental posters who have shown zilch compassion for those who have to leave, please consider the lack of a lead time by Thai Immigration for these changes:

For many 3 weeks notice is insufficient to get a work permit, or transfer funds, or sell foreign real estate or whatever.

Please also consider that this forum has been the only source of information for many farangs in the absence of any formal notification from Thai Immigration itself.

Thanks TV and George for filling the information gap left by Immigration. It has helped us all to make sense of events which affect our lives fundamentally.

At the risk of being accused of starting a mutual admiration society I would wholeheratedly endorse what you say.

Not all of us have limitless funds, and there are a great many who have to come to stay and/or live in Thailand based on the visa riules as they understood them; with the utmost of good faith towards their hosts and with every intention of complying with the law, being good citizens and contributiong in some way to Thai society.

Things were very different back in the 70's, and it was certainly much harder to stay here indefinitely without a bona fide job or possesing a large amount of money with which to purchase permanent residence or even Thai citizenship. Through the years, the situation has changed considerably, and it has been possible for thousands of farangs to carve out a life for themselves in this country with the total complicity a of officialdom who knew exactly what was afoot. I have to say however, that even more than 30 years ago, expat teachers were welcomed with open arms, without the need for work permits, and the recent clamp down on this and other visa guidelines is a stab in the heart to thousands of well meaning folk, who, in their own way, have done their best to plan their lives, notwithstanding the harsh condemnatory posts by the "holier tha thou/ I have so much money I can live here/it's all your fault for not planning your life " brigade who seem to wallow in other people's misfortunes.

[teacher]

I think we may be goin off some points and one of them being the 40,000 salaries now required is so they can check to ensure the tax is being paid. This is only one point we are missing.

Yes there are some very unfortunate people that these changes will affect. However, there are the others who we have not talked about, and they are all the Farangs who own bars, businesses etc (that there wifes or ladies run for them) who just do NOT pay there taxes. I would say that runs into 10s of millions of bt each month.

They dont run the bars themselves because they would require a work permit and a "B" type visa; thus exposing themselves to tax payments. This is who they are after and why not. In most other countries, workers are subject to tax.