If a Single entry Tourist Visa becomes the new normal - How sustainable is it?

[jacksam]

An officer in the Thai Embassy, Vientiane just a few days ago told a friend of mine that the new multiple TR will be available from there from Nov 13th.

Also a visa run operator in Bkk has said the new multiple will be available on his trip to Vientiane.

When you say "the new multiple TR", I guess you are referring what others are calling the new 6-month METV? Which has to be applied for in one's home country?

If so, how many posters here on HA have Laos as their home country?

Don't assume that METV will only be available in your home country. Let wait and time will tell. Personally I will be shocked if the new visa is only available in own country. How does that work for say a UK citizen currently in USA wishing to spend 6 months in south east Asia . crazy

[oncearugge]

No Australia does not allow long term tourists. I think Thailand has some of the most welcoming rules for people wanting to come to los. Personally it does not affect me as living here on extensions of stay

based on retirement. I guess if the view is that people staying in los for much longer than the definition of a tourist. As I understand it presently there is no limit to tv. Perhaps immigration law was lame from conception. If Thailand wants stricter visa laws laws fine. With regards places like Australia I have had to do 3 extensive applications for 4 visits for my thai gf.

Exactly !

It always pays to reflect on what ones own country allows before suggesting "improvements" should be made in others.

The Thais have a robust tourist industry.

Tightening the rules relating to "long term tourists" will remove many irritants including illegal working and over-stayers which only prove to be of benefit.

Edited October 26, 2015 by oncearugge

[HikeFromLA]

For those who plan and can afford to spend more time a METV obtainable in their own country would be appropriate.

What "difficulties" do you envisage if the METV is only issued in a persons own country ?

Let me list the difficulties for you:

-- Flying to the other side of the world is as unpleasant and as expensive as a plane flight can get. Right?

-- Visiting the old Soviet Union on Aeroflot, and dealing with surly Russian border guards, was less annoying than dealing with the TSA at LAX. Not that you recall, but I do.

-- Rather than taking in the sights and sounds of an interesting city in neighboring SEA city, I will be bored to tears in the grim Truman Show that is California.

-- I would be staying on a friend's couch or shelling out over 100 usd per night

-- I would be trying to get around in a sprawling city that is without public transport

[oncearugge]

For those who plan and can afford to spend more time a METV obtainable in their own country would be appropriate.

What "difficulties" do you envisage if the METV is only issued in a persons own country ?

Let me list the difficulties for you:

-- Flying to the other side of the world is as unpleasant and as expensive as a plane flight can get. Right?

-- Visiting the old Soviet Union on Aeroflot, and dealing with surly Russian border guards, was less annoying than dealing with the TSA at LAX. Not that you recall, but I do.

-- Rather than taking in the sights and sounds of an interesting city in neighboring SEA city, I will be bored to tears in the grim Truman Show that is California.

-- I would be staying on a friend's couch or shelling out over 100 usd per night

-- I would be trying to get around in a sprawling city that is without public transport

As a European I want easy access to the States .

I want a long term tourist visa which can be easily extended in country.

I do not wish to be interviewed at a US Embassy before my visa is issued.

How and where can I get this visa?

[HikeFromLA]

Does your country of origin allow "long term" tourists ?

Irrelevant.

I do not seek to govern Thailand or to advise its leaders.

I seek only to live my own life as best I can.

If visas were easier in Monaco, Cayman Islands, Bahamas, or Singapore, perhaps I would choose to reside in one of those places.

But they aren't, so I don't.

[HikeFromLA]

For those who plan and can afford to spend more time a METV obtainable in their own country would be appropriate.

What "difficulties" do you envisage if the METV is only issued in a persons own country ?

Let me list the difficulties for you:

-- Flying to the other side of the world is as unpleasant and as expensive as a plane flight can get. Right?

-- Visiting the old Soviet Union on Aeroflot, and dealing with surly Russian border guards, was less annoying than dealing with the TSA at LAX. Not that you recall, but I do.

-- Rather than taking in the sights and sounds of an interesting city in neighboring SEA city, I will be bored to tears in the grim Truman Show that is California.

-- I would be staying on a friend's couch or shelling out over 100 usd per night

-- I would be trying to get around in a sprawling city that is without public transport

As a European I want easy access to the States .

I want a long term tourist visa which can be easily extended in country.

I do not wish to be interviewed at a US Embassy before my visa is issued.

How and where can I get this visa?

I agree. The US is a sucky place to visit. You should not bother, except a once in the life tour of Grand Canyon whatever, or if you are a Mexican who needs to make a shopping run. For a location-independent person, it would be a bizarre choice to visit the US otherwise.

If someone lets me know I am not welcome, I try to move on. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

[MobileContent]

An officer in the Thai Embassy, Vientiane just a few days ago told a friend of mine that the new multiple TR will be available from there from Nov 13th.

Also a visa run operator in Bkk has said the new multiple will be available on his trip to Vientiane.

When you say "the new multiple TR", I guess you are referring what others are calling the new 6-month METV? Which has to be applied for in one's home country?

If so, how many posters here on HA have Laos as their home country?

Don't assume that METV will only be available in your home country. Let wait and time will tell. Personally I will be shocked if the new visa is only available in own country. How does that work for say a UK citizen currently in USA wishing to spend 6 months in south east Asia . crazy

If a UK citizen is working in the US he is permitted to apply the METV in the US. The same is for European countries but none citizen have to show the document that they are permitted to stay in the country and they will be issued with the visa as long they have a permission of stay in those countries they are working.

An example would be for Australia, if a Singaporean who is studying/working in Australia and can proof they are permitted to stay in Australia will surely get the visa.

[JackThompson]

... What "difficulties" do you envisage if the METV is only issued in a persons own country ?

Point taken. At present I think something not to shy of 2 million Chinese tourists come to los every year. Many on two week tour as per Russia. The new rules impact this zero. They like most can come on visa exempt. The problems I'm referring to is problems for the people living here on tourist visas. This is within immigration rules. If they are forced to look elsewhere like Cambodia or Vietnam then so be it. Won't break tourism back. Tourism can be fickle. ... . I think all forms of tourism needs to be encouraged. That includes folk living here legally on tv and not working. They could could up with better rules to allow "long term tourists" stay in los and at same time making work difficult.

Does your country of origin allow "long term" tourists ? ... It always pays to reflect on what ones own country allows before suggesting "improvements" should be made in others.

... Tightening the rules relating to "long term tourists" will remove many irritants including illegal working and over-stayers which only prove to be of benefit.

My country (USA) is much more lenient than Thailand vis-a-vis illegal workers; they allow long-term illegal immigrants to live and work in perpetuity, with zero consequences to the traitor who hires them or the person who broke immigration law. One only needs to enter Mexico, then walk across the border, buy some cheap fake documents (which will not be cross-checked), and apply for a job. One could leave the same way, and pay a fine for overstay in Mexico (easier than dealing with US on exit).

From what I have seen, law-breaking types will use corrupt means to obtain the documents they require, or continue to overstay and carry bribe-money. These changes, depending on how they are implimented, could primary harm long term, self-supported, under 50s who obey the laws and regulations of Thailand. Most will not hand over 500,000 baht for a 5-year visa (especially if close to 50, already). Their condos would remain empty, and many businesses they frequent could close their doors, no matter how many Chinese tourists come in on pre-paid tours.

As to the lawbreakers, it would be easy enough to set up a reward-tipline, and catch people here working illegally red-handed. I'd support this 100%. I can certainly understand if Thailand wishes to require a financial minimum for entry - or require we have health-insurance and/or a medical-savings account (their health services are world-class and a good value, so should not be a hard-sell).

[ubonjoe]

It seems that the multiple entry tourist visa is going to replace 2 and 3 entry visas. But I don't think all locations are going to require the applicants to be residents of the country where they are applying.

This from the embassy website in Washington DC. http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/tourist-visas/category-tr/

"*** the multiple-entry tourist visa (METV) will eventually replace the tourist visas previously issued for two and three entries which will be no longer available by 13 November 2015***"

This notice from the Canberra embassy says the same thing about 2/3 entry visas. It also says that it will be available to nationals from all countries. http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/doc/announcement/211015METV.pdf

It appears most of the locations that are stating it will only be available for residents already had that rule in place before the METV.

[JackThompson]

Let me list the difficulties for you:

-- Flying to the other side of the world is as unpleasant and as expensive as a plane flight can get. Right?

-- Visiting the old Soviet Union on Aeroflot, and dealing with surly Russian border guards, was less annoying than dealing with the TSA at LAX. Not that you recall, but I do.

-- Rather than taking in the sights and sounds of an interesting city in neighboring SEA city, I will be bored to tears in the grim Truman Show that is California.

-- I would be staying on a friend's couch or shelling out over 100 usd per night

-- I would be trying to get around in a sprawling city that is without public transport

I also recall being taught the "horrors" of the old USSR in public-school, only to get older and watch nearly every item on that list implimented in the USA, but without the socialist benefits (healthcare, housing, food, etc), which the Russians recieved in exchange for living in tyranny. I later came to find out, speaking with Russians who lived through it, that much of that list was US-propaganda.

The one thing we have, that they didn't, is the ability to leave at will - though a "Berlin Wall" of sorts exists in the heads of most Americans, which appears to be quite effective on the weak-minded. If I did not own my own business, I would use my credentials to work in Malaysia, Tokyo, or Bangkok. There is no reason that I can fathom, to live in the States, anymore.

Being in the same boat as you, I plan to use Hawaii, if forced to return to the "Land of the pre-flight Hernia Exam" (without the benefit of a diagnosis), performed by a High-School graduate, who, for some reason, "desired" that particular job. They could at least put the "agents" in a fish-bowl, and let us pick one. The flight to Hawaii is shorter and less expensive. Hopefully, the consulate there will offer this.

[HikeFromLA]

Let me list the difficulties for you:

-- Flying to the other side of the world is as unpleasant and as expensive as a plane flight can get. Right?

-- Visiting the old Soviet Union on Aeroflot, and dealing with surly Russian border guards, was less annoying than dealing with the TSA at LAX. Not that you recall, but I do.

-- Rather than taking in the sights and sounds of an interesting city in neighboring SEA city, I will be bored to tears in the grim Truman Show that is California.

-- I would be staying on a friend's couch or shelling out over 100 usd per night

-- I would be trying to get around in a sprawling city that is without public transport

I also recall being taught the "horrors" of the old USSR in public-school, only to get older and watch nearly every item on that list implimented in the USA, but without the socialist benefits (healthcare, housing, food, etc), which the Russians recieved in exchange for living in tyranny. I later came to find out, speaking with Russians who lived through it, that much of that list was US-propaganda.

The one thing we have, that they didn't, is the ability to leave at will - though a "Berlin Wall" of sorts exists in the heads of most Americans, which appears to be quite effective on the weak-minded. If I did not own my own business, I would use my credentials to work in Malaysia, Tokyo, or Bangkok. There is no reason that I can fathom, to live in the States, anymore.

Being in the same boat as you, I plan to use Hawaii, if forced to return to the "Land of the pre-flight Hernia Exam" (without the benefit of a diagnosis), performed by a High-School graduate, who, for some reason, "desired" that particular job. They could at least put the "agents" in a fish-bowl, and let us pick one. The flight to Hawaii is shorter and less expensive. Hopefully, the consulate there will offer this.

Eloquent.

Like you I looked at Asia from KL to Tokyo. Chiang Mai is my first stop for rehab and boot camp. Later we will see.

Re HI, yes a great idea to avoid the continental US BS.

I wonder about Saipan. I wonder if there are any consulates there.

[JackThompson]

...

I also recall being taught the "horrors" of the old USSR in public-school, only to get older and watch nearly every item on that list implimented in the USA, but without the socialist benefits (healthcare, housing, food, etc), which the Russians recieved in exchange for living in tyranny. I later came to find out, speaking with Russians who lived through it, that much of that list was US-propaganda.

The one thing we have, that they didn't, is the ability to leave at will - though a "Berlin Wall" of sorts exists in the heads of most Americans, which appears to be quite effective on the weak-minded. If I did not own my own business, I would use my credentials to work in Malaysia, Tokyo, or Bangkok. There is no reason that I can fathom, to live in the States, anymore.

Being in the same boat as you, I plan to use Hawaii, if forced to return to the "Land of the pre-flight Hernia Exam" (without the benefit of a diagnosis), performed by a High-School graduate, who, for some reason, "desired" that particular job. They could at least put the "agents" in a fish-bowl, and let us pick one. The flight to Hawaii is shorter and less expensive. Hopefully, the consulate there will offer this.

Eloquent.

Like you I looked at Asia from KL to Tokyo. Chiang Mai is my first stop for rehab and boot camp. Later we will see. Re HI, yes a great idea to avoid the continental US BS. I wonder about Saipan. I wonder if there are any consulates there.

There are not Thai-consulates / embassies from anywhere else this side of the West Coast, looking at this:

http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/fco/7624.htm

At least there is something to see in Hawaii. The Consulate in Puerto Rico isn't much help unless traveling from Central or South America - though would still be more a interesting place to visit than the mainland.

I spent a couple weeks in KL and loved the food (2nd only to Thailand, in my travels). That would probably be my choice, if looking for work. The pay is purpotedly better than Thailand, and I and the gf (Thai) could come back home, frequently.

[jacksam]

All the posters suggesting that the new METV will only be available in ones home country are jumping the gun. My guess is they will be available at many consulate

[oncearugge]

All the posters suggesting that the new METV will only be available in ones home country are jumping the gun. My guess is they will be available at many consulate

Time will prove you to be right .......................or Wrong !

[jacksam]

So true ONCE. How about a side bet. This visa one would imagine is not for the 2 million Chinese 2 week tourists. Where are they going with this, meaning immigration. They already provide visa exempt. My guess and yes no sound reason .......is to do away with double and triple entry tv with the METV that will be perhaps issued from all the previous consulates doing double and triple tv. Just logic and if the option option is enforced its just another stupid move by thai immigration

[oncearugge]

So true ONCE. How about a side bet. This visa one would imagine is not for the 2 million Chinese 2 week tourists. Where are they going with this, meaning immigration. They already provide visa exempt. My guess and yes no sound reason .......is to do away with double and triple entry tv with the METV that will be perhaps issued from all the previous consulates doing double and triple tv. Just logic and if the option option is enforced its just another stupid move by thai immigration

Can you justify the use of the word "stupid"

Millions of people visit Thailand for a holiday and Millions leave to return to their homes and jobs.

How many Millions of "long stay tourists" are there?

Thailand does not need the serial tourist visa user !

[jacksam]

So true ONCE. How about a side bet. This visa one would imagine is not for the 2 million Chinese 2 week tourists. Where are they going with this, meaning immigration. They already provide visa exempt. My guess and yes no sound reason .......is to do away with double and triple entry tv with the METV that will be perhaps issued from all the previous consulates doing double and triple tv. Just logic and if the option option is enforced its just another stupid move by thai immigration

Can you justify the use of the word "stupid"

Millions of people visit Thailand for a holiday and Millions leave to return to their homes and jobs.

How many Millions of "long stay tourists" are there?

Thailand does not need the serial tourist visa user !

At present there is no limit on tourist visas. Yes some consulates only issue maybe couple back to back, but there is no limit. If thai immigration had a problem with people staying here long term then it would be simple to introduce something like maximum stay in Thailand in any 12 month cycle is say 6 months. They have not and will not. The confusion is with the term TOURIST. This for immigration means someone in Thailand not working.

Seems most of immigration concerns is regarding people working here illegally. The majority of those I would suggest are from neighbouring countries.

The METV will be available at some neighbouring consulates and the long term visitors to Thailand will remain. Business as usual. If immigration has another plan in mind then indeed they will make the METV only available in ones home country and next step would be to limit back to back single entry tv. I know what my money is on

[JackThompson]

So true ONCE. How about a side bet. This visa one would imagine is not for the 2 million Chinese 2 week tourists. Where are they going with this, meaning immigration. They already provide visa exempt. My guess and yes no sound reason .......is to do away with double and triple entry tv with the METV that will be perhaps issued from all the previous consulates doing double and triple tv. Just logic and if the option option is enforced its just another stupid move by thai immigration

Can you justify the use of the word "stupid"

Millions of people visit Thailand for a holiday and Millions leave to return to their homes and jobs.

How many Millions of "long stay tourists" are there?

Thailand does not need the serial tourist visa user !

At present there is no limit on tourist visas. Yes some consulates only issue maybe couple back to back, but there is no limit. If thai immigration had a problem with people staying here long term then it would be simple to introduce something like maximum stay in Thailand in any 12 month cycle is say 6 months. They have not and will not. The confusion is with the term TOURIST. This for immigration means someone in Thailand not working.

Seems most of immigration concerns is regarding people working here illegally. The majority of those I would suggest are from neighbouring countries.

The METV will be available at some neighbouring consulates and the long term visitors to Thailand will remain. Business as usual. If immigration has another plan in mind then indeed they will make the METV only available in ones home country and next step would be to limit back to back single entry tv. I know what my money is on

Evidently, given that Thai law does not currently restrict the use of serially-obtained Tourist visas, the Thai authorities think they do need "serial tourist visa" users - at least for the time-being. But if they change their law on this, and restrict to, say, 9 months per year, that could still be an improvement to the current uncertainty. I think it is a mistake to say what they will or will not do in the future.

Yes, millions of people still have 9-5 jobs. Others simply have to deliver results, without restrictions on their location, or what hours of the day they choose to accomplish their work. This labor-segment is presently the fastest-growing, middle-class occupation in the world. They have no reason to live in high-overhead nations (West) or high-poverty/crime nations. Thailand is the perfect fit, except for the Visa issue for under-50s.

Those are the sort of people who would like to buy condos and/or rent them long-term in Thailand. At present, many live in Cambodia, Philippines, Panama, Brazil, and other nations where serial-tourist visas and/or business visas are easy to obtain. Half of my neighbors in an apt-complex in Cambodia (all the long-term residents) fit this category (under-50, foreign-income, most formerly lived in Thailand and wished they could stay in Thailand long-term). Few are willing to "bet" on being able to access a condo owned in Thailand, given the current state of visa-uncertainty. Even by the time we turn 50, the retirement age may have been raised to 55 (and many are too young to fathom 'being 50').

It remains to be seen when/if the Immigration authorities will recognize the potential boon in foreign-assets transfers, and local-spending of those foreign-sourced incomes, which an accomodation to the millions of persons in this category would enable. The contrary also remains to be seen - when/if any limiations to serial tourist visas will be introduced. We can argue about "What Thailand Needs" or "Does Not Need" here, until blue in the face, but I do not think our discussions will significantly affect their decisions.

[jspill]

Can you justify the use of the word "stupid"

Millions of people visit Thailand for a holiday and Millions leave to return to their homes and jobs.

How many Millions of "long stay tourists" are there?

Thailand does not need the serial tourist visa user !

The world is changing, more people than ever before are location independent, work in the cloud and have no need to return home. Developing countries are happy to let these people stay there for protracted periods of time and offload their foreign sourced income. As long as they're not taking jobs from Thais or involved in criminal activity, Thailand wants them.

[jacksam]

Good post JACK. Many good points. Just to touch on one. If was under 50 and living here there is no way I would buy say a condo etc. Reason being it may be difficult to remain in los on an ongoing basis. In Cambodia right now and while I love los , I could imagine this as a possible 2nd choice for some.

[JB300]

Might add that it is rumored that some other countries may be added to visa exempt list. AU being one and possibly UK going from 14 to 30.

If you're referring to Vietnam then the UK is already (from 1st July) on the list of countries that can get 15 days visa exempt on arrival.

[JB300]

The key to any new replacement of double and triple tv with the METV. No one really knows if they will only be issued in your passport country. It's all guess work until the details are finally released. My opinion like most is guess work. I think METV will be available at many consulates. Would be difficult to imagine any sensible alternative.

Consider this.

Millions of people enjoy a holiday in Thailand. The majority only require a single entry Tourist Visa.

For those who plan and can afford to spend more time a METV obtainable in their own country would be appropriate.

What "difficulties" do you envisage if the METV is only issued in a persons own country ?

The biggest issue to me is that some embassies are asking for "Proof of Employment".

How many people with jobs can take more than 30 days of work (I.e need more than the Visa Exempt) or 60 days (VE with an extension or Single Entry Tourist Visa) or 90 days (SETV with extension)?

If there is a"Proof of Employment" requirement for the METV in the Uk then the only good use I can see for it is for the guys who work on rotation that are (unfairly) coming under some pressure using VEs regularly for their downtime, so what if they have 12 or so holidays to Thailand per year.

Edited October 30, 2015 by JB300