Refugee crisis: Greece and Germany stand firm on action plan

[webfact]

Refugee crisis: Greece and Germany stand firm on action plan



ATHENS: -- Panic, anger and desperation have all become common place along Europe’s many borders in recent months as thousands of refugees travel across the continent in search of a better life. At one crossing between Slovenia and Austria on Thursday evening it was no different.

Scuffles broke out and the fence put in place to halt the passage of people was no deterrent.

Just days ago, EU leaders agreed to boost cooperation and provide UN-aided housing for 100,000 people, but in the meantime the crisis shows no sign of letting up.

Speaking in Athens, Germany’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, said European countries needed to form a common border protection agency and to negotiate with Turkey.

Greece has seen half a million people arrive in the country since January.

“It would be good to stop the migrant flows before they reach the EU,” said the Greek foreign minister, Nikos Kotzias. “We shouldn’t allow them cross over from Turkey or organise joint patrols. We need them to not arrive here.”

Meanwhile, around 150 refugees and migrants arrived on the Greek island of Lesbos after being rescued at sea.

At least 30 people were missing after their boat sank trying to Greece.

On the other side of the Mediterranean, off the coast of Morocco, at least four African migrants drowned and another at least 35 were missing.

Spanish coast guards brought 15 people to the southern city of Malaga after they were plucked from the water after their boat sank.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-10-30

[dabhand]

Bit late for the Germans now to talk about a border protection agency and more co-operation with Turkey.

The words of Merkel were a god send for the people smugglers to encourage even more migrants / refugees to undertake this journey to the EU.

They now seem to be taking on board the way that Cameron has been advising for many months - improve the conditions of camps close to the Syria border and have a hard line on the numbers to be allowed into their countries. It may not succeed but at least it gives the impression of joined-up thinking, rather than the absolute chaos that we see at the moment.

Sky News reporting even more deaths from people attempting to cross from Turkey to Greece. Merkel has a lot to answer for.

[Saradoc1972]

Won't do any good if everybody is still drawn by the prospect of being able to live in Europe, mostly Germany and Sweden, on a level of relative "luxury" and social services (I know it's definitely not pretty at the moment) he or she would never have been able to afford in their home country for what likely enough is going to be an indefinite time, with repatriations being the exception, partly because their home countries simply won't take them back, partly because our nicety-level of human rights wasn't carved out for that level of refugees. This is not about somebody fleeing for safety or dear life, both Turkey and Greece, and all countries after that are safe.

You cannot "close down" a sea-border, unless you are willing to let (or make) them drown.

I suppose, at some point someone will have to start shooting. Otherwise the shooting will start in the receiving countries, like the prospect or not.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

i think a possible solution would be countries to offer temporary refugee status to these people and as soon as the situation in their countries normalizes that they are sent back.

[Ulic]

Quick, close the barn door the horses have left.

[peergin]

Mrs Merkel is not destroying Germany, she is destroying all of Western Europe. This is the third time Germany is doing that in the space of 100 years. The first time was the 1st World War (with weapons), the second was the 2nd World War (also with weapons), the 3rd time is the present debacle (with muslims). Why does she think she has the right to do that? I am flabbergasted to see how ignorant and irresponsible she is. That also applies to the impotent politicians in all the other West European countries except, to some degree, the UK. Our only hope is people like mrs. Marine Le Pen (France), mr. Geert Wilders (the Netherlands) and mr. Nigel Farage (UK). They are the only ones who seem to understand that Islam is taking over Western Europe. And that is exactly what muslims have been screaming from the rooftops for the past 15 years or so. Now they are doing it. History will judge the impotent politicians the same way people judge the incapable former UK prime minister Neville Chamberlain who was booted out in 1940. Incidentally, I suggest those so-called politicians spend an hour studying this website: islamthreat.com/

Edited October 30, 2015 by peergin

[baboon]

i think a possible solution would be countries to offer temporary refugee status to these people and as soon as the situation in their countries normalizes that they are sent back.

But what to do when and if they simply refuse to leave en masse?

[Saradoc1972]

i think a possible solution would be countries to offer temporary refugee status to these people and as soon as the situation in their countries normalizes that they are sent back.

But what to do when and if they simply refuse to leave en masse?

Jordan took in millions of Palestinian refugees from Israel back in the 60ies. When those got dissatisfied with Jordan not wanting to invade Israel there was a big civil war.

[Doc46]

Well they should have thought first before they let them all in,,,There will be trouble/civil war in the end,,,To late to send them all back and close the borders and saying Mea Culpa Mea Maxima Culpa

[Mudcrab]

i think a possible solution would be countries to offer temporary refugee status to these people and as soon as the situation in their countries normalizes that they are sent back.

But what to do when and if they simply refuse to leave en masse?

And their countries refuse to accept them back. Iran refuses to take back their own refugee citizens.

[Saradoc1972]

i think a possible solution would be countries to offer temporary refugee status to these people and as soon as the situation in their countries normalizes that they are sent back.

But what to do when and if they simply refuse to leave en masse?

And their countries refuse to accept them back. Iran refuses to take back their own refugee citizens.

Exactly. The EU has presently 28 countries on their list that are "problematic" when being offered back their own criminals.

including, e.g. Tunisia and Afghanistan, who are depending on western aid, but if you were to cut that the evil islamists would take over.

Libya under Qaddafi had a history of clearing out their prisons and mental wards when a western country was not acceding to their wishes, so they send some boat-loads of central African "refugees" over the Mediterraneans and just fit them in. So did Cuba, and everyone else.

With Afghanistan I'd know a solution, we got troops in there already, haven't we?

[wabothai]

I am sure lots of them leave of free will when the situation in their home country normalizes.

They will find out that their "new land" is not as attractive as they thought.

[cookee68]

They you go Merkel this is what happens when you try to play God, or should i say Allah as it will soon be once they get established, I hope that the UK breaks away from the EU, then being a little island we could spend more money on our borders and keep them over that side od the water, because now Germany dont want them they will change direction

[cookee68]

Every picture you see of a refugee there is always a women with kids up front, why dont we see the young men up front smoking and wearing baseball caps, oh i forgot it is the sympathy vote for the stupid westerners who fall for that shit

[anon4546543]

Ms Merkel, a former communist was elected by the so called clever Germans. She used to live in a country that plotted the downfall of the west. Now she has realised her dream. I aslo take issue with news broadcasters who constantly refer to this mass invasion as "refugees". A refugee is someone that seeks asylum from the nearest safe country. Most of these invaders left safe sanctuary and have become illegal economic migrants. Of course Ms Merkel invited them to Europe. She should be held accountable for being recklessly stupid. Europe as a whole will do nothing. But the UK can close its border, retrospectively allow temporary visas to those they have allowed in.

[baboon]

Every picture you see of a refugee there is always a women with kids up front, why dont we see the young men up front smoking and wearing baseball caps, oh i forgot it is the sympathy vote for the stupid westerners who fall for that shit

You have answered your own question. Moral blackmail is the name of the game.

[jope]

Am I the only one who can remember the daily news about drowning refugees in the Mediterranean? Am I the only one who can remember last year's situation in Italy and Greece? The crisis started way earlier. And Merkel (stupid or naive or pragmatic?) simply said that we have to deal with the situation and we do not determine a limit. So, to relieve EU-states under pressure she agreed to let them through.

And I repeat myself by saying that Germany alone has 80 Mio. people. The EU has more than 500 Mio. people. How can 1 or even 2 Mio. refugees (or however you want to call them) take down the Occident?

A few more figures: in 2014 (everything was still harmless) more then 20.000 people who had to leave Germany left voluntarily, a bit more than 9000 were forced to leave. These numbers will increase now. Why should they not? Around one third of the people now seeking asylum in Germany come from the West Balkans. Almost all of them will be sent back and they will leave one way or the other.

I am under the impression that quite a few people actually hope for Germany to fall (and Europe inevitably afterwards) for the only reason that they can say "I told you so".

[anon4546543]

Jope sad to disillusion you. The people invading Europe are not refugees, they are illegal economic migrants. They ceased to be refugees when they left a secure area, migrated through many countries and now demand that some country supports them. If some die trying to bludge off a country and so support a family that has tolerated abuses in their own country, so be it. Have you noticed all the young men, I should not call them men, that have no intention to defend their country. Why should my taxes be paid to support bludges, invaders.

[anon4546543]

To jobe, we told you so.

[jope]

To jobe, we told you so.

Too much, too early.

For the time being, let's stick to "we so like to tell you "we told you so" as soon as it happens". But it never will. Sorry (no, not really).

And I forgot to mention: we have a rather good public administration in Germany. We'll manage.

Edited October 30, 2015 by jope

[anon4546543]

jope, You, like Ms Merkel are deluded. You are being invaded. Probably a surprise to you and your country, you used to be the invaders. You have invited every economic sponge to suck the life out of your country. And like VW, you still try to deceive the world. You will soon be plagued by illiterate, low IQ, leeches. They will demand housing, food, education. ( Islam education) They have an ideology that says you are a heathen, and deserve to die. They cut the clitoris off the children, they say if you are not Islam then you deserve to die. I could go on but it would take pages. Welcome them with wide open arms. When they bleed your country, when they start killing you, you may remember. I told you so .

[PattayaPhom]

At the forefront of the above picture is a woman with a baby and a man and child, behind that is all young men except one woman. 90% are men between 21-35. Youtube and Google don't lie, many videos of riots, theft, beatings etc as soon as they are on Euro soil. Yes there are displaced families and we should help genuine refugees but these are not genuine. Many have lived and worked in Turkey for 2 or 3 years befor travelling to Greece, Saudi has air con tents for 3 million people yet havnt taken one single refugee. The face of Europe is changing at a rapid pace and with fertility rates at all time lows of Western Europeans in less than 20 years Europe will really be Eurabia. The French, Belgiums and Dutch are close to being minorities n their countries already and within 10 years Sharia will be in force in cities such as Paris, Marseille, Amsterdam, Brussels and Antwerp Gaddaffi always said that Islam would invade and conquer Europe without, weapons, war or suicide bombers....he was corect

[simple1]

To jobe, we told you so.

Too much, too early.

For the time being, let's stick to "we so like to tell you "we told you so" as soon as it happens". But it never will. Sorry (no, not really).

And I forgot to mention: we have a rather good public administration in Germany. We'll manage.

Jope, no matter what you say some posters will strictly adhere to their opinions. As an example UNHCR and NGOs have clearly stated the vast majority of refugees from Syria are actually from the educated 'middle class', yet it is repeatedly falsely asserted otherwise. UNHCR and other organisations have announced in the public domain that Syrians departing places such as Turkey are doing do as they've run out of money to support themselves, very limited access to education for their children and so on. The majority of refugees in places such as Turkey & Lebanon do not have access to refugee camps. Additionally the relief agencies are under funded & resourced to support the refugee population adding to the push factors.

In other topics it has been outlined by Scott (lots of hands on experience with refugees in the M.E.) other factors, including the point that in law the refugees in places such as Turkey and Lebanon are not considered to be located in 'safe' countries. Of course all the self appointed refugee experts on this forum completely ignore his knowledgeable contributions.

Edited October 31, 2015 by simple1

[Usernames]

Am I the only one who can remember the daily news about drowning refugees in the Mediterranean? Am I the only one who can remember last year's situation in Italy and Greece? The crisis started way earlier. And Merkel (stupid or naive or pragmatic?) simply said that we have to deal with the situation and we do not determine a limit. So, to relieve EU-states under pressure she agreed to let them through.

And I repeat myself by saying that Germany alone has 80 Mio. people. The EU has more than 500 Mio. people. How can 1 or even 2 Mio. refugees (or however you want to call them) take down the Occident?

A few more figures: in 2014 (everything was still harmless) more then 20.000 people who had to leave Germany left voluntarily, a bit more than 9000 were forced to leave. These numbers will increase now. Why should they not? Around one third of the people now seeking asylum in Germany come from the West Balkans. Almost all of them will be sent back and they will leave one way or the other.

I am under the impression that quite a few people actually hope for Germany to fall (and Europe inevitably afterwards) for the only reason that they can say "I told you so".

--A few more figures: in 2014 (everything was still harmless) more then 20.000 people who had to leave Germany left voluntarily, a bit more than 9000 were forced to leave. These numbers will increase now. Why should they not?

Because a little less than 30,000 people is a manageable number. A couple of million are not. They are an immovable force. Just listen to the excuse in the US about not enforcing US immigration law, where people say NOW that you cannot deport illegals because you cannot round up 11 million people. Germans are about to hit the same critical mass. Those "refugees" will be there forever.

[anon4546543]

When Russia has evicted all Syrians that oppose the current government, Syria will be occupied by Iranians and Russians. Between them, the Sunni sect of Saudi Arabia supported by the US and the Iranian sect supported supported by Russia is all that will remain. IS will eventually be squeezed out. Russia will have a base in the Mediteranian, Iran will control another country, Israel will have another enemy on its door. And Europe will be flooded with economic migrants. And Putin is laughing. Welcome to the new world.

[cookee68]

Ms Merkel, a former communist was elected by the so called clever Germans. She used to live in a country that plotted the downfall of the west. Now she has realised her dream. I aslo take issue with news broadcasters who constantly refer to this mass invasion as "refugees". A refugee is someone that seeks asylum from the nearest safe country. Most of these invaders left safe sanctuary and have become illegal economic migrants. Of course Ms Merkel invited them to Europe. She should be held accountable for being recklessly stupid. Europe as a whole will do nothing. But the UK can close its border, retrospectively allow temporary visas to those they have allowed in.

I fully agree with you 100 percent. its irony the last time we were trying to be invaded the Germans were involved, things with them never change

[peko]

i think a possible solution would be countries to offer temporary refugee status to these people and as soon as the situation in their countries normalizes that they are sent back.

Trouble is, they won't go back. It's a ratchet affect. Who's going to grab them and pack them on buses going to Syria? You? Police? and when their countries of origin (the 50% who didn't trash their passports or fake their papers) won't take 'em back,what to do? Bus them all the way back to Merkel's back yard.