British man Amer Shaker released from Guantanamo Bay

[7by7]

So, using your logic; because some Western men travel to Thailand and other S.E. Asian countries so they can indulge in their predilection for sex with children all Western men in that region, including you, are probably paedophiles!

Which is, of course, ridiculous; as ridiculous as your assumption that because this man is a Muslim he is probably a terrorist!

The US government spent 13 years using a variety of methods, including torture, in an attempt to find any evidence that Shaker is or ever has been a terrorist. They failed, and have now admitted that no such evidence exists.

[KunMatt]

So, using your logic; because some Western men travel to Thailand and other S.E. Asian countries so they can indulge in their predilection for sex with children all Western men in that region, including you, are probably paedophiles!

Which is, of course, ridiculous; as ridiculous as your assumption that because this man is a Muslim he is probably a terrorist!

The US government spent 13 years using a variety of methods, including torture, in an attempt to find any evidence that Shaker is or ever has been a terrorist. They failed, and have now admitted that no such evidence exists.

It all just echoes all of the other Muslims who have recently gone to Syria for "charity work" and then they all turn up as members of ISIS.

There is no evidence that he moved all of his family to be with the Taliban in 2001 for "charity work". I can also find no evidence of him doing any charity work before 2001. All I can find is that he used to help immigrants come to the UK. Now, I cannot find which immigrants he aided in coming to the UK but I would bet that he exclusively helped Muslims, and I also bet if there was ever any investigative journalism done on who he helped then most of them would have been involved with al-qeada or ISIS before and/or since.

Like I orginally said, let's just wait and see what happens with this guy in the coming years. The UK tabloids will eventually expose him or his family if they are up to no good. And when they do I'm sure you will be here to defend them all no matter how evil it is.

[7by7]

So you think the UK tabloids, not exactly known for their veracity and objectivity whichever side of the political spectrum they are on, will be able to achieve what the US government couldn't after 13 years of investigation and torture!!

Laughable!

You are saying that lack of hard evidence that he is innocent proves he is guilty!

Not laughable; dangerous. I hope that the basic principle of the assumption of innocence forever remains enshrined in the law of the UK.

Assuming people are guilty because of their ethnicity or religion is not only against all natural justice; it plays right into the hands of the real terrorists. As Thatcher discovered with her policy of internment without trial in Northern Ireland. IRA support, especially in the USA, increased dramatically due to that.

<snip>
I'm sure you will be here to defend them all no matter how evil it is.

Yet again I am accused of defending evil, criminals and terrorists.

I make the same challenge to you that I have made to the others who have made similar accusations.

Provide one post, just one, in which I have ever defended any criminal, terrorist or evil act or person.

When you have been unable to find any, will you behave like an adult and withdraw your remark?

[RuamRudy]

It all just echoes all of the other Muslims who have recently gone to Syria for "charity work" and then they all turn up as members of ISIS.

There is no evidence that he moved all of his family to be with the Taliban in 2001 for "charity work". I can also find no evidence of him doing any charity work before 2001. All I can find is that he used to help immigrants come to the UK. Now, I cannot find which immigrants he aided in coming to the UK but I would bet that he exclusively helped Muslims, and I also bet if there was ever any investigative journalism done on who he helped then most of them would have been involved with al-qeada or ISIS before and/or since.

Like I orginally said, let's just wait and see what happens with this guy in the coming years. The UK tabloids will eventually expose him or his family if they are up to no good. And when they do I'm sure you will be here to defend them all no matter how evil it is.

I know that British justice is a bit of an oxymoron, but even Theresa May has not succeeded in doing away with the need for evidence in a trial. Without it, you are not in a position to make a comment on his motives one way or the other. Your certainty is based upon nothing more than prejudice.

[KunMatt]

So you think the UK tabloids, not exactly known for their veracity and objectivity whichever side of the political spectrum they are on, will be able to achieve what the US government couldn't after 13 years of investigation and torture!!

Laughable!

You are saying that lack of hard evidence that he is innocent proves he is guilty!

Not laughable; dangerous. I hope that the basic principle of the assumption of innocence forever remains enshrined in the law of the UK.

Assuming people are guilty because of their ethnicity or religion is not only against all natural justice; it plays right into the hands of the real terrorists. As Thatcher discovered with her policy of internment without trial in Northern Ireland. IRA support, especially in the USA, increased dramatically due to that.

<snip>

I'm sure you will be here to defend them all no matter how evil it is.

Yet again I am accused of defending evil, criminals and terrorists.

I make the same challenge to you that I have made to the others who have made similar accusations.

Provide one post, just one, in which I have ever defended any criminal, terrorist or evil act or person.

When you have been unable to find any, will you behave like an adult and withdraw your remark?

I haven't said he is guilty of anything. I also didn't say that he was guilty because he was a Muslim, and he isn't just some random Muslim who was picked up off the streets where he was living. He moved his family to Afghanistan to be involved with the Taliban and his excuse was that he was doing charity work and yet he never did any charity work prior to this. I think it's more tha odd he decided to move all of his family to a dangerous terrorist controlled part of a 3rd world country so he could do some "charity work".

And yes, who was it that revealed all of the details about Jihad John, for example, who was another regular guy just going to Syria to do some "charity work"? How do we find out about all of the British families who run off to join ISIS? It's not from our government who are too busy apologising to the father of those girls who joined ISIS only to be later revealed by the tabloids that he was also an anti-west Muslim radical who recently attended hate rallies.

[chuckd]

So, using your logic; because some Western men travel to Thailand and other S.E. Asian countries so they can indulge in their predilection for sex with children all Western men in that region, including you, are probably paedophiles!

Which is, of course, ridiculous; as ridiculous as your assumption that because this man is a Muslim he is probably a terrorist!

The US government spent 13 years using a variety of methods, including torture, in an attempt to find any evidence that Shaker is or ever has been a terrorist. They failed, and have now admitted that no such evidence exists.

"The US government spent 13 years using a variety of methods, including torture"

Specifically, what methods of torture were used on Shaker? A reputable link would be nice.

[7by7]

OK, KunMatt; I bow to your logic.

Shaker was in Afghanistan when he was kidnapped and sold to the Americans; therefore he must be a terrorist.

Other Muslims are, or at least support, terrorists; therefore Shaker must a terrorist.

You can find no evidence that he and his family moved to Afghanistan for the reason he states; therefore he must be a terrorist.

So, using your supreme logic:-

Some Westerners in Thailand are paedophiles, therefore you must be a paedophile.

I can find no evidence that you have ever been in Thailand for any other reason; therefore you must be a paedophile.

An absurd allegation to make, of course, without a shred of evidence.

And one I am sure is not true, I am going to extremes to show the absurdity of your allegations that Shaker is a terrorist when even the US government now admit there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest that he might be.

chuckd,

I have a feeling that whichever source I put up will be condemned as biased; but I offer this one, of many: Want to know the reality of US torture? Ask Shaker Aamer

[KunMatt]

OK, KunMatt; I bow to your logic.

Shaker was in Afghanistan when he was kidnapped and sold to the Americans; therefore he must be a terrorist.

Other Muslims are, or at least support, terrorists; therefore Shaker must a terrorist.

You can find no evidence that he and his family moved to Afghanistan for the reason he states; therefore he must be a terrorist.

So, using your supreme logic:-

Some Westerners in Thailand are paedophiles, therefore you must be a paedophile.

I can find no evidence that you have ever been in Thailand for any other reason; therefore you must be a paedophile.

An absurd allegation to make, of course, without a shred of evidence.

And one I am sure is not true, I am going to extremes to show the absurdity of your allegations that Shaker is a terrorist when even the US government now admit there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest that he might be.

chuckd,

I have a feeling that whichever source I put up will be condemned as biased; but I offer this one, of many: Want to know the reality of US torture? Ask Shaker Aamer

I never said he was a terrorist or that all Muslims are terrorists, you keep trying to steer the conversation onto that so you can say "see everyone is Islamophobic for no good reasons". You also said that "after lying low for a few yearz he will RE-engage in terrorist activities" so maybe it's you that is really prejudice or you dont believe your own argument.

Also is it true he was room mates with Zacarias Moussaoui? That's not at all suspicious of him either, is it?

All I've said is that I will be keeping am eye on the news with this guy, and when anything comes out about him or his family I will be throwing it in the faces of all the people who are constantly saying that there is no problem with extremism or terrorism concerning Muslims and that all of the worldwide terrorism is only done by a handful of non-Muslim crazies when the truth is that Islamic nations and leaders are not that much different from ISIS. Only yesterday Afghanistan stoned a woman to death for adultery, in 2015!! She would've been treated exactly the same had she been in the IS.

It's their laws and how they want to live. What annoys me the most is all the lies and excuses for it by people like yourself who are just spreading propaganda and doing damage control while the Arab crusade is continuing to the take over the world.

[Thongkorn]

And Britiish civilian courts jail a marine for shooting dead a taliban fighter, Someone is taking the piss.

The difference being that there is clear evidence that one committed murder and a war crime, whereas there is no evidence whatsoever that the other was acting illegally.

It's common practise to shoot your enemies when they are on the ground, just to make certain they are dead, slot them twice comes to mind.

[RuamRudy]

And Britiish civilian courts jail a marine for shooting dead a taliban fighter, Someone is taking the piss.

The difference being that there is clear evidence that one committed murder and a war crime, whereas there is no evidence whatsoever that the other was acting illegally.

It's common practise to shoot your enemies when they are on the ground, just to make certain they are dead, slot them twice comes to mind.

So when do you give them an opportunity to surrender?

[simple1]

OK, KunMatt; I bow to your logic.

Shaker was in Afghanistan when he was kidnapped and sold to the Americans; therefore he must be a terrorist.

Other Muslims are, or at least support, terrorists; therefore Shaker must a terrorist.

You can find no evidence that he and his family moved to Afghanistan for the reason he states; therefore he must be a terrorist.

So, using your supreme logic:-

Some Westerners in Thailand are paedophiles, therefore you must be a paedophile.

I can find no evidence that you have ever been in Thailand for any other reason; therefore you must be a paedophile.

An absurd allegation to make, of course, without a shred of evidence.

And one I am sure is not true, I am going to extremes to show the absurdity of your allegations that Shaker is a terrorist when even the US government now admit there is absolutely no evidence to even suggest that he might be.

chuckd,

I have a feeling that whichever source I put up will be condemned as biased; but I offer this one, of many: Want to know the reality of US torture? Ask Shaker Aamer

I never said he was a terrorist or that all Muslims are terrorists, you keep trying to steer the conversation onto that so you can say "see everyone is Islamophobic for no good reasons". You also said that "after lying low for a few yearz he will RE-engage in terrorist activities" so maybe it's you that is really prejudice or you dont believe your own argument.

Also is it true he was room mates with Zacarias Moussaoui? That's not at all suspicious of him either, is it?

All I've said is that I will be keeping am eye on the news with this guy, and when anything comes out about him or his family I will be throwing it in the faces of all the people who are constantly saying that there is no problem with extremism or terrorism concerning Muslims and that all of the worldwide terrorism is only done by a handful of non-Muslim crazies when the truth is that Islamic nations and leaders are not that much different from ISIS. Only yesterday Afghanistan stoned a woman to death for adultery, in 2015!! She would've been treated exactly the same had she been in the IS.

It's their laws and how they want to live. What annoys me the most is all the lies and excuses for it by people like yourself who are just spreading propaganda and doing damage control while the Arab crusade is continuing to the take over the world.

Death by stoning for convicted adulterers is banned under Afghanistan law. The murder was carried out the Taliban, not the government. Although as someone said who has worked in Afghanistan for many years, more often than not these killings are utilised for personal reasons.

As for Shaker it has already been announced he will be monitored by UK security.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11967853/Police-ready-to-interview-Shaker-Aamer-over-claims-British-agent-complicit-in-torture.html

Edited November 5, 2015 by simple1

[nontabury]

Indeed.

Blackman's defence is that he thought the man was already dead.

In which case, one has to wonder why he walked up to him and shot him, saying as he did so "Shuffle off this mortal coil" Not the actions of a professional soldier!

As has been repeatedly said, there is zero reliable evidence that Amer Shaker ever committed any crime; even the American government concede that. He has never been charged with any criminal offence, let along tried and convicted.

But it seems that for some people the mere fact that he is Muslim means he must be guilty.

Which speaks volumes about them.

[7by7]

(embedded quote removed to comply with forum software)

I never said he was a terrorist or that all Muslims are terrorists, you keep trying to steer the conversation onto that so you can say "see everyone is Islamophobic for no good reasons".

Really? You even repeat your assumption further on in the above post!

You also said that "after lying low for a few yearz he will RE-engage in terrorist activities" so maybe it's you that is really prejudice or you dont believe your own argument.

Misquoting; a favourite tool of those like yourself.

What I actually said was

Ok, let's give it a couple of years and see what this guy and/or his immediate family get involved in.

Charity work, perhaps? He does have a history of that!

Or are you assuming that because he is a Muslim that he must also be a terrorist and after lying low for a few years will reengage in terrorist activities?

Any evidence that he was ever an associate of Zacarias Moussaoui? Other than the since discredited evidence from his Guantanamo Bay file?

You deny saying Shaker is a terrorist, yet your every post and remark about him is based on the assumption that he is. Even in the above post, after denying you have claimed he is a terrorist, you say "when" rather than "if" in relation to future revelations about any terrorist activities you believe he has or will be engaged in!

The rest of your post is the usual rubbish about all Muslims being terrorists or the supporters of terrorists who want to establish a world wide caliphate under strict Sharia law: yet at the start of your post you deny ever saying or believing this!

It seems that not only do you not remember nor understand what I have posted, you also don't remember nor understand what you have posted!

[7by7]

Nontabury; whether Blackman is guilty of murder or manslaughter is a matter for the courts to decide.

But do you really believe it is perfectly acceptable for British soldiers to kill severely wounded opponents?

Surely we are supposed to be the good guys?

[nontabury]

Nontabury; whether Blackman is guilty of murder or manslaughter is a matter for the courts to decide.

But do you really believe it is perfectly acceptable for British soldiers to kill severely wounded opponents?

Surely we are supposed to be the good guys?

I completely agree with you, yet many things in war are unacceptable.That is the nature of war.