In praise of divorced men

[Fabricus]

I assume that you are saying this because you have been through a divorce and now you feel wiser? Is that a fair assessment? There is something to be said about learning from your mistakes, but in this instance I think people who get married and stay married are just as wise. In fact arguably wiser and better equipped to deal with and understand the ups and downs of a relationship.

Suppose you met an astronaut who told you he'd been to Venus and said the experience had made him wiser.

Would you disagree with him?

I'm merely comparing the BEFORE with the AFTER. One is wiser than the other.

[SoiBiker]

That seems like a very narrow minded point of view. Like only a math teacher understands math. etc No disrespect implied or intended.

It's a bit like saying that people who failed their exams make the best teachers.

[GAZZPA]

I agree that most negative experiences in life that you overcome, divorce / addictions / serious accidents will make you wiser whatever your gender.

JHolmesJr said

'Divorced men seem to be the ones who haven't a clue of holding a relationship together….well thats how it appears at least.'

I have been divorced twice and i think that judgement could correctly have been applied for me on both occasions (was a slow learner) In hindsight i should have been less nice, less reasonable and less compromising!

I'd go with married/divorced, having kids and losing your parents. You're pretty much qualified in life then. And apparently, you can be quite interesting too.

Perhaps more interesting yes, or judging by many posters on TV it can also make you bitter, twisted and a complete bore!

[bazza40]

I assume that you are saying this because you have been through a divorce and now you feel wiser? Is that a fair assessment? There is something to be said about learning from your mistakes, but in this instance I think people who get married and stay married are just as wise. In fact arguably wiser and better equipped to deal with and understand the ups and downs of a relationship.

I think it is sad when people break up but I also think people bail out all too easy nowadays, as soon as things get tough (and they always do from time to time) they apply pressure to each other and let it all fall apart. I think the older generation (I am not there yet, I am referring to my grandparents) where made with stronger stuff and when things got difficult they knuckled down together and dealt with it.

Both my grandparents stayed together and were happy up until the day they died.

I stayed in an bad marriage for 28 years out of a sense of responsibility and duty. In hindsight, I should have ended it after one month.

I'd suggest for every marriage that stays the distance ( till death do us part ) under happy circumstances, there are an equal number where the partners hate each others guts, but stay together because they are frightened of the alternative.

[MaeJoMTB]

That seems like a very narrow minded point of view. Like only a math teacher understands math. etc No disrespect implied or intended.

It's a bit like saying that people who failed their exams make the best teachers.

Answering the exams every year makes you great at passing.

[GAZZPA]

I assume that you are saying this because you have been through a divorce and now you feel wiser? Is that a fair assessment? There is something to be said about learning from your mistakes, but in this instance I think people who get married and stay married are just as wise. In fact arguably wiser and better equipped to deal with and understand the ups and downs of a relationship.

Suppose you met an astronaut who told you he'd been to Venus and said the experience had made him wiser.

Would you disagree with him?

I'm merely comparing the BEFORE with the AFTER. One is wiser than the other.

You said you don't take men seriously until they have been through a divorce,, also, (and I quote) men who say they are rock solid in their relationship are "pip squeaks".

So, doesn't look you are comparing simply the before and after...

Anyway, i disagree with your view. I am on the side of the fence that says people who can hold their relationship together are wiser and more knowledgeable about relationships simply because they have made it, despite all the inevitable ups and downs.

[bazza40]

That seems like a very narrow minded point of view. Like only a math teacher understands math. etc No disrespect implied or intended.

It's a bit like saying that people who failed their exams make the best teachers.

You seem to be quite adept at creating erroneous analogies. I'm not aware of exams or maths containing the same elements of human emotion as marriage - please enlighten me.

[GAZZPA]

I assume that you are saying this because you have been through a divorce and now you feel wiser? Is that a fair assessment? There is something to be said about learning from your mistakes, but in this instance I think people who get married and stay married are just as wise. In fact arguably wiser and better equipped to deal with and understand the ups and downs of a relationship.

I think it is sad when people break up but I also think people bail out all too easy nowadays, as soon as things get tough (and they always do from time to time) they apply pressure to each other and let it all fall apart. I think the older generation (I am not there yet, I am referring to my grandparents) where made with stronger stuff and when things got difficult they knuckled down together and dealt with it.

Both my grandparents stayed together and were happy up until the day they died.

I stayed in an bad marriage for 28 years out of a sense of responsibility and duty. In hindsight, I should have ended it after one month.

I'd suggest for every marriage that stays the distance ( till death do us part ) under happy circumstances, there are an equal number where the partners hate each others guts, but stay together because they are frightened of the alternative.

I agree there must be an element of truth in that, no way of knowing stats on this though.

Better to be less cynical about it, if people stay together and appear to be happy then give them the benefit of doubt and doff your hat.

[MaeJoMTB]

Anyway, i disagree with your view. I am on the side of the fence that says people who can hold their relationship together are wiser and more knowledgeable about relationships simply because they have made it, despite all the inevitable ups and downs.

So someone who holds a relationship together for 1 year is wiser than someone who was in a relationship for 30 years?

No, that's clearly silly, how do you know the shorter relationship won't end next week?

What if one of them dies after 5 years? Is the surviving member wiser than the relationship that lasted 30 years?

One of the problems with young people who have little experience of the world, is they don't think things through.

The superficial answer is what they consider the right answer.

Edited November 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[bazza40]

So, doesn't look you are comparing simply the before and after...

Anyway, i disagree with your view. I am on the side of the fence that says people who can hold their relationship together are wiser and more knowledgeable about relationships simply because they have made it, despite all the inevitable ups and downs.

If you said people who can hold their relationship together were happier or more contented, no argument. It is entirely possible for a person of limited intellectual capacity to be perfectly happy. Wiser and more knowledgeable? Disagree - how would you go about proving your assertion?

[bazza40]

So, doesn't look you are comparing simply the before and after...

Anyway, i disagree with your view. I am on the side of the fence that says people who can hold their relationship together are wiser and more knowledgeable about relationships simply because they have made it, despite all the inevitable ups and downs.

If you said people who can hold their relationship together were happier or more contented, no argument. It is entirely possible for a person of limited intellectual capacity to be perfectly happy. Wiser and more knowledgeable? Disagree - how would you go about proving your assertion?

[GAZZPA]

I think the older generation (I am not there yet, I am referring to my grandparents) where made with stronger stuff and when things got difficult they knuckled down together and dealt with it.

Both my grandparents stayed together and were happy up until the day they died.

Your granny didn't have the option of a modern woman.

Divorce then would have left her homeless and penniless.

Divorce now would have left him homeless and penniless.

Ha, ha,, What do you know about it! Neither of them had any money, so it was never an option considering division of wealth. If there were any truth in your point the only thing they could have argued about is who gets the decent dinner set,,,. They were simply happy and in love until the end. Very difficult for a bitter man to understand I know, I guess you will just have to take my world for it.

I suspect you have been taken for a few quid, right? I must be right because only a bitter man would highlight the "money aspect" as the key factor in a failed relationship.

[GAZZPA]

Anyway, i disagree with your view. I am on the side of the fence that says people who can hold their relationship together are wiser and more knowledgeable about relationships simply because they have made it, despite all the inevitable ups and downs.

So someone who holds a relationship together for 1 year is wiser than someone who was in a relationship for 30 years?

No, that's clearly silly, how do you know the shorter relationship won't end next week?

What if one of them dies after 5 years? Is the surviving member wiser than the relationship that lasted 30 years?

One of the problems with young people who have little experience of the world, is they don't think things through.

The superficial answer is what they consider the right answer.

What are you talking about? One of the problems with cynical old people is they cannot think things through properly anymore because their view of the world is jaded by bitter experience (which is often all they have)?

When did I say that someone in a 1 year relationship is wiser then someone who has a 30 year relationship? Talk about lack of understanding, please read my posts again before you start abusing me. (perhaps read slowly this time and increase the font size)

Here, a simple summary. The poster is stating that its only when you have been through a divorce that you know a thing or 2 about life, I disagree. I think people who get married and stay married are just as wise, in fact wiser for staying together through the ups and downs and are potentially better equipped to deal with relationships.

[rogeroc]

Maybe either a bitter man or a modern woman.

[SoiBiker]

I think some divorced men develop a rather twisted, bitter view of the world. Some, like the OP, mistake this for wisdom and assume that those who don't share their misanthropy are naive.

Personally, I'd rather take advice from those who can take what the world throws at them and still come up smiling.

[GAZZPA]

So, doesn't look you are comparing simply the before and after...

Anyway, i disagree with your view. I am on the side of the fence that says people who can hold their relationship together are wiser and more knowledgeable about relationships simply because they have made it, despite all the inevitable ups and downs.

If you said people who can hold their relationship together were happier or more contented, no argument. It is entirely possible for a person of limited intellectual capacity to be perfectly happy. Wiser and more knowledgeable? Disagree - how would you go about proving your assertion?

So people who are perfectly happy staying together are of "limited intellectual capacity". . Are you suggesting you have significant intellectual capacity? Is that where these pearls of wisdom are coming from? From my experience the smartest people don't draw attention to their intellect, they see little point, only the people of limited intellectual capacity sight themselves as being smart...

I don't need to prove my assertion, the same as you don't, it is just opinion, we are not in a court of law.

[botfly]

The OP is like stating what's normalcy for the spider can be chaos for the fly.

[rogeroc]

GAZZPA

Talk about lack of understanding, please read my posts again before you start abusing me. (perhaps read slowly this time and increase the font size)

That sounds abusive to me

[GAZZPA]

GAZZPA

Talk about lack of understanding, please read my posts again before you start abusing me. (perhaps read slowly this time and increase the font size)

That sounds abusive to me

just replying in kind to the patronising

[JAFO]

There are some great reads out there on the dynamics of divorce. I browsed a few. I have found it interesting that quite a few of the acquaintances and colleagues I know that got divorced stand in total denial to this day that they had any wrong doing even though they admit they had found outside the marriage interests. I also know a few that are in the most hateful, spiteful marriage and refuse to pull the plug. They make comments like "Its cheaper to keep her". My response to them; "Is it really?. Clearly they have a financial number associated with their mental health and happiness. Funny what money does to people. Its a sickness in many regards. Sadly their plan usually backfires because as we all know, if you are cheating, you will get caught..

Bottom-line it takes 2. It always has and always will. You can't marry yourself. LOL! I was as much part of the demise of our marriage as my ex wife was. There was no wrong doing, she never cheated, nor did I we just became different people. But again not all has to be mean, ugly, petty, hateful. you make it what it is. I tell any person that is considering divorce handle it like an adult. Do not stoop to games, cheating, name calling, finger pointing, trying to hide money, etc etc.

I think back on mine and it was odd in many ways, we did all the paperwork ourselves sitting at the dining room table. No lawyers!. We decided why give those blood sucking divorce lawyers our hard earned money to do what we can do. In fact many lawyers instigate divorce wars because they get more out of it so in the end they would get it all. As for the money, well it was hard to split half but you know we made it together. We both worked hard, we both had and still have professional careers. We both agreed it would be really bad to try and argue to take more from the other.

Some of the divorces I have watched unfold were interesting and painful. I have many stories I could post. All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go. It ads zero value to your life and the more you bitch and piss and moan the longer that divorce hangs with you. If you got taken for everything you owned then you likely did something wrong.

[MaeJoMTB]

All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go.

Hard to let it go when you are never allowed to see your children again.

[rogeroc]

SB

"I think some divorced men develop a rather twisted, bitter view of the world. Some, like the OP, mistake this for wisdom and assume that those who don't share their misanthropy are naive.

Personally, I'd rather take advice from those who can take what the world throws at them and still come up smiling".

I think you can be misanthropic but still take what the world throws at you and still come up smiling. I agree with a previous poster who said that trust is overrated, even though this view may be considered unconventional. On the subject of bitterness my view is presumably similar to yours, self defeating and destructive.

[GAZZPA]

All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go.

Hard to let it go when you are never allowed to see your children again.

I might not agree with a lot of what you say but thats just f*&cking wrong. Sorry to hear you are in that situation, must be more then difficult. Hope it sorts itself out for you one day.

[MaeJoMTB]

All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go.

Hard to let it go when you are never allowed to see your children again.

I might not agree with a lot of what you say but thats just f*&cking wrong. Sorry to hear you are in that situation, must be more then difficult. Hope it sorts itself out for you one day.

Thanks,

It has been sorted out (in a way), I have made new children now, but I still think of the 4 I was forced to leave 8 years ago.

Edited November 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[rogeroc]

JAFO

I like your lengthy post above and you were very lucky that you were able to sort your divorce amicably. I believe it is what can happen during and after divorce, especially if children are involved, that can turn you misanthropic.

[SoiBiker]

All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go.

Hard to let it go when you are never allowed to see your children again.

I might not agree with a lot of what you say but thats just f*&cking wrong. Sorry to hear you are in that situation, must be more then difficult. Hope it sorts itself out for you one day.

Thanks,

It has been sorted out (in a way), I have made new children now, but I still think of the 4 I was forced to leave 8 years ago.

I hear making them is the fun part.

But yeah, that does kinda suck.

[GAZZPA]

All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go.

Hard to let it go when you are never allowed to see your children again.

I might not agree with a lot of what you say but thats just f*&cking wrong. Sorry to hear you are in that situation, must be more then difficult. Hope it sorts itself out for you one day.

Thanks,

It has been sorted out (in a way), I have made new children now, but I still think of the 4 I was forced to leave 8 years ago.

Good for you. I am sure you do still think of them. I hope a reconciliation is on the cards for you someday soon.

[JAFO]

All I can say is the bitter guys need to let it go.

Hard to let it go when you are never allowed to see your children again.

While I feel for you, to have that situation exist something had to have happened to get it to that point. They do not say you cannot ever see your children again without some sort of reason. But that's non of my business.

[JAFO]

JAFO

I like your lengthy post above and you were very lucky that you were able to sort your divorce amicably. I believe it is what can happen during and after divorce, especially if children are involved, that can turn you misanthropic.

Thanks. Trust me, it was not easy. There were moments where I had to leave and regroup as it can be overwhelming. We had a few digs at each other but that is to be expected. I refused to engage in them. If you do not volley back they just diffuse. It takes a lot of discipline for sure and a really good bottle of Scotch...LOL.

I know a few that still have not recovered mentally from their divorce. The hate they carry is slowly eating them up. I no longer associate with them. There is not one nice thing they say. To them all women are conniving whores and they will never trust anyone again. Those are the ones I think you mention Rogeroc about being misanthropic. They just disconnect. Interestingly it always seemed to be about the money and how they are living in the poor house and not about the children.

The big losers in the deal are always the children, especially in ugly battles.

[rogeroc]

I agree I quote from a previous post (not one of mine) 'Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' Maybe that is reason enough! In the UK, USA, Canada and other places divorced mothers have all the power in these situations.