A year from US Election Day, GOP faces chaos it hoped to avoid

[RidgeRunner]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

The RNC wants to bring happiness to the American people. No disagreements allowed, especially on the illegal alien amnesty, which is why they have the daggers out for Trump are looking for ANYONE (Fiorina, Carson, Rubio, Bush, Kasich) who will go against the wishes of the American people and give out the amnesty and all its very costly financial benefits.

Ronald Reagan gave the illegal Mexicans amnesty.

He also forced employers to file an I-9 Form so the Mexicans had to provide ID.

Now, the illegals are just providing fake ID to get a job.

The employer does withhold tax and social security that will never be repaid to these illegals.

The illegal Mexicans are leaving millions behind in the social security fund.

[Usernames]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

The RNC wants to bring happiness to the American people. No disagreements allowed, especially on the illegal alien amnesty, which is why they have the daggers out for Trump are looking for ANYONE (Fiorina, Carson, Rubio, Bush, Kasich) who will go against the wishes of the American people and give out the amnesty and all its very costly financial benefits.

Ronald Reagan gave the illegal Mexicans amnesty.

He also forced employers to file an I-9 Form so the Mexicans had to provide ID.

Now, the illegals are just providing fake ID to get a job.

The employer does withhold tax and social security that will never be repaid to these illegals.

The illegal Mexicans are leaving millions behind in the social security fund.

But if the illegals (mexican and others) get amnesty, which is what you and the RNC demand as necessary to get hispanic votes, then they WILL get social security, not to mention be eligible for medicaid, and to lawfully file for the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is poorly named, because it is a direct cash payment to people with dependents who don't make enough to pay any income tax.

[RidgeRunner]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

The RNC wants to bring happiness to the American people. No disagreements allowed, especially on the illegal alien amnesty, which is why they have the daggers out for Trump are looking for ANYONE (Fiorina, Carson, Rubio, Bush, Kasich) who will go against the wishes of the American people and give out the amnesty and all its very costly financial benefits.

Ronald Reagan gave the illegal Mexicans amnesty.

He also forced employers to file an I-9 Form so the Mexicans had to provide ID.

Now, the illegals are just providing fake ID to get a job.

The employer does withhold tax and social security that will never be repaid to these illegals.

The illegal Mexicans are leaving millions behind in the social security fund.

But if the illegals (mexican and others) get amnesty, which is what you and the RNC demand as necessary to get hispanic votes, then they WILL get social security, not to mention be eligible for medicaid, and to lawfully file for the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is poorly named, because it is a direct cash payment to people with dependents who don't make enough to pay any income tax.

They will only qualify for SS if they pay in for 40 quarters (10 years), no?

[Usernames]

Ronald Reagan gave the illegal Mexicans amnesty.

He also forced employers to file an I-9 Form so the Mexicans had to provide ID.

Now, the illegals are just providing fake ID to get a job.

The employer does withhold tax and social security that will never be repaid to these illegals.

The illegal Mexicans are leaving millions behind in the social security fund.

But if the illegals (mexican and others) get amnesty, which is what you and the RNC demand as necessary to get hispanic votes, then they WILL get social security, not to mention be eligible for medicaid, and to lawfully file for the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is poorly named, because it is a direct cash payment to people with dependents who don't make enough to pay any income tax.

They will only qualify for SS if they pay in for 40 quarters (10 years), no?

Yes, but every amnesty proposed so far has given them credit for all past payments WHILE they were illegal. And if they worked for a total of less than 40 quarters, then they still get treated the same as an American citizen who fails to acquire the required work duration. Or are you suggesting that illegals get special treatment, whereby they don't need to work as long as citizens?

[Bakseeda]

I feel so sorry for all my American friends and their electorate... The choices that they have for their next President is dismal.. Obama Hussein has been a walking talking disaster who was also voted in a second time which is a fact that the rest of the world laughs at. And now we are watching as the greatest nation on earth slowly votes in a grandmother... WHAT THE Frig is happening... Americans... You need someone strong, fit, someone who loves the USA with a passion... Not somebodies <deleted> Granny.. Where is the All American Putin..... Where is The Gengis Khan of the West.... Someone who WILL NOT take prisoners... But if as a Nation you all need your nappy changed... Vote for the Granny... My heart weeps for all true and patriotic Americans...

I bet you have no problem with voting for a grandfather/grandad. Why don't you just say you don't want a "woman" in the White House?

You call Hillary Clinton a woman..... you sick puppy..!!!

[Pinot]

I feel so sorry for all my American friends and their electorate... The choices that they have for their next President is dismal.. Obama Hussein has been a walking talking disaster who was also voted in a second time which is a fact that the rest of the world laughs at. And now we are watching as the greatest nation on earth slowly votes in a grandmother... WHAT THE Frig is happening... Americans... You need someone strong, fit, someone who loves the USA with a passion... Not somebodies <deleted> Granny.. Where is the All American Putin..... Where is The Gengis Khan of the West.... Someone who WILL NOT take prisoners... But if as a Nation you all need your nappy changed... Vote for the Granny... My heart weeps for all true and patriotic Americans...

I bet you have no problem with voting for a grandfather/grandad. Why don't you just say you don't want a "woman" in the White House?

You call Hillary Clinton a woman..... you sick puppy..!!!

This is what passes as discourse with the wingnuts. We need Hitler. That's maybe a little over the top. Putin! Yeah, that's the ticket. A strong man with dictatorial powers, a guy who WILL NOT take prisoners.

I suggest turning off Fox News for the day and going for a walk.

Jeesh!

[RidgeRunner]

Ronald Reagan gave the illegal Mexicans amnesty.

He also forced employers to file an I-9 Form so the Mexicans had to provide ID.

Now, the illegals are just providing fake ID to get a job.

The employer does withhold tax and social security that will never be repaid to these illegals.

The illegal Mexicans are leaving millions behind in the social security fund.

But if the illegals (mexican and others) get amnesty, which is what you and the RNC demand as necessary to get hispanic votes, then they WILL get social security, not to mention be eligible for medicaid, and to lawfully file for the Earned Income Tax Credit, which is poorly named, because it is a direct cash payment to people with dependents who don't make enough to pay any income tax.

They will only qualify for SS if they pay in for 40 quarters (10 years), no?

Yes, but every amnesty proposed so far has given them credit for all past payments WHILE they were illegal. And if they worked for a total of less than 40 quarters, then they still get treated the same as an American citizen who fails to acquire the required work duration. Or are you suggesting that illegals get special treatment, whereby they don't need to work as long as citizens?

I lived near Salinas and I know the Mexicans very well. They are a great culture, hard working, dependable, honest, god fearing folks. They love their families.

The Mexicans are in America for one reason. WE WANT THEM & WE NEED THEM. You really think a $45 an hour union guy picking your apples is a good idea, huh?

I think to myself, what would I do if I was born to an impoverished family, south of the border? Good paying jobs, just miles away.....

If they paid into social security for 10 years, let them have it. Some people are so cruel. Usually conservative christians.......

[RidgeRunner]

I feel so sorry for all my American friends and their electorate... The choices that they have for their next President is dismal.. Obama Hussein has been a walking talking disaster who was also voted in a second time which is a fact that the rest of the world laughs at. And now we are watching as the greatest nation on earth slowly votes in a grandmother... WHAT THE Frig is happening... Americans... You need someone strong, fit, someone who loves the USA with a passion... Not somebodies <deleted> Granny.. Where is the All American Putin..... Where is The Gengis Khan of the West.... Someone who WILL NOT take prisoners... But if as a Nation you all need your nappy changed... Vote for the Granny... My heart weeps for all true and patriotic Americans...

I bet you have no problem with voting for a grandfather/grandad. Why don't you just say you don't want a "woman" in the White House?

You call Hillary Clinton a woman..... you sick puppy..!!!

This is what passes as discourse with the wingnuts. We need Hitler. That's maybe a little over the top. Putin! Yeah, that's the ticket. A strong man with dictatorial powers, a guy who WILL NOT take prisoners.

I suggest turning off Fox News for the day and going for a walk.

Jeesh!

Yep. Off the charts with hate those FOX zombies. Hillary is a <deleted> granny?

By the way.....Grandpa Reagan, a grade B actor with Alzheimer's that bankrupted the country is their claim to fame.

[up2u2]

I lived near Salinas and I know the Mexicans very well. They are a great culture, hard working, dependable, honest, god fearing folks. They love their families.

The Mexicans are in America for one reason. WE WANT THEM & WE NEED THEM. You really think a $45 an hour union guy picking your apples is a good idea, huh?

I think to myself, what would I do if I was born to an impoverished family, south of the border? Good paying jobs, just miles away.....

If they paid into social security for 10 years, let them have it. Some people are so cruel. Usually conservative christians.......

Spot on Ridge. They are an exploited and under utilised asset to America that if unleashed would make trillions of dollars and increase America's prosperity enormously. You are dead right, hard working, reliable and bring an amazing culture and family values as an added bonus. It is these kind of people when given the opportunity make great nations.

[RidgeRunner]

I think everybody is for running a tight border and checking everybody but the badly needed laborers need to get thru.

It's BS that Mexico is sending their criminals to the USA. 99+% are hungry, hard workers that land jobs.

Sure, some Mexican criminals do come across. Just like U.S. Criminals that run to Mexico after the jail break or jump bail. A few bad ones do get thru. They always will.

[JAG]

I lived near Salinas and I know the Mexicans very well. They are a great culture, hard working, dependable, honest, god fearing folks. They love their families.

The Mexicans are in America for one reason. WE WANT THEM & WE NEED THEM. You really think a $45 an hour union guy picking your apples is a good idea, huh?

I think to myself, what would I do if I was born to an impoverished family, south of the border? Good paying jobs, just miles away.....

If they paid into social security for 10 years, let them have it. Some people are so cruel. Usually conservative christians.......

Spot on Ridge. They are an exploited and under utilised asset to America that if unleashed would make trillions of dollars and increase America's prosperity enormously. You are dead right, hard working, reliable and bring an amazing culture and family values as an added bonus. It is these kind of people when given the opportunity make great nations.

This is not really my fight - I'm not a US citizen, but I can't help pondering that the great expansion of the United States, which turned it into the great nation which it is was the result of immigration. If these"illegal Mexicans" are prepared to take huge risks to get into the US, work hard to support their family once they get in, pay taxes and "social security", and have a hard working reliable culture and strong family values, well aren't they exactly the sort of people who built the US some 150 years ago (skin tone excepted of course)?

As the man above said - It is these kind of people when given the opportunity make great nations. What happened to Emma Lazarus " "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".

My father was a historian, with a special interest in American History.He impressed upon me the things he believed made the USA different, freedom, democracy, tolerance and respect for individuals, and opportunity for all. These were what drew generations of migrants to its shores., and what made the USA special. I find it sad that those things which are to be admired in the USA seem to be being trampled on in the current Republican contest. If I were an American I would certainly be embarrassed by some of the "Trumpeting"!

But as I said, not my fight. Look on it as a hopelessly romantic view from outside.

Edited November 4, 2015 by JAG

[samuibeachcomber]

So the circus is in its final year,it does n't matter who wins,the people with real power are behind the scenes,unaccountable and pulling the strings.

[Usernames]

Then why haven't mexicans made a great nation out of Mexico, a country with a favorable climate, vast natural resources and wealth, and right next door to the largest economy in the world?

[Publicus]

The 3rd debate sure was chaotic that had nothing to do with the moderators and everything to do with the participants.

Paul Rand "I want to make Government so small you wont be able to see it". So what will he be presiding over as President? Nothing, a total unregulated Corporate 'free for all'. Will he be dismantling Copyright, Intellectual Property Law, Corporate Tax rebates, One super bank with no competition, Corporate R&D rebates, Food and Drug administration no regulation, Environmental Protection Agency totally unregulated environmental protections.

Fiorina removing ALL Government regulation that causes the problem in the first place. Well hold onto your hat Carly. The GFC was caused by the REMOVAL of Government regulations that is what CAUSED the GFC. Again what will she presiding over as President? Nothing, it will just be a Corporate profits 'free for all'.

In each and every key sector damaging America is the lack or removal of Government regulation and inaction that is at the core of the problem.

Each and everyone of them saying remove Government from peoples lives and in the next breath enacting Government legislation to correct problems.

How the American people can swallow this Right Wing foolish propaganda is beyond me.

Whoa....some Americans swallow it, not "the American people." Fewer and fewer Americans swallow the rightwing crap on this point and across the board. Look at the Bernie Sanders candidacy for instance. Your post jumped from the 3rd Republican debate to the US Government and regulation then to "the American people," so the leaps and bounds of logic and reasoning need some particular attention.

This is a year of self-discovery and self-revelation for and about the Republican party. Many new trends and developments in American society are manifesting in the Republican party this year. One of 'em is that virtually all of the Americans you're thinking of and about --the rightwingnutosphere-- now form the base of the Republican party. Which makes the Republican party the party of the past.

America's dinosaurs.

Although the points had been made many times in numerous recent threads, it's apparent not everyone got the memo, hence this post, written in the spirit of being informative; advisory.

[willyumiii]

The GOP is too self absorbed to realize that they are building their own coffin

The American people are paying attention to the circus and if the GOP can not prevent them from voting,

2016 may be the last election that the GOP is a factor in.

RIP to the GOP ( Greedy Old Pricks )

Don't let the door hit you on the way out..

and don't come back!

[willyumiii]

I think it is hilarious how some people throw around the word socialist.

-snip-

USA is the ONLY developed nation on the planet that did not have a national healthcare plan.

Does that make Canada, France, UK etc etc etc all communist? Where are our death squads??

The fear mongers always make me laugh.

Would you be talking about the failed/failing national health programs of Canada and the UK with long waiting lists and effective rationing? Or, perhaps, you'd be talking about the incredibly high taxes and prices of consumer goods that go to pay for this "free" failed health care?

The only thing I'd be afraid of is not getting health care when I needed it when it is "free". As Thatcher said, "Sooner or later you run out of other people's money".

When Canadian Premier Danny Harper headed to the US for his heart surgery, and on his own dime instead of government funds, he showed Canada's health care up for what it is. LINK

No matter how far the NHS slips or how much people bitch about it, they still defend it as the utopia of "developed countries".

Amazing.

BTW low income people in the US get "free" health care called Medicaid. People with a lot more money either get it from employment insurance, or aged Medicare options, or if they are rich they buy their own. What's unfair about that?

Cheers.

I love the definition of a 'successful' health system which appears to be paying twice as much for half the outcomes.

Yes folks, paying nearly twice as much in GDP for worse medical outcomes is the GOP gold standard of good economic policy.

Cue the tin foil hatters grumbling about over litigation and how the second ammendment will solve this problem too. And yes, it is all the migrants fault anyway.

Yes, but don't take away my (socialist) medicare. It's only socialist if I dont benefit!!!

The USA already has many socialist institutions.

This is my favorite to point out to all my conservative republican, sport fan friends who fear the word "Socialism":

[slerickson]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

[RidgeRunner]

Then why haven't mexicans made a great nation out of Mexico, a country with a favorable climate, vast natural resources and wealth, and right next door to the largest economy in the world?

That's a good point. Cross that line from San Diego into Mexico and BAM, it's another world. Poverty.

Sadly, Mexico suffers from very similar circumstances that hold Thailand back. The education system sucks and gangsters run the government / army / police.

The wealthy class like it that way and treat their poor like second class citizens.

Happily, the poor are now getting connected, revolting and are organising / taking control with their shear numbers.

Look what they did in Thailand. The despicable elite class can't win an election..

[chuckd]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

Let's go all the way back to 1776.

1. Presidents numbered 1 through 43 (7/4/1776 - 1/20/09) a total of 233 years, 8 months.

Accumulated national debt - $10,669,804,864,612 ($10.67 Trillion)

2. President number 44 (1/20/2009 - 11/4/2015) a total of 6 years 10+ months.

Increased national debt - $7,798,493,661,748 ($7.80 Trillion)

But let's blame the Republicans, shall we?

[RidgeRunner]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

Let's go all the way back to 1776.

1. Presidents numbered 1 through 43 (7/4/1776 - 1/20/09) a total of 233 years, 8 months.

Accumulated national debt - $10,669,804,864,612 ($10.67 Trillion)

2. President number 44 (1/20/2009 - 11/4/2015) a total of 6 years 10+ months.

Increased national debt - $7,798,493,661,748 ($7.80 Trillion)

But let's blame the Republicans, shall we?

The GOP seems to suffer from a bad case of amnesia. They don't remember 2008? It was a calamity, millions lost jobs, other millions lots homes, bank were failing, there were retirees watching the stock market drop almost 70% and they were jumping off roofs!

General Motors was even going bust. GW actually bailed them out.

So where does Obama debt really stand?

We agree Obama started with 10.6 Trillion in the debt.

Lets add 7 years of interest. about 1.75 Trillion.

Obamas 2009 budget was set by outgoing GW. Add 450 Billion for GW 2009 budget deficit according to Congressional Budget Office CBO.

The actual debt they left to Obama equals 12.9 Trillion.

Now Obama faced a near financial depression and had to fund enormous unemployment, housing/banking bailouts, and a big tax break stimulus package and fight 2 wars he didn't start. That's about 3 Trillion more right there.

Lets say the Obama debt realistically start after 15.9 Trillion.

Thats a fair number.

Edited November 4, 2015 by RidgeRunner

[Pinot]

Republican fiscal conservatism is code for don't give the poor people anything. Give the rich the tax breaks because they'll spend it and it will "trickle down" to the poor people. That's really all the Republicans bring to the table. The same "trickle down" bullshit that has shown to be ineffective and an economy killer.

Republicans must never be given the reigns of government ever again. They're incapable of governing. They don't want government to work.

I'm not worried about it. I see a crushing defeat coming in the next election. The end of the Republican party is in sight as the lemmings follow each other over the wingnut cliff.

[RidgeRunner]

Yea. That trickle down theory.

Give the money to the fat cats so they can then hire gardeners, maids, pool men and car detailers.

[chuckd]

Yea. That trickle down theory.

Give the money to the fat cats so they can then hire gardeners, maids, pool men and car detailers.

If you give them enough money, they can even set up their very own private internet server and hire all the workers using government funding.

They would probably have ample fat cat funds to set up the server in a basement bathroom of a multi-million dollar mansion in upstate New York.

Naw, that's the Democratic trickle-up theory at work.

[Publicus]

Only trickle down theory that's happening in this election is the Republicans felling their pants getting wet as they begin to see the election outcome in November 2016.

[lostboy]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

Let's go all the way back to 1776.

1. Presidents numbered 1 through 43 (7/4/1776 - 1/20/09) a total of 233 years, 8 months.

Accumulated national debt - $10,669,804,864,612 ($10.67 Trillion)

2. President number 44 (1/20/2009 - 11/4/2015) a total of 6 years 10+ months.

Increased national debt - $7,798,493,661,748 ($7.80 Trillion)

But let's blame the Republicans, shall we?

The past master of offering seemingly objective and innocuous information that misleads, obfuscates and confounds in service of some petty ideological point. Don't they teach economics in Texas Charles? Terms like relative value, Purchasing Power Parity or Inflation don't ring any bells? Or would actual real and accurate technical information not convey your point as well?

Raising debt to invest in infrastructure creates wealth. Using it to pay for operations and budget support is what the previous governments of Greece did and look what happened to them. Debt in itself is not evil but a necessary part of the financial system. Lots of Republicans including the 2nd most popular candidate, Trump, got rich on debt.

Simplistic is your schtick and I guess it has worked for you with your fellow travellers over the eons.

[ggt]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

Let's go all the way back to 1776.

1. Presidents numbered 1 through 43 (7/4/1776 - 1/20/09) a total of 233 years, 8 months.

Accumulated national debt - $10,669,804,864,612 ($10.67 Trillion)

2. President number 44 (1/20/2009 - 11/4/2015) a total of 6 years 10+ months.

Increased national debt - $7,798,493,661,748 ($7.80 Trillion)

But let's blame the Republicans, shall we?

Let's NOT blame the Republicans...

President Obama has signed a budget deal for the next two years that will raise the national debt ceiling from $18.5 trillion to $20 trillion, putting the US debt at almost twice the level it was when he first took office.

[RidgeRunner]

What you call chaos is actually a healthy democracy working properly...who ever said that the number of candidates for the highest office of the land should be limited to avoid chaos...

Each candidate brings something to the table...experience, passion, a wealth of knowledge, and ideas to reign in spending, reduce taxes, and address the immigration problem...

What have the Dems got...a socialist, a prevaricator...there is not a candidate among the Dems that will not continue reckless spending and taxing...and obstructing justice to protect their own...

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

Let's go all the way back to 1776.

1. Presidents numbered 1 through 43 (7/4/1776 - 1/20/09) a total of 233 years, 8 months.

Accumulated national debt - $10,669,804,864,612 ($10.67 Trillion)

2. President number 44 (1/20/2009 - 11/4/2015) a total of 6 years 10+ months.

Increased national debt - $7,798,493,661,748 ($7.80 Trillion)

But let's blame the Republicans, shall we?

Let's NOT blame the Republicans...

President Obama has signed a budget deal for the next two years that will raise the national debt ceiling from $18.5 trillion to $20 trillion, putting the US debt at almost twice the level it was when he first took office.

The Congressional Budget Office reports the 2015 Obama deficit of $426 Billion. Down $60 Billion from the previous year, marking the smallest deficit in Obamas tenure. The good news this will continue for a couple more years as the economy belatedly but fully rebounds from the 2008 GW recession.

I explained earlier that 15.9 trillion is really owned by the previous administrations.

Obama started with 10.6 Trillion in the debt.

+ 7 years of interest =1.75 Trillion.

+ 450 Billion for GW 2009 budget deficit.

800,000 jobs a month were being lost in 2009. The rescue of these people cost about $1 trillion.

Housing/banking bailouts, a big tax break stimulus package & 2 wars. That's about $3 Trillion.

Lets say the Obama debt realistically start after 15.9 Trillion.

Edited November 4, 2015 by RidgeRunner

[chuckd]

So the US election is a democratic process? I didn't know that. I always thought it was a sham.

Anyone that proffers it's the borrow and spend democrats creating the national debt is quoting FOX news talking point for dullards. Google a chart of the national debt during the presidencies of the past 50 years. Note Ronnie Reagen was big but so were the bushes.

Let's go all the way back to 1776.

1. Presidents numbered 1 through 43 (7/4/1776 - 1/20/09) a total of 233 years, 8 months.

Accumulated national debt - $10,669,804,864,612 ($10.67 Trillion)

2. President number 44 (1/20/2009 - 11/4/2015) a total of 6 years 10+ months.

Increased national debt - $7,798,493,661,748 ($7.80 Trillion)

But let's blame the Republicans, shall we?

The GOP seems to suffer from a bad case of amnesia. They don't remember 2008? It was a calamity, millions lost jobs, other millions lots homes, bank were failing, there were retirees watching the stock market drop almost 70% and they were jumping off roofs!

General Motors was even going bust. GW actually bailed them out.

So where does Obama debt really stand?

We agree Obama started with 10.6 Trillion in the debt.

Lets add 7 years of interest. about 1.75 Trillion.

Obamas 2009 budget was set by outgoing GW. Add 450 Billion for GW 2009 budget deficit according to Congressional Budget Office CBO.

The actual debt they left to Obama equals 12.9 Trillion.

Now Obama faced a near financial depression and had to fund enormous unemployment, housing/banking bailouts, and a big tax break stimulus package and fight 2 wars he didn't start. That's about 3 Trillion more right there.

Lets say the Obama debt realistically start after 15.9 Trillion.

Thats a fair number.

Sorry for the delay in responding but last night was late when I returned after driving several hours on dark, unlighted narrow roads in Isaan. It was simply too late to conjure up some thoughts in response to your post.

By the numbers...

1. The last two years of the Bush administration was when the sub-prime housing market crashed and caused the recession of 2007. This was brought about primarily by the Community Reinvestment Act of 1979 (CRA) which required lenders to follow federal government requirements for sub-prime loans to unqualified borrowers for the purchase of homes. The CRA was signed into law by Jimmy Carter and pushed by G. H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton administrations. Not so much by George W. Bush. He warned Congress about the potential problems facing the country because of this and was roundly ridiculed by Democratic members of Congress. However, the crash occurred on his watch regardless of his warnings.

2. The auto bailouts and the Troubled Asset Relief Programs (TARP) were initiated under the Bush administration.

TARP provided $475 Billion to stabilize the finance and banking industry due to the sub-prime mortgage crisis caused by the CRA. Only $426.4 Billion was spent in this effort. By the way, this is the only government program in recorded history that made a profit, recovering $441.7 Billion on a total investment of $426.4 Billion.

The auto bailout was a Congressional response to a request from the big three auto makers for a $50 Billion bailout. Congress approved a $25 Billion loan, which was further reduced to $17.4 Billion by President Bush. The auto manufacturers received an additional $25 Billion after Obama was sworn in to the office. This program did not make a profit.

3. The national debt on January 20, 2001, when Bush assumed office stood at $5.7 Trillion. When he left office eight years later the national debt stood at $10.68 Trillion, an increase of some $5.1 Trillion. Since you somehow believe interest on preceding debt should not be counted against an incumbent, how much do you feel Bush's $5.1 Trillion should be discounted due to paying interest on previous debt. Let's use your system and just say $1 Trillion. That means, according to your national debt accounting system, the starting point for G.W. should be $6.7 Trillion, not the $5.7 Trillion starting point the rest of the world agrees with.

4. Now let's look at the 2009 budget, which you seem to believe Bush was responsible for. For the record, the Pelosi/Reid Congress that was in session during the last two years of the Bush administration did not pass a budget at all for 2009. They ran the government on continuing resolutions until Obama was inaugurated and then worked on the 2009 budget bill.

The Bush administration's 2009 budget request called for revenue of $2.7 Trillion, expenditures of $3.107 Trillion with an ensuing deficit of $407 Billion.

The actualities for the 2009 fiscal year were revenue in the amount of $2.195 Trillion, expenditures of $3.518 Trillion with a subsequent deficit of $1.413 Trillion. Obama, Reid and Pelosi raised the deficit by over $1 Trillion from the original Bush request with President Obama signing the 2009 budget bill into law in April 2009.

5. Finally the 2008 recession was declared officially over in June 2009, some five months after Obama took office. This administration is now officially in the midst of the longest, slowest recovery in the history of the US, going on seven years.

Hardly a glowing legacy for somebody so desperate to have one.

Edited November 5, 2015 by chuckd

[RidgeRunner]

You really want to pin the interest payments on the $10.6 trillion debt on Obama? Thats a bit insincere.

And you want to pin the several trillion $ that Obama spent cleaning up the GW recession?

Now, your main gripe with Obama is he didn't clean up they GW fiasco fast enough?

Reasonable people will say Obamas debt should begin at anything over $15.9 trillion.

Sometimes I wonder how Obama would have done if he hadn't inherited the 2 wars, stock market crash 70%, housing crisis, unemployment rate over 10%, the banks failing and 15.9 trillion debt.

Edited November 5, 2015 by RidgeRunner

[chuckd]

You really want to pin the interest payments on the $10.6 trillion debt on Obama? Thats a bit insincere.

And you want to pin the several trillion $ that Obama spent cleaning up the GW recession?

Now, your main gripe with Obama is he didn't clean up they GW fiasco fast enough?

Reasonable people will say Obamas debt should begin at anything over $15.9 trillion.

Sometimes I wonder how Obama would have done if he hadn't inherited the 2 wars, stock market crash 70%, housing crisis, unemployment rate over 10%, the banks failing and 15.9 trillion debt.

"Reasonable people will say Obamas debt should begin at anything over $15.9 trillion."

Sorry, but I must take exception to this statement. Democrats and Obama supporters will make the claim.

Most everybody else will dismiss it out of hand.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Sometimes I wonder how Obama would have done if he hadn't inherited the 2 wars, stock market crash 70%, housing crisis, unemployment rate over 10%, the banks failing and 15.9 trillion debt."

​Wonder no more. IMHO he would have failed just as miserably either way. He would still be the most expensive President in history as it will likely turn out.