Child Overstay Options and Passport Renewal

[doublephil]

Hi

I am looking for some expert advice please

My grand-daughter is 5 years old, has British passport and lives in Thailand

She entered Thailand on 30 day visa exempt at BKK airport - but now has 9 month overstay.
I understand already they don't normally enforce overstay penalties, etc. for children

1.Her British passport will expire in January
Can the passport renewal be done in BKK?
If so, can her father do it by himself? - or does she need to go with him?

2.In the meantime her stay in Thailand must be made legal -

Her father is Thai nationality but her mother is not Thai nationality
Can her Thai father get her some kind of extension at Chiang Mai immigration?
If so, does she need to clear the overstay first by doing a trip out/in at a border crossing such as Mae Sai?

Would they allow it with a passport just about to expire? - or would they need to wait for new passport?

Or

Would they need to get a visa at a nearby embassy/consulate?
If so - what kind of visa? - The nearest embassy would be Vientiane from northern Thailand. Would my grand-daughter need to go? - or can it be done just by her father? I assume the new passport would be essential for this option?

Thanks for any advice

[Eclipse]

The child is Thai so why not get her a Thai ID Card and a Thai Passport.

UK Passports can be applied for in Bangkok.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

Edited November 11, 2015 by Eclipse

[oncearugge]

British passports cannot be renewed at the Embassy. Open the link for detail.

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

An extension of stay can be obtained from immigration.

The child' father should obtain a Thai passport for his daughter.

Once the Thai passport has been obtained the child and one of her parents need to exit Thailand using the British passport, fly to a nearby country and return using the Thai passport to enter the country.

[doublephil]

Just to clarify if it is not clear

The child is a British citizen - not Thai. She was not born in Thailand and her mother is not Thai - only her father.

She stays in Thailand with her Thai father

Obtaining Thai citizenship and Thai passport for her is difficult - and so far all attempts have failed.

Therefore she needs to clear her overstay and get the correct permission to stay in Thailand

It is just complicated a bit by her British passport needing renewal at the same time

I would appreciate advice about how to achieve what is required now - getting her Thai nationality is a longer term goal

[oncearugge]

Just to clarify if it is not clear

The child is a British citizen - not Thai. She was not born in Thailand and her mother is not Thai - only her father.

She stays in Thailand with her Thai father

Obtaining Thai citizenship and Thai passport for her is difficult - and so far all attempts have failed.

Therefore she needs to clear her overstay and get the correct permission to stay in Thailand

It is just complicated a bit by her British passport needing renewal at the same time

I would appreciate advice about how to achieve what is required now - getting her Thai nationality is a longer term goal

If the child has a Thai Father she IS Thai

Did anyone bother to register her birth with the Thai Embassy in the country where the child was born?

1. Passport? Open the link I just provided and follow the instructions.

2. Try for an extension of stay. It may be given if her birth certificate is available which names the Thai Farther.

Nothing "bad " will happen to the child if she continues to overstay. Does she attend school ? if so is the school Private or State run ?

Edited November 11, 2015 by oncearugge

[doublephil]

Being the natural father does not automatically make him the legal father in Thai law.

The Thai Embassy in the country where she was born has already refused to register her and has refused to process an application for Thai nationality. Their excuse was that the child must give written confirmation of consent - and, of course, she is still far too young to be able to give that confirmation.

The immediate issue is how to clear her overstay and allow her to be in Thailand legally on a long term basis

[ubonjoe]

She can get a one year extension of stay at immigration as a returning Thai national. Proof that her farther is Thai will be needed.

Her birth certificate from the country where she was born will be be enough if it shows him as .her father and proof he is Thai.

Since she is under 15 immigration may clear her overstay and do the extension. Her father should check with the local immigration office to see if they will do it.

They will only do the extension until January if that is when her passport expires. Getting her a new UK passport is not something I am that familiar with but as far as I know her mother may need to be involved to do it..

Getting the Thai birth certificate will be difficult unless her mother is involved. Only the embassy in London can issue the birth certificate it that is where she was born. It is possible to apply for the birth certificate at the consular affairs department in Bangkok and they will forward the application to London.

The requirements for registering a birth can be found here on the embassy website. http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/191

[siliconvalley]

Dear Grandfather.

My heart bleeds for you. I can feel your pain and desperation. I wish you the best life has to offer. If the father is Thai, have the mother get with the Thai embassy to recognize her as a Thai Citizen. No visa required. But since this is Thailand, if she wasn't born here, I hope it isn't too expensive. The question is, does paternity mean citizenship?

[doublephil]

Thanks Ubon Joe - though actually she was born in Myanmar - and it was the Thai embassy in Yangon that refused to register her birth. There was no problem to register her birth at British embassy. It is her father that is dual British + Thai - her mother is Myanmar nationality.

She has both Myanmar and British birth certificates - both show the father's name. Are you saying he can use one of these to show she is a dependent of Thai citizen and get a 1 year extension at CM immigration?

[ubonjoe]

Thanks Ubon Joe - though actually she was born in Myanmar - and it was the Thai embassy in Yangon that refused to register her birth. There was no problem to register her birth at British embassy. It is her father that is dual British + Thai - her mother is Myanmar nationality.

She has both Myanmar and British birth certificates - both show the father's name. Are you saying he can use one of these to show she is a dependent of Thai citizen and get a 1 year extension at CM immigration?

The Thai birth certificate will the need to be issued by the embassy in Yangon but as a I wrote before the application can be done here. Yangon embassy requirements in Thai is here. http://www.thaiembassy.org/yangon/th/services/21973-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A3%7C%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%93%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A3.html

Yes the child is child is eligible for a one year extension.

Do you have a translation of her Myanmar birth certificate to English. If yes I would take both it and the UK one to immigration. The father will need his house book and ID card to prove he is Thai.

[doublephil]

Thanks for the advice. Do you have any contact information for the Consular Affairs department? We are all in Chiang Mai so it would be a good idea to check with them first before making a trip to Bangkok

[ubonjoe]

Contact for consular affairs is here in Thai. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/organize/19719-%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%9C%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88-%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A8%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%97%E0%B9%8C-%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%A5%E0%B9%8C.html

[bwpage3]

I remember reading somewhere that there is NO overstay for children until they reach the age of 15.

[ubonjoe]

I remember reading somewhere that there is NO overstay for children until they reach the age of 15.

They still are on overstay and will get a stamp for it but they do not pay the overstay fine.

Just because they don't pay a fine it does not mean they do not need a visa or extension to stay here.

[kiwikeith]

Just to clarify if it is not clear

The child is a British citizen - not Thai. She was not born in Thailand and her mother is not Thai - only her father.

She stays in Thailand with her Thai father

Obtaining Thai citizenship and Thai passport for her is difficult - and so far all attempts have failed.

Therefore she needs to clear her overstay and get the correct permission to stay in Thailand

It is just complicated a bit by her British passport needing renewal at the same time

I would appreciate advice about how to achieve what is required now - getting her Thai nationality is a longer term goal

If her mother was Thai no problem, Thai embassy told me this when I got a Thai passport for my son.

They said they believe the Thai mother and need to site birth certificate but with father thai its a bit harder.

You need the hospital birth certificate and possibly more paper work maybe DNA.

The Thai embassy will give you a list of what you need.for a Thai passport.

Then no more problems.

[chickenrunCM]

1 parent thai = child is Thai = cant be on overstay!

for passports both parents have to sign the application

[ubonjoe]

If a person with Thai nationality enters the country with a passport from another country they fall under the same immigration rules as anybody else. They will be fined for an overstay if they are over the age of 15.

The issue is not getting the child a passport it is establishing their Thai nationality by getting a Thai birth certificate.

[offset]

If a person with Thai nationality enters the country with a passport from another country they fall under the same immigration rules as anybody else. They will be fined for an overstay if they are over the age of 15.

The issue is not getting the child a passport it is establishing their Thai nationality by getting a Thai birth certificate.

I think that the main problem is getting the father legally accepted as the father of the child has now the Thai legal system does not accept the fathers name on the birth certificate unless married to the mother and I am not sure how easy it is to get a Thai birth certificate when born outside of Thailand with a non Thai mother

[chickenrunCM]

If a person with Thai nationality enters the country with a passport from another country they fall under the same immigration rules as anybody else. They will be fined for an overstay if they are over the age of 15.

The issue is not getting the child a passport it is establishing their Thai nationality by getting a Thai birth certificate.

what thai person ever got fined for overstay in Thailand?

this isn´t possible!

nobody can overstay in his home country

Thai legal system is based on Anglo-Saxon System,

you even can pass the border with no passport and you not breaking a law in your home country.

a thai national would even enter thailand through passport control with a ID card or birth certificate

or any proof of nationality.

but this is of course theory because there is a need for a passport in the country you come from.

An overstay can only be if you need a permission (Visa) for entering Thailand, but a Thai person doesn´t need this!

[ubonjoe]

If a person with Thai nationality enters the country with a passport from another country they fall under the same immigration rules as anybody else. They will be fined for an overstay if they are over the age of 15.

The issue is not getting the child a passport it is establishing their Thai nationality by getting a Thai birth certificate.

what thai person ever got fined for overstay in Thailand?

this isn´t possible!

nobody can overstay in his home country

Thai legal system is based on Anglo-Saxon System,

you even can pass the border with no passport and you not breaking a law in your home country.

a thai national would even enter thailand through passport control with a ID card or birth certificate

or any proof of nationality.

but this is of course theory because there is a need for a passport in the country you come from.

An overstay can only be if you need a permission (Visa) for entering Thailand, but a Thai person doesn´t need this!

There have been many Thai's fined for an overstay because a non Thai passport was used to enter the country. Perhaps you should do a search of forum to find some of the topics about it.

The only time a Thai can enter the country without a passport is if they have a border pass they used to enter a neighboring country.

[blackcab]

If a person with Thai nationality enters the country with a passport from another country they fall under the same immigration rules as anybody else. They will be fined for an overstay if they are over the age of 15.

The issue is not getting the child a passport it is establishing their Thai nationality by getting a Thai birth certificate.

what thai person ever got fined for overstay in Thailand?

this isn´t possible!

nobody can overstay in his home country

Thai legal system is based on Anglo-Saxon System,

you even can pass the border with no passport and you not breaking a law in your home country.

a thai national would even enter thailand through passport control with a ID card or birth certificate

or any proof of nationality.

but this is of course theory because there is a need for a passport in the country you come from.

An overstay can only be if you need a permission (Visa) for entering Thailand, but a Thai person doesn´t need this!

There have been many Thai's fined for an overstay because a non Thai passport was used to enter the country. Perhaps you should do a search of forum to find some of the topics about it.

The only time a Thai can enter the country without a passport is if they have a border pass they used to enter a neighboring country.

What happens if they refuse to (or can not) pay? Do they put a Thai person in prison? If so, do they deport them afterwards?

[ubonjoe]

If a person with Thai nationality enters the country with a passport from another country they fall under the same immigration rules as anybody else. They will be fined for an overstay if they are over the age of 15.

The issue is not getting the child a passport it is establishing their Thai nationality by getting a Thai birth certificate.

what thai person ever got fined for overstay in Thailand?

this isn´t possible!

nobody can overstay in his home country

Thai legal system is based on Anglo-Saxon System,

you even can pass the border with no passport and you not breaking a law in your home country.

a thai national would even enter thailand through passport control with a ID card or birth certificate

or any proof of nationality.

but this is of course theory because there is a need for a passport in the country you come from.

An overstay can only be if you need a permission (Visa) for entering Thailand, but a Thai person doesn´t need this!

There have been many Thai's fined for an overstay because a non Thai passport was used to enter the country. Perhaps you should do a search of forum to find some of the topics about it.

The only time a Thai can enter the country without a passport is if they have a border pass they used to enter a neighboring country.

What happens if they refuse to (or can not) pay? Do they put a Thai person in prison? If so, do they deport them afterwards?

I don't recall any reports of anybody trying that. Most just paid the fine. I certain some tried to argue with immigration abut it but lost and just paid the fine.

[mrwebb8825]

Seriously?? A 5 year old child has a passport? They do that in the UK? I'm a little shocked because an American child can't have a passport until they are 16 (?). They usually attach a "rider" onto the parents passport with the child's picture and information.

[oncearugge]

Seriously?? A 5 year old child has a passport? They do that in the UK? I'm a little shocked because an American child can't have a passport until they are 16 (?). They usually attach a "rider" onto the parents passport with the child's picture and information.

I wonder where you got that information ?

Instructions for obtaining a child's US passport in the link

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/passports_children.html