US B-52 bombers fly near disputed South China Sea islands

[craigt3365]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

Delusional.....China thinks above that

No, not at all China has sent Navy ships to international waters off Alaska in last few days, as reported by CNN !

http://edition.cnn.c...aska-us-waters/

And they were allowed safe transit without being warned off. Even though it is internationally recognized as being US territory. Maybe the US should start warning off Chinese transports from now on? Tit for tat isn't a good thing though. Do like the US, be above it.

[eggers]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You answered your own question. The US is not flying into Chinese territorial waters. Legally speaking.

The international court has taken on this case, a decision next year, and the Chinese have already rejected their jurisdiction. What can you do?

Indeed, Indonesia yesterday told the CCP Dictators in Beijing to quit their claims against the Natuna Island archipelago at the southern end of the 9-dash line or Jakarta will go to the Hague too, same as the Philippines did in 2013 with strong US encouragement.

The Phils have their own legal team in the Hague but they also hired the ICLOS high powered Washington-Boston firm of Foley & Hoag. The Court said Beijing's statement it does not recognise the Court is no matter, that the High Tribunal on the international Convention on the Law of the Sea does have jurisdiction. These Chinese and Communist Party Boyz are absolute that they are the law and that's all there is to it. Somebody's gonna have to smack 'em between the eyes with a 2x4 to get their attention.

The want to take the dozens of natural and artificial islands in the SCS and make Naval and Air Force bases of 'em. That's their international law of the sea and of overflight so they're going to have to be more than spanked. The CCP Dictators are revanchist and irredentist which is fatal to the self and tragically to anyone near 'em.

Now see China has sent Navy ships to coast of Alaska. http://edition.cnn.c...aska-us-waters/ So it's going to be nothing but 'gamesmanship' by two big nations flexing their muscles , whilst the small Asian countries will be caught in middle & The International Court hearing will be dragged out over a long period. Just senseless.... as said, requires UN or International Court to act quickly to defuse situation, so pressure needs to be put on both organisations to deal with the issue.

[craigt3365]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You answered your own question. The US is not flying into Chinese territorial waters. Legally speaking.

The international court has taken on this case, a decision next year, and the Chinese have already rejected their jurisdiction. What can you do?

Believe US B52 flew over Spratly Islands, so guess the law on that is 'cloudy'?

Just read China has now sent warships off the coast of Alaska.... now, it's all about gamesmanship & makes no sense; as said won't help to resolve the issue & all the small Asian claimant countries will be affected & caught up in a show of muscle by US & China!!

"ownership" of these islands is cloudy. A variety of countries are claiming them. China is no where near these islands. So their claim is a bit unjustified. And even if there were no ownership issues, transit through these waters is free to all according to international laws. Ones China doesn't seem to care about.

[Naam]

In less than two weeks the United States has asserted the International Law of the Sea and the freedom of navigation and flight in international air space.

The two B-52s were also a statement to the CCP Boyz in Beijing to quit their already announced plans (in 2013) to declare an Air Defense Identification Zone over the area of the 9-dash line in the SCS.

The US in late 2013 immediately flew two B-52s through a suddenly announced ADIZ over the Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu to the Boyz) which the CCP claims are theirs but which are possessed by Japan to include legal titles and deeds. Since then the Senkaku ADIZ (Diaoyutai) has become aerial Swiss cheese because the US, Japan, South Korean air forces fly through it unannounced and without the permission of the CCP Boyz on a regular basis. This is so after a lot of threats by the Boyz of this that and the other defense thing if anyone dared violate the zone The Boyz should know from this back then to now they can expect the same in the SCS if they did go ahead with that self embarrassing plan too.

These guyz really believe they are masters of the universe and that no one has any standing or right to dare to contradict them. They truly believe all they have to do is to say jump and the world asks how high. The Dictators of Beijing are in for some serious conflicts unless they simply decide to make a "temporary" strategic stand down. They could bloody the nose of the USN but the Boyz would get their face smashed in in response.

Really?

Where were the legal titles and deeds issued?

Chanote from a real estate agent in Bangkok?

In less than two weeks the United States has asserted the International Law of the Sea and the freedom of navigation and flight in international air space.

"asserted"

[anon4546543]

Publicus, please mate get real. Even as we speak, the Chinese are still building an outer defence fortress. Did a navy ship or some blind bomb obsolete bomber change what is happening? When these atolls are up to full capacity, do you think anyone would attempt this stunt again? And I remember when the US constantly tested the international waters of Vietnam. After 55,000 dead and hundreds of thousands suffering post war trauma and a humiliating withdrawal, the US now challenges China with a fly by and one navy ship. I guess you think China is Quaking. (not)

[Baerboxer]

To Publicus,, You may think that the Chinese are a bunch of "klutzes and they speak baloney"). All that does is denote your racial heritage. It does not answer my question, will fly overs and a few sail byes stop the Chinese from turning these atolls into huge military bases. The Chinese do not think about today, they think about decades into the future. And my question still remains, will the US go to war over these islands? Will the US try to impose sanctions on China, when China owns all of the bonds for US debt? The Chinese have already won this set piece in the big chess board of international supremacy, a few fly byes by an aircraft that is obsolete will make no difference. Too little too late.

The US has a history of sailing into areas that are contested like this. As reported in a link above. If somebody didn't do this, can you imagine how many areas would be closed off? Not good for international travel and trade. We'd be back to the era of pirates.

Correct.

If no one stands up for what's right, some countries will simply make up their own rules and enforce them.

The US hasn't breached Chinese air space or territorial waters. It is perfectly within its legal rights and as acted in accordance with those rights.

In doing so, the US supports the notions of UN, International Court, respect for International Law and treaties.

The US is not attempting to make its own rules up to grab land and sea that it's not entitled to. But China is. No one else has the capability to stand up to the bully in the area, so the US does. Soon Japan will re-arm and then China will have another foil.

[bdenner]

What interests me most with this article is that the olde 'War Horse (B52 BUFF)' is still in service. Dale Brown must have pen to paper already being inspired for with another novel.

[cdnvic]

What interests me most with this article is that the olde 'War Horse (B52 BUFF)' is still in service. Dale Brown must have pen to paper already being inspired for with another novel.

Hope he does a more convincing job than he did in Flight of the Old Dog where he made the B52 a stealth bomber.

[Publicus]

@Publicus, please stop referring to the Chinese as 'The Boyz'. You do it time and time again. It is actually against forum rules, just as referring to Thaksin by some fake name is also not allowed. Grow up and please stop using these teenage boy references.

Hey there might be more to it than you'd care to think or believe....

China says South China Sea island building to finish soon ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833227-china-says-south-china-sea-island-building-to-finish-soon/

The week before last SecDef Ashton Carter in Singapore told the CCP Boyz in Beijing to quit ... Edited by Publicus ... 2015 Thai Visa thaivisa.com;

Think this might be the second occasion of your having commented or requested about this or maybe I've missed another here or there also.

Been using the term Boyz of Beijing as such for several years here at TVF. There are other like or similar terms around TVF, such as 'fanboys' and 'rednecks' or other similar ones such as 'USA warmongers," "policeman of the world' and such. It'd be tough tho to find anything about this in the rules or the common or generally accepted practices of posters around these parts.

Now, speaking in an academic sense only, and for purposes of edification only, if someone wrote "Toxin" it rightfully gets called out and put out. I'd bet if I wrote Xi Jinpingpong each time I referred to the top mutt of the CCP who always has the same dogface there would very likely be an official website response of some sort. One never knows absolutely about these things but that would be my sense of it.

Kindly don't think my term Boyz of Beijing is not considered. I'd long ago considered others. such as....

Boyz 'N the Hutong

Bad Boys of Beijing (very hot rock group in clubs so that kinda kills the idea)

Rickshaw Boys

(Xiangzi, also a popular Chinese movie there of real life today duplicating and wishing back the wonderful dayze of yesteryear)

http://www.china.org.cn/english/Life/60055.htm

Torpedo Boyz (which I passed over due to risk of offending Australian Olympic swimming glories)

Justus Boyz

Suicide Boyz

Poshter Boyz

and of course, Dough Boyz.

Hopefully you and any other who might be overly focused on ordinary terminology used in a derogatory context and meaning are still not into the spirit of things, you might want to use the TVF Ignore function. That's why each of use has it.

Hopefully however we can all swim in the same water together (even when some go off the deep end on a regular basis). After all, the CCP was a menace in the hood long before the movie. Gangsta thugs in business suits that they are.

[Publicus]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

Delusional.....China thinks above that

No, not at all China has sent Navy ships to international waters off Alaska in last few days, as reported by CNN !

http://edition.cnn.c...aska-us-waters/

Yes, and from your link..

This is a first for Chinese naval ships -- and the transit took place while President Barack Obama was in Alaska.

It is OTT for a foreign government to do because it is a conscious and direct affront to the POTUS who as everyone well knows is CinC.

So the response of the White House to what it had already decided to initiate, i.e., the USN patrols within SCS areas claimed by CCP as its territory, concerned the precise timing to deploy the Lassen. Consequently the USS Lassen DDG 82 was deployed to the Zubi and Mischief Reefs of the Spratly Islands while CCP Chairman Xi Xinping was conducting the 5th Plenary Meeting of the CCP Central Committee in their giant Zhongnanhai walled up high complex in central Beijing, at which face is far and away number one.

Now SecDef Ashton Carter and the Joint Chiefs of Staff got Prez Obama's green light to deploy two USAF B-52 nuclear capable (but unarmed) bombers over the Spratly Islands, called the Nansha Islands by the CCP Boyz, the week before three meetings of heads of governments/state, the G-20 Sunday and Monday in Turkey, followed immediately by the East Asia Forum in Manila, followed immediately by the Asean Forum in Kuala Lumpur.

Chairman Xi just got his face put up inside where the sun don't shine to be reunited with the rest of his head up there, which is along the lines of what he and the PLA Navy deserve, but only some of what can yet come if the Dictators in Beijing don't start to get main idea. Which is that the United States throughout the 20th century has always objected in active ways to excessive territorial claims by any nation, on land, over the seas or in the skies in instances of international law, practices, conventions, norms and the like.

In Washington this has nothing to do with CCP sovereignty. This is the case despite the CCP Dictators whining and bellowing about their sacred national sovereignty blah blah blurp blurp. The US has always said the SCS claims of sovereignty are among the disputants and are up to them to settle. The US takes no position on claims of sovereignty in the SCS. The United States is involved in issues of excessive territorial claims in an international body of water that is a $5 Trillion goods worth of international waterway for all nations to include the USA.

The legal beagles elsewhere who believe the United States is forfeiting its legal standing by conducting routine innocent passage (absent military activities by the Lassen or the B-52s) or by not challenging CCP national sovereignty also miss the central point that this is entirely about CCP excessive territorial claims, not CCP national sovereignty issues and not about internationally recognised and already existing CCP territorial waters. This is about new territorial claims by the CCP that have no consensus or acceptance by anyone outside of Beijing.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Publicus

[eggers]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

Delusional.....China thinks above that

No, not at all China has sent Navy ships to international waters off Alaska in last few days, as reported by CNN !

http://edition.cnn.c...aska-us-waters/

Yes, and from your link..

This is a first for Chinese naval ships -- and the transit took place while President Barack Obama was in Alaska.

It is OTT for a foreign government to do because it is a conscious and direct affront to the POTUS who as everyone well knows is CinC.

So the response of the White House to what it had already decided to initiate, i.e., the USN patrols within SCS areas claimed by CCP as its territory, concerned the precise timing to deploy the Lassen. Consequently the USS Lassen DDG 82 was deployed to the Zubi and Mischief Reefs of the Spratly Islands while CCP Chairman Xi Xinping was conducting the 5th Plenary Meeting of the CCP Central Committee in their giant Zhongnanhai walled up high complex in central Beijing, at which face is far and away number one.

Now SecDef Ashton Carter and the Joint Chiefs of Staff got Prez Obama's green light to deploy two USAF B-52 nuclear capable (but unarmed) bombers over the Spratly Islands, called the Nansha Islands by the CCP Boyz, the week before three meetings of heads of governments/state, the G-20 Sunday and Monday in Turkey, followed immediately by the East Asia Forum in Manila, followed immediately by the Asean Forum in Kuala Lumpur.

Chairman Xi just got his face put up inside where the sun don't shine to be reunited with the rest of his head up there, which is along the lines of what he and the PLA Navy deserve, but only some of what can yet come if the Dictators in Beijing don't start to get main idea. Which is that the United States throughout the 20th century has always objected in active ways to excessive territorial claims by any nation, on land, over the seas or in the skies in instances of international law, practices, conventions, norms and the like.

In Washington this has nothing to do with CCP sovereignty. This is the case despite the CCP Dictators whining and bellowing about their sacred national sovereignty blah blah blurp blurp. The US has always said the SCS territorial claims are among the disputants and are up to them to settle. The US takes no position on claims of sovereignty in the SCS. The United States is involved in issues of excessive territorial claims in an international body of water that is an international waterway for all nations to include the USA.

The legal beagles elsewhere who believe the United States is forfeiting its legal standing by conducting routine innocent passage (absent military activities by the Lassen or the B-52s) or by not challenging CCP national sovereignty also miss the central point that this is entirely about CCP excessive territorial claims, not CCP national sovereignty issues and not about internationally recognised and already existing CCP territorial waters. This is about new territorial claims by the CCP that have no consensus or acceptance by anyone outside of Beijing.

Irrespective of your negative comments towards China, the point still remains the matter should be resolved in either UN or International Court,not by the actions of US. Likely, we'll agree to disagree. Thanks appreciated your comments.

[FritsSikkink]

And why did they not fly over the islands ?

yeah, nice and low. International waters and airspace after all.

Push them, US. Push them hard.

warmongers

[Publicus]

And why did they not fly over the islands ?

They are difficult to replace these days, since the last production run was in 1963. Maybe they should have buzzed them at 100 feet with some B-2, given how much the taxpayers paid for them.

I had a Canadian lad ask me the other day why the US thought it had to be the world's policeman.

Which may beg the question did the CCP have a bomber in 1963....

1973...

1983....

2003 sort of a bomber thing that got up into the air to some height....sometimes for some time but not much time...

2013 just came and went.....

................

CCP Dictators like to be loud and belligerent not to mention pushy but they still don't have any big sticks to show anybody much less to carry around with 'em.

The 'inscrutable' thing doesn't work any more if it ever did succeed, which it did not. It wuz all blue smoke and mirrors. Still is, always will be until they catch up with reality.

[Publicus]

http://edition.cnn.c...aska-us-waters/

No, not at all China has sent Navy ships to international waters off Alaska in last few days, as reported by CNN !

Yes, and from your link..

This is a first for Chinese naval ships -- and the transit took place while President Barack Obama was in Alaska.

It is OTT for a foreign government to do because it is a conscious and direct affront to the POTUS who as everyone well knows is CinC.

So the response of the White House to what it had already decided to initiate, i.e., the USN patrols within SCS areas claimed by CCP as its territory, concerned the precise timing to deploy the Lassen. Consequently the USS Lassen DDG 82 was deployed to the Zubi and Mischief Reefs of the Spratly Islands while CCP Chairman Xi Xinping was conducting the 5th Plenary Meeting of the CCP Central Committee in their giant Zhongnanhai walled up high complex in central Beijing, at which face is far and away number one.

Now SecDef Ashton Carter and the Joint Chiefs of Staff got Prez Obama's green light to deploy two USAF B-52 nuclear capable (but unarmed) bombers over the Spratly Islands, called the Nansha Islands by the CCP Boyz, the week before three meetings of heads of governments/state, the G-20 Sunday and Monday in Turkey, followed immediately by the East Asia Forum in Manila, followed immediately by the Asean Forum in Kuala Lumpur.

Chairman Xi just got his face put up inside where the sun don't shine to be reunited with the rest of his head up there, which is along the lines of what he and the PLA Navy deserve, but only some of what can yet come if the Dictators in Beijing don't start to get main idea. Which is that the United States throughout the 20th century has always objected in active ways to excessive territorial claims by any nation, on land, over the seas or in the skies in instances of international law, practices, conventions, norms and the like.

In Washington this has nothing to do with CCP sovereignty. This is the case despite the CCP Dictators whining and bellowing about their sacred national sovereignty blah blah blurp blurp. The US has always said the SCS territorial claims are among the disputants and are up to them to settle. The US takes no position on claims of sovereignty in the SCS. The United States is involved in issues of excessive territorial claims in an international body of water that is an international waterway for all nations to include the USA.

The legal beagles elsewhere who believe the United States is forfeiting its legal standing by conducting routine innocent passage (absent military activities by the Lassen or the B-52s) or by not challenging CCP national sovereignty also miss the central point that this is entirely about CCP excessive territorial claims, not CCP national sovereignty issues and not about internationally recognised and already existing CCP territorial waters. This is about new territorial claims by the CCP that have no consensus or acceptance by anyone outside of Beijing.

Irrespective of your negative comments towards China, the point still remains the matter should be resolved in either UN or International Court,not by the actions of US. Likely, we'll agree to disagree. Thanks appreciated your comments.

Regret waking you Mr. Chamberlain prime minister sir but there's a new report from the foreign ministry to you here at Number 10 directly.

Here it is sir (turns on bedside lamp light)....

Beijing won't accept Hague court's ruling on arbitration

PUBLISHED

OCT 31, 2015

SINGAPORE STRAITS-TIMES

China has rejected an international court's decision to allow arbitration on South China Sea claims brought forth by the Philippines, saying it is "null and void, and has no binding effect on China".

The Foreign Ministry, in a statement yesterday, stressed that when it comes to issues of territorial sovereignty and maritime rights, Beijing will not accept any solution imposed on it, or any unilateral resort to a third-party dispute settlement.

It also accused Manila of political provocation and of trying to "negate China's territorial sovereignty".

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/beijing-wont-accept-hague-courts-ruling-on-arbitration

It looks sir that you'll need to tender your resignation and to thereby dissolve your pathetic government.

Yes, it is true prime minister honourable sir that the German Chancellor China did sign the International Convention on the International Law of the Sea. However, honourable prime minister, sir, the Chinese government at the time attached a proviso caveat statement to it. They said they did not have to abide by or respect any part of the Convention they did not agree with.

You do remember that part of it sir, correct?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meanwhile, in the interests of the education and the enlightenment of to whom it does concern....

Observers are rightly skeptical that a resolution of the competing claims in the South China Sea will be achieved through international legal means alone. As has been wryly observed, international law is to law as professional wrestling is to wrestling: no one mistakes it for the real thing. However, international legal rules, such as they are, provide at least a backdrop, if not a framework, for the potential resolution of the SCS conflicts. In addition, because the Philippines recently invoked the dispute resolution powers of an UNCLOS tribunal, it is important to understand the international legal framework and how the tribunal’s decision may influence the parties.

Despite the fact that both the Philippines and the PRC have ratified the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, a settlement based on international law remains elusive due to uncertainties regarding the scope and effect of the treaty. For the present, the dangerous game in the South China Sea will continue to be played out militarily and politically.

http://aacs.ccny.cuny.edu/2014conference/Papers/William%20Lay%20and%20Chunjuan%20Wei.pdf

Anyone who might believe the UN would do any better needs to turn on the other bedside lamp light and read that report over there. No one likes the fact or the reality, however, the CCP Dictators in Beijing are leading in this and they are leading with their jaw not with any brains they might have. Might.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Publicus

[wwest5829]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You are saying that China has the right to claim 80-90% of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. Invalid unilateral claim according to international law. The U.S. and other nations recognize China's territorial coastal waters, the same as other nations.

Edited November 14, 2015 by wwest5829

[eggers]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You are saying that China has the right to claim 80-90% of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. Invalid unilateral claim according to international law. The U.S. and other nations recognize China's territorial coastal waters, the same as other nations.

Not at all, simply saying let the matter be settled via UN or International Court, not through "sabre rattling " by US or China; solves nothing! There are more pressing matters, ISIS, to be dealt with, so energies should be focused to eliminate that threat to peace around the world.

[Publicus]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You are saying that China has the right to claim 80-90% of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. Invalid unilateral claim according to international law. The U.S. and other nations recognize China's territorial coastal waters, the same as other nations.

Not at all, simply saying let the matter be settled via UN or International Court, not through "sabre rattling " by US or China; solves nothing! There are more pressing matters, ISIS, to be dealt with, so energies should be focused to eliminate that threat to peace around the world.

So then let's keep it simple for the obvious reasons plse thx.

Beijing won't accept Hague court's ruling on arbitration

http://www.straitsti...-on-arbitration

Stated even more simply and directly, the CCP Dictators in Beijing won't accept anything by anybody anywhere anytime for any reason that is contrary to their arbitrarily imposed demands. Even a teensy-weensy bit of a variation of their absolute demands, period. Loud and absolute demands.

Some Beijing fanboyz keep trying to deflect the point and try to get people's attention to other parts of the world, such as the ME where Beijing has naval forces joined with Putin's Russian air forces in Syria. Blue smoke and mirrors going on here in post after post.

All of which goes back to why the United States has a Naval fleet in the Pacific-Indian Ocean strategic region of the world.

[Credo]

I believe the generally acknowledged country that has the rights to that atoll is the Philippines. I would guess that permission to fly in the area was given by the Philippines. I don't think they have lodged any complaints.

[Toadman]

B52 Bombers? ROFL

+1 for China for not making a statement and instead letting the Western press make it for them.

I'll bet the Chinese were watching on surveillance and waging bets on which one would pop rivets before it ran out of diesel and had to return. It's like shooting apples in a barrel. Lethargic!

B52 Bombers... Oh man, that is funny!

This is satire, yes?

[Publicus]

And why did they not fly over the islands ?

They are difficult to replace these days, since the last production run was in 1963. Maybe they should have buzzed them at 100 feet with some B-2, given how much the taxpayers paid for them.

I had a Canadian lad ask me the other day why the US thought it had to be the world's policeman.

because it is, and someone has to do it, and back up what they do

And it is getting old.

Don't watch the bully in the playground pushing around the other kids...

...instead keep an eye on the one sitting at the perimeter, watching the bully, with a disgusted look on his face.

And no... someone does not have to "do it".

US Military World Police, at the behest of their incompetent commanders, are wearing out their welcome very very swiftly.

The statistics of morale and personal testimony from these brave men and women, and some cowards and buffoons and infirm, are testimony of this.

That flag is getting pretty dirty.

I am a US Citizen, and I have the Constitutional right to say this, if nothing else.

One does have that right in the United States and it is something of a limited privilege in only some places outside of the USA. However after reading the actual post "nothing else" would be preferred and welcomed But don't let that stop you in these parts.

The rants about immigrants in the US and other pet rightwing projects should moreover be saved for proper threads at other timely times. The posts would anyway go better if one could stay focused. The knowledge of the B-52 bomber expressed in the posts is utterly lacking and only calls attention to the self. The major point about the B-52 is that the person under one is a definite goner.

The Dictators in Beijing are hamstrung on this so they are hopping mad. They in fact cinch the case against themselves when they say the B-52 and USS Lassen events occurred in CCP waters and in CCP airspace But then again nobody ever accused the klutzes in Beijing of being anything but exactly that, klutzes.

If the CCP's lawyers went to the Hague to argue their nonsense they'd look like L1 novices. One reason the CCP lawyers don't interact in international law is because they don't know what it is. To them there is only CCP party law which just doesn't hack it outside of the big small time place that the CCP China is.

[NeverSure]

To Publicus,, You may think that the Chinese are a bunch of "klutzes and they speak baloney"). All that does is denote your racial heritage. It does not answer my question, will fly overs and a few sail byes stop the Chinese from turning these atolls into huge military bases. The Chinese do not think about today, they think about decades into the future. And my question still remains, will the US go to war over these islands? Will the US try to impose sanctions on China, when China owns all of the bonds for US debt? The Chinese have already won this set piece in the big chess board of international supremacy, a few fly byes by an aircraft that is obsolete will make no difference. Too little too late.

The Chinese don't "own all of the bonds for US debt." They own a very small percentage of it and they just sold one half of that to raise desperately needed cash.

The Chinese can't sell much more of the bonds because those bonds are how they own $USD to engage in international trade. If they didn't have those $USD bonds they would be out of the import/export biz. The $USD is the international unit of trade.

Cheers.

[NeverSure]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You are saying that China has the right to claim 80-90% of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. Invalid unilateral claim according to international law. The U.S. and other nations recognize China's territorial coastal waters, the same as other nations.

Not at all, simply saying let the matter be settled via UN or International Court, not through "sabre rattling " by US or China; solves nothing! There are more pressing matters, ISIS, to be dealt with, so energies should be focused to eliminate that threat to peace around the world.

I have an idea for you. Take both China and it's territorial claims and ISIS to the UN and straighten them out. Problem solved.

(Where do people get the idea that the UN has any power at all?)

[NeverSure]

When I was about 5 years old the US developed the B-52. We had occasion to drive past Boeing Field on old Hwy 99 which was before the interstate 5 freeway was built. Boeing had those planes backed up to the fence and the tails (vertical stabilizers) were so tall we stopped and got out to walk over and look at them. I remember it vividly. Those planes were massive. This was in about 1952.

Now, all of those years later the Chinese are hard at work trying to copy that B-52. Here is their effort so far.

[Publicus]

Publicus, please mate get real. Even as we speak, the Chinese are still building an outer defence fortress. Did a navy ship or some blind bomb obsolete bomber change what is happening? When these atolls are up to full capacity, do you think anyone would attempt this stunt again? And I remember when the US constantly tested the international waters of Vietnam. After 55,000 dead and hundreds of thousands suffering post war trauma and a humiliating withdrawal, the US now challenges China with a fly by and one navy ship. I guess you think China is Quaking. (not)

Thus far the CCP Boyz have been silent concerning their previous threats of a year ago to establish an Air Defense Identification Zone inside the 9-dash line of the SCS, which of course includes these artificial islands and dozens of other islands, both natural and artificial. The US has warned against doing it and Asean has expressed its great concern, as an ADIZ typically requires all aircraft to ID itself and purpose to include civilian commercial craft and to request and obtain permission to fly through it..

The Boyz haven't fared at all too well since their 2013 surprise announcement of an ADIZ over islands in the East Sea held by Japan. The Boyz silence on this ADIZ thingy concerning the SCS may have something to do with their existing non-existent East Sea ADIZ.

Immediately after the CCP surprise announcement of an ADIZ over the Senkaku Islands of Japan the US freely flew two B-52s through it (unarmed) This was also immediately after a series of threats by the CCP Dictators of great and severe military consequences against anyone who dared to defy the Boyz on their spanking new ADIZ baby. Nothing happened however when the US flew the two B-52s through the Zone as a direct act of defiance and to negate the CCP's ADIZ.

The CCP zone in the East Sea against Japan has since become aerial Swiss cheese as it is flown through unannounced and regularly by fighter jets from USA, Japan, South Korea, sometimes together, sometimes separately, to the silence and inaction of the fearless and mighty CCP warrior wimps of Beijing.

So be sure to let us know if and when the CCP Boyz try the same stupid stunt in the SCS so we can watch that one also be completely ignored by the US and its allies and turned into another slice of Swiss cheese by regular US fly-throughs, unannounced and certainly without seeking any permissions of the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

Fact is the CCP Dictators are loud klutzes who are all talk and all vacuum. They are furious and hopping mad at events in the SCS as they are presently developing and which the Dictators know will continue to develop. The Boyz also know that B-2 Stealth bombers will soon be arriving to their new station in Australia.

The CCP Dictators are still not a regional power nor will they become one. They are in fact looking less like a national power each passing month.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Publicus

[eggers]

Wonder what US reaction would be if Chinese Navy & Airforce flew similar distances from/in US territorial waters?

Thumper Trumper would be manning the beaches!!

Think US would be more useful in seeking UN 0r International Court intervention to quickly resolve the issue with all the claimant nations, rather than using provocative actions that may cause more damage than good!

You are saying that China has the right to claim 80-90% of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. Invalid unilateral claim according to international law. The U.S. and other nations recognize China's territorial coastal waters, the same as other nations.

Not at all, simply saying let the matter be settled via UN or International Court, not through "sabre rattling " by US or China; solves nothing! There are more pressing matters, ISIS, to be dealt with, so energies should be focused to eliminate that threat to peace around the world.

I have an idea for you. Take both China and it's territorial claims and ISIS to the UN and straighten them out. Problem solved.

(Where do people get the idea that the UN has any power at all?)

Well, Unsure, what do you really think should happen, putting aside your sarcastic comment ? The world is tittering on the brink, whilst US is taunting China, the ISIS problem is increasing & will continue to do so in EU, due to it's farcical "open border" policy. Posted similar comment elsewhere & was criticised, well, the proof is now evident. Amongst million + migrants into EU, there are terrorists who've been given an open door!

Unfortunately, we don't have many strong leaders in World today, mostly politicians: whether you like it or not, both Putin & Xi Jingping show leadership. Putin's having a crack at ISIS & will increase the tempo + hopefully, there should be a concerted effort by EU countries & US to annihilate these groups. In essence what been saying is.... US needs to focus on the terrorism issue & stop tinkering with other lesser issues, that should be resolved by UN. That's it's charter, but it's weak due to soft leadership, political agendas & lack of power. Al in all, the world at moment is a basket case, so sit the sideline in a pleasant country & make most of life. Cheers!!

[craigt3365]

Xi Jingping showing leadership? Where in the world is China helping to solve problems? Putin attacking ISIS? It's widely reported he's not focusing on the, but the rebels fighting Assad. And creating a base of operations in the Middle East.

The US isn't taunting China. It's doing what it's always done. Making sure the world is open to all, not just bullies.

The UN is weak. One reason is Russia and China. Syria would have not been an issue now if they would have voted to stop shipping arms to them years ago when it was brought up in the UN. But too much money was involved.

And yes, the US has been weak on terrorism. Perhaps due to the criticism they've gotten for previous actions?

[sgtsabai]

The US has been wasting it's life blood in the mid-east, and yes, if it were not for the US setting the mid-east on fire there would be no isis. The US dropped the ball when it comes to SE Asia and the threat from China. They are picking it up again at the request of SE Asian nations. China is the world's enemy. They plan by hook or crook to rule SE Asia and probably the world. The US is doing now what it should have done years ago. Demonstrating to the Chinese that the "China" Seas or not China's and that they will not interfere with safe passage. Some of you should spend some time with folks that know about the Chinese and dealing with them. I just did, over in Lao. Maybe talk to a few Lao people, no not the government the people, about how they feel about the Chinese running their country. It's not pretty. If their construction work on the illegal artificial islands is anything like what they've done in Lao, it will fall apart quickly anyway. Will there be all out war, I doubt it, but there will be battles and if China thinks those islands are a barrier, perhaps they should think about Maginot Line and how well that worked out.

[Publicus]

Not at all, simply saying let the matter be settled via UN or International Court, not through "sabre rattling " by US or China; solves nothing! There are more pressing matters, ISIS, to be dealt with, so energies should be focused to eliminate that threat to peace around the world.

I have an idea for you. Take both China and it's territorial claims and ISIS to the UN and straighten them out. Problem solved.

(Where do people get the idea that the UN has any power at all?)

Well, Unsure, what do you really think should happen, putting aside your sarcastic comment ? The world is tittering on the brink, whilst US is taunting China, the ISIS problem is increasing & will continue to do so in EU, due to it's farcical "open border" policy. Posted similar comment elsewhere & was criticised, well, the proof is now evident. Amongst million + migrants into EU, there are terrorists who've been given an open door!

Unfortunately, we don't have many strong leaders in World today, mostly politicians: whether you like it or not, both Putin & Xi Jingping show leadership. Putin's having a crack at ISIS & will increase the tempo + hopefully, there should be a concerted effort by EU countries & US to annihilate these groups. In essence what been saying is.... US needs to focus on the terrorism issue & stop tinkering with other lesser issues, that should be resolved by UN. That's it's charter, but it's weak due to soft leadership, political agendas & lack of power. Al in all, the world at moment is a basket case, so sit the sideline in a pleasant country & make most of life. Cheers!!

the ISIS problem is increasing & will continue to do so in EU,

ISIL has no presence in the South China Sea nor is ISIL known to have any presence or affect in Asean or in the Asia-Pacific region. (Australia is not a member of Asean nor does any few things ISIL may be doing in Australia affect anything in the SCS disputes or current developments in these respects.) So drop ISIL as a topic to the thread. ISIL is neither relevant nor material to the thread or its topic. Trying to insert ISIL in to the SCS discussion is a distraction only, whether doing so is persistently intended or otherwise motivated.

US is taunting China

This poster is among other things taunting others here about the CCP Dictators in Beijing. The United States is calmly and systematically executing its policy of containing the revanchism and irredentism of the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

CCP know that before they could become a global power they must first become a regional power. The Boyz are failing at trying to become a regional power as they must always fail in this respect. There is too much strong opposition in the region by democratic countries to the CCP Boyz revanchism and irredentism. From Japan to Indonesia to Singapore and Malaysia to include Vietnam, Taiwan, Australia and on to India, the totality of the region are constantly at work to deny the CCP Dictators their ambitions to dominate them, individually or collectively. Twenty-first century China can never become a regional power. (It thus is consigned to never be a global power.)

The global superpower stuff, in economics, culture, militarily etc extends from the inside out, not from the outside in. In other words, Beijing cannot dominate the world then dominate the region. To dominate the world, China must first dominate its region. This is cannot do...cannot ever do. The CCP Dictators are finding this out for real and they're getting the reality of it put to them presently. Whether the the CCP klutzes can react with a measure of practicality, if not wisely, remains to be determined.

Indeed, the least difficult and strongest foreign policy card the US has in its hand is in the Pacific-East Asia-Indian Ocean region of the world. This includes of course the South China Sea.

US needs to focus on the terrorism issue & stop tinkering with other lesser issues, that should be resolved by UN.

It would be wise to stop this howling at the moon we keep hearing from you out there in the hills, valleys and deep in the forests.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Publicus

[sgtsabai]

Let me add that the B-52's did not even fly within less than 15 miles. Should have given 'em a fly by with bomb bay doors open and F-18's escorting. And don't ever think Buff's can't go low and slow, I've seen them. If China is stupid enough to scramble and lock on, there will be hell to play because you can bet your bottom dollar that a loaded fighter is just a short distance standing off. Interesting article from an expert for those that want to learn: http://www.andrewerickson.com/ http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/AndrewErickson/~3/MZ1YSRdkkpg/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email . And apologies for the "or" instead of are, I've got spell checker back but nothing to help my grammar, especially after a night of Beer Lao.